Mann_Jatt

I was thinking in the last few weeks about the biggest question ever asked by man, "What is the meaning of life?" or "What is the point of life?" Now I don't question the existence of Waheguru, but I keep thinking about this question and I can't think of any answers that even come close to answering it. So what is Sikhi's view on this or your personal view?? At the moment I think we are just entertainment for God, pawns on a chess board, we spend most our life doing things that have no real meaning like, eating, sleeping and going to work. Thanks.

I didn't see many clear cut questions, here are my answers to the ones I could find: No, I would have thought you gathered that much by now. I do treat people as equals, but if I want to marry someone from the same background as me it's a personal decision don't you think? No, you get variations in all races. I don't know I have only studied my own history. An obscure question, I don't see the relevance of it, however the characteristics are positive ones, so if Guru Ji was trying to create the perfect society some characteristics are going to be the same. As I do things which go against the ways of the Khalsa, so I am not going to disrespect the Khalsa panth or be a hypocrite by taking Amrit when I am not fit to do so. So can you now please answer by question below:

Hi Punjabi Predator, you may of missed the question I asked you: Thanks

Hi Punjabi Predator, I still don't think you will ever understand what I am saying about preserving my culture and heritage. Let me ask you a question, do you believe it is ok for a Sikh to marry outside their faith?? According to your stand on equality this shouldn't really be a problem, am I correct??? Here's an article you might be interested in, this relates to my stand on this issue:

This documentary is on TV tomorrow I think. Veera, people like Mr Sharma are extremely rare in the population of over one billion, so funny how people say we should only blame the Indian Government. These Hindus hate all talk of the 80's, I'm telling you they refuse to acknowledge it. But when our own people say forget it............................no words in the English dictionary can express my disgust.

This is first time I’ve seen such hatred for Punjabi Folk, don't understand why for most people it is their culture and heritage, however in defence for singers like Chamkila, he sang about rural village life, things that happen, he had a element of humour in his songs, fair enough if you are a proper Gur-Sikh but don't slate him for singing about the truth. Even Khalistani militants listened to his songs. He sang great Dharmik song's like "Talwar Main Kalgidhar Di". The Dhadi you listen to today was the creation of Punjabi Folk legend Amar Singh Shonki. There are many great Dharmik albums and songs, Kuldip Manak sang classic songs about Banda Singh Bhahader, Baba Deep Singh and Bhai Mati Das. There is something for everyone, even for the most devout.

I think this is going to be one of my last posts on this subject. Thank you ADMIN for not closing or deleting this thread. Punjabi Predator, I do treat people as equals I cannot empathise this point enough, the only thing I choose to do is preserve my Jatt heritage, I believe it is a personal choice and don't see how I am hurting or discriminating against anybody else. I have other reasons for making this decision. I respect you very much and I do agree with most things you have said, I am far from a perfect Sikh, I openly admit this. I am not Amritdhari as you can maybe tell and I don't think I ever will be. I would never disrespect the taking of Amrit while I hold my views. I don't lie or hide my views, at this moment in life I feel they are justified, but maybe I will change my way of thinking when I am older. Gursharan Singh Ji, I am a fool and don't know much about Gurmat/Gurbani to make any references. I can only discuss this subject from a historical angle. With regards to Aman Kaur penji's post, it was beautiful and a truthful post. I agree with pretty much all of it, I HATE the corruption of Sikh institutes, not only from a "caste" point but how materialistic it has become, money is the talk of Gurdwaras these days. On a personal note, I don't feel I am breaking away from much of what is said in the post, like I said above, maybe I will realise when I start reading Gurbani. In these difficult times for Sikhi I am glad that there are some real true Sikhs that follow Guru Ji’s writings to the letter. As for Randip Singh, I leave it up to the sangat to form their own opinions about him, you only have to Google "randip singh jatt" so see this man's internet crusade against Jatts.

