apne

Sikh tyranny! :lol:

Brahmins don't know that there is a universe out there. They are found only on this earth. The hindu theology has only three spheres, akaash, pataal and dharti. And they grew out of brahma's forehead, maybe they were clones created by aliens thousands of years ago or test tube babies. Sikhs are on a higher plane than others, spiritually that is.

I read this a long time ago. thought should share it. There was once a bhai from a rural village who was illiterate and could not write, read or even hold a pen. He was around 40 yrs old and had worked all his life in fields. One day he decided that he needed to learn to recite gurbani. He went to 'poanta sahib' and met the head granthi . He requested him to give him discourse in gurmukhi and teach him gurbani. Head granthi gave him a room to stay and told him to coming the following morning. The next morning, when he went to head granthi to learn gurbani ,bhai was told by Head Granthi to do seva in 'langar'. He did seva all day and retired to his room at night. The following day when he went to see head granthi, who was busy doing viakhya of gurbani, he was told to do seva at parikarma. Bhai cleaned parikarma and retired at his room at night. The next day, he was told by head granthi to do seva where shoes of sangat are kept. Bhai cleaned the shoes of sangat all day. Everday he went to head granthi, he got the answer that he would be taught gurbani but first he should do some seva. This went on for six months. Eventually the bahi thought that the head granthi was fooling him and using him to do work at gurdwara sahib for free. He went to head granthi, to tell him that he was leaving and to hand over the room keys to him. The head granthi had just started the discourse with other sangat present. The head granthi told the bhai to take bath and come to hazzori of Guru Granth Sahib. After the bhai arrived, head granthi said that we are going to recite Japji Sahib. I will recite the first line and you will recite the second and so on. Bhai was confused, he requested the head granthi that he did not know any gurbani and how could he recite , not even from a gutks as he was illiterate. He told the head granthi that he had come to learn from him and how will he recite when the head granthi did not teach him anything. The head granthi said to bhai, "close your eyes and remeber Guru Nanak and start repeating after me". To the astonishment of bhai, he could and did very well recite japji sahib with sangat without reading, which he had never done in his life. He was even able to understand the meaning of gurbani. The head granthi said that 'seva bhavana' is foremost in Sikhi. By doing seva of guruji a Sikh automatically reaches higher avastha and guru sahib bless him. Gurbani comes not by education, money or determination (hath) but by seva and purity. Guru Gobind singhji said "sachu kahoon, sun leh sabho; jin prem kiyo, tin hi prabh payeo" Waheguruji ka Khalsa Waheguruji ki Fateh!

Guru Nanak Dev ji had said that Vahiguru has created many earths and life on them. Recent scientific researches show the probabilities of existence life in outer universe, other than earth. Guru ji, while he was in Mecca had taken a maulvi's son on a planet in universe to prove that men existed beyond earth. The boy who accompanied him even brought 'prasad' given to the boy by 'those' people. I was wondering if there are Sikhs in outer world, who might be highly advanced in terms of technology than us, and if know about their 'brothers' on this earth. I pray to Vahiguruji to make them aware of 'us' so that they may help us in solving our problems. Vahiguruji ka khalsa Vahigurji ki Fateh!

I don't want to start a thread on 'brahmins'. I am not suffering from any 'brahmin tyranny' . I keep the brahmins under my shoe. The Hindus i know lick my feet and it is me who is cruel to them, i criticize hindus and their 'bapu' gandhi like heel in front of them and they cannot but agree with me (they have no other option). What about the muslims who were killed during partition. Property belonging to 'Wakf Board' amounting to billions of rupees have been taken over illegaly and forcibly by radical Hindus in many parts of India. (is western intellectual framework behind this). Muslims cannot breathe openly in Gujrat (is western propaganda behind this). Muslims are targeted in U.P ( was western powers behind destruction of Babri Masjid [ a tenth century act by those who cry over Aurangzeb] Hypocrates) You had stated somewhere that you are christian, why don't you explain the tyranny christians are facing in India instead of rabbling about conspiracy theories that have no weight. The partition happened because of Gandhi. He was a clever politician. He offered Jinnah the post of PM but did not offer safeguards. Jinnah could have been toppled in two days, like many PMs have been toppled in a vote of Majority (read modern Indian Parlimentary history). When Jinnah addressed Gandhi as Mr. Gandhi & not as Mahatma during Nagpur congress session, the Hindu congress workers booed him and Gandhi did not made even a single effort to stop them. Jinnah left in disgust. Gandhi told him, we will do this for you , we will do that for muslims etc. but gave no concrete safeguards. Jinnah was smart and left for good, both congress and India. Gandhi played similar tactics with Sikhs (We will give you this, we will do that for Sikhs). Unfortunately, Sikhs had no real 'political leader' at that time. Master Tara Singh was a religious person and very very naive. He was fooled by Gandhi and Nehru and joined India. Sikhs never got anything, this or that, they instead faced the worst and payed a heavy price. Whatever Punjab had, resources, water, grains was forcibly taken by Delhi and the ghost of Khalistan (invented by Indira Gandgi to defame Sikh movement for freedom) was heaped upon them. The rest, as they say, is history.

