humgareeb

This is NOT true information and has been verified with the Sevadars at the school. They have never allowed any interfaith marriage at the school, and have no such wedding booked for this weekend. If you have any doubt come down and see for yourself.

Clearly your WikiLeaks aren't working correctly.. 

Both methods are parvaan. Doing loudly first and listening to it will increase your concentration, otherwise there is danger of you start doing it with repetation, but because you know it, you won't necessarily listen to it, but just complete it for the sake of doing it in auto-mode.

With regards to the granthi, you should have asked him, whats the need for eating food everyday? Once you have eaten it once, you know what it tastes like. In the same way gurbani is the food for our soul. Doing nitnem everyday is required to constantly remind our forgetfull mind of gurus message and feeds the soul.

prabh baanee sabadh subhaakhiaa ||

The Word of God's Bani, and His Shabad, are the best utterances.

gaavahu sunahu parrahu nith bhaaee gur poorai thoo raakhiaa || rehaao ||

So constantly sing them, listen to them, and read them, O Siblings of Destiny, and the Perfect Guru shall save you. ||Pause||

To celebrate Vaisakhi and commemorate the Amritsar Massacre that set alight the flames of justice in the panth and gave birth to the dharam yudh morcha. Akhand Kirtani Jatha UK invites you to join sangat from all over the world for the 19th Annual International Akhand Kirtan Smagam.

Many Kirtani Jathas and sevadaars from around the world will be taking part in kirtan seva. Giani Pinderpal Singh (Kathakaar) will also be attending the smagam.

All programs at: Sri Guru Singh Sahba Gurdwara, Princess Street, Derby, DE23 8NT

Monday 14th April - Wednesday 16th April 2014:
Sri Akhand Patth Sahib: 10am Arambh - 5.30pm Bhog followed by:
Rehras Sahib followed by Akhand Kirtan: 5.30pm-9pm

Thursday 17th April 2014:
Asa Di Vaar Kirtan: 6-10am
Rehras Sahib & Akhand Kirtan: 5.30PM-9pm

Friday 18th April 2014:
Asa Di Vaar Kirtan: 6-10am
Rehras Sahib & Akhand Kirtan: 5.30PM-9pm

Saturday 19th April 2014:
Asa Di Vaar Kirtan: 6-10am
Akhand Kirtan: 7.30pm-12am

Sunday 20th April 2014:
Akhand Kirtan: 8am-11am followed by Mahan Panthic Conference
Reansabai Keertan: 6:00pm-5:00am

Other Information

• Please note Amrit Sanchar on Saturday 19th April 5PM 

• Accommodation has been arranged for the whole Smagam. Bibian accommodation has been specially arranged. For further details, contact Bhai Bhupinder Singh on 07719225401
• Bibiaa and family accommodation will be catered for contact Bh. Bhupinder Singh
• Special exhibitions will be on display in National Sikh Museum covering history from the Guru Khalsa Panths, the 1978 Shaheedi Saka, Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh and the ghadar movement

- Amrit Sanchar Information -
- Saturday 19th April 5PM -

• Wear 5 Kakaars, including Keski and Dastaar. The colours for Keski and Dastaar are Blue, Black, Basanti/Orange and White.
• Wear Gurmukhi Baana. Males should not wear Pajaami while females should wear Pajaami. Bibiyaan who wear a suit, must ensure that the suit is plain and loose.
• Kirpan must be made of Sarbloh and held in Gaatra.
• Kachhera must be White only 

• Karra must be made of Sarbloh
• All Abhilaakhis must come after Body & Kesh Ishnaan, please ensure Dastar and Bana are 'sucha'.
• 5 Kakaars Will be provided as free Seva if needed
• Note – It is strongly advised all New Abhilaakhis should do 2 hours Mool Mantra Jaap & 7 Baniaa in preparation for Amrit. (Ideally starting months before)
• All Abhilaakhis should sit and listen to the Akhand Paath Sahib & attend the Keertan Divans

I'm sure guru sahib wrote bani for this - so commercialied nowadays!