If you bothered to read any earlier posts you will know that I only joined as this forum was not available for viewing anymore to the general public. Secondly I did not start this thread or any other "caste" thread, that’s the whole purpose of forums to reply to threads, I did nothing more than this. I felt that Jatts were being misrepresented so I decided to balance things out. I'm not making an issue, I am discussing my views on a particular issue. Pointless and irrelevant observation. Please don't keep twisting my words, it gets frustrating when people have to resort to this kind of behaviour. My point was that if Guru Ji wanted to make a point of inter-caste/race marriage they would have done so, they had 10 opportunities. I am nothing compared to Guru Ji, so please don't say things like that. This is becoming tiresome, I am not emphasising anything, I merely stated correctly what Jatts are, that they are an ethnic group. Ok, from persona l, cultural and historical observations I believe you can attribute Jatts with certain characteristics and traits. Let me give you one simple yet compelling example, after the 84 Delhi riots, how many Bhappa Sikhs did you see come forward and fight, we both share the same faith, however whilst one group is willing to die so easily, the other after so much horror still chooses to sit still. So if you take the religious factor away the only other variable I can think about is some genetic behavioural traits. I am not saying that all Jatts are like this or another group is all like that, you get variations in all races. Amusing stuff, can't believe you are contesting this. I'm not even going to bother with this one, just listen to some Punjabi Folk legends like Manak and Shinda. More lies, comments like this hold no credibility. > They are not theories my friend, there was a in-depth DNA study in America between so called higher and lower "castes" in India, the results were conclusive in that the higher "castes" that invaded from the West were genetically the same as Europeans rather than lower "caste" Indians. Also there was a DNA study conducted on Jatt Sikhs, results showed a clear genetic difference between other Indians, however the sample studied was small. These are strong indicators to the race theory. I agree however the only conclusive proof will be a full DNA study of Jatt Sikhs. Thanks for the amusement, I really don't think you have ever met a Jatt or been to Punjab. Jatts have no respect and spit on Brahmins in Punjab. Pre-Sikhism time Jatts were not very religious and had no particular ties to any one religion. You are also making insulting comments about the Phulkian Misl. Randip Singh you are quite famous, I remember reading your numerous anti-Jatt threads on various forums, I assume you are the same one, you must be doing well in the Google search rankings. Ok, Scythians were nomadic people and the vast majority travelled right up to the Punjab region and settled. Jatts are not the only group that descend from Scythians, there are also Rajputs, and you will find overlaps between Jatt and Rajput clans. There are traces of Scythian/Jatt ancestry in the Middle East, check the links below: http://www.iranchamber.com/history/article...of_mauryas1.ppa http://www.everytongue.com/iran/all-languages.htm (Number 28) What the German thing is all about I don't know. However you really put your foot in this one. As the man you see standing in the middle is Jatt Sikh, Dara Singh Randhawa, India's greatest wrestler, who stands at 6' 4". You are quick to fire blanks, but thanks for the entertainment. Yes I am proud that my forefathers were strong. With this kind of jealously I really appreciate the honesty and humbleness of people like Punjabi Predator and Aman Kaur when talking about this issue.

Punjabi Predator I am only now replying to you out of courtesy. Jatt does not equal farmer I have told you that and proved it. The Punjabi word for farmer is Kisaan. I am and will be until I die. You deny that a Caucasian Christian is not both White and Christian or a Black Muslim is not Black and Muslim. I always hear about American converts of Yogi Bhajan being refer to as White Sikhs, funny how you can't stand the notion of Jatt Sikh. I do view everyone as equals, you see you have to study the caste system at the time to understand what Guru Ji were saying. Although Jatts have never been a part of it, others were. Dalits and others were treated worse than animals and they had no basic human rights. It was this inhumane treatment that Guru Ji were against not whether you choose to marry and stick to your own ethnic group. With regards to marriage, all the Gurus married within their "caste", Khatris (please note that Guru Ji were beyond caste/race as their were of a greater being), but what I am trying to say is that if Guru Ji wanted to make a point about marriage they would of done so by marrying outside their "caste".I promise you nothing makes me more angry then "caste" based Gurdwara. I didn't disputed what Guru Ji said, you can't also deny the fact that Jatts are a ethnic group pre-dating the caste system who had and have their own culture, history and identity. Harmeet Singh, you can try all you want but the fact remains Sant Ji recognised their Jatt background, you can twist and play with the words all you want. You are facing a losing battle on here. As for that article, it doesn't include Punjab, doesn't matter anyhow, like I said above: As for Scheduled Castes, now that's a different issue altogether.

