Not2Cool2Argue

On 8/23/2022 at 11:08 PM, singhdalbir said:

if you do a ardass for Khalistan then at the end you say sarbat da bhala how does that make sense.

We are accepting the English meaning. The real meaning of Nanak name chardo Kala tere bane sarbat da bhala. Actually means In your hukam, everyone is well off. It means whatever you do is good for everyone. It's another way of saying Tera bhana Mitha laage. That with naam I am in chardi Kala and I accept that your hukam is best for everyone. So I don't need to ask for anything or try to change your hukam. Just accept it as all is well. 

It does not mean I ask for the welfare for all. It's the exact opposite. It means I don't need to ask or do anything as you already do the best and take care of all.

On 7/23/2022 at 10:10 PM, dharamyudh said:

You're 100% right. Sects absolutely destroyed us. Heck, I'm even trying to overcome my own personal biases because of it. Dal Khalsa was one unified unit with a unified group of people, beliefs, marayada etc. It was one of the reason why things like the Sarbat Khalsa and jathedari worked so well in the past. However, as many of us have seen, these things are so difficult to apply in the current Sikh world due to these jatha loyalties. 

There were always sects. The beauty was we could still be united and respect each other yet be different.

Just look at dasam pitas time. He told bhai nand lal ji not to fight, supported bhai khaniya ji's anti-violence agenda. Had hindus and muslims and mercenaries in his army. Send most women away from the fight (including mata jis) but allowed mai bhago to fight.

Contradictions and opposing views everywhere. 

And also had a vaishnav and meat langar at the same time.

Then later there were the sikhs who lived in jangals and fought. Then city sikhs like subheg singh and shabaaz singh. Then farmers like bhai taaru singh. Village dwellers like the singhaniya in mir mannus jail. 

No time was there when all sikhs were shastardhari, living in jangals.

In fact there were udasees, seva panthis, bedis, nirmale,  tarna dal vs budha dal division, then misls, followed by sikh rajas vs akalis. Then naamdhari showed up. 

The arguments in the 1900s were numerous. If sachkhand is an actual place vs avastha. If meat is allowed. If padshed is allowed. Dasam granth. If dakhani onkaar is actually called Onkaar Bani (pamphlet on that by Bhagat puran singh)

And dont just blame the akjs. Many other sects dont believe in brahm kavach as part of dasam etc. 

I think the vaaja should have an important nostalgic place in our gurudwaras. It is a symbol of how sikhi spread to the masses, how it triumphed under colonial rule. How when the british were busying destroying our culture, taking away kaide/books and shastar away from our ppl. Sikhs co-opted their instrument and spread sikhi. Like the miniature saroops of SGGS used in the world wars. Part of our history of how Sikhs kept sikhi alive in hard times. And should be revered. 

Puratan is important so we don't lose any of our magnificent history and culture and skills. But it shouldn't stop us from adding more skills to our repertoire. 

Like maharaja ranjit adding cannons to his army and learning from the European soldiers about military training. (BTW most of those Europeans were french/Italian who having lost the napoleonic wars fled east and their hatred of the English is what attracted them to ranjit singh)

On 6/23/2022 at 9:21 PM, Singh375 said:

Got excited reading title of this thread, I thought you were going to ask about re-born souls in the panth, because there’s thousands right now on earth

Tell us more

On 5/26/2022 at 9:49 AM, dallysingh101 said:

Saw a relative who had a young kid recently, he had one of these for his son. I notice the company seems to have female version in their plans too? 

 

https://www.khalsatoystore.com/shop/view/3

Yeah a family member had it shipped from UK. Yes there is a Tegh Kaur in the works. 

But someone was saying that we should have Sikh figures as nurses, doctors, fire fighters...but I don't know if that's a good idea. We don't want Sikh ppl to identify only with worldly success and consider some jobs as better...it just deeply cements the panjabi sociopathic capitalism...but it is hard for kids to relate to these warrior types when all Sikhs they know aren't ones. Then again superheroes aren't relatable either...

Have you heard of the organization atam pargas? They are trying to bring back the preclinical method of education back based on Leitnwrs work. 

Also I would say Leitner is right. My Nani can read panjabi because she learned at the local gurdwara. They would use sticks to right oora aira in the dirt when learning. So even women were allowed to learn before 1947. And another Bibi learned at a church. But she quit to make money from her embroidery on the Pakistan side of panjab. So I would say even the most rural and poor people were literate. 

Wasn't it Guru Nanak Dev ji himself who changed doing lavan around havan to around ptothi sahib? I think it's mentioned in janam sakhis  maybe? 

Also lots of our ancestors were not strictly Sikhs so we shouldn't go by what they did. They just followed the local Brahmans and what their ancestors had done. And did not want to change to the new way of sikhi. 