Baba Ji was in Singh Sabha Derby on Sunday. He did katha and veechar Live on Sangat TV from there and was then present in the Q&A session which they have from 4-5.30pm.

I suppose people might start saying now that he has gone all "missionary" because he was meeting with AKJ UK reps there.. lol

Apprently he is going to be in Kenya from 10-19 Nov.

Then the maryada should be changed to say jhatka is allowed, because at the moment it only says kuttha, which is defined as killing in SGGS which the jot of 10 gurus.

Plus other quotes I have shown you also lead one to believe that one shouldn't kill for pleasure of your rasna.. Unless u think SGGS is different from guru Gobind Singh?

Can you show me where guru sahib has said what the 4 bujjer kurehits are? Can you show me where guru sahib has given order to keep panj kakkar rehit? The Khalsa rehit does not just come from SGGS, it comes from a combination of SGGS, Dasam, sarb loh and puratan rehitnamas uttered by the mouth of Guru Gobind Singh Ji themselves. Many other historical Granths also talk about jhatka maryada, in the past I have posted pangtia from SGGS ji and other sources in support of jhatka but will no longer do this as it is obvious people will still stick to thier pre-conceived notions of what is right and what is wrong, there's nothing wrong with that as long as you have enough gyan to accept the opposite side of the argument as well and realise it's all down to personal preference and suitability. The recent topic on animal slaughter was a good balanced debate. For those who wish to do serious khoj then there is plenty of material available from both sides, all you have to do is research for yourself.

Fateh

How many maryadas did guru Gobind Singh administer? More than one?

Amrit sanchar sanskar amrit is same derived from naam amrit, naam amrit is same, bhramgyan amrit is same but rehat/maryadas are different different. If you have issue with unity within diversity, you can take it up to panj takths including budda dal who have different different maryada.

Where has guru sahib said this? I've shown you where SGGS talks against

Instead of trying to adjust your own budhi to try and accept that mahraj gave the Khalsa a choice on whether they eat jhatka or not you have instead decided to question the actions of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?!

There are many nihang singhs who accept the maryada of jatkha, are present themselves at jorh mele when jatkha is performed but as a personal choice do not eat meat. Here is a quote from baba Joginder Singh ji of budda dal raqba:

Those who wish to eat meat should eat Jhatka which gears individuals towards warfare. Those Sikhs who just wish to perform selfless service and meditate should avoid meat and maintain a very simple diet. There is no obligation on anyone to eat meat, one should never eat khulla mass. (Jathedar Baba Joginder Singh, Oral Interview July 2006).

I think baba ji's quote and the two I put up earlier from Giani thakur Singh ji sum up overall who jhatka is for. Unfortunately many times as Giani ji says in his katha people abuse the process of jhatka just to satisfy their tongue. Some people who have no desire of ever serving in dharam yudh go to places like hazoor sahib or Nihang dals just so they can eat meat afterwards. Or you will get someone who starts of by claiming the don't want or need to take Amrit and keep kes and be shaster dhari because they are just interested in doing simran and are peaceful soul who sees god everywhere and are not fighting type. After not being able to control their senses and more importantly the desire of their tongue they suddenly realise they are a yodah who can't wait for the next dharam yudh to start and use this as a reason to start eating meat.

A person needs to be honest with themselves and not try to use maryada given especially to the fauj as an excuse to satisfy the flavour of their tongue.

Then should Guru gobind singh have had 2 separate amrit snachars? one for the khalsa and one for Nihangs?

Bit silly don't you think?

Sant "sipahi" has many forms outer/ esoteric forms- sipahi in form of political activist, journalist who just uses shabdvali to subdue the oppressor, leader-jathedar, human right activist, freedom fighter, internal sipahi in form of bibeka who has killed all the demons/ desires and off course outer sipahi- who has practiced martial traditions and upheld and praticised (bhagti in form of shakti) deep philosophical/symbolism of sri dasam guru granth.

We cannot ignore one form over another.

Old traditional sikhi is quite diverse as its four attributes of sikhi beautifully represented (bhagti-nine forms,shabad surat-many meditation techniques/kriyas,advait-gyan and shakti) blended together beautifully* while holding sri guru granth sahib- shabad guru being central theme of all- one can cross platform anytime to be all in one or focus on each aspect of sikh there are no hard or fast rule.

