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Everything posted by TuhadaDaas

  1. You earlier said that your problem was that according to osingh bhai sahib said "osinghs saying that only then once their bani was accepted, were they allowed in sachkhand." The quote you have given of osingh does not state that. On top of that, my very first post in this thread is clarifiying that osingh has written WRONGLY about Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's views. Also, osingh is not quoting, but paraphrasing (and wrongly too!). Dear God, what is with peoples' literacy these days!! I will break down once again what bhai sahib actually said on the matter; Bhagats reached karam khand through doing jaap of kirtam naam Bhagats were then called by Guru Sahib from sachkhand Bhagats became Sikhs, bhagats did ucharan of dhur ki bani. You may think the above is factually incorrect, but in no way is it insulting bhagats.
  2. I still don't understand how that is insulting, incorrect (in your eyes) maybe, but not insulting. Please don't quote to me what osingh is saying as neither have I made that point nor has Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh. All that bhai sahib randhir singh said was that the bhagats only did ucharan of the bani that we follow after they had met Guru Sahib. Bhai Randhir Singh did not state "that only then once their bani was accepted, were they allowed in sachkhand". I am glad you take back your earlier statement. I don't see anyone stating that the bhagats are not in sachkhand, only that they got their through SatGuru Nanak Dev Ji. yaar, je kise ne goo khaana, khaan deo.
  3. N30, you lack an understanding of the basic meaning of the word 'NAAM' - Naam means noun, i.e. a singular word. An entire peice of bani cannot be a kirtam naam. Anything more than one word is not a kirtam naam. Ik Oankaar is considered an entire bani in itself Mool mantar is not a single word it is a piece of bani, so doing jaap of mool mantar is not doing jaap of a kirtam naam but jaap of a composition. Satnaam is not one word, correct pad chedd 'Sat' and 'naam'. If i did jaap of 'sat' sat sat, then yes that would be jaap of a kirtam naam. If I did jaap of 'naam' naam naam, then yes that would be jaap of a kirtam naam. If I said 'sat naam' 'sat naam', I would be reciting Gurbani. And likewise to all other examples you have given exept for 'Raam'. As for 'Raam', your argument to prove that its both sargun and nirgun gyan is nonsensical. When referring to Vaheguru, Raam is one attribute of Vaheguru, i.e a kirtam naam. Other than that Gurbani has acknowledged that there was a historical figure called Raam, this does not give raam both nirgun and sargun gyan. If my mate's name is Gobind that doesn't suddenly make Gobind a satnam containing nirgun and sargun gyan because someone has that name! Same for sohang. Panj pyare ARE the Satguru!!! Once agin mool mantar is not a kirtam naam simply by virtue of the fact that its not a single noun, as the literal meaning of the phrase 'kirtam naam' is a noun, i.e. a single word, describing an attribute of Vaheguru. What mantars did they give and how were they so great as to know a satnaam mantar (as you beleive)? I have already explained how Raam is not satnaam. You have no proof that Ganika went to sachkhand upon reciting raam raam.
  4. How is it insulting to the bhagats? How do you know whether Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji knows Sachkhand or not? Are you Satguru? Are you in Sackhand? Once again no one said anything about compilation into Adi Granth so your point is invalid. All that is being said is that the bhagats met the Satguru before they reached Sachkhand, and it was only on meeting Satguru Ji and reaching Sachkhand that dhur ki bani was revealed to them. What has compilation of their bani into Sri Adi Granth have to do with this? But how do you know that the particular bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was by Ganjshakar ji?
  5. If I sang a complete line of a shabad ,eg. 'har har sant jana ki jeevan' it is obviously not a kirtam NAAM as; 1) An entire sentence is not a noun (Naam) 2) It is obviously a line of dhur ki bani and it comes only from the Guru, no human could come up with it himself. Now if i just did jap of the word 'Har', then I am reciting a kirtam naam as; 1)It is a noun (a naam) 2) It is not part of Gurbani, but even a non-sikh who has never heard of Gurbani could come up with the idea of japping 'Har'. To answer your question in simple English, no Bhai Sahib did not believe Gurbani was a kirtam naam, as that would just be illogical. He did however beleive that individual words that people may use to describe God in one word are kirtam NAAMS. Also, Ik oankaar is a self contained bani with itself. You just said yourself that a kirtam naam is one which does not include both sargun and nirgun, I agree with you completely, a kirtam naam is a name any one could come up with to descirbe one attribute of Vaheguru. Now can you tell me; 1) What other singular naam is there apart from 'Vaheguru', which contains both nirgun and sargun gyan i.e. Satnam? Remember an entire shabad of Gurbani can not be called a 'naam' as naam means noun, not an entire composition such as a Gurbani shabad. 2)What being apart from Satguru could know and reveal such a Naam?
