11Gurus1Jot

the whole sikh kaum is being run by the traitor Indian governement and this is mainly because we don't have our own intelligence our own MOSAD - we will be lost till we have our infrastrucuture to control such issues.

Correct !!!

Anyway, once we have PM, renewed/reformed anandpur sahib resolution and full legal structure to govern then people will take us seriously, at this moment we are laughing stock, don't even deserve to run a banana republic let alone country...thanks to our curropt pendu pot belly leaders..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Correct !!!

There is tons more to do

Correct !!!

In my opinion we need all to work together, youths, elders including our sisters and mothers.

Correct !!!

Ardaas !!!

Thanks for adding the poster Singh Ji !!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Below are the dates and Gurdware for Sant Baba Baljit Singh Ji Khalsa's current UK tour

PLEASE SEE THE PRINTED POSTER IN THE POST BELOW!

• 18 May 6.30pm-8.30pm Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Newcastle
  
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• 19 May 6.30pm-8.30pm Gurdwara Khalsa Mera Roop Hai Khaas, Southsheilds
  
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• 20 May 10.30am-12midday Gurdwara Singh Sabha Bradford
  
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• 20 May 6.30pm-8.30pm Gurdwara Sikh Temple, Chapel town Leeds
  
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• 21 May 6.30pm-8pm Gurdwara Sahib Leamington Spa
  
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• 22 May 7pm-8.30pm Guru Nanak Gurdwara High Street Smethwick
  
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• 23 May 7.30pm 9pm Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Gurdwara Leicester
  
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• 24 May 7pm - 8.30pm Gurdwara Baba Sang Ji Smethwick
  
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• 26 May 7.15pm - 9pm Gurdwara Singh Sabha Park Avenue Southall
  
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• 27 May 10am-11am Gurdwara Singh Sabha Slough
  
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• 27 May 12pm-1.30pm Gurdwara Ramgharia Slough
  
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• 27 May 3pm-4pm Mata Sahib Kaur Academy Ilford
  
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• 27 May 7pm-8.30pm Gurdwara Karamsar, Ilford
  
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• 28 May 6.30pm-8pm Sikh Missionary Society Southall
  
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• 29 May 6.30pm8pm Guru Nanak Gurdwara Stratford Road South Birmingham
  

Please don't miss it Sadh Sangat Ji - Please be there!!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

It's a shame this family, who want you to trim your beard, weren't born 300 years ago. Only then they could have followed Aurangzeb, he liked Sikhs to trim their beard too. This girl's family would have got on like a house on firm with Aurangzeb, they would have both been in bliss convincing or forcing Sikhs to trim their beards!

Take them down to the nearest tram station, the site of the 'tram lines' will send them loopy !!!

These Mcleodian scholars are nothing but enemies of the Sikhs. Before the Kala Afghani threat started, it was these Mcleodian scholars who were attacking at the very root of Sikh beliefs. One needs to be aware of these people.

We certainly do need to be aware of them. Sometimes we critizise Sikhs for being 'Internet Warriors'. However, I think, in this IT age we need 'Internet Warriors'. Our Sikh 'Internet Warriors' may be doing a greater seva than we know. There's plenty of anti-Sikh 'Internet Warriors' out there, so why can't we have our Gurmukh Piyare Internet Warriors out there too, to do battle with these anit-Sikh Idiots !!!

So can anyone confirm if this letter authentic or not?

It would be nice to have it confirmed, wouldn't it.

Great Post Qaye !!! Nice to see somebody on this forum who actually likes Amritdharis and gives Amritdharis the same compassion and forgiveness they would give to all the rest of the people on this planet !

It only takes one anti-Sikh person to critizise an Amritdhari on this forum and we all join in. This poster (Qaye) has the first quality required in being an Amritdhari- Compassion (daya). Nice to see somebody giving out some warmth and forgiveness on this forum to an Amritdhari rather than spittiing out venom, poison, anger, and fury towards any Amritdhari who falls in one of the aspects of being a Sikh!!!

Then you should have no problem accepting that Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj and Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj are one and the same. Gurbani tells us there is no difference between Gurus.

Perfect post for this thread! Sums the truth up nicely!!

What the hell

Care to expand?

