alias

guru gobind singh ji said that without kesh, all the other four kak are useless. so why wear it if one is ignorent to its meaning or to what it represents or stands for? however,i am not saying that mone cant wear it.. but in this dy and age,for monae it just shows their 'heritage' now. just like singh and kaur has been degraded to show what relegion you are... suppose its a way for the monae ppl to stay niyaara!!! sikhi starts with the kesh and finishes with the kirpaan.. this is how it is. dasmesh pita has given this as a sri mukhbaak. khalsa ji fateh!

i personally think that this^^ is debatable...

i personally believe that naam simran shouldnt be a chore and shouldnt matter how long you doit as its quality that matters.. i think that if simran is done like this it may become a chore. isnt that what a jod feels like somtimes!!! huf and puf half way through the day!! saying ohh! ok whats next!! but i wish i could sit for even 2 hours... let alone 7!!!!

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.. veerji, a thought has come to my mind and i feel i must put foward a benti to u.. u had said that you are not khalsa. santa de bachan are to look to guru granth sahib bofore dasam granth.. i am aware that i do not no whether you look to the guru granth alot or not... but many a time i have come accross sangat that are not khalse and they read the dasam granth but hardly the guru granth.. a keemat piece of information i feel i must tell you which was told to me by an udhaasi, is that guru granth is for kaar (the world which is why we should look to this first) and dasam granth is for akaar (god. which shows the depth of the dasam granth.) the way i saw it wen i was told this was how can we be worthey or even understand the escence of the dasam granth if it was ment for god? (akaar) so this is the thing.. guru granth is our first point of referance in how to see things and from what perspective. and how to live in rehet and follow dharam.. you can find everything in guru granth..theres not a thing that iv come accross in dasam granth that can not be gotten fron guru granth...if you search for it with your heart, you will find it in guru granth... so this is a humble request.. benti from somone hu is happy sitting in the dust of saadh sangat. forgiv any badness that may have been imposed on yourself by myself writing this.. waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

yes, it may have it there... but look, if we start this, it could get to somone saying this.... ' khalsa mero roop hai khass' then this will be taken for the wrong meaning of saying that khalsa is guru gobind sinigh ji, whereas, the escence of dsmesh pita is in the khalsa... do u see this point veer ji?? and you have just said that u wernt saying that khalsa never claims superoirity..................>>>>>>> (i hate spelling this word!! 22 and cant spell!! gudness!!)<<<<<<<<<<......................where as u had stated that," for those of you that say amritdharis think they're superior, ur wrong they are superior". i may have got the wrong end of the stick but to me it sounded like you were saying the khalsa is superior... this would be the fall of gurkhalsa in thinkin they are better than anyone else... compassion is the 1st thing a khalsa.. we are all the same light. gurbani says, 'mun tu jot saroop hai' we are all the light of god... therefore, all are the same... making one higher than the other is like caste system.... major fallback!!