  6. No one is insulting the bhagats here. Like I said, the very fact they reached upto Karam Khand without even becoming Sikhs and receiving Gurmantar means that they were astounding souls, as this is a virtually impossible thing to do. Let alone non-sikhs, most sikhs who have gurmantar do not even reach karam khand until after many lives using vaheguru gurmantar! Think how great the bhagti of the bhagats must have been to reach the khand just before Sachkhand without even having the satguru. However, all that is being said is, no one, not even the bhagats got to sachkhand UNTIL they met Satguru Ji. Thats all. You may not agree with that view, but don't make it out like anyone, especially not Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh, is insulting the bhagats. And what makes you so sure that the bani of Bhagat Farid Ji in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is not by Farid Sani Aka Sheikh Brahm (grandson of Farid Ganjshakar)? How do you know that it is Farid Ganjshakar's bani? According to you we should remove; mitee muslman ki shabad as it is an insult to the Moghuls, all shabads against moorti pooja as they offend moorti poojaks, shabads such as 'satgur bajjho gur nahi koee' as they insult all the gurus out there and their chelay, bhai gurdas vara that prove the islam is wrong about their only being seven worlds, the very fact that satguru ji is pargat is an insult to mohammed who said no more prophets and revelations after him, etc. etc. Absolutely nonsensical point you have made, of course many things about Sikhi will contradict what other faiths say and of course their followers will take offence. I suppose you probably support the moghuls who persecuted our Guru Sahibs as in your view they were of course justified in being offended by Guru Sahib! Also, its interesting to know that you would classify a term found in gurbani, 'gurmat naam' as a brand name.
  7. No offence but your question itself is illogical, its like asking do I believe oranges are vegetables. The very meaning of the word kirtam naam is a NAME, i.e. a noun for Vaheguru which describes one of Vaheguru's virtues, eg. Raam, Har etc. For bhai sahib to call something like mool mantar a kirtam naam would mean he doesn't know what kirtam naam means lol. So its impossible that bhai sahib would call gurbani a kirtam naam as gurbani and kirtam naams are two different categories. Where have I or Bhai Sahib said anything about compilation of Sri Adi Granth? Maybe you cant read properly. Bhai Sahib said that BEFORE becoming Sikhs, the bhagats only reached karam khand, but they did reach Sachkhand after becoming Sikhs. The fact that they were among the rare few who actually reached karam khand with kirtam naam only says how great the bhagats were. As for your question of 'what chance have we Sikhs nowadays got' , the whole point illustrated by what bhai sahib said is that Sikhs (infact only sikhs) have the way to get to sachkhand thanks to the Satguru, as it was only after becoming Sikhs that the Bhagats reached their full greatness and did ucharan of dhur ki bani.
  8. While I agree with much of what he has said, Osingh's statement about what bhai sahib said about bhagats is not totally correct. The full thing bhai sahib said was that the bhagats only reached up to karam kand while japping kirtam naam and not satnam gurmantar - Vaheguru. Bhai Sahib says that they were then called from kram khand, became hs Sikhs and they then, under hukam of Satguru recited for the first time the bani that became part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This is not an insult to any bhagats, but simply illustrates that without Satguru, without Satnam Gurmantar - Vaheguru, no one can reach the ultimate stage. If you believe that the bhagats were already enlightend then answer these questions: 1) Why was not all writings of bhagats incorporated into Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? If they were enlgihtened beforehand then clearly ALL their bani would have been something we should read. 2)If bhagat kabeer ji was enlgihtened before, then how can you explain his external, earlier writings which contain sexist tones? If we accept What bhai sahib says we have an answer to the above two questions - The earlier writings were mot inlcuded because they were written before the bhagats recieved total enlgihtenment. The reason the particular banis that ARE included in Gurbani is because they were eevealed throu the bhagats after meeting guru sahib and gaining full enlightenment, because of this they were ale to channel perfect. pure dhur ki bani.
