vsingh2479

This is probably one of the biggest problems with our people, the inability to try and other stand other religions or cultures. There is a reason the Golden Temple has four entrances. Learning about other religions, cultures, things like the lost symbol, it doesn't hurt anyone. You either have people who don't try to learn about new things, people who jump and call everything that even somewhat challenges their views "anti-panthic", or people who just don't care and do drugs and what not. Keeping kes and taking amrit is part of an identity (being a sikh), the true pillars of sikhi are with believing in akal purakh and waheguru. You can still attain enlightenment by becoming one with waheguru and not doing chugli-nindiya and etc even if you haven't taken amrit. But you can't do it by just keeping long hair and taking amrit but not doing path and not keeping a pure heart.

Also just found out that he got married a second time to some girl half his age from bahadurgarh in 2004. They had anand karaj and everything just didn't register it in court. He was going to bring her to his dera. All this even though he is already married and has a son. Then he found out that she planned to run away once she was in the U.S. and he paid her and her family 8lakhs to stay hushed up. This guy is a PIG!!

Singh ji Instead of pronouncing one lines true/untrue, can you abck up your assertions with some afcts indicating background of this organization and who are behind it. Suffice to say as humans we have many drawbacks and to ridicule someone who is doing some parchar of sikhi is palin stupid. he is many times betetr than such non believers such as sikh lehara nd phoney asingh sabha canada who are damaging sikhism by their perverted propaganda. You know what bro, I have noticed that you are quick to bash the views of others but never give facts supporting your own. How about you back your statements with facts! Don't be a hypocrite.

So the problem arises with SIkhs that don't follow Akal Takht and these Sikhs hold power of Gurdwaras where excommunicated people can speak. Exommunicating Prof. Darshan SIngh does help because only the heretics that follow him will call him to the Gurdwara or other functions. Others that follow Sri Akal Tahkt will not call him, so now we have numbered it down to only a few Gurdwaras and to a certain group of people. So by excommunicating Prof Darshan Singh it has merit, but now there is a further action that needs to be taken against those that support him and bring him into Gurdwaras so he can spit his venom. Prof. Darshan Singh has been summoned to Sri Akal Takht and they will embarass him and show his true colors. Your televised suggestion is not going to work. Because the ones that support him will still bring him in Gurdwaras no matter what. The morrakh will still see him as a Sikh, who is up holding Sikhi. Since the heretics have been pointed out then what do you believe should be done about these individuals. They take Sri Akal Takht as a joke and slander Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji on stages, then what punishment is appropriate here in your opinion. The fact is that the only gurdwaras that invite them now are the same ones that will invite him later. Everyone knows that he has anti-panthic views, this has been ongoing for years now. Knowing that he will go on stage and spew hatred, they still invite him now, so i doubt a excommunication would stop them. As for the money, you can't make some one give money back. This isn't taxes or anything. For all we know, he may have spent all of it. Plus, there will be those that will make a issue saying that Akal Takhat punishment has to do with maya. I personally believe that his punishment should be a public apology saying that he was wrong, his views were wrong and that he never spew such hatred again. But would he comply? I doubt it. It is a loose loose situation. Once again, my point is that, how many sikhs have actually read Dasam Granth? How much knowledge does the common Sihk have on it? We read our daily nitnem and some have read the SGGS but we need to educate people about the Dasam Granth. What it is, what it states, who it was written by, in what context, etc. The common Sikh is not stupid, he will make his own decision and I am sure he will side with the truth. Admin Note: "vsingh2479", next time do NOT quote 7 pages of post. Just type what you want to type and click "post".

This baba even does pheem, or opium in english. Wow, find something new about this thug pervert baba every day.