Any even if the modern anand karaj is not puratan, is there any reason to go back? The modern anand karaj was made during 1900s when the Sikhs were going thru a literary revolution similar to Europe's great enlightenment when lots of lost and hidden manuscripts were brought to light and the Sikhs had khalsa diwaans where Sikhs reached a consensus on maryada ardaas etc.

Why would you want to bring back practices that tie us closer to Hindus or sonatas dharam? Then what's the use of sikhi? We might as well become sanatan if we think there's nothing wrong with sanantan dharam. And all the updates and changes the Gurus and Sikhs did were not needed. 

14 hours ago, KingJohal said:

Was thinking about this subject recently and found a great post on Medium regarding this so thought I would share it here. This is a very interesting topic we need to all think about seriously.  

https://medium.com/@khalsasant/khalistan-and-israel-a166052b62b2

I think Jewish ppl are 1000 years ahead of us in history. Sikhs are only at the part where Jewish tribes were being exiled from Isreal at the time of the Egyptian empire. 

If we want to continue following their path and finally have success (ie Khalistan)  then we have to do what they did: keep a distinct identity, a growing population, and a millennial long strategy of enmeshing ourselves into powerful positions in economic and scie tific centers of those countries we immigrated to.

Although, I don't really buy the Jewish ppl are the mastermind behind the whole world economics etc that others above believe. I think if ppl remain smart and alert to their surroundings, and get rich enough without falling prey to vices, most ppl can have similar success to Jewish ppl. 

I remember reading the life of the father of Zionism. He was an intellectual growing up in 1900s Europewho supported communism like any other educated person in the 1900s. (Like most educated ppl support liberalism/social justice now esp sikhs) Life was good until the depression hit, and anti-semitism swept up Europe. Then like any other person, he felt hurt and stated we need our own country where we aren't pushed out after 100 years at the whims of governments and he thought the best place for this country was their origin: Isreal. Ofc it was just an idea but it spread in jews circles (yes they always had a religious idea of Iimportance of isreal before but it had never been articulated so clearly for political wellbeing of jews). And when the jews had the chance, they made that idea a reality. 

Yes there were Jewish families bank rolling kings and wars. But that'slike the Indian govt  getting paranoid because the Canadian minister of defense is a Sikh. Has nothing to do with Sikh interests or khalistan. 

 Currently there might be jews among the elite monopolies controlling the world. But the fact of monopolies is more dangerous than them being jews..

18 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

I am sure most of you know the story about Akali Phula Singh sentencing Ranjit Singh to be whipped allegedly for marrying a Muslim dancer.

Why was it on this one occasion that Ranjit Singh was deemed to have crossed the line?

In particular, why was his general drunkenness and womanizing tolerated?

The concept of being sehajdhari and nanakpanthi was big. Religion back in the day was more about allegiance than following it to the letter. 

Amrit shako, kes rakho wasn't a big rally cry. Think about it a century before ranjit singh, it would be ridiculous to begging ppl to take amrit when they could be killed tortured for it. It was imperative that you do it of your own free will.

And because ranjit Singh was from a Sikh family, maybe that was enough to be Sikh. 

17 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I think it's not that it was him barely getting punished, it was the fact that he was even punished at all that should be surprising. I'm going to say something controversial, but Rehat meant something different to olden Sikhs and modern Sikhs. (Most of the right-wing view on Maryada only happened when Bhai Randhir Singh came in the world and Damdami Taksal went from a Samparda into a Jatha under Sant Sundar Singh Ji). 

Wow. You've grown up!

I would never have expected such a deep insight esp a controversial one from you. I had pegged you as a really black and white, this is the one correct way poster.

The  credit goes to @dallysingh101 and Sikh awareness forum ofc. Showcasing of the puritan ithihaas thru olden granths, historical/contemporary accounts was a major wake up call to Sikhs. Ofc it might also be due to nihangs. Their bringing back all the things we had successfully repressed...time will tell if it's a good thing..

On 3/16/2022 at 6:47 AM, californiasardar1 said:

 

What is the incentive for a Sikh man to keep his kesh these days?

 

- Discrimination in most (if not all) aspects of day-to-day existence

- Extreme difficulty getting married

- You spend your entire life maintaining your identity, only to watch your children and grandchildren discard their kesh

- Even in the one area of existence where keeping kesh should be viewed as a positive (in the Sikh community), you have to deal with monay constantly going on about how keeping your kesh does not mean you are a good person and therefore keeping kesh is not important blah blah blah. In fact, being mona might make you a BETTER Sikh because at least you are not a hypocrite like those people with long beards blah blah blah. And then you see monay becoming CM of Punjab, being labelled shaheeds and panthic heroes etc.