  9. Very offensive but just to clarify its not by NDTV is it? It says its by jayhindtv.
  10. You can get some kirpans in which all of the metal bit on the case is sarbloh - this wouldn't give you a rash. Just make sure there is no coating on the sarbloh or on top of the sarbloh handle of the kirpan. It should be rust prone,not coated with nickel or some other coating which may be causing the problem. You could also wear a banain (vest) and wear the kirpan on top of the vest.
  11. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/london-olympics-2012/news/Amitabh-Bachchan-to-carry-Olympic-torch-in-London/articleshow/15147750.cms LONDON: Megastar Amitabh Bachchan will carry the London Olympic torch here on Thursday, a day before the opening ceremony of the Games. The actor will be part of the relay team which will carry the torch. Bachchan, 69, tweeted that he would be carrying the Torch in London tomorrow at 10.30am. "OK !! HERE IT IS : Have been invited by London Olympic Organizing Committee to carry the torch in the relay tomorrow ...," Bachchan tweeted. "Honored to be asked to carry the Olympic Torch in London at Southwark around 10:30 AM !! A proud moment for me and country," he added. Bachchan is not the only celebrity to lend the Indian touch to the mega gaming event. Indian music maestro A R Rahman has teamed up with his 'Slumdog Millionaire' director Danny Boyle to compose a track for the inaugural event. "Clarifying the report on the Olympics track I am composing... It's a track in Punjabi celebrating the Indian influence in the UK. It's a part of a medley in the Olympics opening ceremony, according to Danny Boyle's creative wishes!," Rahman had written on his Facebook page. Illaiyaraaja's song is also set to feature in the medley of music tracks to be used in the inaugural programme.
  12. Photographer: http://atmaimages.com/ I think it will be almost impossible finding a catering team composed of all amritdharis... just stick with Guru Ka Langar! tastier than anything.
  13. Ang 1282 ਬਾਬੀਹਾ ਨਾ ਬਿਲਲਾਇ ਨਾ ਤਰਸਾਇ ਏਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਮੰਨਿ ॥ Baabeehaa Naa Bilalaae Naa Tharasaae Eaehu Man Khasam Kaa Hukam Mann || बाबीहा ना बिललाइ ना तरसाइ एहु मनु खसम का हुकमु मंनि ॥ O rainbird, do not cry out. Do not let this mind of yours be so thirsty for a drop of water. Obey the Hukam, the Command of your Lord and Master, ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਮੰਨਿਐ ਤਿਖ ਉਤਰੈ ਚੜੈ ਚਵਗਲਿ ਵੰਨੁ ॥੧॥ Naanak Hukam Manniai Thikh Outharai Charrai Chavagal Vann ||1|| नानक हुकमि मंनिऐ तिख उतरै चड़ै चवगलि वंनु ॥१॥ And your thirst shall be quenched. Your love for Him shall increase four-fold. ||1|| Just keep following the path. Do everything the Guru tells you to do, i.e. Amrit (Khande di pahul), naam simran, bani, rehat.
  14. You've explained why badal's sitting on a chair, you havent explained why Dhumma is hugging him like a Sant or Guru Sahib! This guy Dhumma lays claim to the dastaar (lineage) of Mahapurash like Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji and Sant Baba Kartar Singh Ji. You think they would ever be in a pose such as the below with Badal? This photo says alot about the relationship between the two of them.
  15. So this bhekhi takes the roop of Guru Sahib- dhari, dumalla and kara, acts totally opposite to what it represents, and then insults the great Satguru it is based on! Poser or what! and then says this when he gets questioned: (from facebook)
  16. It is not beadbi to marry a 'white person' or anyone of any race, and neither is it a 'problem'. The only problem and beadbi is someone non sikh or not willing to accept sikhi attempting to take part in the anand karaj ceremony. I'll say it again, nowhere in Sikhi, not in any scripture or any present day authority such as Akal Takht, is there a ban on marriage between people of different races, the only ban is on a person not of the Sikh faith wanting to take part in the Sikh ceremony to get married! In line with this there has never been and never will be any protest against any anand karaj because of the race of any of the parties! I don't know what motive you have in trying to make us sikh community look racist, troublemaker. if the guy getting married has agreed to accept sikhi and add singh to his name, then according to akal takht there is no problem at all.