My question to you is, what does excommunication do? Kala-Afgana was excommunicated yet he is still in news. If not him, then his protege's. What does excommunication do? They still go on radio shows, appear in news papers, make headlines with their hatred. We need to figure out a new way to resolve this problem. I fully agree with you, apart from being "formally" excommunicated, it does little. We (Sikhs) do need to find a way to deal with them. Obviously in PURAATAN times, (or even in the 80's and early 90's) everything was different, but the day and age and laws are different now. Something although needs to be done to these people (within the law). At least excommunication will be something, its formal within the Panth. Their only aim is to destroy sikhi. Puratan ji the purpose of giving mild punishment is to make the culprit realize that he has committed a mistake.While undergoing punishment he will become aware in his mind that it was wrong what he had done and should refrain from doing it again. Now this applies to normal sikhs.Saleable sikhs do not come to akal takhat as has happened in case of kala afghana and spokesman. Same thing is to happen in case of ragi. But good thing is that Ragi will be deprived of a platform in gurudwaras to carry out his propaganda. He will vanish like kala afghana in due course of time. This is an atheist movement and it will die its natural death when we wake up and immerse them by counter arguements , printing literarture etc. This has begun already begun. This is where you are wrong, the gurdwara's that he speaks at now will still invite him. Just like it is with kala-afgana and if by some miracle they do stop inviting him, then there are 100 other's like him that hang around with him. Dilgeer is the protege of Kala-afgana, and there are hundreds more. Excommunicatino does nothing. Do you really think that for these people jora seva is a big deal? THey do not think that they have made a mistake, they think that "hey, this is my punishment? What a joke!". That is what they think! Keep in mind that this thread is not about jathedars. This thread is about blasphemy of darshan ragi. he said bad things and sangat have forced jathedar to punish him. jathedar is a medium for punishing this rogue. do not spoil this serious thread by bringing in inadvertent issues here. you can start another thread if you want. are you for real? spoil? Dude this has everything to do with it. The very leaders who want to persecute these anti-panthic forces are anti-panth themselves. They are thug politicians at best. I respect Guru Granth Sahib most of all and then the authority of Akal Takhat but the way things are now, the Jathedars are political or just in search of filling their pockets. The likes of Dilgeer have said that people shouldn't even go to these summons because the Jathedar's are criminals themselves. When those that prosecute you are criminals also, there is no point. It is irony at it's best. Why not bring up the root of the problem? Those making the decisions for the panth? Those that most of the sikh population looks to? Why shouldn't they be held on the same standard as everyone else? Who judges them? Who gives them Punishment? Who summons them? I agree that Ragi, Kala-Afgana, and Dilgeer are wrong and should be punished, but they are right when they say that these so called "leaders" are only prostituting our religion. What do they do? They go to countries in europe and the America's and make money. Their punishments are lame. Do jora seva (look after shoes) or bartan seva (wash utensils)? If that is punishment, then i do punishment every time I go to a gurdwara. They excommunicated Kala-Afgana and he still has followers and is still spewing hatred. They just want to make it seem like they are doing something. It seems that our panth is all about "ex-communicating" someone. Don't you understand that these people don't care? Ex-communication would work if we barred them from the land and no one spoke to them or listened to them. But neither those excommunicated or the sikh public 't care, they still give speeches and spread their hatred and people listen. If they put their time and effort towards proving these anti-panthic forces wrong, it would be better. They are trying to lure the sangat into thinking wrong things, then these leader's should put their efforts towards bringing sangat back on the right track. Your right does Akal Takht have the power to be all for the Khalsa Panth. And the answer is no because Badal holds power over Akal Takht. Now the question is if Akal Takht is not held up should Prof. Darshan Singh, just be set free without any punishment. It's sad to say today even Sikh treat Akal Takht as a political game because when Akal Takht is making a decision in their favor then Akal Takht becomes all pure and true, but when it's not Sikhs get ready to shot, like with Prof. Darshan Singh. Sikh are attached to this man instead of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. So I can see why people would bring up now that Akal Takht is all about money and not about the Khalsa Panth. Singh, you say the punishment of cleaning shoes and washing utensils is not true punishment. So in your opinion what punishment do you believe should be given to Prof Darshan Singh. Because this is a curcial point in Sikhi. The slander of Prof. Darshan Singh is nothing to be taken as a slap on the wrist. And, if you believe Akal Takht has no authority here due to their own wrong doing then what should be done about Prof. Darshan Singh so he will stop spitting his venom and ripping the Sikhs into two? Not the Akal Takhat sir, no, the Jathedars are the ones that have faults. The fact is that excommunication brings about no change. These people continue to make news and spew hatred. Doing seva is no punishment in my eyes either. I believe that along with exommunicating them, why not televise a live debate where we will destroy their arguments. Once they have no arguments then what can they say? If they spew anti-panthic hatredin the news, we should print in newspapers the truth about Dasam Granth and SGGS. These are just suggestions. Saying Jathedars and then Akal Takht is the same cuz currently the Jathedars are corrupt and they hold power of Akal Takht. Excommunicating Prof. Darshan Singh does bring change. Not excommunicating Prof. Darshan Singh will be saying go ahead and keep spitting your venom Dashan Singh. You state that doing seva is no punishment and kicking him out is a bigger punishment then are you saying he should just get a slap on the wrist. Televising the event is not punishment. It just gives way for Prof. Darshan Singh to spit more venom. As a Sikh is it right to give way for someone to spit venom about our Guru. Should we broadcasting such events. The whole video where Darshan Singh spits venom at Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Sahib ji is there for everyone to see. What do you want to achieve by televising a debate that doesn't exist. Excommunicating Prof. Darshan Singh from the Khalsa Panth is a start of the punishment. Then Sri Akal Takht should add on to the punishment, which is doing seva and giving back all the royalties and money he, Prof. Darshan Singh collected while singing Dasam Granth Bani. Not only is it a punishment, but it is the only right thing for a Truly honest Sikh to do. Because Sikhs believe and practice honest living. If Prof. Darshan Singh does not give up the money he collected from singing Dasam Granth then he is not being a Sikh and his supportors should be looking into it and if they are honest Sikh themselves be writing letters to Prof. Darshan Singh to give up the money aswell. Sir, my point was that i am not doubting the Akal Takhat but those in charge. And no, i am saying the opposite, he should not get a slap on the wrist. Jora seva, in my mind is a slap on the wrist. Excommunication is punishment, but it solves nothing because he will spew hatred. I am not saying they televisae the event. They give him a chance to prove thath e is right by setting up a debate with Sikh scholars and televising it. When he is embarrassed and proven wrong in front of Sikh's all around the world, what can he possibly say? We are confident he is wrong and I am sure that learned sikh Scholars will shut him up. The videos will be put on youtube, media websites and he will float away into oblivion.

