Karku_007

This is a good effort by the youth. However they are falling into the trap, of thinking that panthic ekta, can be achived by the youth only. What use is ekta without all the panth being involved. Ekta is about being inclusive, how can you be inclusive, if you put the names of certain organisations and leave others, how aboput the individuals that belong to no organisations are they not part of the panth. For pure ekta, the poster should have no names of organisations, but just the Sad Sangat, organised by the youth with support from all panthic jathebandia and Gurdwara sahib. This is not a ekta camp, but organised by certain groups, which is fine, as long they state this. As a side line, is this not the Gurdwara, where most of the Singh's doing sewa are also members of the Federation. If ekta, how come they are not involved. The Indian Government is trying to side-line those jathebandia that are at the fore-front of fighting for Sikh justice, are those not organising the camp, doing the job of the Indian Government indirectly. As long as the Camp promotes Sikhi and there are no hidden agenda's as above, l wish the camp is a great success.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji's, Gurpurb, is on the same day (as per the purataan calandar). I do not see any publicity about this included in the programme. I am sure that this was an oversight by the organisers and not about giving a Sant Mahupursh precendance over Guru Sahib.

I suppose more Granthi Singhs benefit. Not sure if the sangat do :umm: What is the purpose of an Akand Path: To enable the Sangat to listen to bani, if this is the case, then surley only one akand path is needed, as all the others reading bani, are doing so silently. Who benefits from many akand Paths ? Those that are reading bani, are doing so for themselves, as they are the only ones who can hear what is being read (silently). If they are truly devoted to reading bani, during an akand path and the only opportunity is by having more than one akand path (not really true, as they could do a sehaj path in their own time), they SHOULD NOT GAT PAID FOR DOING SO.

Please do not read this as an attack on baba ji. I was told by freind, that there was an article in the News of the World, a couple of years ago, in which the reporter, went undercover and asked baba ji, to help him in bringing a realtive across from India, illegally. My freind has asid that it is alleged in the paper, that baba ji said he would for a fee. Unfortunatley, my freind, does not have a copy of the paper. Does anybody have a copy of this article in the News of the World. So that this can be clarified.

Yes they are in the UK as they did kirtan in Gurdwara Karamsar, Ilford last night. They said they were still here for 5 more weeks. No idea where else they are going to be doing kirtan. As they say that they are amongst those that leading the campaign against, the Saucha Suda Dera;, should they not focus there energy and time in India, rather than come on a tour of the UK. Sant Baba Ranjit, cancelled their tour. This is not to say that i do not recognise, the tremondous amount of panthic work that Baba Baljit Singh, has been undertaking. If he is here for a 'break' that is fine, i.e. to re-charge himself, however if he is here to collect money, l disagree with that. Was Baba

If you are serious about this, then you need to change tactics. From what l heard, the last main revolution in terms of Gurdwaras, was after 1984, if this had not happened, then the Gurdwaras would be worse off know. That was achieved through the momentum of the after effects of June 84, the ISYF were instrumental in getting rid off the Old Akalis, Congressi, commi's and pro- Ghandi supporters from our Gurdwaras, mostly through physical means. I do not think that the youth off today are united enough, or brave enough to do that know. It was unfortunate that what the ISYF had achieved was undone in certain circumstances due to the youngsters not taking over or getting involved. Today we have the same scenario, youngsters do not want to get involved within Gurdwara committees. If you want to suceed, then you need to ensure that you target a number of Gurdwaras (not those already doing Sikhi parchar, or managed according to Gurmat) and that the local younsters with like minded elders, get involved in that Gurdwara activities, i.e. start with Sewa. get the Sanagt on your side, through PYARE AND SEWA. Then you can make a sustainable long lasting change. Otherwise like post 84, you can go in and force the change, but once you are gone it will not be sustained.

''BUT there is a limit to how much one can take,there is more unity amongst us Youth than the elders '' A succesfull team is one that is composed of individuals with diverse skills, such as Innovation, knowledge, experience and expertise in a particular field, does not matter if they are old or young. Sikhism does not believe in generational gaps, Enlightement can be at a very young age, Guru Harkrishan ji or at a very old age, Guru Amar Das ji. Unfortunatley, the youth also seem to be divided into a number of Organisations. At least with the ''so called elders'' there is some type of co-ordination under the FSO banner. Let the youth build on this co-ordination.

''True but a Khalsa must also stay within aagya of Guru Sahib regardless of the circs, i.e. the bigger picture'' So does the aagya of Guru Sahib, say that the murder of Sikhs etc, is ok, as it is for the greater good to come. Does it say that, the one person who could have united all the Sikhs during this time of oppression and also prevented infighting amongst the Sikhs involved in the Armed struggle, through any form of communication to the Panth, should stay quite. If it is the aagya of Guru Sahib, we should all follow, why do anything at all.

If you respect Sant Jarnail Singh ji you should respect Baba ji’s Bachan That is not true, respecting someone, does not mean that you agree with everything they say, this may be due personell weakness. Ulitmate respect is that shown to the Guru Granth Sahib. The teaching of respected Guru Sahibs, is that a true Sikh/Khalsa, should never stand by and do nothing, whilst their is injustice occuring. Since 1984, Sikhs have been killed in faked encounters, tortured, our women-folk raped, our elders harrassed. Freedom Fighters, took up the armed struggle as a last resort, many of those were very close to Sant ji and obtained Shadat. How can a true Khalsa, like Sant ji, remain silent and inactive during this period. My questioning this, does not mean that l am showing dis-respect to Baba ji, as it is very hard to understand the true words of a Bram -gyani, as we are only ordinary human beings. It is once we ever achieve that level of spirtuality that we can enagae with and understand the words of a Bram-gyani.

Manmohan Singh, has done some great work in raising awarness of the Khalistan issue, lets not forget this. Some people follow and practice their religion to the end, some try to and fail at certain times. It is a personal choice, if someone wants to take their kirpan off, it shows their conviction to their faith. However the weakeness of those that take off their Kirpans, does not mean that it si allright for all Sikhs to take off their Kirpans. It becomes an issue, if those that do take off their Kirpans, say it is within their faith, that they can do, to cover their weakness.

can we all ensure that we have photos of all shaeeds, (i.e. Sant Jarnail Singh, Bahi Amrik Singh, Subeg Singh, Beant Singh, Sukha, Jinda, Talwinder Singh babar, Sukhdev Singh babar etc) with the words - martyred fighting for Freedom and Justice, so that we can show that we are not bothered about pressure from Indian Government (like they said there should be no photos of shaeeds in canada)

Its a two way process. The programme was advertised extensivley, especially on this discussion forum. If the youth cannot be bothered to turn up, but just complain, thats not going to get us anywhere. I am reminded of President Kennedy's speech, which modified would read as: ''Do not ask what the Panth is doing for you, But what are you doing for the Panth'' Elders and the Youth need to work togther, as our Diversity in terms of diverse skills is our strength based on our mutual love for our respected Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Can Sarpanch or anyone else that was present let us know: What was the turnout and what organisations were present ?