harsharan000

Dear Truth Jee, to this your line written above, if you do not mind, let us see it from the sikhee point of view. We all very well know that the Bani says: Sach Khand vasay Nirankar. So you see, first of all, in Sach Khand there are no saints, no Gurmukhs, no Guru Sahibans ..... only Ik Oankar, Satnam, Wahiguru Akal Purukh. And so whenever He has come at our level, He has always been a wise, a perfect noble, humble and truthful loving being ...if not, just look at any of our Guru Sahibans, or the other Bhagat Jan mentioned in the Bani Maybe, you are reffering to those frauds, dongee babas, who like snakes change their attire, but their venom of agyanta is very much present in them. Their is a famous saying which goes as follows :even if a monkey is dressed in silk, it remains a monkey .... So you see, it is not the outer conditions or looks of people in general we have to take in account to judge them, but if they themselves practice and inspire others, that eternal Truth, which you mention in your post above, which is none other dyeing in His Name...because it is the only jugtee which removes our haume, our vikaars, our huge amount of karmas gathered in countless births ...and the account of our karmas still go on increase witout any limitations... When will we moorakhs, learn to do that unique bhakti as per Gurmat? Sat Sree Akal.

Simran Pen Jee, all the Gurbani Shabads presented by you above, are simply fantastic. True universal religion is the essence in them. Sat Sree Akal.

Guptprincess jee, first of all sorry for your ill health issue; eating meat or not, or even being on a vegetarian diet, has nothing to do with taste, or liking it, or wanting it, or not. It has to be something reasonable behind it. You see, creation is made in such a way, that karam is unavoidable. Saints advise us to stay on veg diet, because the weight increment of karamas on our heads, is lighter, than if we ate meat or other non veg stuff. We have to balance our lives with Gurmat. While paying off our destiny karma in this life, at the same time, collect the least karma, so that the paying off for it in the future does not become so big or so painful. Moreover, while being here and paying our karmas here, as per Guramt, we have also to make the most profit in this priceless human life; which is to do His Bhajan bandagee that much, that we invoke His Grace on us, and wash the filth of our store karma. Because, if we do not take chance of this priceless human birth, we are then no less than beasts or the rest of the creatures in the creation. Sister, have full faith in Wahiguru and stick to it firmly. You see, there are some things which we are out of our control, like birth / death, happiness / sorrow, health / illness. On these things we have no control. Believe it, before we were even born, our number of breaths are counted, the very minute and palce we shall leave this earth is also perfectly timed, not a single second less, nor more. So believe it, no doctor, nobody, can shorten your life, nor make it longer of a decimal of a second even. So if everything is written, why not let the nature work out our destiny, and we without any doubts, rather do His devotion with so much intensity and longing for His darshan, that we take our surtee within and above the mental state, and get deeply absorbed in the Shabad Guru, which is the fountain of infinite and permanent bliss. I am quite consciouss, that this is more difficult than said, but it is the only thing we can do for ourselves. I am not saying give up, keep on trying, but do not compromise and try to jump over the principles of this creation. I will definetely pray to Wahiguru to give you strength to face this your karma, not that He does not know about your condition, but definetely prayers are means to invoke His grace, prayers can move mountains, and this is what we can at most do, whether for others, or ourselves. Sister Guptprincess Jee, may Wahiguru bless you. Sat Sree Akal.

Yes that is what I am saying also, people desviate because there is no concentration, no clear thinking, the mind is volatile ...it happens so, not only here, but almost on all levels of lives...