- Also, if you are a mona, you have the flexibility of growing some stubble and throwing a pagh on your head whenever you want. And when you don't feel like it, you can shave off your stubble and get rid of your pagh. Isn't that flexibility great!

 

 

So if:

1) keeping your kesh is a liability in all non-religious aspects of daily life

and

2) keeping your kesh has no utility in religious life (and maybe it is even a liability these days)

then why would anyone want to do it?

In your answer, u only mentioned what people think i.e. coworkers/boss or other Sikhs. But for Sikhs, it's most important what the Guru says. 

Yes what you mention is important. At least Sikhs should respect Sikhs. But a Sikh quickly has a downfall if he/she forgets to keep focus on guru and sikhi. Other people will always try to belittle those who try to be better or try to be good. Even the Gurus own brothers tried to hurt them. Also you can tell.the moneh, I keep my hair cuz the Guru says to. Not to be a good or better human. And my hair shows I put sikhi first esp before fashion unlike you guys.

8 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

What makes me laugh is that the US is well known for it's neo-nazis and she's calling this place out! I mean, the US's not exactly a place where racial tensions are unknown - and that too for a LONG while. 

I've met black doctors and professionals from here, who've told me some shocking stuff about they were treated and threatened when they passed through certain areas out there.  

"What'chu doing here boy!"

I was referring to Sikh extremism. Even across the pond we hear of the infighting, the different sects, like Niddar Singh, the chatke being done by the nihangs. Any sect in sikhi has a hard-core following in the UK, and has no tolerance for any other. They are able to whip up youngsters to follow them and to be intolerant towards others.

Also the incident you were referring to is not the only one. There was one about a couple claiming to be Mai bhago etc and punishing people. So it's important all Sikhs learn not to take the law and punishments into their own hands. This gives an opportunity for fringe elements in the panth to start their own cult. We need to emphasize the panthic way. And not to have any <banned word filter activated> and Harry create  their own interpretation and implementation of sikhi.

22 hours ago, justasking said:

For a Sikh what sort of punishment are we supposed to let out on those who sin like those who kill, cheat on spouse, adultery, theaf . rapist. drunkyard,  what would be there punishment according to Sikhi

As a Sikh, u have no authority to punish anyone. Unless ur part of the panj pyare and someone comes to you to confess or get help.

There have been cases esp in that extremist haven UK, where individual Sikhs have taken the law into their own hands and thought they had the authority to punish other Sikhs. Some even got together 5 of there own gang and deemed themselves panj pyare and beat up a person for a transgression. 

Stop this nonsense. Stop trying to bring back puratan sikhi and stop trying to be arbitrators. 

Just go be pesh at an amrit sinchaar and get tankhaah of 21 japji sahib or something. If it's too tame of a punishment, do simran 24 hours if u have to. There's no call to give physical punishments. 

On 1/8/2022 at 2:13 AM, Jassu said:

No, I mean if a Syrian was walking outside in the US without his skull cap (they don’t even wear those there btw) and they also saw a Sikh man wearing a turban outside; they would think that the Sikh was the Arab and not vice versa. This is how Americans think.

Also, one drop rule is dumb. Pretty much everyone in the US is mixed, even the ‘white’ people. All those Stormfront types get so mad when they take a DNA test and find out that their great great great great great grandfather Cletus shagged a slave woman lol.

That actually happened to me. Lol.

I was with my Pakistani friend. And the taxi driver was like Salam alaikum, would you like some freshly butchered cow meat? I was like Salam but I'm vegetarian. My friend who looks normal was like I'm the  Muslim, that's a Sikh.

This was in Dominica, a small country next to Jamaica. So it's not just Americans who are ignorant. I think it's anybody not living in a multicultural city.

On 1/7/2022 at 3:48 PM, lostguy said:

 

One thing i have to say is that it remains in the back of my mind that at any given moment i can fall off from this path again like i have so many times before, and that is scary for me because i really want this to be the time where i finally commit forever to Sikhi and hopefully one day I can go pesh to panj pyare before retaking amrit. But my fear of falling off again is holding me back from doing this.

Good to hear from you.

It's wonderful the difference gurbani makes.

About your fear about falling off the path. Thats actually a good thing. It's a hard lesson to learn. That sikhi is not to be taken for granted. That it is not in our hands. Its the first step on the path to letting go of ego. Turn fear into gratitude. For now ur into sikhi, Thank mahraj, because to get out of mental issues and avoid maya is not easy. He helped you out. 

And if you fall off again, remember it's bhana. God's will. Each time you fall, you will learn something new. Just make sure to rise again. 

For now enjoy the high. It's amazing how life can be blissful

Chardi Kala! 

10 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Not going to happen, there is a difference in what should happen and what is happening.

There has to be another approach

Another approach could be to have really good panjabi media. Many girls even Sikh girls are able to understand Korean from watching Korean dramas.