haumai mar ek liv lagi- meaning,kill this ego of i am better than you, then, only then!! will your liv, birthi, and chit and all that, only then will it join with the ONE. this is just one of the tuks bout thinkin youare suprior than others.. and this shabad below.. one of my 'faves!!!' jYqsrI mhlw 4 Gru 1 caupdy jaithasaree mehalaa 4 ghar 1 choupadhae Jaitsree, Fourth Mehl, First House, Chau-Padas: <> siqgur pRswid ] ik oankaar sathigur prasaadh | One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: myrY hIArY rqnu nwmu hir bisAw guir hwQu DirE myrY mwQw ] maerai heearai rathan naam har basiaa gur haath dhariou maerai maathaa | The Jewel of the Lord's Name abides within my heart; the Guru has placed His hand on my forehead. gurU ny myry isr au~qy Awpxw h`Q r`iKAw, qW myry ihrdy ivc prmwqmw dw rqn (vrgw kImqI) nwm Aw v`isAw [ jnm jnm ky iklibK duK auqry guir nwmu dIE irnu lwQw ]1] janam janam kae kilabikh dhukh outharae gur naam dheeou rin laathaa |1| The sins and pains of countless incarnations have been cast out. The Guru has blessed me with the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and my debt has been paid off. ||1|| gurU ny prmwqmw dw nwm id`qw, aus dy AnykW jnmW dy pwp du`K dUr ho gey, (aus dy isroN pwpW dw) krzw auqr igAw [1[ myry mn Bju rwm nwmu siB ArQw ] maerae man bhaj raam naam sabh arathaa | O my mind, vibrate the Lord's Name, and all your affairs shall be resolved. hy myry mn! (sdw) prmwqmw dw nwm ismirAw kr, (prmwqmw) swry pdwrQ (dyx vwlw hY) [ guir pUrY hir nwmu idRVwieAw ibnu nwvY jIvnu ibrQw ] rhwau ] gur poorai har naam dhrirraaeiaa bin naavai jeevan birathaa | rehaao | The Perfect Guru has implanted the Lord's Name within me; without the Name, life is useless. ||Pause|| pUry gurU ny (hI) prmwqmw dw nwm (ihrdy ivc) p`kw kIqw hY [ qy, nwm qoN ibnw mnu`Kw izMdgI ivArQ clI jWdI hY [rhwau[ ibnu gur mUV Bey hY mnmuK qy moh mwieAw inq PwQw ] bin gur moorr bheae hai manamukh thae moh maaeiaa nith faathaa | Without the Guru, the self-willed manmukhs are foolish and ignorant; they are forever entangled in emotional attachment to Maya. hy BweI! jyhVy mnu`K Awpxy mn dy ip`Cy qurdy hn auh gurU (dI srn) qoN ibnw mUrK hoey rihMdy hn, auh sdw mwieAw dy moh ivc Psy rihMdy hn [ iqn swDU crx n syvy kbhU iqn sBu jnmu AkwQw ]2] thin saadhoo charan n saevae kabehoo thin sabh janam akaathaa |2| They never serve the feet of the Holy; their lives are totally useless. ||2|| [ auhnW ny kdy BI gurU dw Awsrw nhIN ilAw, auhnW dw swrw jIvn ivArQ clw jWdw hY [2[ ijn swDU crx swD pg syvy iqn sPilE jnmu snwQw ] jin saadhoo charan saadh pag saevae thin safaliou janam sanaathaa | Those who serve at the feet of the Holy, the feet of the Holy, their lives are made fruitful, and they belong to the Lord. hy BweI! jyhVy mnu`K gurU dy crnW dI Et lYNdy hn, auh Ksm vwly bx jWdy hn, auhnW dI izMdgI kwmXwb ho jWdI hY [ mo kau kIjY dwsu dws dwsn ko hir dieAw Dwir jgMnwQw ]3] mo ko keejai dhaas dhaas dhaasan ko har dhaeiaa dhaar jagannaathaa |3| Make me the slave of the slave of the slaves of the Lord; bless me with Your Mercy, O Lord of the Universe. ||3|| hy hrI! hy jgq dy nwQ! myry au~qy myhr kr, mYnMU Awpxy dwsW dy dwsW dw dws bxw lY [3[ hm AMDuly igAwnhIn AigAwnI ikau cwlh mwrig pMQw ] ham andhulae giaaneheen agiaanee kio chaaleh maarag panthaa | I am blind, ignorant and totally without wisdom; how can I walk on the Path? hy gurU! AsI mwieAw ivc AMnHy ho rhy hW, AsIN Awqmk jIvn dI sUJ qoN s`Kxy hW, swnMU shI jIvn-jugiq dI sUJ nhIN hY, AsI qyry d`sy hoey jIvn-rwh au~qy qur nhIN skdy [ hm AMDuly kau gur AMclu dIjY jn nwnk clh imlµQw ]4]1] ham andhulae ko gur anchal dheejai jan naanak chaleh milanthaa |4|1| I am blind - O Guru, please let me grasp the hem of Your robe, so that servant Nanak may walk in harmony with You. ||4||1|| hy gurU! swnMU AMinHAW nMU Awpxw p`lw PVw, qW ik qyry p`ly l`g ky AsI qyry d`sy hoey rsqy auqy qur skIey [4[1[ p.s. i duno y its not come out in gurmukhi! hey, this just came to my mind, if somthing bad happens to somone, some say <admin-profanity filter activated>, and others say, 'oh waheguru!' shows the mind innit!!!!!! gurfateh :lol:

khalsa ji fateh! excuse me, i think i sense ego,haumi and hankaar!!! and in guru granth sahib it says gur parmeshar iko jaan... i dont no about the khalsa thing that you said... and even if what you say is true,that khalsa is the same as god and guru, (which i dout to be true), any khalsa that thinks they are superier as you are saying, is so not on the ball!!! thats totally on the other side of the fence! y doz guru maharaj say, ' nirgun neech anaad apraadhi' ??? this is what we are.. not superior. as iv said before, i am an amritdhari. havce been since iwas little, and this supriority you are talking about is against gurmat.. guru granth sahib. not one place in the guru granth sahib it says we have a gun. it says hum awgun bhare.. if these mukh-baak's by our gurus are saying this,what is this saying about us if we think we are suprior??? we ony lead a better way of life. this doesnt make the other ppl any less than the peson hu is amritdhari... any could you please post the tuk that you r thinking of. thanks! gurfateh

thank you!!now that my question is answered, another one has arizen! how come that some of the words are different?? i have a recording that ill put up here, and the dude,i feel,knows his bani,and he says it different from how you have posted it... how come? its dont by giani thakur singh ji.. (i am not undermining or trying to cause conflict!! excuse this as iv had things taken our of context from what iv said before!!) p.s.i am 22yrs singh.. in case there was a wander¬ gurfateh! Sadh_Patshahi_10___With_Uthanka.mp3

i would tooo like to no why some amrit dhari sikhs think they are superior then somone who isnt baptized... and how is this gonna help yur jeevan(spiritual path).......... dunno, but some people don;t act spiritual because they think they should take amrit first, lol..... why when Bhagat Kabir Jee had partak darshan of Vaheguroo, Vaheguroo Jee said he had to become a sikh of a Guroo (ie Bhagat Ramanand Jee) only then he would attain mukhti. i don't believe one has to only become a sikh of Guroo Nanak Dev Jee to attain mukhti but one does require a Guroo...hence the need for Amrit in Gurmat gur fateh!!!!!!!!! i myself am an amritdhari. i do understand what your saying about amritdhri(reffered to now as 'ATz'!) thinkin they are better than non-ATz. those people are 1 ful of ego (hope im not critisyzing!!!!!!!!) and 2 too much into the world to see what the guru has actually said.. when ppl take amrit, they are to lead a better life than socalled 'normal ppl' this leads them into thinkin they are better... all they are doing is leading a better life.. this doesent make the person better than anyother person. >>> in shastar naam mala is says: rach karo sarbang. meaning keep EVERYONE. doesnt say, all apart from non-ATz or all apart from mr jag or what have you!! <<<< >>>>and another thing, sarbat da bhalla. may good come on all... again not, all apart from some Mr Man hu isnt an AT.<<< now, looking at the other side of the argument, lets look at............ppl going clubz!!! do u reely think its ok in sikhi, (and not just sikhi but general moralsin relegious sects) to hear the kind of 'tunes' that are here in this day and age?? like that line that that dude says... i wanna *@$% u *@$% u,u already know i wana *@$% u... and that other tune, cyclone, she moves like a cyclone... and so on and so forth... (iv givn enuf examples!!!) this kind of thing has an effect on you... just like going to somewhere beautiful ( i.e. breath taking mountins) has a good effect,this has a bad effect.... AND (the biggy) do u thiunk U WUD BE ABLE TO TAKE A KIRPAAN INNTO A CLUB!!!!!!!! WOH!!! big mistake!!! and therei is a hole loads of other stuff, not just bout going club, that is possible for non ATz to do... ------------------ there may be (me,now just thinkin a bit...)also the thing that even though non ATz go gurudwra and stuff, they disobey our guru like they do hajaamat (kesh removal) and they are not bound by gutmut sothey may drink / try to find love/ girls (called haram by guru gobind singh ji.) all this is a posibility and things like hair removal that can be seen it shows where the individual is wrt our guruz teachings and there for our guru.. this can most definitly lead to AT ppl thinkin they are better than non ATz.. but we should see the light inside.. and if it burns bright enuf, any Amritdhari can see that they will come and become guru wale... dasam pita sayd take amrit and become guru wale.. so any ppl that are non AT, should quicker than quicker take amrit and see the effect it has in the life of that person.. taking amrit dont make u better than anybody else, or more importent, just makes u lead a better life....(ever wander y athiests swear so much and offend ppl cuza dat!) i can tell u right now, it is not hard. bottom line amridharis....seebelow.. 1. do mool/maha mantar + waheguru..this = naam. cud be only 1 mala of waheguru in the morning.... 2. 5 bania seated in one place (if you cant do it, put the tape on!!! internet!! search for gurbani ucharan then nitnem!) >>>>only takes 1.5 hours before you have to leave!!!!<<< 3. then evening, reheraas, just doit!!! slap the tape on! ( its good if u have your evening meal after the reheraas, but if not,... its not the end of humanity!!!!) then jus before we go sleep, sohila... (but, we all sometimes forget so its not the end of world!!!!!) its not hard!!ppl will try to say you have to do this and that, but no!that is for ppl hu want to take it further... and more so for the person hu is actually saying it... internet has everything....good and bad.... just like the world!!! choose!!! ppl hu force ppl to do anything, good or bad, guru ji has said it is ZAALAM!!! (or zulam wotever spelling u want..) sodo the ryt thing and standup against zulam!! but do the ryt thing first!! iv typed enuf now...... am tyrd.. fateh ji! message me if u wana!