Yes, an Amritdhari is not supposed to be in Moh, and all the people who say it should be Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji first are totally correct! The love you have for your partner in marraige and the love you have for Guru Ji are two different types of love. When the 10 Gurus were on this earth women loved the 10 Gurus as their Gurus, and the same women loved their husbands as their husbands. The two types of love were different and never got mixed up!!

But the fact still remains that there is still no caste for any Amritdhari, it goes when they take Amrit. So how can anybody say that one Amritdhari cannot marry another Amritdhari because the two Amritdharis are of different caste? How can two Amritdharis be of a different caste, when they have no caste?

This Amritdhari girl's parents could have many reasons why this girl should not marry the Amritdhari man, and all those reasons could be valid. The only excuse that could not be valid is if the parents say the boy is not ofthe same caste. As then they would be saying that the Guru's Amrit is not real and does not work in that it does not remove caste!!!

You are right, you cannot call anyone Amritdhari who has a lot of moh. However, can you call anyone Amritdhari who acknowledges caste? Do you believe in caste?

why is this letter not on the normal page where all the other panjabi letters are at present?

this could be to fool sikhs - watch out - all letters are supposed to be on here:

http://sangharshdasach.com/home.php

I think ks55 makes a very very valid point. I am not saying the letter is not from Bhai Balwant Singh Ji but we should maybe read the letters from only a few selected and reliable Sikh Websites! Great Point by ks55 !!

Many of the sensible reasons people have put in the post are perfectly correct. i.e. you may be too young to get married yet, or there maybe other reasons why your parents don't want you to get married to anyone yet.

However, caste should never be an issue for Amritdharis as they have no caste. Caste is wiped out when somebody takes Amrit !!!

One thing I will ask every male posting on this thread. Would you like to have an arranged marriage with this young lady if she had no physical relationship with this young man at all, but, always thought of him for the rest of her life, whilst she was married to you, as a result of being 'fixed up' with you because you were the same Caste? It's not just about this young lady, it's about the man she will marry if she doesn't marry this man. Does that 'other' man deserve to be married to a lady who loved another man more than him? If she leaves this man and marries a man her parents pick in later years then that is great, if, she forgets this man, and learns to love the new man. However, if she never forgets this man, and never learns to love the other man, is it fair on that 'other' man?

Anybody care to answer?

Definitely not. It may seem that the 'Rajoana Topic' is yesterday's news but those with dardh for Sikhi and our homeland are still keeping themselves abreast of issues regarding Bhai Sahib.

Satbachan !!!

Anyway, these issues are too complex for the likes of us and are the preserve of a greater calibre of man than I will ever be. Our job is to follow and if there is no one amongst men who will provide that leadership then, like I said before, our Guru is always there for us.

Absolutely right! Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj is always there for us. Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana can provide that leadership. We should all work hard to get him out of prison, and not just forget about what he did for the nation. I probably sound a bit 'last month' mentioning Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana. However, if I had told everyone on the 29th March 2012 that Bhai Balwant Singh Rojoana was just a fad, for a month, nobody would have believed me. Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana has given us 17 years of his life, and counting. Question is, how much time can we now give to campaign for the release of Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana and all the other prisoners of conscience rotting in India's jails??

I think the parents of the young girl who started this thread are right. As Sikhs, we should believe in caste, because that's how we get to kiss the Brahmin's feet and become their slave, by following their rule of caste. If we didn't follow caste we would not be putting the Brahmin above our Gurus, who said don't follow caste, and you know we have to keep the Brahmin above the Gurus, don't you?

We should totally ignore the fact that our 11 Gurus say ignore caste. We should also ignore the fact that the Panj Piyare were of different castes, because we only call it a Khalsa Brotherhood, but really we believe that the Khalsa Brotherhood does not exist because you cannot have a brotherhood, brothers, of different castes. What was Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj thinking of? We know better don't we?

Further more, when Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj said that taking Amrit wipes out your caste, then we know better than Guru Ji don't we? We know that the Brahmin's caste system is stronger than Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Amrit, and therefore the Brahmin's caste remains even when somebody takes Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Amrit, don't we? We know that even though the young woman and man mentioned in this post, who have both taken Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Amrit, are actually still in separate castes and Guru Ji's Amrit did not wipe their caste out at all did it?

We must remember to cup the Brahmin Man's feet gently in our hands before we kiss them in order to acknowledge the caste system that they, the Brahmin Man started, shouldn't we?