Simran Pen Jee, we humans mostly see everything with our limited vision. But the thing is we should keep in mind, that be it Shaheeds, or any ordinary people, it is the souls, the jeev atmas, which merge in Him, through His Bhakti. You see it is we who think that even in ruhaniyat, there are heros or villains. And just as president of a country, condecorates any brave soldier because he has fought and done a great job on a mission assigned to him...so we think, shaheeds by fighting the enemies of a particular dharam and by sacrificing their lives are something of a higher level and will be accepted in His Darbar and condecorated as Shaheeds with much band baaja and music, as most of we think. I believe many of our people think whenever they reach Sach Khand, they will se a huge crowd of Shaheds, of Gurmukhs, Sant Jan, of Guru Sahibans ...etc. All this is our bharm. For as the Bani says: Sach Khand vasay Nirankar. In Sach Khand, only the formless Wahiguru Nirankar resides, and whosoever reaches there, goes not to retain its individual personality, but to become one with Wahiguru. Below Sach Khand, there are many planes where souls arte not totally free from the creation, and there one can see all these good noble souls, brave souls .... including the angels, gods or godesses. You see when we step there, we shed all our coverings, whether physical astral or causal. We become pure shining Light, pure souls, in order to merge in Him. A soul is related to God, just as a ray is to the Sun, or a drop to the Ocean. So it is the water in the glass, which become one with the water of the Ocean ...the glass, the bottles...are just retainers or containers of that essence; so is the same with our body and soul. Our sous are of the same nature as formless Wahiguru, irrespective of our nationalities, race, caste, gender or color ... But the fact is, in His Darbar, the only requirement needed for entry, is His grace and His devotion. He does not see as we see, He does not see of which caste, color, dharam or mazaab one belongs, or what profession one has, if one is a president of a state, a brave soldier, a tailor, a cook, or a servant, be it anything .... If anything He ever sees and consideres is, if, we have done the job, the mission of our coming here in this world, which is of doing His real devotion, thus cut our attachments, our chains with this mayavee creation and merge in Him. As the Bani says : Bahut janam bichre teh Madao, ehe janam tumare lekhey. This means, in countless lives we have done many things, jap, tap, poojas, paths, pilgrimages, heroic acts .....etc, but none were worthy for our redemption, thus we contnue in the wheel of 84, so dear Lord, this very life we shall dediacte it exclusively in your bhajan bandagee, in doing the right devotion, which is His Simran alone. Bhaee parapat manukh deh hooreeya, Gobind milan ke ehe teree bareeya. This means, we have got this human birth, only for the purpose of reuniting our souls with Him, and this is only possible way no other, through His Bhakti alone. Different thing is, one being a perfect devotee of Wahiguru, a good noble person,has also a duty towards his people, as a brave soldier by fighting the enemy, or even if he is not a soldier, but when the need arises, he steps forward without any doubt and fulfills his duty as a human being fighting for justice...and these people, as said before, because they are perfect devotees, we call them perfect devotees not for any reason in particular, but because they perform their bhajan bandagee as per instructions of Gurmat or Gurabni, so even if they loose their lives in the battlefield, they will surely reach His Darbar and Wahiguru will embrace them. So the entering in His Drabar and being accepted there, is because of their pooran bhakti as souls, not because of their professions, or any heroic acts as humans. It is their pooran bhakti, which takes them to higher avasthaas, and makes them see Wahiguru everywhere, so they become fearless as He Himself, because everywhere, and everything is Wahiguru to them. So in a way, even their bravey, is a consequence of their pooran sharda and pooran bhakti towards Wahiguru alone. I thought in bringing out this point of view,a s we humans are vey weak, and always like the easy way and find excuses or substitutes for not doing our real job of His bhakti. Anyone is free of thinking and believing as one may want, but it would be wise and safe, in keeping Gurbani present in our daily lives, by implementig it strongly in our minds. Sat Sree Akal

Well it only shows how people can differ in their thinking on a same issue ...we may laugh, but the thing is the minds(which otherwise is invisble) of the people can be very well seen through their speech and writings, it says a lot about their personality through their expressions ... Of course there are exceptions, but mostly it is like that. Though the thread at some point got out of tracks, but it had a positive side in it... An arrogant thug who was doing a lot of nonsense, was unmasked with the help of a guest....

Simran Pen Jee, brother Kira has given such a beautiful and an accurate answer, that there is hardly anything more to be added. Sat Sree Akal.

The frecuency of Wahiguru Wahiguru is present within us all, as the frecuency of Naam. And all we have to do, is to tune ourselves to it, through His Simran. Sat Sree Akal.

Dear sister Simran Jee, first of all, please excuse me in having to judge anybody. I am no authority, plus I am a sinner myself. Each one of us is struggling soul, each one of us has a different and personal relation with Wahiguru. And secondly, that much I can only say... we should love and live so much in Gurabani, that we need nobody to tell us anything, we shall know it by ourselves. Pen jee, our Guru Sahibans have showered us with their unpayable Grace, by letting us have their unconditional love, their infinite wisdom, through the pure paviter Gurbani. Words fail to express any gratitude to them. God bless you. Sat Sree Akal.

