Karku_007

The Sant Samaj stated that they had over 30 members who were elected onto the SGPC as a result of supporting Akali Dal Badal. If correct then surely the 30 should come out in support of Sada Haq film. As the IPD are claiming to be the representatives of the Sant Samaj and its General Secreatry, Bhai Jasbir Singh, maybe they can make sure this happens that is if they disagree with the banning of the film and not afraid to challenge Badal' s Akali Dal.

''Not a single Gurmukh calls Harnam Singh, Sant. Only some mindless fools call him Sant. Also Bhai Amrik Singh ji is exposing Harnam Singh's wrong doing. You being in love with Harnam Singh obviously don't want that'' This is a sign of inmaturity. How do you know that no single Gurmukh supports Baba Harnam Singh ? so by your logic Baba hari Singh Randawa and other prominent Sikhs are not Gurmukhs. I suppose Sant Jarnail Singh Bhrindwale's family, especially his son, Isher Sing is also not a Gurmukh. Singh's close to Baba Harnam Singh ji, say that if nothing elses they have a lot of respect for him in that he does a lot of 'Nam abyasa'. Please post arguments with a bit of logic.

I am sure that the link to the Guidance by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which is a statutory non-departmental public body (NDPB)— set up by Parliament, has been posted before. The Guidance explains the current UK legislation as related to Sikhs as well as 'good practice' examples. http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/publications/guidance-and-good-practice-publications/general-guidance/#sikharticles

''The funders of the rally such as FSO need to really move away from the same old formula, worrying about pleasing the same old Sikh personalities with stage time and give way to new innovative ideas to work towards marketing a powerful message. As ever, it's all about letting go of some of that power'' Suggest you contact FSO and or Sikh Federation UK, who are members of FSO, to work on planning next years rally with the ideas as above. If they do not allow you to be part of the planning or just ignore you, then we will definatley know that they do not want to let go of 'power'.

My understanding is that an e-petition was started, and which if it had a 100, 000 signatures, would be discussed by a Parliamentary committee and if they decided it was in the interst of the nation, the issue would be discussed in Parliament via a debate (i have been told by this by a person who works closely with politicans and civil servants ) However we only had just over 9,000 signatures. What happened to this ? We then had a paper petition started and the 'Kesri Lehar' linked to this. The information given again was inaccurate that if we get 100,000 signatures a debate had to happen in Parliament, which is not True. So the Sikh communities 'hopes' have been built up on iaccurate information. This just show a lack of coordination and people just deciding to do things wothoput doing some research or speaking to Sikhs who have experience of such things. However the positive impact of the Kesri Lehar and petition is the galvanising of the Sikh community and raising awarness of injustices being faced by the Sikhs by all. It is important that we use the full impact of 100, 000 signatures to engage with the British Government. Suggest that those leading meet up with existing Sikh Organisations working in this 'field' to maximise impact.

Has Baba ji, said anything or defended Sant Baba Ranjit Singh Dhadranwale in any of his diwans ???

It is a shame that the youth also did not listen, as they were told not to push for Bhai Balwant Singh to be Jathedar of Akal Takht and to look at the bigger picture. Those that did say this to them, were told that they were 'gadars. agents of the government and tratiors'. Some of my freinds relatives have been involved since 1984 and they too were called agents. As i have spoken to some of those involved, was told that we should focus on the issue, rather than the person, i.e. Why death sentence for Sikhs and not others, i.e. those responsible for the massacre of Sikhs, IS this treating Sikhs as equal citizens or as second class etc. However some of the youth leading and making statements, speeches would not listen. In my opinion we need all to work together, youths, elders including our sisters and mothers.

We forget, why the need for the Dharm Yudh Morcha that led to June 1984 and then Khalistan? Our Dharm was under attack, not that of the Christians, Muslims or Hindus as they all had protection. The need was to safegurad Sikhi within or outside if need be of the Legal and Political framework of the State of India. Which religion is being impacted on at present and still has no protection under the constistution of India - Sikhi. So lets get it clear the need for Khalistan was the safegurading of Sikhi within a legal and poltical framework. That framework operating under the principles of Gurmat would automatically benefit all those living under that framework. It is not the notion nor the name ''Khalistan'' that is the issue, but that of the credibility and approach of those promoting it. Having spoken to close relatives involved, the role that the Federation etc have and are playing is being a voice for the Sikhs of Punjab, INTERNATIONALLY. They are lobbying Political and other national and International Instiutions on the plight of Sikhs in Punjab as they cannot do so, unlike GOI. So to counter false propoganda. The linkages are there, but not publicised.