Punjabi Predator, I do not wish to further continue my discussion with you, as you distort my words, lie about the link, I checked it works fine: http://news.waheguroo.com/?{633Q6-17274-69...26-49443-Q3632} "Feature: Incidents from Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale's Life" I am both, they are not mutually exclusive, get over it. When did I say they were not Sikhs??? Stop twisting things, they were Sikhs of Jatt ancestory. When did I say it was about defending Jatts??? Please, unless you have anything of substance to say, don't bother with these weak distorted comments. I am talking about history but it's like you refuse to believe it exists. I will not respond to any more of these comments.

First of all, please don't delete or close this thread ADMIN ji, I never started this thread, but I simply want to explain my view. I have not swore or done anything to merit the closure of this thread, so please keep it open for me to respond to the views of fellow Sikhs. Congratulations on pointing out the obvious fact you get bad Jatts, I can name plenty of non-Jatts who were involved in killing Sikhs. You forget about the vast number of good Jatt-Sikhs like Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and General Subeg Singh and the thousands of other Khalistani shaheeds, you know perfectly well that the overwhelming majority of Khalistani fighters were Jatts. "You've commanded very large armies. I'm a stupid Jat." Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, Sant Ji don't deny their Jatt background, that's enough for me. Source: http://news.waheguroo.com/?{633Q6-17274-69...26-49443-Q3632} Please do enlighten me, provide with the appropriate links and sources. DO NOT make lies about Jatts, we spit on Brahmins. Read the opening post on what Jatts are, STOP LIEING. Amazon has plenty of books on Jatt history. We have history pre-dating Sikhi and the caste system, go educate yourself. MORE LIES, anyhow, understand this, you can call me whatever you like, call me the lowest of the low, I am a Jatt, we don't care what you call us, you can never put us down, we will always walk with our heads up high. This is Jatt mentality. QUOTE In lot of pinds especially Majha there is a lot divide between jatts and Sardars, Jatts drink, booze , ganja,charas, and do pot and Sardars and Jatts don't get along together.Jatts and Sardars??? The two are not mutually exclusive, many Jatts are Sardars. Making sweeping generalisations about Jatts doesn’t bode well for your post and its credibility. Punjabi Predator, do you deny the existence of different races??? I am talking from a historical perspective brother, from the misl period, most of the misls were composed of Jatts, right up to the shaheeds of Khalistan. Now to the subject of user ID's, why shouldn't I have the right to call myself what I am. This clearly means that I am not welcome here, I thought Sikhs were tolerant of all. I am not even disputing any religious points. I have been reading these forums for a while and only joined as SaintSoldiers forum was no longer available to the general public. I have full faith that the ADMIN will not enforce such a discriminative rule.

Look nobody can force conversion, it's his choice, dis-own him. Forcing him back into Sikhi is just as bad. Ensure you know exactly the reasons why he did convert though, might be useful in the future to prevent this kind of thing.

I can't upload my picture, any help!

Not again, what a ignorant reply. I don't follow any caste system, nor do Jatts. It does matter what a Jatt is, as lies cause the confusion in the first place. When did I say that we are not equal??? How dare you question Jatts loyalty to Sikhi, go pick up some history books, Jatts have been the backbone of the Sikhs whether you like it or not. Go look at the background of shaheeds that died during the 80's fighting for Khalistan. Sorry to the other veers, I didn’t want to make a issue of dividing the shaheeds that died for Sikhi, but this post took the p***.

I trust him from his actions not rumours, he gave up one of the highest positions in the country for his people and the time when he turned down that seat in parliament as he was not allowed to take his kirpan in. He realises that some political dialogue is needed with others to achieve Khalistan and he is right.