Hi I was the guy who posted about educating sikhs more post a few days ago. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php/topic/47783-time-to-educate-parents-and-youth-and-stop-conversions/page__s__224f9693c634f1c6dbe2a68c90debc24
I forgot my password so created another account. I am from Italy and have limited knowledge on sikhi, but after coming here (england) for 3 years to study, I saw some of the ways they tried to brainwash people with some made up facts, So plaease answer these questions in full, and if possible with valid references to back up the statements.
1) Guru nanak was a muslim, no non muslim goes /or is allowed in mecca
"Guru Nanak went to Hajj, we know that to go to Hajj one of the requirements is that one must declare the shahadah, and to fulfil all the rites thereafter. Guru Nanak was a sincere man, and therefore he must have genuinely believed in the principles of Islam."
2) Sikhism is a "man made" religion hence is not a real religion as such?
3) the Guru Granth sahib contains text of sufi poets, so sikhs are are suggesting that Waheguru i,e God had to plagerise from sufi mystic who followed the Prophet (saw)
4)The first statement of the Granth is Ek onkar,that is God is one, muslims say they knew this truth before any of the 10 gurus were born, so who told them?God or the devil?
and since sikhs dont believe in the devil you must conclude it was God which would make Muhammed a Prophet and which inturn would negate sikhism
5)Sargun is that which can be perceived by human senses. That is the material universe, gods, incarnation. Nargun is an attributeless deity. In the Guru Grant Sahib, God is called both Sargun and Nargun???
It teaches the contradictory concepts of God being Sargun i.e. with attributes and also Nirgun -without attributes (p287; p102)
If someone could summarise what this muslim has written on these web pages, I didnt understand it myself.
7) guru nanak never started sikhism, it was the later gurus that intorduces sikhi, of which guru nanak was given the title of the first guru, when guru nanak died, muslims followers thought of him as a muslim and hindu followers thought of him as a hindu
8) The scripture of Sikhism is not any revelation from God but only the compositions of the Gurus as well as those of certain Muslim and Hindu mystics. For this reason, there is no meaning in talking about the authenticity of the book as a Divine Revelation. Because neither the book nor the authors claim it to have been revealed by God.
9) Muslims, perform da`wah to the Sikhs, chiefly by appealing to their faith in the Oneness of God. We can tell them that Guru Nanak was most probably a Muslim when he died; the available evidence favors that conclusion. Anyway he did not try to replace Islam with a new religion; on the other hand, his utterances point to the fact that he certainly believed Islam to be the True Religion of God.
10) guru nanak was influenced by kabir who was a muslim one of his couplets
Dukh mein sumirana sabh karein Sukh mein karein na koya Jo sukh mein sumirana karein To dukh kaye hoye?"
"In times of trouble, God is remembered by all But none remembers Him during peace and happiness. If God is remembered in good times of happiness Why should trouble occur?"
In the quran it says
When some trouble toucheth man, He crieth unto his Lord, Turning to Him in repentance: But when He bestoweth A favour upon him As from Himself, (Man) doth forget what he cried And prayed for before, And he doth set up ivals unto Allah." [Al-Qur’an 39:8]
The Sikh scriptures therefore emphasise monotheism and God-consciousness
12) If sikhs must grow hair on their body as god intended why do sikhs cut their nails
13) If sikhs beleive in not harming animals why do they eat cheese and drink milk which come from cow?
There are some questions answered on this thread http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=112618&t=112618 about the lies spread on the site www.sikhs2islam.com. I couldnt be bothered to cut and paste them onto here, but they are worth checking out to make sure the ansrwes are correct.
A few steps I think would be a good thing aswell would be.
A good idea would be to answer these questions, add any other questions you guys are aware of muslims say to brainwash sikhs, and if someone could add them to
the website http://www.whyichosesikhism.com/ this would be great. its better and easier to remember to have these on one main website rather then having loads of them. and then add them to facebook, twitter and email them to everyone you know, if there are any racist remarks about muslims they may complain and have the site taken down, so remember to check there is no offensive stuff about muslims. Remember the main targets for muslims are 16-21 year old sikh/hindu girls, so if people are aware of these techniques before hand, they may think twice before going with a muslim, and also have the knowledge to answer back.
In italy there is a channel broadcasting called the sikh channel which I beleive is run from the UK. they regularly have discussion shows so why not have one on "the risk of conversions in the modern day" perhaps 2 amritdharis who know about sikhi, 2 girls who have been to university and see how muslims try to convinve them to become a muslim, and perhaps 1 mona singh. I understand the discussion shows dont usually cover taboo subjects such as relationships before marriage, but its a major problem in england and is getting worse.
methods used to convert I have come accross-
-deliberately making girls pregnant and encouraging girls to drop out of uni and leave home to marry them
-muslims wearing karas in clubs and shortening their names from mohammed to mohan
-druggin young girls/making them drunk and taking indecent photos threatening to show their families if they dont convert.
-islamist extremists paying muslims upto £10,000 to convert young girls. once having the trust of the young girl, saying they are going to pakistan to get married, where there passport is taken and they are left in a brothel.