Keep in mind that this thread is not about jathedars. This thread is about blasphemy of darshan ragi. he said bad things and sangat have forced jathedar to punish him. jathedar is a medium for punishing this rogue. do not spoil this serious thread by bringing in inadvertent issues here. you can start another thread if you want. are you for real? spoil? Dude this has everything to do with it. The very leaders who want to persecute these anti-panthic forces are anti-panth themselves. They are thug politicians at best. I respect Guru Granth Sahib most of all and then the authority of Akal Takhat but the way things are now, the Jathedars are political or just in search of filling their pockets. The likes of Dilgeer have said that people shouldn't even go to these summons because the Jathedar's are criminals themselves. When those that prosecute you are criminals also, there is no point. It is irony at it's best. Why not bring up the root of the problem? Those making the decisions for the panth? Those that most of the sikh population looks to? Why shouldn't they be held on the same standard as everyone else? Who judges them? Who gives them Punishment? Who summons them? I agree that Ragi, Kala-Afgana, and Dilgeer are wrong and should be punished, but they are right when they say that these so called "leaders" are only prostituting our religion. What do they do? They go to countries in europe and the America's and make money. Their punishments are lame. Do jora seva (look after shoes) or bartan seva (wash utensils)? If that is punishment, then i do punishment every time I go to a gurdwara. They excommunicated Kala-Afgana and he still has followers and is still spewing hatred. They just want to make it seem like they are doing something. It seems that our panth is all about "ex-communicating" someone. Don't you understand that these people don't care? Ex-communication would work if we barred them from the land and no one spoke to them or listened to them. But neither those excommunicated or the sikh public 't care, they still give speeches and spread their hatred and people listen. If they put their time and effort towards proving these anti-panthic forces wrong, it would be better. They are trying to lure the sangat into thinking wrong things, then these leader's should put their efforts towards bringing sangat back on the right track. Your right does Akal Takht have the power to be all for the Khalsa Panth. And the answer is no because Badal holds power over Akal Takht. Now the question is if Akal Takht is not held up should Prof. Darshan Singh, just be set free without any punishment. It's sad to say today even Sikh treat Akal Takht as a political game because when Akal Takht is making a decision in their favor then Akal Takht becomes all pure and true, but when it's not Sikhs get ready to shot, like with Prof. Darshan Singh. Sikh are attached to this man instead of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. So I can see why people would bring up now that Akal Takht is all about money and not about the Khalsa Panth. Singh, you say the punishment of cleaning shoes and washing utensils is not true punishment. So in your opinion what punishment do you believe should be given to Prof Darshan Singh. Because this is a curcial point in Sikhi. The slander of Prof. Darshan Singh is nothing to be taken as a slap on the wrist. And, if you believe Akal Takht has no authority here due to their own wrong doing then what should be done about Prof. Darshan Singh so he will stop spitting his venom and ripping the Sikhs into two? Not the Akal Takhat sir, no, the Jathedars are the ones that have faults. The fact is that excommunication brings about no change. These people continue to make news and spew hatred. Doing seva is no punishment in my eyes either. I believe that along with exommunicating them, why not televise a live debate where we will destroy their arguments. Once they have no arguments then what can they say? If they spew anti-panthic hatredin the news, we should print in newspapers the truth about Dasam Granth and SGGS. These are just suggestions. 1)Is lying amount to facts. 2)is disowning his previous writings and writing against sikh ethos fact. 3)Is spewing venom on Nitnem, amrit sanchar fact. 4) is promotion of kala afghana ideology is sikhi. 5) is disowning SGGS ji sikhism. let us know dude i meant that what i said dilgeer said, was infact said by him. I'm not saying what he said was right, im saying that the fact that he said it is true! And you want to know the personalities of Jathedars? Here is a page from your book. Read this http://www.panthic.org/articles/5172- jathedar is mentioned at the end.

