randip singh

Bhang is like any substance......bhang can be used medicinally, as Guruji did.......or abused .....like druggies.... Alcohol is used in medices to benefit people.....or can be use to abuse as with drunkards...... Cakes can be used to benefit people (inmoderation)............or abused by Fatties.......... :D

I don't understand what you mean?

Ok I stand corrected, but I am sure it mention sikhsangat somehwere. The man Hari Singh is an <banned word filter activated>, he is creating pure Manmat by bringing this meat argument as an issue in Sikhism. It is not a free forum at all, but one that Hari Singh wishes to control. Notice how he is denial about: 1) The message of Sikhism was for all including Muslims 2) That Muslims and Hindu's lived in villages together, and that Muslims were in a majority in Most Punjabi villages (present day Pakistan). 3) Denial of Hindu funeral rites where ancestors were honoured by sacrifice....so still do. 4) Muslims made sacrifices, and still do. 5) The Nanak's and Bhaghts criticised futile rituals mentioned in 3 and 4.

Hi Hard Kaur I strongly recommend get some good books on Sikh History eg The Sikh - Patwant Singh or A History of the Sikh People - Dr Gopal Singh. Also try www.sikh-history.com, it has a massive database of knowledge, which Sandeep Singh Bajwa ji has compiled over many years.

No mate...that is Sikhiwiki....not Niskam Sewak Jatha wiki....... It is run in affiliation with this site, www.sikh-sangat.com.....that is why I raised it here.

So why are the editors, especially Harji posting GURU NANAK NISHKAM SEWAK JATHA propaganda, instead of what the Sikh Rehitmaryada says. This fellow is a follower of this Baba dera nd should in no way we editor on a site which is promoting Sikhism and not dera values. Sorry I forgot to say. This fanatical Niskam Sewak Jatha fellow Harji Singh should be removed immeadiatly from the editorial staff at www.sikhiwiki.org and replaced by a non-jatha person. That site is making the impartiality of this brilliant site look bad.

someone once said "if you wish to be a friend to me then be a friend to the human race" :D My Jatha is the human race ! Best Wishes

In a word yes. A good example is the disagreement I had with the chap from sikhiwiki. I firmly believe had he not been from a Jatha he would not hold such extremist and onse sided views. see: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=19919