Nihang order (khastri sant-sipahi warrior), nirmale/taksal order (saint-scholars - sipahi in their own right to contemplate on shabad gyan), sevapanthis order - kar seva (sant-scholar/sipahi in form of seva) and udasi order (asectic shabad surat yogic order- yogi sant order if needed its proven in history can provide shaheediya).

*Many nihangs would learn from nirmale, taksal-upsamparda of nirmale, udasi, sevapanthis and vice versa.

What underpins all four orders is sri guru gobind singh -Khalsa inner state of individual- who have tasted atam ras and is enlighten one:

Sri sarbloh granth

Atam Ras Neh Jannehi Sio Haie Khalsa Dev,

Prab Meh Mo Meh Tas Meh Ranchak Naeh Bhaiv ||

The one who has entered the sphere of atma(self), he alone is worthy of the title of the khalsa, he becomes one with me the guru and ultimately God.There is no difference.

Here Guru Gobind singh ji directly explains Khalsa.

"The Khalsa is my exceptional Image,

In the Khalsa ever resides my Spirit.

The Khalsa is my Beloved and Venerable Master,

The Khalsa is my divine Protector.

The Khalsa is my Father and Mother,

The Khalsa is my body and soul.

The Khalsa is embodiment of true and perfect Guru.

The Khalsa is my Gallant and Knightly friend.

I have stated the truth without an iota of misconstruction.

God and Guru Nanak are to this my witnesses."

Guru Gobind Singh, Sarb Loh Granth, (MS), 519-526.

In response to gurbani quotes provided. see- post below.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/69992-topic-about-meat/?p=566240

Isn't it the case that evenry sikh should aspire to be a sant-siphai (saint-solider) so why would there be one rule for one and another for someone else?

Guru Gobind Singh created the khalsa in order to make one type of sikh. Yes - there are different jathebanids etc, which ultimately shoudn't be the case, but it's absurd to say that one type of sikh can eat meat and another can't.

At the end of the day meat is meat whether you jhatka it, halaal it, kuttha it... and IMHO there is no referece to pro-meat in SGGS ji, see my earlier post.

Giani thakur Singh ji sums up jhatka and who should eat it perfectly in part 25 of Asa di vaar viakhiya which can be found on gurmatveechar.com.

Quotes from Giani ji :
“Today people have changed traditions in order to please the desire of the tongue and eat other forms of meat from shops etc...Jhatka was a special tradition that was only for the soldiers of the Guru to practise, not normal householder Sikhs.” (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di // Viakhya Part 25)

"Nihang Singhs eat Jhatka meat because of their traditions. The Guru allowed this tradition of Jhatka to be practised within his army and by his soldiers; it was not for civilians to eat. Maharaj said to them that if need be you may Jhatka an animal and eat it, not just goats or chickens but any animal you may find in the jungle. The Nihang Singhs of today still follow this tradition. When performing Jhatka on a goat, first the goat is bathed, then Japji Sahib and Chandi Di // are read. One Singh stands by the head of the goat and upon the final lines of Chandi Di // being read, ‘Those who sing this divine ballad will be liberated from the realm of life and death’, at this moment the goat is decapitated with one blow and the soul of the goat is liberated. The goat itself lowers its head to receive salvation”. (Giani Thakur Singh, Asa Di // Viakhya Part 25)

I heard that they have reached 1 million, but the more the merrier

An interesting reply I came across in regards to this issue:

Just because one committee member says one thing doesn't make it the real reason. It could be his personal opinion..

Some people just need to chill and see the bigger picture..

That's what it was all about.. A picture.. And then wen they were begining to look stupid, they turned it into, it not about the pic, but the principle that the Sangat should be consulted before taking major decisions.. Lol, seriously, if they did that for everything, they would waste a lot of time asking 10,000 members.

Plus the reality is that they didn't remove the pic altogether, they displayed it in the library, as they had been told it was a health and safety issue as it was blocking the glass elevator..

