N30S1NGH

He also writes - i quote:

This is an interesting thread, the problem we have is the view of women in Sikhi. Out of the Puratan Sampardas you will never get a female Sant in the Nihangs, Sewapanthis or Udasis because of their view towards women and Maya. The Sants are found in the Nirmala deras mostly. Modern day groups have done alot to try and readdress this balance with alot more women coming to the forefron

I think that is a bit of a cop out.

Example is Basics of Sikhi, they struggle to get support of gurdwaras and it is started by a male (Jagraj Singh), yet he successfully done parchaar. I don't see these "patriarchs" stopping from doing anything.

If these "spiritually awake" women were truly above this "social conditioning", they would not bother with these "patriarchs" and so do parchaar regardless.

And what makes you think- they don't? From their side, they do but from wider perspective we would hope their parchar is gone mainstream but thats not likely the case. This is not my assessment , this is frank assessment from very learned samparda singh and researcher- kamalpreet singh who have spent many years studying old orders.

He writes in the thread following:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/16569-~~thread-dedicated-to-sikh-woman-parcharikhssants-~~/

It has been years since i posted anything on this site but I saw this topic and had to say something.

There are lots of females with great avasthas out there. I saw a few whilst in India this year. Alot of them are kept in the background because of the massoganist mindset people have in the punjab.

There was a Gursikh Bibi at Guru Ka Mahal in Amritsar doing seva at the shoe stand, you could tell from speaking to her that her jeevani was uch koti, sweet words nimarta and constant bhagti was amazing.

Best of all if you want to see women with great spiritual avasthas can i suggest that one takes a visit to Bhai Salo Ji's Toba in Amritsar, not more then a kilometer from Darbar Sahib. The Gurdwara is prodominantly by woman, their seva and bhagti is out of this world and you can feel the spiritual vibrations from them. I spoke to a few of the Gursikhs and was so moved that other then meeting Sant Giani Mohan Singh Ji Bhindrawalae these ladies were of the highest avasthas I met on this occaision.

Anyone gets a chance please go and see the simple Gurughar with no golak and the Toba itself.

We use the Punjabism and the patriachial card way too much to explain why there aren't there many women doing this or women doing that.

The reality is that the majority of women prefer to be led rather than lead and the ones that do not like to openly lead, they prefer to do things covertly or via proxy through the male.

That might be true when it comes to social conditioning goes but after spiritual awakening its totally different ball game as its free of influence from any kinda conditioning- its fully unconditioned open and receptive to higher reality. Whether we admit it or not there are enough females with spiritual awakening but cant overtly do parchar because of excessive patriarchal influence.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70272-thread-dedicated-to-sikh-woman-parcharikhssants/

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/16569-~~thread-dedicated-to-sikh-woman-parcharikhssants-~~/

Just to add further, lets see how would gyani parcharikhs (to name few- gyani kulvant singh ji, bhai ranjit singh ji dhandranwale, gyani pinderpal singh ji) would response if we start seeing too many wanna mastane sikhs in gurmat. They would keep many key gurmat sidhants in mind along with main non duality- address the issue on society general level to keep fine crystal balance by contextualizing many things like in the previous attachment- dane, divane and mastane, providing aspects, context than directly attacking them. This direct name and shame, pure witch haunt is new phenomena came with social media- among new holier than thou sikhs, never existed before in the mainstream nor in gyani parcharikh circle.

I dont know this singh..dont know his inner state of mind, but i would still give him benefit of doubt..you never know guru maharaj can bless anyone. History has glorious example of guru maharaj grace.

This singh was threatened, bullied and verbally attacked on social media, its about time we leave him alone and if you feel this is getting out of hand, approach the parcharikhs to address these issues on general society and maryada level. Anything more like smear or attacks against him on social media has imprints of fascism and none of anyone business.

If dhumma is jathedar or not is not my concern as other upsamparda such as bhai dya singh ji and bhai dharam singh ji including previous jathedar in taksal had multiple successors if we look at the lineage..so its never been issue before in the past up until only recently.