Great, not he won't let me reply....so I will partially reply here to show what a complete fool this fellow Harji is. ‘’’Far from. I am calling it as I see it. You are a Kenyan “Sikh”. You follow a Jatha Baba. You follow Jatha Baba Math and not the teachings of the Akal Takht or othodox Sikhs. You are not in a position to be lecturing any Sikhs who have taken Amrit at Harmandhir Sahib and eat Jhatka meat on the finer points of Sikhism.’’’ Every Tuks has a message. If the message is not complete then read the group of lines or the whole of the Shabad. If you care to look at the SGGS on Meat article, from which all the Tuks were taken, you will see that none of the sections quoted is a one line quotation – So even your basic observation is completely wrong. ‘’’ Sorry you are wrong yet again, and I will you give and example blow by blow of how completely and utterly wrong you are and how you Vaishnav Hindu Sant Mat is destroying Sikhism. Let us take - You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? parbhaatee. Prabhaatee: bayd katayb kahhu mat jhoothay jhoothaa jo na bichaarai. Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false. ‘’’So here is the opening line of the Ang. It is saying basically there is truth is Christianity, Islam and Hinduism…the background to this…..when Kabir was around his own city of Benares was sacked….100,000 people had been massacred in Dehli………Timur then sacked Benares with, even Mullahs taking part in killing Brahmins……… http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/742629/posts ………..so what Kabir is saying is there is truth in all religions….so far so good….you understand?’’’ ja-o sabh meh ayk khudaa-ay kahat ha-o ta-o ki-o murgee maarai. ||1|| You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens? ||1|| ‘’’This is saying that God dwells in and in everything, so why are you killing a chicken as a sacrifice to him (quarbani)……understand?’’’ mulaaN kahhu ni-aa-o khudaa-ee. O Mullah, tell me: is this God's Justice? ‘’’THE CRUX…..this is being asked of a Mullah…..so Mulla (a Muslim Priest)……why do you kill chicken when Khudha (one of the words for allah or Gods), dwells in all)…….in other words, you are sacrificing chickens to God….God lives in the chicken to.’’’ tayray man kaa bharam na jaa-ee. ||1|| rahaa-o. The doubts of your mind have not been dispelled. ||1||Pause|| ‘’’You still have doubts about this ritual….(see line below about purification)…….in other word (see below about hypocraasy)…….your heart is full of hypocrisy etc (similar etc to when Guru Nanak prayed with Muslims in a Mosque and laughed at them for their minds were elsewhwere. pakar jee-o aani-aa dayh binaasee maatee ka-o bismil kee-aa. You seize a living creature, and then bring it home and kill its body; you have killed only the clay. ‘’’So when you are carrying out the sacrifice to God, the life force just goes somewhere else (see below)……there is no actual sacrifice to God. In anycase, God require no such appeasement. Read this about animal sacrifice: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...119503544988’’’ jot saroop anaahat laagee kaho halaal ki-aa kee-aa. ||2|| The light of the soul passes into another form. So tell me, what have you killed? ||2|| ‘’’See above’’ ki-aa ujoo paak kee-aa muhu Dho-i-aa ki-aa maseet sir laa-i-aa. And what good are your purifications? Why do you bother to wash your face? And why do you bother to bow your head in the mosque? ‘’’ This is a General comment about all these purification Mullahs carried out above. Kabir ji then asks about the other things they do and why they do them?’’ ja-o dil meh kapat nivaaj gujaarahu ki-aa haj kaabai jaa-i-aa. ||3|| Your heart is full of hypocrisy; what good are your prayers or your pilgrimage to Mecca? ||3|| ‘’’Again Mullahs, you carry out all these rituals, washing faces, sacrifice etc, yet you are hypocrites (these Mullahs sactioned the massacre of 100,000’s of Hindu’s under the nose of Kabir, and yet they had the ordasity to appear pious). tooN naapaak paak nahee soojhi-aa tis kaa maram na jaani-aa. You are impure; you do not understand the Pure Lord. You do not know His Mystery. ‘’’ The second crux, after, carrying out animal sacrifice, washing faces, praying, pilgrimage, you are still a hypocrite Mulla’’’ kahi kabeer bhisat tay chookaa dojak si-o man maani-aa. ||4||4|| Says Kabeer, you have missed out on paradise; your mind is set on hell. ||4||4|| ‘’’Mullah you are set on hell because of the way you treat people….it doesn’t matter if you sacrifice animal for allah, or pilgrimage, or fast or whatever, so long as you carry on being bigoted you will go to hell’’’

Hi All (and Sikh Sangat Team especially), http://www.sikhiwiki.org/ anyone can edit....provided you agree with Harji Singh's Sant Mat ............... I am going to have a real moan now, but it has come to my attention that the Sikh Wiki is run by the Niskaam Sewak Jatha bunch. Now we already know how various Jatha's including this one wish to put their own spin on Sikhism, but there is one chap in particular called Harji, who is passing himself as a Sikh Scholar, yet does not possses basic understanding of Sikh History and Bani. Now the team here is generally very good and extremly balanced in their opinions and their goals seem to be Sikh Unity (like www.sikh-history.com), so I am very surprised that you would allow such an illiterate an unread person to pass of his own spin as Sikh fact (since you are allied to Sikh wiki) Recently a memeber of our forum got into a heated debate with this Harji fellow. The person from our forum who shall remain anonymous is actually a lecturer and expert in Bani and Sikh affairs and managed to win the arguments with Harji, but Harji continues to hold his fanatical stance despite losing the debate. I have some questions: On Sikh Wiki: 1) Should not a balance be maintained and on controversial debates both sides of the debate maintained? 2) Should illiterate people who quote one liners from Angs (hence destroying meaning of the Ang), be allowed to moderate and edit? 3) Should people who do not even know basics like: OldNorth West India is dominated by Muslims (Pakistan Now); the futility of Muslim Quarbani and how our Guru's ridiculed it; the meaningless funeral rituals eg Anustrani carried out by Brahmins that were criticsed by our Guru's etc be allowed to edit such a valued database? 4) Should Harji be allowed to carry on his Manmat and his own Niskaam Sewak Jatha version odf Sikhism? 5) Did not Sikh Sangat split with Waheguroo network because of such fanaticism? Thanks Randip Singh

be sensible about the issue.............don't make a Hijab out of Kara please!! :D

Acctuaqlly Sikh means to learn, and you learn by questioning (even if that sometimes mean contradiction). :D

Yes very true!!