Brother gupt jee, whosoever you may be, hats off to your this kind and brave gesture, there is no need to fear this fake, shameless and bully poster, of whom, you have made us know his true reality. We want to know who you are, so that we may thank you, otherwise you may remain hidden if you so wish. We admire your bravery and sincerity. You are an example of goodness for us here, I hope others too learn and get inspired to stand up for righteousness and justice, so that nobody can just come and do nonsense just like that. It is a pity that guests can not be tick marked with a like, otherwise I am sure you would have received many many likes .... May God bless you. Sat Sree Akal.

Pen jee, your post is full of humanity and wsidom. But sometimes, only sometimes, it is good to give a slap to the evildoer, so that the next time, he thinks twice or thrice before doing any nonsense. One can not just go on troubling people, just like that, and not getting anything in return, like that at least of a good slap. Watch my words, I am not saying to give a good punch, just a slap . This should be enough to bring him back into senses. You see Pen Jee, some are bullies right from their childhood, though they may have grown up, but when they come into forums and interact with different people, they somehow continue with their bad habits, and this should not be tolerated by anyone, neither allowed in a public place, like this Sikh Sangat web. Really fed up with this type of goons.... Sat Sree Akal.

All of the posters above are right, special care should be taken in watching or keeping an eye on those who behave like goons and spread disrespect, verbal abuses, controversies, and behaviours alike..... They think, that this Sikh Sangat website, is their father´s property, so they can say and do as they want, there should a control before it goes out of hands and far away, or too late. All these people should know, that this is a respectable web, nonsense should not be tolerated or inciting others into hot arguments, as they are very well versed in such evil or better said wicked behaviours. It is such a pity, that some of the members here have suffered threats online. We all know how foolish and stupid is the world going, specially online, many bad thing start from online. If ever any such cases arise again, apart from banning those posters, it should be reported to the local authorities, so that in the future, if anybody thinks of doing nonsense, he or she will have to think twice. Otherwise these people, get the sense that till now nobody has stopped them, so their ego gets boosted, and they will try reaching even still farther than what they have being doing till now. Hope, this thread started by brother Jacfsing2, does not go wasted in the dustbin... Sat Sree Akal.

Just today I was going through the Gurbani, and coincidentally, I felt Guru Jee was talking to me, and giving me a perfect answer to the topic of this thread, which left me amazed, as how, if we are sicere and seek His guidance, He blesses us with it, through His Bani. Following are the words of Ninth Patshahee in Raag Jaijavanti: ਸਗਲ ਭਰਮ ਡਾਰਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇਹਿ Sagal Bharam Ddaar Dhaehi Gobindh Ko Naam Laehi सगल भरम डारि देहि गोबिंद को नामु लेहि Give up all your doubts, and utter the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ਅੰਤਿ ਬਾਰ ਸੰਗਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਇਹੈ ਏਕੁ ਜਾਤੁ ਹੈ Anth Baar Sang Thaerai Eihai Eaek Jaath Hai अंति बार संगि तेरै इहै एकु जातु है At the very last moment, this alone shall go along with you Let us ask ourselves, what is it that which will take me out of the mayavee creation and make me worthy to merge and become with Him, which also means mukti. And by keeping in mind at all times, mukti is got only by one means, one jugtee, there are no substitutes as such, like one type for ordinary beings, other type for the warriors, and so on for different religions etc .... etc ....etc Dhan Dhan Satguru Teg Bhadaur Maharaj Jee, clearly says, to get mukti, utter the Name of the Lord, means do His simran only. We may ask, why this? Because I do so many other things, which acording to my beliefs are part and parcel of my dharam ..... Well, to questions of this nature, Guru Jee says, because it is the kamaee of Naam simran, which will only go with you and allow you to be guided by Shabad Guru within. All other activities, which we may do, fall under the label of subh karam at most, and as such are not only the reasons for not getting any mukti, but surely, are like golden chains around our necks, which ensure our going and coming in the wheel of countless births and deaths, thus continue remaining prisoners in this mayavee creation. And so, if we willingly sacrifice our precious human life, and we do not do His simran as mentioned by Guru Jee above to achieve mukti... this means, we will never achieve it, becasue we have not fulfilled our obligation of doing His bhakti, for which we came as human beings... And if we miss the chance in this life of doing it, what guarantee is there that we will do it another birth? And who knows, when will we get a human birth again? As it is not easy to be born as humans. Politicians, devil minded leaders in disguise of fake "sadh janas", will encite or induce us to do wrong things, to the extent, to make us give away our lives for going after shadows, with false promises and arguments..... But, we have to overcome and survive, inspite of all these adversities, temptations .... And for that purpose,there is only one way, and that is none other than to get the guidance from Gurbani alone, because by doing so, we open the doors , the vessels of our beings, in being receptive to His apaar Kirpa, His Daya Meher upon us, and thus get mukti. Mukti, or union with Him, is not achieved by any amount of our efforts, but, by His Grace alone, that too, if only we follow His Hukum. Sat Sree Akal.