i think i understand what your saying... people that are named jagjeet singh khalsa and stuff ryt?? its because in those days, peoples's last name got converted into singh i.e. gobind rai to gobind singh.. what is our dasmesh pitas surname?? nothing!! (or singh but my point is...) in this day and age people keep singh as their middle name and not as their last name.. (like me!). because of this, people still keep their last name. so.... this breaks what guru ji ment for us, to have a singular surname of singh.. SO!!!! to bring back this singular surname unity again, people replace their last name as "khalsa"..! (but i bet in another 100 years or so, this will turn into somthing like, ... jagjeet singh khalsa panaser... or somthing....) i myself had started a topic on this singh and kaur title a while back and the debate was disturbed by another person that got the wrong end of what the discussion was about. however, in conclusion, i found that the surnames singh and kaur is being more and more forgotten.. by this i mean used only as a heritage distinction. and the kara being used to only show where you came from and not as one of the 5 K's and such things...i am mainly talking about sikh pplz going clubs and stuff.. but thats another issue!!! i hope i can be corrected so i may kill my mun (not 'mum'!) and gain some chatturta. bhul chuk maaf gurfateh

Singh ji This is from Sarbloh Granth. dhan dhan guru khalsa! thanks!! how do u no that?? wot else do u no?? iv found that very few ppl know this little ucharan by guru ji, and even fewer ppl know of its wherebouts. this leads me to ask u what else do u no.. please share! fateh ji

Khalsa jee fateh! i am in need of some help! i have come accross a sri mukhbaak P:10 that i have been trying to locate in sri dasam granth. iv come empty handded.. ok.. all i no about this composition is that it is an 'asphorkat swayae' it is : '' ik ongkaar sri waheguru ji ki fateh, sri mukhvaak P:10 nishaani sikhi punj haraf ast kaaf, har giz na baashade azii punz muwaaf|| kara kaar do kach khanghae bidhaa, bila kesh haech ast jumale nishaan|| haraf hai kaat ast azii punz kaaf, bidha nund bavar na goyam khilaaf|| HUKA HAJAAMAT HALLO HARAM, bariishe hina karad roo siya faam|| sri dasam granth asforkat sawayae....'' here it explains the punj kakaar and the 4 bad things.. and the last bit saying no dying of hair and such things... its amazing.! id be happy to recieve email as i dont come on this site often... hsbansal1@hotmail.co.uk thank you!!. fatehji