Did Gandhi and Nehru apologise for the loss of 5 million lives during partition, except whining about how sad it was and how painful it was for them etc.. Was Swami Vivekananda being a visionary when he criticised Guru Nanak Dev. Has the BJP apologised for the religious persecution and murders of Christians in Orissa, a state ruled by BJP. Has the general hindu community apologised for Anti-Sikh riots of 84, except saying how sad it was , how painful etc.. Did Rajiv Gandhi apologise when he said "when a big tree falls..." . Why don't you try to expose the real face of 'Indian Intellectual framework' (where you belong) instead of West (which you can't do anything about).

I am sorry but i have not properly understood your question.

Does anyone understand what this racist fellow is trying to sell ?? this rubbish when data like those below is freely available Data from US 2000 census It is only an 'Individual' and his views. And not of the entire 'Western Intellectual framework'. What is his designation, association by the way? There are many such examples like that in India too.

We don't need a brahmin thread, disscuss any 'evil' and the disscussion is bound to get on to 'brahmins'. Brahmin and evil are related like flesh and blood. All evil goes back to 'Brahmin'. The roots of the 'tree evil' trace to 'Brahmin'. So, you cannot exclude the mother [brahmin] who gave birth to child [evil]. Any discussion on child [evil] must make mention of it's mother [brahmin]. Why is it that all 'problems' and anti-human phenomenos can be traced back to the 'brahmin'.

How Was Amrit Sanchar Conducted Between 1699-1708 ? Does it matter? Should anybody care? NO! After 1708, the bloodiest period of Sikh history was to start. After Guru Gobind singh ji , Nawab Kapur Singh and Bhai Mani Singh played an important role in conducting amrit sanchar . After their deaths there was no real sikh leadership to fill the gap. The period after Baba Banda Bahadur was the darkest in Sikh History. The Sikhs after Banda Bahadur were fighting for existence. Sikhs were looking at ways to sustain the religion of Guru Nanak Guru Gobind Singh and to survive at all costs. There were awards and prices on their heads. They were hunted like people hunt wild beasts in jungles. A sikh could not appear in public, then how could he conduct amrit sanchar. Sikhs were killed on sight. Numerically they numbered very few. There was only one thing on the mind of Sikhs , Survive , Survive at all costs. They did not have time to write any history, no preservation of any historical records was possible. Where would they store these records, on horsebacks? The wars started in 1702 and continued till 1708. When the mughal and hill tribesmen had occupied Anandpur after long seige, they razed everything to the level of ground, burning, looting everything in site. When 'our own army' did not spare anything in 1984, what the 'enemy army' would have done in 1706 can be easily imagined. Sikhs were fighting for survival after that and not for writing history. The reason i said all this is beacuse people want to know and judge facts based on records of this period. Guru Gobind Singh administered 'Khande di pahul' on 1699. All the Sikhs who took amrit from 'Singhs' took it this way. I don't know and don't care how the Udasis, nirmalas, ram rayees, dhir maliye took pahul. Does it matter. Even if people administred amrit in wrong way, it does not take away the fact how Guru Gobind Singh did it. We should follow how Guru Gobind singh did and not how 'apostates' seem to think. There are a variety of historical records to show that Guru Gobind singh administered 'Khande di pahul' in 1699.