Paa Jee, as Kalyug moves forward in full force, dharm is bound to be on gradual decline. You see, you mention the situation of some few centuries back, and we can see how much changes have ocurred. So we sholud be baaram baar thankful to Him, as He has chosen us to be at the refuge of His Lotus Feet through Gurbani. It is good to have that feeling of pity for others; but in the end, we have to worry the more for us, to do as much bhakti as possible in this short human uncertain life, and carry that spiritual wealth with us. For the rest, we may think in the terms as the Bani says, to whom He wants back, He makes them aware of Himself and makes them do His bhakti through His apaar Kirpa, and the remaining ones, He keeps them busy in the different roles, in His grand play. Sat Sree Akal.

Gobind Jeeo toon mere pran adhaar A beautiful Shabad from the Bani of Fifth Patshahee in Raag Saarang, where Guru Jee tells us, about Wahiguru being His sole objective of His devotion, and how through His kirpa, one joins Sadh Sangat, does the right bhakti, and one obtains the treasure beyond measure, which is Wahiguru Himself. ਸਾਰਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ Sarag Mehala 5 सारग महला ५ Saarang, Fifth Mehl: Raag Sarang Guru Arjan Dev, Ang 885 ਗੋਬਿਦ ਜੀਉ ਤੂ ਮੇਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਅਧਾਰ Gobidh Jeeo Thoo Maerae Pran Adhhar गोबिद जीउ तू मेरे प्रान अधार O Dear Lord of the Universe, You are the Support of my breath of life. ਸਾਜਨ ਮੀਤ ਸਹਾਈ ਤੁਮ ਹੀ ਤੂ ਮੇਰੋ ਪਰਵਾਰ Sajan Meeth Sehaee Thum Hee Thoo Maero Paravar साजन मीत सहाई तुम ही तू मेरो परवार You are my Best Friend and Companion, my Help and Support; You are my family. ਕਰੁ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਧਾਰਿਓ ਮੇਰੈ ਮਾਥੈ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ Kar Masathak Dhhariou Maerai Mathhai Sadhhasang Gun Gaeae करु मसतकि धारिओ मेरै माथै साधसंगि गुण गाए You placed Your Hand on my forehead; in the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, I sing Your Glorious Praises. ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਫਲ ਪਾਏ ਰਸਕਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਧਿਆਏ Thumaree Kirapa Thae Sabh Fal Paeae Rasak Ram Nam Dhhiaeae तुमरी क्रिपा ते सभ फल पाए रसकि राम नाम धिआए By Your Grace, I have obtained all fruits and rewards; I meditate on the Lord's Name with delight. ਅਬਿਚਲ ਨੀਵ ਧਰਾਈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਕਬਹੂ ਡੋਲਤ ਨਾਹੀ Abichal Neev Dhharaee Sathigur Kabehoo Ddolath Nahee अबिचल नीव धराई सतिगुरि कबहू डोलत नाही The True Guru has laid the eternal foundation; it shall never be shaken. ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਬ ਭਏ ਦਇਆਰਾ ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਂਹੀ Gur Naanak Jab Bheae Dhaeiara Sarab Sukha Nidhh Panhee गुर नानक जब भए दइआरा सरब सुखा निधि पांही Guru Nanak has become merciful to me, and I have been blessed with the treasure of absolute peace