Khalsa jee, fateh! i am in need of some help! i have come accross a sri mukhbaak P:10 that i have been trying to locate in sri dasam granth. iv come empty handded.. ok.. all i no about this composition is that it is an 'asphorkat swayae' it is : '' ik ongkaar sri waheguru ji ki fateh, sri mukhvaak P:10 nishaani sikhi punj haraf ast kaaf, har giz na baashade azii punz muwaaf|| kara kaar do kach khanghae bidhaa, bila kesh haech ast jumale nishaan|| haraf hai kaat ast azii punz kaaf, bidha nund bavar na goyam khilaaf|| HUKA HAJAAMAT HALLO HARAM, bariishe hina karad roo siya faam|| sri dasam granth asforkat sawayae....'' here it explains the punj kakaar and the 4 bad things.. and the last bit saying no dying of hair and such things... its amazing.! id be happy to recieve email as i dont come on this site often... hsbansal1@hotmail.co.uk thank you!!. fatehji

waheguru. thanks for the post gur fateh

] waheguru! i agree! well maybe they think the same about themselves? did that ever occur to us? how many times do we say to ourselves..." oh gosh i cant believe i just did that?" or " darnit* what was i thinking?" and also "Peshi" word wouldnt be in the vocab=) before we criticize or judge...just try to think for one second about these things. we need to help each other out become better human beings and it's really our concept of the other person...we think this is how one should/ be or is and this is how they are etc etc..that leads us into deep trouble( disappointments ) very hard indeed may guru sahib bless us with gurmat=) but continue ur discussion..~ akal sahai wjkk wjkf! fateh ji yea its that same thing of looking at ourselves first, then, through example, we lead / teach others..

iQru Gir bYTy pRBu Apnw pwvhu ]2] thhir ghar bait(h)ae prabh apanaa paavahu ||2|| Remain steady and stable within the home of your own self, and find God. ||2|| I think here the reference to remain steady and stable is related to the Mind. We tend to think many things as the mind has a tendency of wandering. Hence our mid sould be stable and steady. It is that I am presuming. I am giving below some tips on controlling mind. I am sharing with you as I find this useful on many occassion. Some Guide-lines in Mind-control Mind is so framed that it runs to extremes. Through Sadhana or spiritual practice, it should be brought to a balanced state. It is one-sided by its very nature. It is through mental drill or training that integral development must be achieved. Make a vigorous and earnest search within. Do not trust the mind and the Indriyas. They are your enemies. Lust and wealth are your bitter foes. These are two great evils. Mind exercises its sovereignty over man through the force of attachment, craving. It does various tricks. When you once know its ways, it lurks like a thief. It will no longer trouble you. In controlling the mind, you have to do seven things: 1. You must get rid of all desires. 2. You must control your emotions. You must control the temper so that you may feel no anger or impatience. 3. You must control the mind itself so that the thought may always be calm and unruffled. 4. You must control the nerves through the mind so that they may be as little irritable as possible. 5. You must give up Ego. Ego strengthens the mind. It is the seed of the mind. When you have become an Egoless, how can criticisms, taunts and censure affect you? 6. You must destroy all attachments ruthlessly. 7. You must give up all hopes and prejudices. The following will bring you peace of mind undoubtedly: o Avoid the company of evil persons. o Live alone. o Reduce your wants. o Do not argue. Arguing creates sense of hostility. It is a sheer waste of energy. o Do not compare yourself with others. o Do not lend your ears for public criticism. o Give up the idea of name and fame. [saodhaan ekagar cheet.......] waheguru beautiful post...

It's not for us to judge. If your sangat is inspiring you to become a better Sikh, it's good. If doing the opposite, it's bad. As for the women and dastar issue, i don't see what that has to do with this topic. (don't agree with your view though ) btw, i wudnt consider my replies as personal views.. i am most likely to state both arguments and then choose somthing that the other person wont agree with.. jus because id like to milk the discussion for all its worth, so both sides of an argument can be seen... is jus me, love debating on controversialy and on controversial things.! so please dont take anything i say as a personal thing against you or what you say... simple thing.. i jus look at both sides. then people are left with a choice to choose wich they will however they do. sggs does this, so i am no one to not try and follow gurus idology.(from whatever i understand from it!!) gurfatehji.