-The biggest problem these days is slowly forming bonds with young girls, taking them out to dinner and clubs and paying for them, making them feel special, and then over a time span of 3 years (usual time spent in uni), they eventually become so close and start to sleep together, he then asks the girl to marry and convet to islam, and leaving her family behind. what they forget is that boyfriends come and go, family is there for life. The girl then fails to look ahead to the future how her life will turn out once married, the loving and caring boyfriend act disappears, and the girl is made to have 4-5 kids and spends the next 30 years beining up her kids. even if she does manage to get a divorce, mots sikh parents wont take her back and she probably ends up in some council flat raising kids all by herself.
also gives a chance to inform parents who have youngsters who will leave for uni in the next few years, they also need to be aware, the problem will only be solved if it is talked about.
aim to air the programme at chirstmas holidays as that is when students, parents and kids all of holidays, then 2 weeks before the discussion spread the word everywhere and encourage everyone to watch. perhaps a 1h 30mins show with the 30mins at then end for a phone in for people to ask questions. Once recored stick on face book, youtube so everyone can see it for future reference
bottom line is not enough people accross the uk know enough about their own religion sikhi, if you are amritdhari or a mona it is irrelevent as at the end of the day you are both still sikh and should know more about sikhi then the 10 gurus and the 5 k's which is taught in religious education classes to 12-13 year olds.
As I mentioned before DVD in english would be a great Idea, briefely explaining on the major events in sikhi. i.e 10 gurus, 1984, marajaha ranjit singh etc, and how many people have been sacrificed in the last 500 years for sikhi to be where it is today. maybe release 2 copies 1 in english, and the other dubbed in punjabi. theres a lot of videos on sikhi but they are all in punjabi, and many sikhs in england fail to understand it. Living in england all of the youth speak english so having a dvd in english makes sense, you can find all of the informations on different sources on websites, But it would be much easier and enjoyable for all if a dvd were made perhaps about 3hrs long with past video clips of shaheeds who died for sikhi
Going to the gudwara is great But like I mentioned on my other thread listening to gurbani and kirtan and katha, but not understanding any of it, they bascially sit there because there parents make them go to the gudwara and leave, they dont learn much about sikhi itself, which is why I think this DVD would be a great Idea along eith perhaps a leaflet if possible sent out to every sikh household. This would also educate parents especially young parents who basically grow their kids hair because their own parents made them, many parents have their kids hair cut from day one.
At the moment many of our parents from india, or grandparents who come from india already know about sikhi, in 3 or 4 generations time the number of amritdharis may decrease which is why it is important to act know and educate everyone to the same level. No on is saying that they must know every detail of sikhi and follow it to the letter T, But they should at least be aware of the basics and know it off by heart like our parents/grand parents know without even reading a book on sikhi.
some kids dont even know why it is important to cover there head in the gudwara, only because there parents tell them to, parents themselves who have limited knowlegde on sikhi. the dvd would also educate the sikhis to suffieceitn knowledge that when a muslims says "guru nanak was a muslim," they can say no he wasnt and then give a valid reason.
In italy there isnt a big problem with conversions but in england the problem seems to be huge. just because youngsters dont know anythjing about there religion.
The number of sikhi camps available to 16+ could also be increased so they can learn about sikhi in greater detail then the 8-15 year olds learn in gurmat camps these days.
Then for people who want to understand sikhi in more detail perhaps a 4-5 dvd box set could be made consisting of previous talks in sikhi camps and sikh socieities in england, and focusing sikhi in more detail. preice it and put it on amazon, boss site etc. People would rather watch a documentry or a film, rather then read a book, especially youngsters.
I have mentioned a few suggestions to educate sikhs in england and around the world, but it can only be done if we work together, or else in a few generations time when our parents and grandparents speak english as a first language, an as we become even more westernised, if you think some apni girls set a bad example for sikhs in this day and age imagine what it will be like in 20-30 years time. which was why I aimed this at amritdharis as they usually know more about sikhi then others, at the very least everyone should know about the main aspects of sikhi and the last 500 years.
the resources are all there its time to make this happen, dont just read it and let this article filter down to the lower pages in the next few weeks, Sticky if possible.
I am awarre like all religions sikhs have their playboys and there slags who sleep around, not giving a consideration to anyone else, but the majority of us want to learn and I think by using some examples I have listed we can make this happen.
Dont forget to add any other questions muslims have asked to try and convinve you to convert, and once posted is someone could add the questions and the responses to www.whyichosesikhism.com and then spread that arounf facebook, twitter etc, Would be greatly appreciated.
and also keep an eye out on muslims/islam forums spreading lies about sikhi. just go onto google and type in islam forum or muslims forum, then register and go to search type in "sikh" or "nanak", and make sure no BS is spread, you'd be amazed at how many lies there are on there, and how fast they spread. many have moderators so aslong as you dont take the micky out of them you should be able to have your own say. also keep an eye out on youtube for lies spread about sikhi on there.