Respected abelsingh, I have no problems with you as per what we agree on or not. The problem is with the poster akalifauj. His problem is he is full of envy, of wickedness and above all a very thick layer of haume. I am sure he will deny this, but has ever any theif acepted of being thief. All these negative vices have made him a vey narrow minded person, which makes him see halucinations in his corrupted mind. There where others see goodness, righteousness, rationality...he sees all the opposite. Like a bat, who is comfortable in the darkness of his manmat, and if even a ray light of a tukk of Gurabni s mentioned, he gets altered...so what to say anything of this poor fellow. He is just like a theif siiting and watching the passerbys in the bush, that to attack them by troubling them, and as per what he does so for, only he knows. It is he who uses the foul language and acts like a goon here, disrespectfully, without the minnimum decency to interact with others. So if he willingly looks for trouble, he will surely get it. People are not stupid to tolerate his nonsense. To the accusation of stones being thrown to him, he is that senseless, that he does not even see, that those very stones are his own, thrown by him, which come back to him as a boomerang, and then, just as an a silly child, he blames others for his own actions. Had he thrown goodness, surely he had got that in return.... but if he does not learn by simple lessons in his dealings with others,life will take him to higher and more painful lessons... Just leave him, he is not worthy to feel pity or sorry for him, as he also does not have, for those, who according to his narrow mind, he thinks they are wrong and thus just let flow his abuses in a foul language, when the fact is, it is he who is at fault, mainly due to his arrogance which he will cunningly deny .. Gurbani, whether a tuk, a couplet or the whole Shabad ...is sweet and perfect by itself. So due to his limited and poor understanding, he needs the whole shabad to situate himself...and the worse thing is, inspite of that his poor vision, after going through the whole Shabad, he is so full of negativity and agyanta, that even then, his interpretaions are totally wrong .. When someone uses a tuk from the Bani, it is not as your ill thinking says, it is for twistting or misinterpretaing, or getting any personal benefits, but it is done so, for a particular topic in that post or thread, related to it. For example, take the Mool Mantra, which in just a few lines, has several topics, as He being One, or as being the only everlasting Truth, or about His virtues in the following verses, or at the end about His Grace. So akali jee, for example if there is a topic upon grace of Wahiguru, why to start with the begining of the Mool Mantra, which is of different topic, why not going directly to : Gur Parsad jap. What is the wrong in it? Or suppose, there is another topic of His inmensity...what is wrong in just quoting: Akal Moorat, ajoonee Saibhang. Other thing is, if you just write an isolated tuk as you did above in your post as an example, without being related to any topic anywhere, I will definetely tell you, you are out of your senses, you are mad. So akali jee come on, and widen the horizons of your closed mind... In conclusion abelsingh jee, this guy is dangerous, he himself is fake, and is making others see that he is something like a detective watching others doing wrong...But it does not matter much, the more he opens his mouth to speak nonsense, the more he exposes his own fakeness. He claims with a big mouth going to "gurmukh camps" and in pointing out their mistakes...... But let us ask him, who is his fake teacher? Who has taught him like something which he said in another thread, which even the most mentally retarded donkey would dare to say, he has many more nonsense here... but as an small example of his deep ignorance ,following are his very own words : so long as the shabad Guru is the teacher of the body it is the real mandir. Since when, or where is it wriiten, or interpreted by any fool, that the Shabad Guru is the teacher of the body? Huh? This is like saying, a teacher teaches a toy made from handful of dust, and we all know the body is conciousless, " jarr " . So how come this chap, even dare to say such nonsense? Well as said previously, it is possible, if it comes from this guy, as he is a sack full of nonsense Or is your present mental state, the result, of your own swimming in your limited corrupted mind as a pond, and you hopping like a frog in it, from one shore to another, without trying in getting out of it, to see higher realities .... Foolishness has no limits .... There is one remedy for him, for his improvement .... Forget it .... Let life teach him, the way he likes most, the hard way. Sat Sree Akal.

NO TIME..NO TIME. I Knelt To Pray But Not For Long, I Had Too Much To Do. I Had To Hurry And Get To Work For Bills Would Soon Be Due. So I Knelt And Said A Hurried Prayer, And Jumped Up Off My Knees. My Religious Duty Was Now Done My Soul Could Rest At Ease..... All Day Long I Had No Time To Spread A Word Of Cheer No Time To Speak Of God To Friends, They'd Laugh At Me I'd Fear. No Time, No Time, Too Much To Do, That Was My Constant Cry No Time To Give To Souls In Need But At Last The Time Came, The Time To Die, I Went Before The Lord. I Came, I Stood With Downcast Eyes. For In His Hands God Held A Book; It Was The Book Of Life. God Looked Into His Book And Said 'Your Name I Cannot Find, I Once Was Going To Write It Down... But Never Found The Time' P.S : I just found and went through this prayer poetry today, and I found that apart from interesting, it is the picture of most of us, like we are in a constant rush, even in our time into His devotion. God is a very jealous lover, He does not want anything from us, just our mind. Once the mind is given, then He gives Himself to us in exchange. Sat Sree Akal.