I agree 100%!!!

Very misleading title....I would say redress the balance.

MEAT EATERS, ONLY EAT FOR TASTE OR DO VEGETARIANS AS WELL? The most absurd argument that has been come across is that meat eaters only eat for taste, and too satisfy their taste buds. It is a selfish desire in other words, based on Greed and Egotism. The basis of this argument falls down with the fact that Vegetarian dishes (particularly on the Indian Subcontinent), are the most varied and most tasty of all dishes. To say that a vegetarian hates every mouthful of eating an Aubergine and Potatoes Curry and a meat eater loves every mouthful of Liver is indeed the weakest of all arguments. In fact page 61 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji states: jit tan naam na bhaav-ee <admin-profanity filter activated> tan ha-umai vaad. That body which does not appreciate the Naam-that body is infested with egotism and conflict. gur bin gi-aan na paa-ee-ai bikhi-aa doojaa saad. Without the Guru, spiritual wisdom is not obtained; other tastes are poison. bin gun kaam na aavee maa-i-aa feekaa saad. ; Without virtue, nothing is of any use. The taste of Maya is bland and insipid. ; aasaa andar jammi-aa aasaa ras kas khaa-ay. Through desire, people are cast into the womb and reborn. Through desire, they taste the sweet and sour flavors.

What on earth has homosexuality got to do with sardar Hari Singh Nalwa? You people are blind and biggoted towards homosexuality.......yet if someone called you a "Turban Head"....or "Raghead" or "Towel Head" you would be jumping around like lunatics. If you expect a modocom of respect towards Sikhs as a minority groups, you would do well to extend respect to other minority groups...in this case homosexuals. ....and no Sikhism does not reject homosexuals as Sikhs as you are implying....

Jats, Tarkhans, Kalal's, Nai's, Khambho, Lubhana, etc etc are all classified as Shudra ar per tha caste system.......... Even Khatri's are classified as the lowest of the Kshatriya's (because they adopted the plough and Trade).........

because they are stupid and insult Guru Nanak who abolished caste! However.....when you speak to these idiots that believe in this racism......they say "oooh....I believe in my race....not my caste"..........same thing.

what on earth are you talking about? Are you some sort of homophobe?

Absolutely....that is the point....some of my family who have taken Amrit there was no mention of meat eating...........others who are Jatha Bandhi orientated there was a mention.............both exist side by side happily. I'm not playing match maker.........but telling you about Gursikhs I know.................to me with their turbans and long flowing beards and their stature they are tall and handsome (now this doesnt mean I'm gay, or I am playing match maker)............so when someone starts using terminoligy such as filthy.....I am dumbstruck..........these people surely cannot be filthy.

Read this: http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/warriors/index.html

Taran Kaur the point is we are not enemies....but fellow Sikhs. I wish to see unity in the Paanth, and for this issue to be trivialised (which the Guru's did)........surely that can only strengthen the Paaanth....... OK lets put it this way....you meet a fine upstanding Sikh...tall, handsome, strong, Amritdhari..........control of 5 vices etc.........he eats meat.........why would anyone call him filthy.....thats beyond me?

Well I broke this taboo......and have been getting crap from sites like jattworld ever since :D

No actually, these things are not filthy, but the things you are saying are pretty filthy........I think you want there to be splits amongst the Sikhs. What I suggest is you challenge the article I have posted here....and also provided in the link below rather than talking nonsense and insulting people. I actually have a problem with people like this.....I think this fellow is gutless. 1) They are eating vrap like KFC. 2) they are hypocrits, and should eat meat in the open and not hide like cowards. Alas though...when you have people calling them filthy......they will hide. well I copied and pasted from another thread....should have read it :D