Thats beside the point, the point here it is dhumma is supporting/glorifying those violent cold blooded murderers/extremist who a) broke serious maryada of chabeel b) killed fellow innocent person , fellow sikh and injured other innocent sikhs in cold blood assassination plot which makes him just as implicit as those who carried the attacks. This is great wake up call for those who attempts to use deadly brute force violence to address non violent situations to step back and think that you are going against key gurmat sidhant- Dhaul Dharam Daya Ka Poot, you would hurt a innocent person, and you will torn whole family apart including small kids and wife, somebody son, sibling, father. husband.

What a complete savagery, what a contrast to see highest chivalry gurmat teaching enshrined directly in gurbani and comparing those teachings with practical emobiment of those teachings in so called some chela sikhs and so called jathedar of today. Unbelievable. Truth, integrity, earnesyt and embodiment of gurbani teaching is real sikhi rest is all maya and tribal- pendu non sense. This isnt urban vs penduness..this is straight Gurmat vs penduness...take your pick, one transforms you to param hans and gives you liberation and other send you back to fake anakh vicious cycle of ego and pride.

I love to see dhumma and his radical US chela's explain themselves to US Border services on what would they do if someone criticze them..these tribal pendu nut jobs be like we just hire Hit man to assassinate them. I wouldn't count on these nut jobs with baby sit my dogs let alone key to Sikh institution. What a clown show from top to bottom.

Whoever tried to assassinate baba ji failed miserably, have no idea on bounce back of dhandrianwale. As they say- almost-assassinated leader/head figure gets so much credibility than regular one. I think baba ji should capitalize on this moment to make a positive difference. I meant he is already well rounded individual to address all aspects in life- social, religious and spiritual. i am thinking in terms of capitalizing on this moment to do wider parchar out of comfort zone in beas hold and other parts in punjab.

He has only made two mistakes in my opinion. One was when he was young he allowed Matha Teking. But he rectified that mistake when he realised it was against Gurmat. The second mistake he made was to boycott the Sarbat Khalsa in order to appease the missionaries. That gave the heretics a sense of legitimacy in their own minds that "SEE! we're not the only ones who boycotted the Sarbat Khalsa"

We can create a different topic for this but quickly i m not big fan of matha taiking itself hell i am not even fan of glorifying any form or pointer at the expense of loosing main essence teaching as pointer meant to be pointing towards main essence teaching, but with that being said- matha taiking was never against gurmat its always been part and parcel of respect (consistent with gurbani) not worship , if we look at history pre singh sabha period. The whole thing against matha taiking notion came with revisionist singh sabha and with bhausaria came with out with their non sense- kn ee j erk reaction of ban this or ban that- simplistic rules for bunch of sheep and herd mentality.

Its time for baba ranjit singh ji to leave murky grounds in india and come abroad, take a breather, step back and reflect who could have launched assassination attempt on him. In this kalyug, things don't appear as they seem, trust only blunt and straight fwd people with integrity and truthfulness not this fake humble bs- speak sweetly upfront but stab at the back. I would rather trust a pathan with truth and integrity man of the word than these class clown circus show going in the panth.

Sure you can follow three or four if you like see it as pure divine expression (as ultimately thats whats happening - world is pure divine expression) rather than holding on to them from position of an individual- person will/ doership you know xyz name and form doing it. Also do remember Sri Guru Gobind Singh maharaj tat (essence) updesh back of the head. There are plenty of cautions in gurbani, this alone should shake all of us while engaging in them(yet de-attached) and give us rude awakening.

This cautionary vakh should be seen as guidance from satguru ji advising sikh not to get too caught up in pointers and wrap their head around them, follow what pointer pointing towards rather which is tat essence reality- NAAM.

ਸਭ ਕਰਮ ਫੋਕਟ ਜਾਨ ॥ ਸਭ ਧਰਮ ਨਿਹਫਲ ਮਾਨ ॥
सभ करम फोकट जान ॥ सभ धरम निहफल मान ॥
Know all the Karmas (actions) as useless, consider all the religious paths of no value.