My question to you is, what does excommunication do? Kala-Afgana was excommunicated yet he is still in news. If not him, then his protege's. What does excommunication do? They still go on radio shows, appear in news papers, make headlines with their hatred. We need to figure out a new way to resolve this problem. 1)Is lying amount to facts. 2)is disowning his previous writings and writing against sikh ethos fact. 3)Is spewing venom on Nitnem, amrit sanchar fact. 4) is promotion of kala afghana ideology is sikhi. 5) is disowning SGGS ji sikhism. let us know dude i meant that what i said dilgeer said, was infact said by him. I'm not saying what he said was true, im saying that the fact that he said it is true! And you want to know the personalities of Jathedars? Here is a page from your book. Read this http://www.panthic.org/articles/5172- jathedar is mentioned at the end.

Read what I wrote, I said that Ragi Darshan Singh and Dilgeer are anti-panthic forces that spew hatred. Don't put words in my mouth.

Request to administrators Please look what this guy is doing. If he wants to discuss jathedars he should start a separate thread for that. he is spoiling this thread on purpose. Please take care of hima nd put him under moderation. Do you listen VS. This thread is about darsahn Ragi's blasphemy. Do not bring in otehr matters here. It is sangat that has initiated proceedings against ragi. jathedars are a media. i hope you understand that. Noreover before you proceed with your nonsense further furnish proofs against what you say in a separate thread. They are joined because this thread is about someone who is doing anti-panthic activities. And all i'm saying is that, the Jathedar's should be put on the same standard. My nonsense? Where are you from man? Where have you been living? Proofs for what, that the jathedars go to foreign countries and make money? It's a fact. Everyone knows that. It's common knowledge. Look at punishments given out my the Jathedars, and you will see that it is mostly to do seva. There's a fact. Statements made by dilgeer are all fact. And it is common knowledge that people still listen to Kala-afghana. THey give interviews on the radio. What facts do you need? You don't think that these Jathers have political motivations? Have you been around them? When they come to the U.S., they stay at the houses of sangat members. They were in Chicago from nov. 6-8 and went to a family friends house for lunch and dinner. The whole family heard Jatherdar Iqbal Singh on the phone saying that they come to the U.S. for their Lafaafe (bags of money) and that he will be back in India soon. I don't know why you think what i'm saying is nonsense. No disrespect but either you've been living under a rock or don't know much about the state of our panth. We have Baba's running wild, kids cutting their hair, doing drugs, people like Afgana and Darshan Singh spewing hatred, and our leaders are busy doing the work of politicians and Baba's who give them money. Admin Note: Veer "vsingh2479" ji, I am not going to delete your posts because I understand your anguish at the state of the Panth, which any devout Sikh would feel. However, I would request you to start a separate thread on this issue as the title of this particular thread is related to Ragi Darshan. We can continue to discuss the details you have mentioned in another new thread. Thanks