Will anybody listen?

I'll be frank (possibly more than I should be there you go) but I personally I find the numerous school of thoughts, the sampradhiyas, the jathebandiya to be completely overwhelming. Nevermind about wondering whether Sikhi is the right way (it is, if Guru Granth Sahib Ji is your only guide - this much I do know) but which sub-group within Sikhi espouses the true way as prescribed by our Gurus? Which form of Sikhi was their ideal vision and the one I should be following today? A person worries whether they'll be punished for following a certain branch of Sikhi by overlooking another branch of the faith.

Anyway, I am glad Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Dasme Paatshah's Gurbani is the resolute, irremovable truth and no matter how my mind flounders and thrashes, I can always find solace in the 'charan' of our Guru.

Totally agree with you !!! It's almost like there's no option for anybody to follow Sikhi, but instead, only a group within Sikhi can be followed. I think Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana has given us the answer, we all need to follow and support the Akaal Takht, under one Nishan Sahib!

From being one of the toughest people on the planet we have become one of the softest. We are too frightened to even discuss (and especially debate) what the true path and Maryada is as prescribed by our Gurus! Everytime somebody asks these questions, or tries to question a sampradhiya's or jathebandi's Maryada, or even ask when the Maryada was introduced, i.e. was it after the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj we are told not to start any trouble and just let everyone follow what they are happy with. I know Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaaj built in all that the 9 Gurus espoused before him into his final Maryada, and gave us our Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our only final Guru for eternity. I know that the Nihangs followed Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Maryada, the Sikhs under Bhai Mani Singh also did, the learned Sikhs under Baba Deep Singh did too, so did the Singhs at Hazoor Sahib. I do think, however, that we need to question the sampradhiya's or jathebandi's that started long after Guru Gobind Singh Ji return to Sachkand, and especially question the Maryada those later sampradhiya's or jathebandi's have added or taken away from that left for us all by the 10 Gurus. Until we are allowed to question those additions and ommissions Sikhs will never progress as then these knew sampradhiya's or jathebandi's will not only never have to explain what they have added or omitted to 10 Guru's Maryada, they will be able to keep it secret from the unsuspecting new or unlearned Sikhs they drag into their sampradhiya's or jathebandi's

Hi my names Jas, am i doing it right??

I'm not sure, can anybody else help us? Is Jas doing it right??

bs???????

ChuckSinghNorris Ji, Singh135 Ji, and Guptunknown Ji,

Thanks for the posts. Looks like we'll never get a formal answer from India.

Maybe this is something Sikhs could campaign for. I think like all 3 of you have said, it's not about making it a holy city, it's about not making it an unholy city or place of many vices and human misery!

Good points all 3 of you, I am a bit clearer on the subject following your posts!

Deos anybody know what reasons India have given for not giving Amritsar 'holy city' status.

There are Cities in India which have 'holy states' and therefore the selling of Alcohol, cigarettes and drugs is prohibited in those cities.

However, despite Sikhs asking on many occassions for Amritsar to be given 'holy city' states, the Indian Government does the opposite and keeps on giving more licences for Shops to sell Alcohol and Cigarettes in Amritstar.

Does anybody know what reason India has given for issuing so many licenses to sell Alcohol and cigarettes in Amritsar, whilst giving other cities 'holy' status?

AYfimn, ikrp krky, ies qryf nUM 'vwts hypinMg' PwVm ivc rKo ] mov nw kro]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw ] vwihgurU jI kI Piqh ]

jy AYfimn nUM koeI ienkur nhIN qW mY socdw sIN ky AsIN swry pMjwbIN ivc gl krIAy ]

mY socdw sIN ky ies qryf qy qusIN koeI veI toipk ilK skdy ho ]

jw, koeI veI Kbr veI qusIN dy skdy ho ]

jdoN ieh qryf bhuq lMbI hogI, AsIN nvIN SurU kr skdy ho ]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw ] vwihgurU jI kI Piqh ]

Why cant moneh help in making langar and do seva? Why is it ok for moneh to sweep up and do all the dirty jobs, but not serve langar?

Of all the Amritdharis I know and the Monas I know, I have found that Amritdharis do more of first list and less of the Second list, and Monas do more of the Second List and less of the first list.