  17. I can't see any reference to Panj Pyare being present in the links you have provided. Where did you get this information from? However, if it is true, I am sure that their intentions were good, but presence of Panj Pyare would be very very wrong. The punj pyare are the roop of Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself. Can you imagine Guru Sahib doing something like this? Guru Sahib is malik of the three worlds, he would not be involved in any such trivial worldly event! Sure the torch coming outside the Gurdwara Sahib is fine, but there should certainly not be Panj Pyare! Look at the attitude of Guru Sahib's Sikhs let alone Guru Sahib himself: (Sant Baba Bishan Singh Ji Muralewale) Baba ji had such a good lifestyle and had reached a great spiritual state that once on the night of Diwali, a few Gursikhs asked them to come outside and see the candles and lights the sangat had lighten. Baba ji gave them the following reply: "For many years now I haven't looked up to see the ceiling of this room. I haven't seen the moon, the sun or the stars. Why do we need to see these lights of the universe? Let me stay here and see the light of Waheguru in my heart, the lighter of all of these lights."
  18. Do you expect Sardar Bal to empty his pockets for the channel? Don't you think he's given alot already; like his time, the studios, and STARTING IT UP. Sikh channel has VIRTUALLY NO ADVERTISING and they offer ANYONE to come onto it. Why can't we repay that? Our community expects everything for free. Also, for whatever political motives the Sikh community have, we like to shoot ourselves in the foot, cut our nose off to spite our face instead of looking at anything positive. Do you not see the positives for the Sikh community as a result of such a headline as 'Sikh channel behind Birmingham tv' ? Non-sikhs will see that Sikhs are behind a channel representing one of the UK's biggest cities, rightly so considering how much of the brum population is Sikh. It shows that the UK Sikh community is not only integrated and wanting to contribute to the wider English community, but that it has the power, money and organisation to do so. There is also the influence the Sikh community will have behind a major mainstream channel, or would you prefer that Muslims get behind it pumping their own propaganda like they have with most of the rest of the media? God our community is so insularised and small minded.
  19. Whats there to discuss? These central topics happen to be the central topics of Guru Granth Sahib Ji! Go straight there! Point being, alot of youth nowadays seem to think that we should focus on our vikaars and try to defeat whatever one is bothering us the most individually. The idea people have is that we should deal with our problems, then we can do our sikhi routine. That idea couldnt be more incorrect. The very point of the daily routine of naam and bani supplemented by rehat is TO remove these problems. Sikhi is the path of sehaj. Its like when trying to lose weight, its well known you cant target a particular area of your body and try to lose weight from there. You need to follow a general health and fitness regime for your whole body. Thats what daily sikhi (you can call it a sweet,beautiful, joyous regime) is for our vikaars and problems. The follower of either regime needs to be patient, but at the same time 100% committed and devoted and believing that the regime will bring the desired result (so that he or she doesn't give up!) Take amrit, follow rehat- amritvela, naam, nitnem, extra bani aswell as physical rehats, and everything will fall into place. The supreme hukam of naam jap means we must keep our mind occupied by naam at all times, so make the difficult constant effort to jap naam all the time, and when any of the vikaari thoughts come, let the naam drown it out. Forcefully push the thoughts away with simran, dont stop the simran. More bani will make our concentration stronger. Just keep at it. The path the Guru has laid out for us is perfect and all encompassing, all the problems and vikaars we need to overcome and everything we want to achieve is gotten sehaj naal while just doing your bit of obeying what Guru Sahib tells you. This is the purpose of all of Guru Sahibs hukams. Part of our routine includes sangat of gursikhs (as per gurbani sat sangat is where naam simran is done). Do ardaas to Guru Sahib to get sangat of Gursikhs and Gurmukhs- this can provide an immense boost those who feel they have gotten much too stuck within any particular vikaar or vikaara.
