Mann-Sahib

Hello My apologies in advance if this post offends anyone. I have been quite interested in Sikh politics and affairs for a while now and have come here with a few observations. In our panth we have Sikhs that either believe in Bhindrawale or not - both camps ridicule each other. Why is it that we as Sikhs cannot agree to disagree on Bhindrawale. Is agreement on Bhindrawale's actions a pre-requisite for a united Sikh panth? Why is it that we cant just allow each other to have their opinions on the matter but also stick to a united agenda? Similarly our Panth is also split in camps of those in favour of Khalistan and those that are not - why can we not just agree and disagree on this also. I personally think that we must have a united agenda that all Sikhs support - an agenda that may not include Khalistan as its priority right now. The Agenda may look anything like the following: - justice for the victims of the 1984 anti Sikh genocide - Sikh Agenda aligned Lobby groups in various Western countries - the list can go on the point of the above would be to help us unite and agree that there are differences of opinion about major things in Sikh affiars but not to let those factors distract us anymore. Over 28 years has passed since Operation Bluestar and quite frankly we have'nt achieved much since. We have been conned by the Indian government from day one and continue to infight amongst ourselves causing all sorts of divisions. We need an Agenda that the whole Sikh Panth strives towards on a global scale. Another thought I have is that the Gurus gave us the Akal Thakt - the supreme seat of Sikhism. We are all aware that our ranks have been infiltrated and that the SGPC is corrupt and devoid of leading Sikh affairs effectively. Why can we not declare a virtual Akal Thakt where we have profiled sevadars, scholars that have had their backgrounds scanned to ensure we only have the best people at the helm of Sikh political affairs and those that would do it justice accordingly? Please let me know your thoughts on the above. Manny

This is not an attack on all Jatts by the way - my family caste (not that i beleive in it is Jatt) Most of these uncles on Sikh TV and Sangat TV that go on and on about Khalistan are so uneducated and backward. I know some of them personaly and can say that these peope shold not be at the forefront of propogating Khalistan - they cannot even speak English properly. As I know some of them I have first hand experience of hearing them spit out anti-tharkan / Kumar / chamar venom when in their own little circles. On a side note, none of the off spring of these men are even wearing the dastaar - they should practice what they preach at home before taking stage on Sikh Chanels... I would also like to add that my return from a 6 week stay in Punjab this Summer left me with the most sour taste - the Sikhs over there dont even want a Khalistan - forget Khalistan, the majority of people I came across may wear a turban but do not have the ideals of a Sikh. The place is doomed! We should educate ourselves, get to positions of power and we must maintain our Sikhi Saroop on an international scale - once we are a proper Khalsal we wil get a country of our own - does it have to be in Asia?

Hi I agree with the points you have raised. This is the very reason why the majority of the non-jatt sikhs do not want a Khalistan - it is due to the discrimination they have recieved from jatts first hand. Before anyone has a pop at me, please search youtube for relevant videos on this topic - this cancer will never leave us alone, its in our makeup! I personaly think that a Khalistan maybe created somewhere else on the planet - would that be a bad thing? Most likley would be born out of non-punjabi Sikh efforts.

Hi Genie I agree with you, but would'nt there be some value in getting a print in a national newspaper asking people to come forward and provide information that may lead to the arrests of such scum? Has this been tried yet? I think we should give a clear sign that we as a community will never give up the quest for justice even if a thousand years were to pass by! Im really saddened by this post 1984 situation - we have all these Gurudwaras in the west - why could they not all allocate a percentage of their funds each year to the victims of the 1984 genocide? The funds could have been used to employ the worlds best human rights lawyers to fight the cases in the world court of human rights - no need for indian lawyers and courts! The money could have also been used to rehabilitate the victims and their families. We can still do this....

HI All another burning question. Why dont we as a community use the Indian media to identify and shame those involved with the 1984 anti sikh Genocide? Below are some ideas: - we could use the main newspapers in India to run adverts on people we know that were involved with the genocide - a sort of name and shame - we could also use the incentive of money / rewards for people to bring forward evidence in total anonimity which identifies and proves certain individuals were involved with the genocide - we could also use the media and cash incentive to locate footage that captured certain individuals such as Amithab Bachan inciting the mobs / general public to attack SIkhs / avenge the murder of Indira Ghandhi - we could also use social media / SEO to divert peoples India searches to websites that deal with providing evidence and informaiton about the anti-Sikh genocide From my limited intelligence, I believe this may help in shaming the Indian government - what do you guys think? Please let me know your thoughts on the above.

Hi everyone I have come across a situation many times when discussing the attack on Sikhs in Delhi - Hindu's always come back with the question "what about the Hindus that Bhindrawale's men / Sikhs killed in Punjab". I would like to know what the real situation was - were Hindus killed by Sikhs in Punjab and if so to what extent? Also what should the avarage Sikh's response be when questioned about the killing of Hindus in Punjab? I look forward to your replies. Manny

SinghGuvi Thanks for your reply. Please can you providence info? Why are we not documenting their stories and their situation today. Surely the Sikh Panth re ignites these men as living legends? Any further information from others would be greatly appreciated. Manny

Hi I would like some information. From what I have been told there were two Singhs that murdered the Nirankari / Darshan Das baba back in the 80/90's. Please can someone provide information on where these Singhs are today and what there situation is? Regards Manny

My apologies for now knowing who this is - please can you elaborate with further details. What did he do and why is he in prison?