India as a 'name' or 'homogeneous sphere' was devised and first used by people living in European continent. How do you define 'west' and 'east' precisly? for geographic terminals and for referring to astronomical terminology. 'Earth' is not divided into 'east' or 'west', only lands of people inhabitating it are. Man started from one source, there is enough scientific DNA research to prove that all man on earth is from one branch of family. However, hinduism is different on this regard. It clearly divides people into four species and confirms gender in-equality and social in-equality as law and will of Nature. According to hinduism, if it is not a hotch-potch of various beliefs, man is not from same branch of family but one class of man is as different from another class of man in original paternity, as is man from a monkey. It becomes more evident when you read Ramayana, where there were two species of man, one proper man and other half ape. In hinduism even God has different forms which are very much different from the other forms, so much so even the supreme being is not free from divisions with no unity, Gods in hinduism are often at loggerheads (more than often over women). Brahmins, who are proper Hindus and reign supreme in religious and moral discourse of hindu philosophy, have been feeding to other people (originally to kashtriya, sudra, vaishya and more recently to buddhists, sikhs, jains, christians , muslims. etc.) that 'Man' by laws of nature and by the Hindu way of origin of Man, is un-equal and different from one another. Nature while giving birth to man on earth has pre-determined his role on Earth. Some are made by nature to be superior and another to be inferior, one is nearer to god and another is away, one is intelligent (Brahmin) and another is dull (sudra). It is ironical how people blame the British for inventing the 'martial race' theory (another way of dividing india, they would argue) but forget that this was invented and followed for hundereds of years in India by Hindu society in the form of 'Kashtriya' class of people. Now a set of people belonging to this system of thought want to create fear in people by inventing conspiracy theories, by blaming what they term 'another different class' of people on earth , by claiming that different traditions (buddhism, Sikhism) which sought to diffuse 'plurality of race' concept were trying to divide 'India' (did it ever exist before 1947). It makes me want to spit on people belonging to this thought process who want to lay the blame of the past 5000 years of social in-equalities, divisive politics, social exlpoitation, denial of freedom of thought and action, right to life, euality in social system on a 100 years of british rule or 200 years of mughal rule. SICK :v1:

do you mind telling us apne where did sri guru gobind singh ji said that? please bring fwd ang number and scripture. Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj had a dialogue with Mahant Jait of Daduwara; the Mahant quoted two lines of Dadu to guruji "Dadu, surrender thy claim to every wordly thing; pass thy days without claims. How many have departed after trading in this grocer's shop!". Guru ji said these lines were applicable for invention of a religion, but ill-suited for it's preservation. Rather the lines should be:- "Asserting thy claim in the world plunder the wicked. Extirpate him who doeth the evil". The Mahant quoted two other lines to guruji - 'Dadu, taking the times as they come, be satisfied with this Kal age. If anyone throw a clod or brick at thee, lift it on thy head'. Guruji altered the last line thus :- 'If anyone throw a clod or a brick at thee, angrily strike him with a stone'.

Similar sort of UFO was reportedly seen in Punjab a few days back. The news channels tried to present an impending Alien invasion , first in london then in punjab. Later on it was found to be a hoax. What is the status of london ufo?

Maybe you yourself have turned to cribbing, bitching, fighting, they were mostly loveless, uncaring etc. and become like them. As they say, an apple for an apple.

Amar_jkp is right to some extent. Hindus like Sikhism but not Sikhs. They see Sikhism as a reformist movement of hinduism and gurus as hindu prophets. That is why majority of Hindus deep down do not much like Guru Gobind Singh, who formed Khalsa and completly broke off from Hinduism. As for 84 riots only some hindus came out in open support of sikhs. Majority felt that sikhs needed to be taught a lesson and gave silent support to rioters. A prominent congress leader from delhi won by a margin of 5 lakh votes. He had killed largest number of sikhs in his constituency. Tavleen singh, a female reporter and a sikh, said that the verdict in elections given by hindu majority showed that they felt that the riots were right. The people who forget the injuries done to them do not deserve to survive. Guru Gobind singh had said that if someone throws a brick at you, then hit him back hard with a stone. If i had some kind of divine power, i would pack all sikh wimpies in a shuttle and send them to mars.

Ram is said to have been born around 5000 BC. However no historical proof of Ram exists. He was probably a great king who was elevated to the status of God or avtaar of Vishnu, another great religious myth. What is the exact meaning of Varna Ashram Dharma. Is 'varna' not social caste?

