hsingh68

But historical evidence is not a necessary part of a rehatnama. I said the information that goes against gurmat in rehatnamas cannot be trusted not that the whole rehatnama is invalid. My point is we must use our brains. I have nothing against rehatnamas only the parts where the information stated is against gurmat like the colour red being a bad colour.

Of course we can but this can be dangerous as people who believe in anything generally end up in cults and lead others astray. Why isn't he sitting outside me? But still I will not call my self a Guru as no human can be a guru.

Mahapurak is only used for guru no other person can be called a saint or Guru. Only guru is our true saint and Guru. So the use of mahapurakh in that sentence is incorrect.

You take that as literal meaning? So you walk with a walking stick, will remain virgin all your life and wear a patched coat? Clearly you do not!

They could be, a very valid point there my friend. But it's clear that in History Guru gave kes as a kakar to the sikhs in 1699.

But I just told you that you are misinterpreting the tuks. By the way it is clear that Gurbani in some cases should not be taken literally but as metaphors and examples in some cases. iKMQw kwlu kuAwrI kwieAw jugiq fMfw prqIiq ] khi(n)thhaa kaal kuaaree kaaeiaa jugath dda(n)ddaaparatheeth || Let the remembrance of death be the patched coat you wear, let the purity of virginity be your way in the world, and let faith in the Lord be your walking stick. If I take the above line as literal meaning then I should be wearing a patched coat and somehow being a virgin makes you pure compared to someone who is married with kids. And I should be carrying a walking stick. Like I said be careful in how you interpret gurbani you got to use your logic.

सूहवीए सूहा वेसु छडि तू ता पिर लगी पिआरु ॥ Sūhvī▫e sūhā ves cẖẖad ṯū ṯā pir lagī pi▫ār. O red-robed woman, discard your red dress, and then, you shall come to love your Husband Lord. ਸੂਹੈ ਵੇਸਿ ਪਿਰੁ ਕਿਨੈ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਦਝਿ ਮੁਈ ਗਾਵਾਰਿ ॥ सूहै वेसि पिरु किनै न पाइओ मनमुखि दझि मुई गावारि ॥ Sūhai ves pir kinai na pā▫i▫o manmukẖ ḏajẖ mu▫ī gāvār. By wearing her red dress, no one has found her Husband Lord; the self-willed manmukh is burnt to death. ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਸੂਹਾ ਵੇਸੁ ਗਇਆ ਹਉਮੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਮਾਰਿ ॥ सतिगुरि मिलिऐ सूहा वेसु गइआ हउमै विचहु मारि ॥ Saṯgur mili▫ai sūhā ves ga▫i▫ā ha▫umai vicẖahu mār. Meeting the True Guru, she discards her red dress, and eradicates egotism from within. This does not make a red a bad colour. Here I believe it is talking about TRUE marriage. Getting married in hinduism and sometimes sikhism involves wearing a red dress. But the marriage is temporary and not true as it doesn't make you married to God as back then when getting married people (especially hindus) used to call their husbands GOD/pARMESHAR and getting married with them would grant you mukhti but this is superstitious. Getting married to God is about losing the egotism therefore TRUE marriage. A red dress can not be blamed.

But do you get my point, if we take the meaning literally so the red colour (red colur to be blamed or praised) then it makes Gurbani contradictory. The lines you posted and I posted were metaphors. If taken in a literal sense then it makes the colour red good in one line and the other line bad, which is not the case.

You unknowingly proved my point. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਲਾਲੋ ਲਾਲੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਉ ਰੰਗਿ ਮਜੀਠ ਸਚੜਾਉ ॥ गुरमुखि लालो लालु है जिउ रंगि मजीठ सचड़ाउ ॥ Gurmukẖ lālo lāl hai ji▫o rang majīṯẖ sacẖṛā▫o. The Gurmukh is the deepest crimson of crimson, dyed in the permanent color of the Lord's Love. crimson is a deep red colour. The 1st line you posted does not make red a bad colour either.

I don't know for sure that's why I put a question mark in front of tampered in my post. But a statement like that makes no sense it contradicts everything in gurbani. We sikhs don't believe in superstitions.

No there isn't in the GGS but in the rehatnamas there are.

That is still not enough proof these sources can also have been tampered with? I don't believe it as it makes no sense but on the other hand gurbani always makes sense and we can always say this is the words by our Guru as I always see logic behind it. Clearly this is incorrect be careful in what you read. Red is a colour and a beautiful colour it is. So if I wear a red shirt to work will I be punished by death??? Clearly not.