It's not for us to judge. If your sangat is inspiring you to become a better Sikh, it's good. If doing the opposite, it's bad. As for the women and dastar issue, i don't see what that has to do with this topic. (don't agree with your view though ) like the dastaar was manditory everywhere before, but now, its not... whats the thing that you dont agree with?

trouble is its hard to know.. a seemingly decent person, or seemingly decent people, turning out to be not a you thought... and for the sake of argument, in guru jiz time, dastaar had to be worn by women as well as men.. now it had been relaxed... one may argue that it is not about a show off atitude, but about rehet and such things. so du patta, is allowed. it can be seen that we stand out froom the rest of the sangat.. i e, in unison to dasmesh pitas teaching in rehet mariyada. so y must it be nessasery to wear a turban for women.. (aside from the ovious equality thing..)

fateh saad sangat ji, in reflection of what the khalsa was and what it is now, how has it changed?.. opinions please???.. like, some gurdwaras keep it manditory for women to tie a dastaar, and some dont... the khalsa is an identy. this identy is portrayed through mariyada and rheni and bheni.. what then of gur-khalsa wale that sayoffensive things to others/ swear/ chat up gals- but dont do anything/ all he other things that is considered not right... they do their paat/simran/sewa, but also, feed their other needs (girls,-but dont do anything) and dont let alone their bad boli, and such... as, in the amrit sunchaar, they say to do the 5 bania, and keep rehet. the majority of "gur sikhs" just do nitnem ritualisticly... everyone knows that when one is to talk kaura (bitterly) to somone, is one of the most bad things as one is breaking somthing inside another. i.e. in the same catagory as breaking somones birthi,liv,connection. people dont realise the reprocussions of their actions and they think it is just a minor thing... i, on a recent forum had this done to me!(yes, in the process of getting over it...!!...) but it still does mess the other person up a bit... uni/outside/in the park/lightly with friends/ auki boli should be stopped. wot ever happened to the fundimentals??!!!! DAYA!!!! seeing god in all! humility!! saying in casual conversation, oi u >this that<, the need is not there for somone to come out with something to effect the other person in a bad way... suppose this is y bad company should be avoided.. insides get messed up, all downhill from then on!!!! opinions pleasse! p.s. if i oppose an argument stated by a poster, it doesent mean i am for the argument that you are against! (to clear up a likely misunderstanding on another previous forum) pul chul kima!

this is a nice post..

thank you all for your opinions, opinions were appriciated as well as the opposed arguments posed.. with the exception of somones callous coment towards myself, they were a great deal of help. at the end of this debate, its recognised that singh and kaur title in the modern day, states that one is of the sikh relegion, and not of the khalsa as one must be amirtdhari, a part of somthing so big and great, as i am a part of this, to be part of the khalsa.. so singh and kaur titles have been reduced to showing people that one is from a sikh origion.. just as people call themselvs sikhs to show they are from that origion, and now, it has nothing to rehet and relegion (when it should do...) since it is being used in this loose manner.. so sarbat da bhalla and hope all remain in chardi kala with gur prasaad. waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh.

Interesting stuff - can you point me to a source dalsingh101? Just PM him if you want the source(s). -------------------------------------------------- To alias: khalsa = amritdhari - alias Khalsa is much bigger than that. waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh may god bless us all. may our ego be killed and sins washed as i feel mine are, and may we all get a place in the feet of the lord. waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh.

the thing writtern by dal singh 101 saying that (in the reaspect of the context that he said it)the khalsa are wanabies, is just durmat.. upside down thinking............ to come to the conclusion that guru jiz khalsa are rajput wanabies..??? waheguru!! i need not reply to people like that.. i would never say that khalsa are rajput wanabies.. i am not a rajput wanabie. it was dal singh 101's comment that stated that>>>> "singh has nothing to do with the khalsa" it has everything to do with it.. to say it has nothing to do with it is to under mine guru gobind singh ji.. i need not reply to the posts of dal singh 101