Jacfsing2 Jee, the waking up early to be done effectively from my opinion, has not to be done mechanically nor theoretically, because it will not work out well. This waking up early, has some points to be taken into consideration. First of all, it has to be a sincere desire to get up by understanding that, it will be time of being into solitude, in intimacy with my beloved Wahiguru. Secondly, have dinner by eight, and that to a light one. And third, to be slept by 10:00 PM. The food should be sattvic, and totally avoid intoxicants, as alcohol, or drugs, and avoid any violent movies.... as all these things have an impact on the mind. Because it is not only important to get up early, but is also very important to stay alert and fresh during our bhajan bandagee time dedicated. You see, just as when we eat our food, several steps have been taken, and all are important, just as buying the eatables, peeling them, cooking them, and lastly serve it into our plates. One more thing, if our aim of getting up is for bhajan bandagee bhakti, it means, we have a keen desire to walk the path of truth; and to be able walk the path of truth, our dealings with the world and our relations of any type, have to be based on morality, like no cheating, no lies, no slandering, goodness at the bottom of our hearts, being helpful to all, without animosity towards anyone, as the very objective of our goal, is much present in all, as in us. Well brother, these have been my 2 cents, but I am sure among the sangat here, there are many good sikhs who can give you also their helpful hints, then you decide what appeals you most, and put it into practice. Any how, you have my best wishes. May Wahiguru bless you. Sat Sree Akal.

The secret of secrets, for God realization, by Dhan Dhan Satguru Sachay Patshah in Raag Suhi The whole world is in one way or the other after God realization. So many dharmas, so many philosophers, so many prophets, so many gods, so many godesses, so much jap, tap, poojas, paaths .... Each and everyone claiming its own way or method, being the true one....and from there on, start all the controversies, quarrels,wars ... But, we are lucky enough with the blessings of Wahiguru, to have a Perfect One among us, like Fifth Patshahee, who in just a sentence of few words, reveals us the secrets of secrets in a simple language, direct to the point. Not like others, who may need volumes upon volumes to express themselves and leave us confused in the end. In Gurbani, a word or two, a sentence, or a couplet maybe enough, or self sufficient by itself to conevy us the message, which is intended by Guru Jee. Otherwise donkey may memorize the whole Bani, but if their chit is not clean, they will remain hypocrites and manmukhs. For Gurbani is pure, so paviterta, purity is a must in us, to comprehend it in the right manner. Gurbani is magical, is marvelous, is indescribable in its sweetness and excellent in the truths contained in it, far richer then any, and beyond any parralell in the whole creation. Following are the words of Guru Jee: ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪਾਇਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਸਗਲ ਮਨੋਰਥ ਪਾਏ Abinaasee Paaeiaa Naam Dhhiaaeiaa Sagal Manorathh Paaeae अबिनासी पाइआ नामु धिआइआ सगल मनोरथ पाए The Imperishable Lord is obtained, meditating on the Naam, and all one's wishes are fulfilled. He says, to realize him, nothing, nothing else is needed, only a pure heart and mind, full of love and devotion, in order to make possible our meditating on Him, through His Naam simran. And the fact is, we do many many other things, almost everything. But this one thing bhakti, mentioned by Fifth Patshahee, seldom anybody does it. Because we are more concerned about our own concepts of sikhee, as per what we have seen others doing, and heard from others, since we were born, than really paying attention to what the Bani is telling us to do, in each and every Ang of it, which is nothing else than, His chintan, through His Naam bhakti. Sat Sree Akal.