My understanding is that Panthic Jathebandis in the UK, are not asking for mercy etc. Balwant Singh has dared the CM of Punjab to hang him. The panthic jathebandis are asking the Punjab CM, to take a stand, either hang him (show your true colours again) or Free him. This does not leave ant room for him to wriggle out off, as suspending or delaying the hanging is not an option. The suggestion sent to the Akal Takht by UK panthic jathebandis is for him to ask CM Punjab to stop the hanging and release him, as above.

The reality is that the Jathedars have been given this advice after a meeting between Akal Takht Jathedar and Sukbir Badal, supported by people like Sant Samaj and Bhrindwale's family, via Bhai Jasbir Singh Rode. No body will be able to verify all the e-mails, letters etc to the Akal Takht, this is only a paper exercise, they will then say that the majority view is the appeal route, without any independant verification. The reality is that the Punjab Government should be challenging the orders of the High Court, in that carrying them out is not in the public Interest and would have a negative impact on the security situation in Punjab. These are the games being played at the expense of Bhai Blawant Singh ji, as explained to me by an elder.

My understanding is that he has admitted he was involved in the assisination of Beant Singh. The Courts have tried him and sentenced him to death, based on his admission (they could have given him life sentence). The responsibility is now on the State to carry out the Courts orders. Bhai Sahib is throwing a challenge to the State, saying go ahead and 'hang me''. There are no Legal arguments, it is up to the State, they can if they want to not carry out the orders, based on a number of issues, i.e. by carrying out the orders, this will effect the peace and harmony of the State, there could be civil disturbances and further loss of loss and Violence etc. Our lobby is to highlight the injustices Sikhs are facing, with this as the lateset one aganist Sikhs at an International level. The lobby of the UK Governemnt and EU, is because they are against the Death penallty and as British citizens we expect our Government to raise with the GOI. By the wat, what is the stand of the IPD, as they support SAD Badal and have been encouraging all Sikhs to unite under SAD (see there web site)

So much for the IPD petition, the Sant Samaj and more importantly its main adviser Jasbir Rode have been played by the Akali Dal. Not only this re-buff, but i understand only 2 candidates of these have been given a ticket on behalf of Akali Dal. What is IPD's response know??

We live in a democratic country which has freedom of speech with limitations. What i saw yesterday, was against the law of the land, which is openly inciting people to viloence and committ murder, use weapons to do so support those that have been involved in acts of viloence even if they committ to murdering anyone. All this by so called clever youths of today, great l say, what i way to get Sikhs labelled as terrorists and Sikh Organisation to be banned by this government, l am glad that they did not respond, as if they had they would be most likely banned like BK and ISYF. Unfortunatley the youth are being used to do the work of the Government of India, that is discredit those campaigning for Khalistan, following the lead given by Sant Jarnail Singh Bhrindwale. Unity amongst the youth, supporting Amrik Singh Ajnla (who is doing a great job), who openly says that Sant Harnam Singh Dhumma and Jasbir Singh Rode are ''ÇATS'', agents of the Government ( i personally think they are not, they are playing a very dangerous political game, not for personal gain but for the panth), yet a number of youth recognise them as leaders in Punjab.

[has the I.P.D been set up in the UK as the members are individuals who do not get on with the Sikh Federation? From what i have seen of IPD reps on the Sikh TV Channels, this seem to be correct, i.e. Ragbir Singh from Walsall, was expelled from the SF UK, for misconduct behaviour, Balbir Singh Randawa (Huddersfield), was selected as an organiser in the SF UK Panel, but probably wanted to be Chairman and Kashmir Singh (Leicester), was a regular member, for a number of years, of the 5 member panel that is responsible for selecting the SFUK National Panel (executive), but has had a falling out with SF Leicester branch members. Even if IPD have some youngsters leading it, the reality is that the people mentioned above will be the ones pulling the strings, as can be seen from reps of IPD on Sikh TV and press. Would be good to get IPD to clarify all questions raised.