Some people just need to find something better to do on a Friday evening, than protest about silly things. Suppose the Sangat sitting there reciting jaap wasn't a a whole waste of time tho..

Anyway, the comittee have now agreed to put it back up in the main foyer, but in different place due to the health and safety issue, but apparently some protestors still aint happy, they want it back in the same place... True warriors..

you are himat sohi's biggest deffender on this site.

Sohi, Daljit and that randawa are just power and money hungry fools , they dont give a monkeys about sikhi

Neither does Malhi, that's where all the drugs started from.. Get your priorities right..

Apparently the comittee removed a pic of guru sahib and sahibzaday in order to move to another location because it was causing obstruction to the lift.

People started protesting coz thu took it down from its original location. Seriously? There must be more exciting things to protest about. What a waste of time.. So what if they are moving it?

Looks like another feeble attempt from the opposition comittee to stir more trouble, for their own ego gain..

This is the reason our Panth is in the state it is. Can you imagine what the police are thinking? There 300 people protesting because of picture being moved.. What's next the colour of the toilet paper.. ?Get real people..

Serious gupt is known to spread hatred between the Sikh community...

Get my point?

I am not aware of that, can you please more about this rehat? What was it called? The only thing i am aware of the first time keski was called 5th kakar or changed into kakar was in panch khalsa divan it was part of their "thirteen reforms" led by teja singh bhausaria. Please read more about them: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/32348-danger-of-bhausaria-mindset-in-the-panth/ and http://www.thesikhencyclopedia.com/sikh-political-institutions-and-movements/bhasaur-singh-sabha

Thirteen reforms of teja singh bhausaria

I am not here to give you a history lesson - but if you go back and look at the history pre-1940's akal takhat 5 kakkar included the keski. You aren;t going to believe anything I say so it is better you go and do your own research.

You may want start here

S. Shamsher Singh Ashok who has been an active member of the Singh Sabha movement and an erstwhile Research Scholar of the S.G.P.C., while discussing the prevalence of the use of 'keski', states: '...and, consequently in the Amrit-Parchaar at the Akal Takht Sahib, this was a precondition even for ladies before they could be baptized there. Any woman who was not prepared to wear Keskiwas not baptized. This practice continued even after the end of the Gurdwara movement. Relaxation was made only when Giani Gurmukh Singh Musafir became the Jathedar of the Akal Takht.'23

:

Also those 13 reforms, Bhai Sahib probably only supported (not changed) about 2 of those, all the others were against gurmat and the reason bhai sahib went his own way and also why Bhasauria got excommunicated, whereas Bhai Sahib was given the Son-ChirRi of the panth and the only person to have been given hukamnaamay siropay from all the takhts. Slight difference.

I knew it was basuria influenced.Its still going on today.Like the chaupi sahib at the harimandar sahib.Its the shortened version.

This is taken from nihang Singh.org

" Bhai Randhir Singh was a highly respected Sikh saint and reformist during the twentieth century whose views were largely influenced by Bhasauria due to the strong relationship the two held for many years. Eventually Bhai Randhir Singh broke ties with Bhasauria once the latter had been excommunicated from the Sikh community after committing many blasphemies. However, some of his ideas continued to resemble those of Bhasauria who had managed to dramatically change the ideological foundations of the Sikh tradition with long standing consequences."

So obviously he would have said keski was kakar because he was influenced by teja singh

When you take quotes from silly websites then obviously it makes you look like you have no idea what on earth you are on about.

Here is a letter from Bhai Sahib when he returned from Jail during which Bhasaria was excomminctaed:

After Bhai Sahib’s release, Babu Teja Singh tried to meet his old friend after twenty years and came to his house to resurrect their old friendship. Bhai Sahib was not there at that moment. When he came to know later of Babu Ji’s visit, Bhai Sahib wrote him a letter politely declining to meet him. The contents of the letter are very moving and reveal the true personality of Bhai Sahib and his unshakable and abiding faith in the Sikh tenets, values and traditions. It is therefore considered worthwhile to reproduce the English translation of the same below:

“Babu Teja Singh ji, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

You, dear Sir, have come to see this humble servant of the Panth after one fifth of a century, i.e., 20 years. I was no less eager to have the chance of meeting with you and talking together. But I was deeply pained when I learnt that you have been excommunicated from the Panth by a congregation at Sri Akal Takht.