Keep in mind that this thread is not about jathedars. This thread is about blasphemy of darshan ragi. he said bad things and sangat have forced jathedar to punish him. jathedar is a medium for punishing this rogue. do not spoil this serious thread by bringing in inadvertent issues here. you can start another thread if you want. are you for real? spoil? Dude this has everything to do with it. The very leaders who want to persecute these anti-panthic forces are anti-panth themselves. They are thug politicians at best. I respect Guru Granth Sahib most of all and then the authority of Akal Takhat but the way things are now, the Jathedars are political or just in search of filling their pockets. The likes of Dilgeer have said that people shouldn't even go to these summons because the Jathedar's are criminals themselves. When those that prosecute you are criminals also, there is no point. It is irony at it's best. Why not bring up the root of the problem? Those making the decisions for the panth? Those that most of the sikh population looks to? Why shouldn't they be held on the same standard as everyone else? Who judges them? Who gives them Punishment? Who summons them? I agree that Ragi, Kala-Afgana, and Dilgeer are wrong and should be punished, but they are right when they say that these so called "leaders" are only prostituting our religion. What do they do? They go to countries in europe and the America's and make money. Their punishments are lame. Do jora seva (look after shoes) or bartan seva (wash utensils)? If that is punishment, then i do punishment every time I go to a gurdwara. They excommunicated Kala-Afgana and he still has followers and is still spewing hatred. They just want to make it seem like they are doing something. It seems that our panth is all about "ex-communicating" someone. Don't you understand that these people don't care? Ex-communication would work if we barred them from the land and no one spoke to them or listened to them. But neither those excommunicated or the sikh public 't care, they still give speeches and spread their hatred and people listen. If they put their time and effort towards proving these anti-panthic forces wrong, it would be better. They are trying to lure the sangat into thinking wrong things, then these leader's should put their efforts towards bringing sangat back on the right track.

To be completely honest, all of these people are theifs. The likes of Kala-Afghana, Darshan Singh, Dilgeer, they are all just out to make money. Even the Jatherdar's have no right to speak. They go to the dera's of Baba such as the Chicago Baba who has been caught in a motel with a woman and is now in a human smuggling case. So who are they dish out punishment? Just as recently as Nov. 8th, both Jatherdar Giani Gurbachan Singh and Jathedar Iqbal Singh were at his dera. They even said to sangat at other gurdwara's that their trip in the U.S. was due to the Bidaulat of the Baba. What kind of leaders do we have? The whole leadership of our panth is mud. They mix religion with politics, and in the end, they are all in the business of making money. When these assumed "Leaders" come to america, some stay at the houses of family friends. The things my friends and I have heard them say are despicable. They even admit that they only come to the U.S. for lafaafe (bags of money). In my eyes, the Jathedar's that summoned Ragi are just as bad as he is.

This Baba is pathetic, he alleges that he has no idea what is going on or the allegations when in India he is trying to threaten Gurmail Singh. He has relatives in U.S. who have told me this themselves. He is even trying to file a complaint and have Jathedar Akal Takhat Giana Gurbachan Singh do his bidding and call Gurmail Singh to Akal Takhat. We all know that these Jathedars only run after money, which I am sure the Baba will provide them with.