ਬਿਨ ਏਕ ਨਾਮ ਅਧਾਰ ॥ ਸਭ ਕਰਮ ਭਰਮ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੨੦॥੫੦॥
बिन एक नाम अधार ॥ सभ करम भरम बिचार ॥२०॥५०॥
Without the prop of the only Name of the Lord, all the Karmas be considered as illusion.20.50.

This thread might be an help:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73019-mukti/

On a wider topic of suffering, we suffer due to separation from the source due to our personal will and ego, biggest anticode to suffering - accepting, contemplating, abiding in Hukam razai chalna, Nanak likhya naa. Satguru mahavakh.

Hukam razai chalna, Nanak likhya naal.- Being with eternal divine flow-source of life always unfolding moment to moment to moment. One of the ways to be flow with divine hakum/flow always unfolding which is beyond reach by our conditioned egoic mind psychological box by creating gap between mind and being consciousness (Surat). Surat (core being consciousness) need to feel wanting to know truth(Sat) nothing but the truth and has to open and receptive inwards turned (antar mukhta) towards its source - JOT SAROOP

By being -connecting to our real self consciousness (Real us JOT saroop). Once we BE THAT, not conceptually but actually BE Consciousness (Gur-Chaitan saroop mukh-inwards) only, hakum will spontaneously effortlessly appear in our meditative empty mind (pure consciousness) via direct pure perception (gyan parchand) insight and will be OUR guiding force intuitively at each moment and step of that way- all the great attributes, spontaneous action , great speech, humility, direct action, pure action, righteous action, defensive reaction, great intelligence come directly from Hakum-Gods will/pure consciousness- Jot saroop and beautiful thing about it is knowingness intuitively and its originally unmodified/uncontaminated by personal will when personal will-ego is gone to sleep (thoughts/mind/sense perceptions) during contemplation and meditation

there are muslims doing namaz , Hindus doing puja, baajigars doing tricks, another getting his goat to do tricks , rich women getting help from maidservants, a portrait painter holding a painting of a Sikh elite , women folk doing housework , laughing , doing gidda...just a whole lot of living going on ...not necessarily anything sikh just located in Amritsar is all.

Thanks for pointing it out, i didnt notice more diversity in the picture..It even looks better when everyone is living in harmony including sikh woman.

Great painting so colorful , kinda reminds me Guru nanak dev maharaj eternal divine garden full of unique flowers. Notice how life in the painting is full in harmony without any conflicts.

It is seriously challenges all this pseudo bhausaria victorian abrahamic black and white, fearmongering narrative been pushed fwd out in west by ultra orthodox bunch super imposing projecting themselves on rest of bigger panth. Also big thanks to http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/mainpage.jsp for their amazing seva for perserving old puratan sikhi, puratan sikhi text /puratan pictures relics speaks for itself.

"one who looks upon pleasure and pain as the same, O nanak, is not affected by sin or virtue."

Good topic, one can truly understand the great vak from gurbani from advait gyan perspective (deep gyan meditation) where everything(any thought or experience/perception) which is rising in surat(consciousness) is seen as-advait non dual truth. In other words, objectified reality does not exist in that state.

Above gurbani mahavak is not mere conceptual philosophical statement , its direct experiential meditative state.

I was walking home when I found MANJIT WEEKLY newspaper on the street with Gurbani on it and people were stepping on it, so I picked it up.

I think newspapers should stop printing Gurbani because no one knows what people end up doing with the newspaper.

What do you guys think, is it okay to print?

Punjabis are hell bent destroying their own enrich heritage, sanctity all in name of anakh(false pride) and jeed(stubbornness). One should look at various different spiritual cultures - how much respect they have for their traditions. I was at first nation native relic shop in bc, amount of care and proper etiquette they have- preserving, presenting, representing their tradition is amazing.

All great advise in above posts, mine would be bit unconventional in that sense. I would say if you can... have a pet dog, use his loyalty/faith/unconditional love shown towards the master(in this case you) every day- as constant reminder of your loyalty/faith towards Vahiguru. If you are open and receptive towards life, many times pet can give us practical/ direct experience/example/relations of unconditional love, faith, loyalty than humans. I believe in gurbani, dog example is given as metaphor for its loyalty, obedience, unconditional love and faith.