What is even more distressing, you continue to disregard the authority of the Panth. It is now my request that you should be obedient to the Command of the Guru Panth and return to its shelter. Then we shall meet like brothers. It is my hope that you will accede to my request and thereby please the hearts of all of us. I am confident that you will not defy the Guru Panth and will abide by the tradition coming down through generations.

Your sincere well wisher

Randhir Singh”

Thus, no personal relationship would deflect Bhai Sahib from obeying in letter and spirit the edicts of the Guru Panth issued from Sri Akal Takht Sahib (the Sikhs highest seat of authority).

It is a misconception that Bhai Sahib was under the influence of Bhasauria. When Bhasuaria started doing manmant Bhai Sahib went his own way.

jathedar puran ji states that Dasam Granth is a scared scripture and akj has full faith in it.Then who are other splinter groups to state that there are doubtful parts in it.I hope you understand the meaning of palusible.They have used this word in their statment. Refer dictionary before you waste your time further.That shows evil intention of akj.org

Tell them since they do not beleive in dasam bani they need to take off their kirpans as these shashter are the gift from dasam bani only.

The statement says 'seems to be plausible', not just plausible but until such time the Panth doesn't make a decision, they will abide by whatever Akal takht decides.

Akal takht has also said that people should do kintu and discuss such topics, but you are still doing so.. You have failed to answer any of my other questions properly and keep on getting hung up on this point.. The discussion is not going anywhere, I have am said all I have to say..

Vjkk vjkf!

To each their own.

My kes is a kakaar and keski is what covers my kakaar.

Sure - if that makes sense to you. :D

Why wasn't this implemented by the taksal or nihang singhs?

So I don't need to keep my hair but a keski?

Your hair is not something you need to keep, it is something that is already given to you by God when you are born. When you are baptised 5 kakkar are given to you, you cannot be given hair, as that you already have this. All the other kakkars are external items. Also, if you cut your hair after taking amirt, it is considered a bujjar kuhreit, where as if any other kakkars are separated from your body, it is not a bujjar kuhreit. So the question is why is hair treated differently to the others?

Most of women in Taksal and Nihung dals also wear keski, but why they don;t believe in it as a kakkar, I don't know.

So basically what is going on is that because of few pictures found online, we trying to judge the whole issue. That is exactly like judging the whole Sardar community just because someone saw turban guy in drunken state or eating Barkha on streets (common sight in India). Bit childish to per-judge like that.

What individuals do or does is action of their own (thread topic issue, they didn't do major wrong). If someone has issues with guru di bani, Sri dasam Granth then be a man and stand your ground rather than hiding and start issuing total confused press releases. Ok, let's say they have such issues in uk pertaining to Prakash of gurus bani but what about America? There are no such issues to this date but then why no such releases since infamous akj.org is based in America too. Such people not only fool them-self but try to take giddar cover by even cropping other issues irrelevant to core issues, they do this only wishing to hide.

Aka.org does not represent the whole jatha. They are a splinter group who started the rift within once a united jatha. Imagine tomorrow this forum website started saying that they are the official voice of Sikhs around globe. What Bhai randhir Singh jee started and what we have today... Jameen asmaan da farak. same goes with taksal.

Swallow our own ego and let's not carry away but simply ask and answer (y)ourself a question. Do you believe in DG as whole? Answer is either yes or no, there is no answer starts with "yes, but...."

Yes I do. My point is that when people start interpreting things different ways, it causes rifts..

Sorry to be off topic but Humgareeb said that its madatory to wear a keski.Where is this written?

I'm asking because this is the first I have ever heard of this.

Bhul chukh Maaf karo if I posted anything wrong.

Prior to 1930/40s this was the rehat given in amrit sanchars at Akal takht, it was changed by the then Jathedar. This was same for women and men.