  20. I thnk you mean to say it was only rediscovered in the mainstream recently. To preempt the question of how this vidiya was so unknown- just look to our own generation or or parents generation to see how much of any vidiya is known to anyone. amritdhari sikhs, and within that those that actually do deep khoj even now are still only 000000.1% (virle keeyee ke). Just imagine the effect of the sikh holocausts ghaluugare, wars and jungle living followed by corruption in the times of maharaj ranjit singh and british raj effected vidiya in sikhs.
  21. You know what, im not a fan of ik oankaar, I think i will imagine that it just says oankaar, that way I wont be limiting bani to saying there is only one oankaar like some rigid fundamentalist!!!!! - this is the mentality of vykaran disbelievers.
  22. So I take it you will start intepreting bani by ignoring akhars to see different words then? good luck lol
  23. Some are arguing that "gurbani is not bound by vyakaran", now how about if someone else came along and said that bani isnt bound by letters either and that you can ignore letters sometimes to see different words as you get more meanings?? You would obviously find that absurd and total manmat. So why is it that the effect on meanings of the siharis, aunkars etc can be ignored as if they just arent there? If I write a sentence with a comma in it, you cant just ignore the comma to get two meanings out of it, its just common sense. Or how about if you just start ignoring dandis at the end of lines and join two lines together to create new meanings? You would call that crazy. Well that my friends is vykaran also. Or even further, shabad headings cannot bind the meanings of gurbani, we should be able to read a whole ang as we see fit. Lets join the end of one shabad to the start of another. lol.
  24. The only reason for a job is to earn so you can sustain yourself and your family, and so you can give to others. You only need a job which can achieve that. Our REAL true potential is not gonna be unlocked through a job or any worldly activity. Our real true potential will be unlocked by following the path of Gurmat, of trying to find Vaheguru. Take up the real challenge, the job which will give you the greatest reward. So smile! As long as you can do naam simran and recite/hear Gurbani, nothing has been lost. In fact as a Sikh you have Guru Sahib so you have everything! Remember, the spark of Vaheguru is within you! ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Aasaa Mehalaa 5 || Aasaa, Fifth Mehl: ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥ Bhee Paraapath Maanukh Dhaehureeaa || This human body has been given to you. ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥ Gobindh Milan Kee Eih Thaeree Bareeaa || This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe. ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ ॥ Avar Kaaj Thaerai Kithai N Kaam || Nothing else will work. ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥ Mil Saadhhasangath Bhaj Kaeval Naam ||1|| Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1|| ਸਰੰਜਾਮਿ ਲਾਗੁ ਭਵਜਲ ਤਰਨ ਕੈ ॥ Saranjaam Laag Bhavajal Tharan Kai || Make every effort to cross over this terrifying world-ocean. ਜਨਮੁ ਬ੍ਰਿਥਾ ਜਾਤ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਕੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Janam Brithhaa Jaath Rang Maaeiaa Kai ||1|| Rehaao || You are squandering this life uselessly in the love of Maya. ||1||Pause|| ਜਪੁ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥ Jap Thap Sanjam Dhharam N Kamaaeiaa || I have not practiced meditation, self-discipline, self-restraint or righteous living. ਸੇਵਾ ਸਾਧ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇਆ ॥ Saevaa Saadhh N Jaaniaa Har Raaeiaa || I have not served the Holy; I have not acknowledged the Lord, my King. ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਮ ਨੀਚ ਕਰੰਮਾ ॥ Kahu Naanak Ham Neech Karanmaa || Says Nanak, my actions are contemptible! ਸਰਣਿ ਪਰੇ ਕੀ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਸਰਮਾ ॥੨॥੪॥ Saran Parae Kee Raakhahu Saramaa ||2||4|| O Lord, I seek Your Sanctuary; please, preserve my honor! ||2||4||
  25. I think you should clear this with Guru Sahib. Its wrong to do something like that. You recieve a grade off the back of a lie and you would be earning off the back of a lie. Not trying to make you feel bad or anything, but students work hard to do their work (I should know, having just finished my degree!) its not fair on others to take a shortcut like that.
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