There is no Sikh leader right now in punjab. All that exists is Sikh political leaders. There is no Sikh religious party in Punjab. All Akali Dal are political parties who use religion for grabbing power. SS Mann has lost the game. His future is bleak. He sided with Amarinder singh during 2002-2007 to topple Badal. He would go to so called religious functions organised by SGPC and speak against Badal and not about religion. He created mayhem, with Amarinder govt support, in so called religious functions of SGPC and made fool of himself. Mann's former aide Bittu is worse. He is now on the payroll of Sukhbir Badal, to humiliate SS Mann. Bittu has no standing in politics of Punjab. People like him are used by various parties and govt. to make issues for generating an opinion in public. If he decides to fight an election, he would not get more than 3 votes. Mr. Sarna of delhi too is Amarinder Singh's aide. It was Sarna, Amarinder singh and some other leaders who created DERA SACHA SAUDA controversy. The 'Poshak' [robe] worn by Ram Rahim, resembling Guru gobind Singh ji, was brought by Paramjit Singh Sarna from Delhi. Later he was foremost in opposing Ram Rahim. This shows how low our politics have sunk and how degenerated our leaders are. And it is these people who head our religious organisations. Badal is no better. He modified Akali Dal from a religious party into a political party. He shamelessly uses gurdwara funds for fighting elections. His party is now facing possible extinction in his home area. Sikhi these days comes cheap. All you need is a flowing beard, a foot long Kirpan and control of some Gurdwara. Make an inflammatory speech and lo! you become a true Sikh. Compare this to the situation in eighteenth century when a Sikh had to fight with his hand on his head or get his scalp removed instead of his hair or get his body cut limb by limb inorder to be called a true Sikh of Guru. What a fall!

Maybe charan pahul was carried on by people hostile to Guruji. meene masandiye, ram rayees or dhir malliye etc.

If the two birs were present in 1697 & 98 why the three banis of present day DG were recited orally and not from the birs. I mean why only sggs was prakash[ed] and not one of two historical original birs. What was the location of these birs during amrit sanchar ceremony in 1699? Also these two birs must have been with guruji during evacuation of Anandpur. Chibber mentions that writings were lost in river. Why he does not mention these two birs? Chibber says that guruji got written a granth, samundar-sagar granth, and made it to be thrown in a river. He says guruji composed some other writings and these 'sanchian' [leaves] were lost during battle of anandpur. He also calls it avtar-leela. There is no mention of dasam granth, charitropakhayn or chaubis avtaar as they are called now. Also going by chibber, why would guruji himself throw his samundar-sagar granth into river? is this how gurbani is treated, even if by guruji maharaj.

Is this a historical fact? I mean can the historicity of these birs be proved or is it a tradition handed down.

did two birs of DG existed as granth during guruji's time? Yes.They have some hand written pages of Guru Gobind singh ji in both of them.These are called khas patras.There is signature of Guru sahib also. So DG existed as a granth during guruji's time and before he passed on gaddi to sggs?

did two birs of DG existed as granth during guruji's time?

There were written banis available in form of 'pothis'. There is a shabd by guruji "piyo dade da khol dhhita khazana..." which he uttered before compiling guru granth sahib ji. After completion guruji called it 'pothi parmeshwar ka than' (the pothi is abode of god).

The last one, magaz in punjabi, is a hot selling item in punjab too. But in punjab only goat magaz (brain) is used. i ve heard it is quite tasty, not everyone can prepare it.

Raju whether you want to be associated with strong or weak, does it matter? are you george bush? you smell of Gandhi, the donna carren of pan-hinduism and forerunner of the radical hindu.You should stop relying on media, especially NDTV, IBN , etc. . They don't give a damn about truth but cater to hindu masses. Have you seen the superstitious programmes being telecast on them in the name of religion. They are a very biased people. The guy who was roughed up said inflammatory and degrading things about Sikhi. These type of people don't understand the sweet tounge but only a hard stick in their <admin-profanity filter activated>. If you have freedom of speech it does not mean you can say bad things about people in the name of reason. Raju, personally i would like to kiss your sister in front of you and then see how you reason it out with me. For Sikhs, Sikhi=Guru=Mother, father, sister, flesh and blood. OK.