Such a pity, the original topic of the thread has been totally lost of sight, and we are fighting and blaming for unimportant matters. The one, of using a mala? We must be really crazy. We moorakhs, we full of weaknesses.... we are comparing oursleves with the Perfect ones. Though they appear or not in the pictures with a mala.... surely they do not need, their minds are spotless, it does not take them even a second to attune themselves with Naam during Simran, I would even go a step futher, they, even while walking, talking or doing any worldly task, their "chit" is in constant comunion with Wahiguru. It is we, who are dumb and lame, so some of us we may need the mala to concentrate on the simran, but if we are sincere and pure, in due time, when our simran and concentration get better, we shall automatically stop using it. If we really want to copy Guru Sahibans, let it not be on useless matters, but on something very useful and important, like the time they gave into Bhajan Bandagee, which I believe could be for several hours ,,. also they with other noble virtues or qualities, used them while dealing with others ...such as grace, mercy, compassion, pity, always helpful, goodness in heart and mind... Why do we not try to imitate them on the real values of Gurmat, just as they did by applying it in their daily lives... Life would be much better for all, if we did so. But the fact is, spiritual wise, we are donkeys, we do not pay attentive attention on Gurbani. Thus we are still very much manmukhs, with strong vices as : jealousy, hatred, cheating, haume , krodh , kaam, so our chit is clouded. We have no clear thinking, we remain deluded with doubts, and if we give an imprsession of being knowledgeable, it is false and full of fanatism. In sikhism, first of all we have to be humble and good, in order to imbibe the spiritual values derived from its daily practice, as per means of His Simran, which is the Amrit of Naam.. Sat Sree Akal.

THE IMPORTANCE OF LOVE IN DEVOTION THE LORD HAS MADE HIS OWN AND I AM DRENCED IN HIS LOVE EVEN WERE MY BODY PUT TO FLAMES I WOULD NOT FLINCH FOR A MOMENT EVEN WERE I TO LOOSE MY LIFE I WOULD NOT BREAK THE BOND OF HIS LOVE HOW CAN THE JEWEL OF LOVE BE OBTAINED FOR NOTHING? IN EXCHANGE FOR MY VERY BEING I BOUGHT HIM, THE PRICELESS ONE THE LORD FOR WHOM BRAHMA SOUGHT IN VAIN I HAVE FOUND HIM WITHIN MY OWN BODY SAYS KABEER: I HAVE BECOME FREE FROM THE TIES OF HOPES AND DESIRES; I HAVE MET THE LORD AND AM BLESSED WITH UNSHAKABLE FAITH IN HIM THE LORD HAS MADE ME HIS OWN AND I AM DRENCHED IN HIS LOVE. KABEER, THE WEAVER OF GOD´S NAME