Now before you start reading the two lists, I am not saying that either list is good or bad. However, you pull 10 random Western Born Amritdharis off the street and 10 western Born mona off the street and you will see a massive gap between the two groups with regards to fitting into each list.

So which list/group would you like lungar made from? If you think somebody's actions make no difference to what sort of person they are, then fine, but I believe actions define a person. I like my langar made by a person who is defined as good.

First List:

Follow Gurmat, read and understand Gurbani (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Dassam Granth, Bhai Gurdas de Vara, rehat maryada, wear the 5Ks out of respect for Guru Ji, keep hair given to them by God, wear the Turban given to them by their 10 Gurus, do nitnem in the morning, reharas evening and Kirtan Sohila at bedtime. Have Sikh knowledge or Sikh History and know Sikh Gurus names and figures like Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai Taru Singh Ji and endless other. Do kirtan, understand katha and the maryada of the Gurdwara and Kitchen at Gurdwara etc. Give Daswand/donation

Second List:

Drink alchohol, talk about women at the pub, eat meat, watch music videos asian and english with girls dressed like strippers. shave themselves, go to the hairdressing salon, swear. smoke, with nicotine in their nails, have sex before marriage or multiple partners (or try to have multiple partners and go on the pull). Try and move in a sexy way on the dance floor to attract the opposite sex. Pleasure themselves. Wear red strings on the wrist as it has black magic powers (sometimes with a Kara, usually without though). Not realise that Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and his four sons the Sahibzadeh, took Amrit and kept hair (like Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Suka and Metab Singh, and all the other heroes in our history)

Like I say, I'm not saying which list is good or bad, but I know which list fits in with more Amritdharis and which fits in with more Mona, and I know who I would like my langar made by (get a random sample if you don't believe me). I am not saying all Amritdharis will fit into the first list only and all Monas will fit into the second list only, but the general pattern will be there, we can't ignore that! And we can't just find a few exception and say - see!

By the way, any seva I do, I do for Amritdharis and Monas alike. However, I would not like to make some food for say the Gianis, Granthis, Kirtanees, Parcharaks, who go to great lengths to follow the first list and avoid the second list, for them to then eat food made by me, with my nicotine stained, meat filled, alcohol soaked, hair cutting, pleasure/lust indulging hands just because I felt I had every right to make them eat food from my hands!

I think we have to ask ourselves why Guru Gobind Singh Ji took Amrit himself? Totally agree with the posts above that say you cannot separate the inner rehat with the outer rehat. There is not one without the other (other wise Guru Gobind Singh Ji and his family and all the other great sikhs I have mentioned would not have bothered with outer rehat). You cannot separate Guru Granth and Guru Panth, You cannon separate the 10 Gurus from Gurbani, You cannot separate the inner rehat from outer rehat. It's all inter-linked as part of the whole great picture of Sikhi.

You could ask everyone their life style before they started cooking in Kitchen at the Gurdwara. However, that would just create arguements. The other way is people Promise to the Panj Pyare that they will follow the first list and avoid the second list, and wear the 5Ks at all times to prove that they are following the first list and avoiding the Second list. That way you never need to ask but know who is following which list. You have got to remember that most mona say that, one day, they will take Amrit, and when they do they too will not want to have food from people who still indulge in what they will have then left behind!

I think we have to ask ourselves why did Guru Gobind Singh Ji take Amrit himself?

Try and talk to children to prevent them from ever smoking. As you talk to them you will realise the damage you are doing to yourself by smoking and will automatically stop!

Pehnji

Finding a Sikh attractive and wanting to marry them is a very good thing but having romantic feelings for more than one person is not right.

Mokam Singh has summed it up nicely. Guru Nanak Dev Ji said Sikhs should live a family life. Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a family. Guru Nanak Dev Ji told us we can find God as married people with families. We do not need to disappear into the woods and mountains as celibate hermits to find God, we Sikhs can find God living as family units!

Marriage is a good/god thing. If no Sikhs got married, we would die out as a race, why would we want to kill the SIkh Race! A Sikh's aim in life is not to be a celibate hermit bachelor or Spinster, unless they actually want to be one! A Sikh should not to be a celibate hermit bachelor or Spinster out of guilt !!!

So as Mokam Singh says, if you are looking to get married, it's all good!