Guru Manayo Granth by our only true saint/Guru (Guru Gobind singh Ji) Saint refers only to guru no one else we do not need to follow any words from dehdaris.

This is a gift to mankind absolutely blissful :respect:

So what Bhai nand Lal said really true? wearing red will get you punished by the so called 'messenger of death'. This clearly needs to be revised as superstitions are not apart of the sikh religion. We are not Hindus! This can't be true so all the people I see wear red are going to get hammered by some messenger. :stupidme:

Don't know why my previous post got deleted? I have been through a similar situation to you where I have cut my hair and dhari but my reasons were different and probably worse because I was amritdari. Anyway I hope this will help you decide what you want to do and how you can mentally come in terms with what has happened. It all started when I was young and my family all used to go to the gurdwara and attend the weekly sunday diwaans. Although the problem was the parchaar at the gurdwara was really militant and it involved the use of fear tactics and guilt so people would take amrit. They used to say "the jamdoots will smack your head in and the only way to be saved from their strikes is by taking amrit" and "only people who have taken amrit will get liberated the others are subjective to the reincarnation cycle which is painful." Also they used to call everyone paapi and manmukhs who didn't take amrit. That these manmukhs were wasting their time by doing path and simran because it doesn't count as they haven't taken amrit and haven't learnt how to do naam from Guru. Guru is angry at these manmukhs!!! All the above scare tactics and guilt trips made me and my family take amrit. Well it's been over 15 years since I had taken amrit and to be frank my family persuaded me to keep my kesh and tie a pagh as it comes with rules for taking amrit. I was also willing to follow all the rules and rehits that came with taking amrit as well because it would keep my family happy and it would mean getting this mukhti and guru's love. So for the last 15 years I did everything from following rehit and japping naap with as much love for God. For the first 5 years I struggled following rehits and adjusting to the new lifestyle which came with the package but what was painful was eating out of Iron plates! Eating from amrtidharis was another tough thing to do because it was so few of us. Waking up every morning at 1 am and staying awake (attending amritvela sangat) till work was really difficult and in this time doing naam and gurbani was also tiring. The worse thing was I also did panj piareah di seva a few times and made a lot of amritdhari friends in the process where I would regularly attend the gurdwara. This continued for 10 years and by the 10th year I was exhausted following this tedious routine and I told my family I can't just keep you happy all my life. I had to make a stand on what I wanted to do and live how I wanted to otherwise I would look back and regret how I lived trapped all my life supposedly following a superior lifestyle, which it never was. But my family begged me that if I cut my hair it would mean humiliation for them and they would disown me. I cried and explained to them that I can't live this lifestyle it hasn't made me happy all this time and all they cared about was what others would say. So and so's child has cut their hair and he was amritdari what besti it was for them but I told them this shouldn't matter to you because I am your child and you should try to make me happy and not what others want. My family begged me and told me to try for a few more years and I reluctantly agreed to this. I tried my best to increase my pyar for sikhi by doing as much seva as possible did over 50 paats of SGGS and lots of naam so Guru ji could knock some sense into my mind so my family would love me and I would obtain guru ji's charan. I was still unhappy and so after 15 years of taking amrit I decided to cut my hair and my family were angry but after a few years they have calmed down and accepted me for who I am. But I remember at that time my dad in particular lost it and gave me a number of threats and he said that if anyone asks me about you I will say you are dead and I have no son.. and further he said if you ever get married don't even dare ask me to attend as you are dead to me. He also used to complain to God for why they had given them a son. But things have calmed down since then and my life has taken a much positive turn and I am much happier. Since then i have also done a lot better in my job and social life, which has helped my family believe that I am not just a black sheep and am still a good person. I believe wearing a turban out of respect for your family is not a good idea from experience (I tried a lot of things to keep my family happy after cutting my hair) because it will give them a false sense of belief that you are coming back into growing your hair again (unless you are) and when you cut your hair next it will just crush them again. Be firm and tell them what you want in a respectful manner otherwise you will look back later in life regretting it. Show your family you are still a good person with cut hair..

This is wrong bhai sahb we are vaheguru's slaves. It seems like you are taking a hindu approach to God. When we do merge with parmatma we still keep our identities. Please refer to Bhai sahb Bhai Randhir Singh's Books for better understanding. For this we must get amrit from guru roop panj peeareaa and learn naam drir. Daas Harjas Singh