First of all, Simran Jee, for me you are right and to you akali fauj the demeaning coming from you, is the only thing expected from you. That is what you know, and by constant indulging in it, you become perfect with each post of that type. Not that, you have not the capacity in thinking and behaving rightly, but it seems, you are true to this your present nature. Well, you can try and behave arrogantly, disrespectingly, but that only shows your true colours of what you truly are. You like to manipulate things to your points of views, and if you do not agree with others, you demean others maliciously without any sense. When we say, Har mandir ehu sareer hae .... This means, it is within this body temple named so by Guru Jee in the Bani, not because the body is literally the temple, but because, it is there where, each and everyone can go within, through His simran and find Him with His Grace. Each and everyone has to go within their body to do so, nobody can enter others bodies to realize Him. Is that clear now akali fauj? Let us see some of your own baffled manipulated narrow minded views: So how can the body be the real temple? Looking at the whole Shabad anyone can see, so long as the shabad Guru is the teacher of the body it is the real mandir. The body which is manmukh is only a temple because it doesn't follow the teachings of Gurmat. You must remember, Wahiguru is much present in the Gurmukhs, as well as in the thieves, dacoits, or even in those who do not believe in Him... Vaheguru is absorbed into everything and this whole world is har mandir.... Wahiguru is definetely everywhere, so what is the fake temple? Fake is the mind, maya ..... which are the barriers between us and Him As Gurbani says the body without Guru Sahib's teachings is fake. Totaly wrong. The body even with His teachings is fake. Do not mistake the perisahble body with the soul, which is the truth in the body, as it is of the same essence of Wahiguru´s Jot. A particle of His Consciousness, which by permeating and staying in those bodies, brings life into them, and while leaving, makes them lifeless. I am really baffled how Gurbani is being manipulated here. The same with me, here about you The consequences are very dangerous because what is stopping a Hindu, Sikh or anyone else from worshipping a human if the body is the real mandir? Additionally stone idol worship would not be wrong because in the same Shabad if another line is manipulated, the world is worthy of as jagut. Idol worship is always wrong, as it is lifeless, consciousless, soul less .... Also there would not have been any need for Sri Harmandir Sahib to be built by Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji. The first pauri of the Shabad says the Har mandir has to be found through the Shabad Guru. So what is Guru Sahib saying, this body becomes the Har mandir (real temple) when you become one with Naam. Again you are wrong here. The body is Har Mandir, only because He can be found within, not any other place. Now if you inspire others to go and find Wahiguru any other place than within us, it is you, who is going against Gurbani, so yes, in that case you are very dangerous with your distorted and senseless views. Can you please tell us, what is your definition of Shabad Guru? And how to contact Him, or how to become one with Naam? Please elaborate these points to the sangat. Gian ratan is best defined as knowledge which is rare like a jewel. And purgat hoe is best defined as shown or revealed. Fortunately, here you are right. When Guru Sahib says search inside, it doesn't mean to start searching with your abilities. It means to attune the mind to the Shabad Guru and with this true knowledge search for Akal Purkh. No surgeon has cut open a human and said, look i found your God hiding in your heart, hes the cause for heart failure. Once again I agree with you here, only because at least and lastly, you say something with sense. Praising false knowledge shows a person has not done their homework and is blindly relying on another who in this case did manipulate Gurbani for his benefits. Universe is spiritually sick with the same vices. You are wrong here, Gurbani can not be manipulated, it can be misinterpreted, and that also, because of the manmukhta , maya, mind, and Kalyug, or the deep rooted evil in those people. And remember Gurbani is not some type business as you want to make us see, to make personal benefits .... You are absolutely wrong here again.... The whole shabad is on ang 1346 and please don't rely on the English translations. You will burn only yourself and no one else. Again you are wrong here, we should not rely on the english translations only if they are wrong, not otherwise. If that was the case, first of all we should not take seriously any of your nonsense in english, as it is with that means, you are trying to explain your senseless beliefs.... Gurbani can never burn anyone, it is Amrit. Nobody can burn anyone, as all are already burnt with agyanta. It is only by Gurbani and Sadh Sangat, and above all His Grace, for which one is rejuvenated. Same fire is burning the world to destruction is inside of the body. This your line, is the most manmukhta and foolishness which one can ever read. Above you say, the jugat is Har Mandir, and now you say, there is fire burning the world... How come fire come from where Wahiguru resides? There are many contradictions in what you mostly say or write.... LOL. Clear up your polluted mind, before you start demeaning others.... and giving an false image of you knowing Gurbani. When the truth is, you are full of negativity. Otherwise as I have said, you do have a lot of potential of being a good person and knowledgeable.... It is only clear, you are insecure due to unreasonable jealousy. Brother in Guramt, nobody is superior or inferior we are all same, if ever any mahima it is only of Wahiguru, otherwise we are all kookars at His door. Sat Sree Akal.

Today I was just going through the Bani of First Patshahee in Sidh Gosht, and I feel, His following sweet words, are not only the answer for the shaheeds, but for anybody who wishes to become one with Him. Becuase the topic in this thread is if the shaheeds get mukti. But let us ask ourselves, why limit this beautful state to shaheeds only, or is it that, there is a nother method or way of getting mukti for the rest of the people or jeevas? Mukti is the same, irrespective of one´s faith or business or profession. Mukti is a state of purity, a level of consciousness, achieved by associating ourselves with the Supreme Truth within us, through His Simran, it is not something to speculate about. Shame on those who try to divert the attention on useless irrelevant views. So following are the paviter words of Sachay Patshah Baba Nanak : ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕਿਉ ਸਾਚਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ Naanak Bin Naavai Kio Saach Samaavai नानक बिनु नावै किउ साचि समावै O Nanak, without the Name, how can one be absorbed in Truth? After reading these words full of wisdom of our beloved Guru Jee , what else is left to talk, explain, or debate about ? I think He can not be more explicit. He clearly says that without Naam (Simran), how can we ever merge in that Supreme Truth, namely Wahiguru. So, it is through Gurbani, that we come to know and understand, that if mukti or liberation can ever be achieved, it is by His Simran or meditation on Him, be it shaheed or anyone...if not, then do whatever we may, we shall remain for sure in the Cycle of Eighty Four, in this Mayavee creation. Sat Sree Akal.