Also, It would'nt necessarily need to be located in India....

Hi Nick Clegg went on a school visit to Auschwitz, it's stated that he walked away quite disturbed at the material presented there. The camp is now a museum depicting the horror of the holocaust. It has the power of opening people's emotions to the effect they all agree that such devastation should never beckon the Jewish people. Why can't we also develop such a museum to exhibit to the world what horrific acts by the GOI were enacted upon the Sikh community in Delhi and Pubjab? Manny

Sherdil Your so typical making insulting comments sitting at your computer - I bet you'd be a right <edited> if you we're face to face with me. I'm not commenting on thus anymore

Mr Doaba Responses like yours are exactly why I posted here. I have no desire to ever be affiliated with Jatts! Take care

Sherdil There's no need to use the term Troll! It just shows that we Silhs cannot even have a frank discussion without either party getting p'd off and insulting. Sherdil By the way Mann is not exclusively a Jatt surname, go do some research.

To S1NGH Mate I'm pure Mann! Anyway just so you know I'm not really a Bhindrawale supporter, I respect your decision to be his supporter so respect mine not to be. I have made a few observations and put them onto this forum. The points I have raised are all reasons why the majority of non-jatt will not support a Khalistan. There can only be a Khalistan once there is no caste. By the way please refrain from stating I have an inferiority complex because I could not be further from the truth. Our Panth is in bad shape cause of where these Jatt leaders have taken us!

I also agree. Why are all Punjabi films about a farming family, whay are so many charities set up to help farmer suicides? Why is not help extended to those families of other backgounds? There must be countless carpenters, blacksmiths, cobblers, tailors that have hardships who are all part of Sikhi and Punjabi culture - why is no help extended to them? Every single Punjabi film that has ever come out - even the new ones are around Jatt families! why? Why so much importance on Jatts? What about the rest of us? This is also a cause of divide in Sikhi - it will get bigger and bigger. I also believe it is a major reason as to why so many / probably the majority of non-jatts do not want a Khalistan! Mann-Sahib

Hi I would like to write some views here that I think are true - I dont mean to upset anyone but I think the Jatt community needs to wake up and smell the coffee! Please see below: - Jatts are not the highest or toughest - the British passed laws when ruling Punjab to favour Jatts. Thus dividing the Sikh quom - Jatts have ruined the political landscape of Punjab - the entire events leading upto and after Operation Bluestar were due to political incompetence of the Jatt leaders - who I may add dominate Punjabi / Sikh politics - The Gurus of SVA Soami (Radha Soami), Ram Rahim etc are all Jatt! - they are the enemies of the panth - The Jathedars of Akal Takhat have been mostly Jatt have ruined the sanctity and supreme just being of the Sikh shrines and political affairs. - It was quoted somewhere that Bhindrawale promised that he would give the persons weight in gold to the individual who killed the Nirankari guru - Bhai Ranjit Singh (ex Jathedar of the Akal Takht) killed the nirankari guru but was ignored - not that he wanted the gold! - Jatts are actually now becoming a poor community in Punjab and outside of Punjab - so what are you guys bragging about in your songs? Others castes have and are doing so well without any help - All punjabi films / songs are about Kethi / farming - this industry is finishing in Punjab so what is it you are bragging about? Jatts have been given so much help by means of free electric / water to run their farms. This type of benefit has never been extended to Chamars, Tharkans, Kumars, Rajputs, Chimbe, Nai etc but they are doing so much better! - In terms of body and physique Jatts are no whay superior to other Punjabi Castes! All the above is pushing our Sikhs from other castes away from Sikhi, it is tarnishing the image of our dasaars! In view of the above I would like to humbly request my Jatt brothers and sister to please come down to earth and join the Sikh community as Sikhs on an equal level - your not better than anyone! In fact displaying such discriminate behaviour is tarnishing the rich image of great souls such as Baba Deep Singh Ji. My rant is now over Mann-Sahib

Hi guys I'm interested in finding ways in which we can prove by way of evidence that Amithab Batchan was involved in inciting revenge attacks against Sikhs after the murder of Indira Ghandi. I think we as a community need facts based on actual footage that was recorded by any individual or access to the satelite records that DoorDarshan was transmitted from. Did India have their own Satelite when transmitting DoorDarshan? If not then maybe the Sikh community could locate the operators of the satelite used by DoorDarshan and request access to those records? Probably wishful thinking but a possibility. I know that alot of people state they saw Amithab Batchan inciting the mobs but we need proof so we may initiate court proceedings against him to disbale his movements outside India - as I'm sure you will all agree that theres no point in using the Indian justice system we need to use the legal instruments around the globe to obtain justice. Will look forward to the replies on this thread - we Sikhs must take a positive structured approach to bring mutants such as Amithab to justice on par with what the Nazi hunters have done. Mandeep

Artmental Are you tying Punjabi style pagh or African? I tie Punjabi style pagh with seen (double) as they do in India for this type of pagh Rubia material is too thick even though it seems thin. The material that you need is Full Voil, the material is thicker than Mul Mul but thinner than Rubia. I've experimented with all the materials and find full Voil to be the best and it is confirmed as it is the most used pagh material in India too. I had to order the material from India as I could not find it here in Birmingham. Hope this helps