Why has the post by Punjab 5 been removed, which was asking certain questions about the IPD ????

If you want to demonstrate, then do so agianst the Taliban, l am sure a lot of people of all religions will support you. We should be encouraging the Pakistan Government in their 'fight against the Taliban'. You are right in that they created the Taliban, it looks as thou, they will also finish them.

It is not only Sikhs living in Pakistan, that are suffering. It is the people living in the SWAT area, of all religions. Out of a total of say 300,000 refugess, fleeing this area and now residing in camps, maybe a fraction of them are Sikhs. Do not make this into a Sikh-Muslim issue. As Sikhs, we pray everydau for 'Sarbat da bhalla'' not just for Sikhs.

Surley it would have been better to include dedication or giving Blood in the name of those that gave shed there Blood for the Panth in June 1984.

I listened to Bhai Sahib's speech on you tube (could not hear it all at the rally). First of all can l say that his speech was delivered in an excellent manner and l agree woth a lot of the content. However, please take the following as positive critisicm: If we are saying that it is the youth only, that are parying to Guru Gobind Singh, by doing Chaupi Sahib paths, for the chardi kala of the panth, why know, where have they been for the last 25 years (agree some were not born), l know a lot of Sikhs who have been doing Chaupi Sahib path, at least 5 to 25 everyday for the panth, they do not 'boast about it'. Chaupi Sahib path and all other prayers are to guide us and assit us in the decisions we make everyday, that is the Guru's tecahing. It is not about doing nothing, just path and then expect a miracle to happen, that is Brahminism. To get justice, we have to be engaged with International politics and campaigns, and be guided by our prayers, not just sit around and say the paths will do everything. The purpose of the Chaupi Sahib Paths, should be around raising awarness of the Injustice faced by the Sikhs and at the same time, getting youth closer to doing bani and understanding it, not about waiting for 'Guru Sahib' to get us justice, HE WILL DO THROUGH THE ACTIONS OF HIS KHALSA, WHO WILL BE GUIDED BY PRAYERS. It is not right to say that nothing has been achieved in the last 25 years and that the youth will know rely on the path and then Guru Gobind Singh then getting justice for us, is that to say that those Sikhs that have been campaigning for the last 25 years, were not true Sikhs. Just my thoughts.

It is unfortunate, that some Sikh organisations and institutions have aleady made press-statements, without knowing the facts. What should have been said, is : ''That the loss of any life, is a tradegy. However to ensure that incidents, like this do not happen again, we need to look at what was it that 'drove' those to commit such an act. By investigating the motives that rightly or wrongly made those individuals take such action and then addressing and or removing any actual or perceived realities, can we ensure that this type of incident does not happen again''

It would be good, if those attending or organising, can ensure that we have a coach from the Gurdwara to the 'rally' in London in June. In the past they have never had a coach.

You need to be aware that Sikh Organisations are working with the Government on developing 'guidance' around the Kirpan for public buildings. In the past, there have been a number of cases, like this and all have been resolved by having a dialoude with the School, resulting in some local athourities developing 'Guidance on wearing of Kirpans' in Schools. SCYS nottingham, have been involved in the past and l would suggest that we let them the local Gurdwara, lead on this. Although the law is in our favour, it can be overuled on health and safety issues. We should not be talking about Legal action, but by diplomatic dialouge.

It would be good if the channel, can organise discussion groups, around Sikh issues, both in the UK and abroad. This could be with 2 to 3 Sikh professional and an audience discussion. issues like: Sikhs and Legal or Legislation in the UK, to prevent discrmination against them. What 'rights ' do Sikhs have. Freedom of Religion vs freedom of Expression Sikhs and human Rights both within India and outside (i.e. France, banning Turban) Just some food for thought.

Can the organisers of the protest, let us know the following, so that we may all support: What are the Objectives of the protest Who is the protest aimed at What outcomes are we looking at from the protest. Can the organisers let us know ?