luckysingh99

. I think the above highlights the most common mistake. There are many out there, as we know that deny that it is Guru's bani and they claim that there is no regard for akaal purakh (many akj's, I think!) and then argue about it's inclusion. Then there are the majority lke me, who have always accepted it as bani, but see it more of a seal or index of raags. In the last 24 hours, I have learnt something fascinating !! Thanks to the members that pointed in th right direction,- - I can now see and appreciate that just the beginning where it describes 'There is One Raag with 5 wives'' is not being literal or totally poetic. - It is talking about ONE God and the 5 primal sounds or panch shabad !! From the One came the 5 sounds, is mentioned throughout the granth as we know. Just as a seed is at the beginning, this is 'ek onkaar'. Then we have the root(mool mantar), and the trunk (japji sahib),and then the branches (the Adi granth upto page 1429) and finally the Flowers that blossom (rag mala-page 1430) !! From the above, I hope everyone can see and appreciate that without the flowers, there is no completeness and the flowers don't summarise the whole growth stage from the seed either !! For those of you who are unsure of the real significance (like I was), I urge you to contemplate and give this last page some time ! Thanks to singh1234567 and chatanga for the influence ! Waheguru and enjoy your christmas holidays off work ! :biggrin2:

I never thought of that, because I didn't think anyone spoke about it too deeply. Now you mention it, I will try and locate this and hopefully learn as well as advance forward. -Thanks!

Just read the mesage from basics of sikhi above instead of worrying about my presents and tree !!

Just a message for after we have dealt with the trees and presents. -Lets not forget th 27th........Basics Of Sikhi on Youtube and Facebook... on his channel he shared this. Sangat Ji, Important news from Punjab...please share far and wide Bhai Rajoana (letter of today) has asked that we all support the Akaal Takht sahib order that ALL SIKHS WORLDWIDE are to do a 15 minute meditation of 5 Mool Mantars and Vaheguru Simran on Thursday 27th December at 10:15am India time. Thats at 4:45am here in the UK (Amrit Vela). This is to remember the Shaheedi of the Younger Sahibzaade. Dont worry what length of mool mantar, just do it! As the year ends, lets get back into the feeling of Unity, if 22 million people globally come together, under One Nishaan Sahib and One Vaheguru, magic can happen. Please pass on, set your reminders, lets help each other get up and do this. Thursday, 4:45am, 15 mins of Simran and remembering the Shaheedi of our younger brothers and role models. Spread it - share it - Do it VJKKVJKF

I never said it doesn't teach anything or if it is meaningless. It is the final seal and I said that is is gurbani.(didn't I say that??) But it doesn't teach or give messages like the rest of the 1429 pages. If you can tell me the message it gives rather than conlusion, then I will happily admit I'm wrong and misinformed.

But why feel so weak, that you feel obliged to change your name ?? If a tree can have this effect on you, then is it you with the problem or the tree ??

That was a sensible and mature two pence.

Why don't you just wish everyone a rotten christmas and pray for their misery, seeing as you are a very rightous sikh ??

No need to apologize. It is just that if some newby were researching this and came across what we posted, I didn't want them to be misled into something else. I only learnt of this some time ago because a non-sikh had questioned me about it and they also mentioned the cosmotheism, which they thought was invented by sikhs !

Good one!! I said 1429 deliberatly so that one would notice! Loof carefully because I said the 'gurmat that 1429 pages teaches you' I have no argument or issue that page 1430 gurbani,- I accept it as bani, but does it teach you like the other 1429 pages? Do you see it as a seal as Guru Arjan Dev ji intended, a sort of summary or final round up ? We don't want to go off topic about raag mala, but personally the 1429 pages are what 'teach' you to be gurmukh in my opinion.

I am white. Why are you so concerned what I 'hope' for ? Do you have a problem with gora sikhs ?

NOTE- I stated that in 'theory' sikhism is closest to panentheism or can be put under that heading of description, BUT in reality you cannot define it according to these philosophical terms.

Merry christmas !! I hope we have a white one ! :lol2:

the previous quote of ''I'm more gora than a person that calls themselves one '' has not beeen understood by your good self. I should have explained it better or worded it a little different. What I'm saying is that I'm more british than most of the so called white brits that live there!!! How can that be, you ask ? Well my grandfather has been there since the late 40's. He was a turbanned sikh hero that fought at the frontline in WWII. By invite of the british goverment due to his service, he was invited to reside there. My father was born and raised there and so was I. Whilst being raised in heavy white areas, I faced a lot of racism but I would make it clear to the white folk that I was just as much if not more british than them, because my grandfather fought to save their country. Unlike others that arrived on so called banana boats, I made it clear that I was there on a completly different account and that they had no right to be predjudice against me or tell me to take my boat back home! I could go on, but you get the idea ??? I don't think you guys realise the racism that our parents and myself encountered at the hands of white man. We don't moan or complain about it because it was accepted as part of living at that time.

I believe that it was Bhai Gurdas Ji who composed or wrote this.

Simply put, I would say- Waho! Waho! Wonderous! Wonderous! Gobind Singh He is the Guru and the disciple!

Most of the posts on here differ to extents because it is an 'age' thing. I can tell that the younger ones have a more strong and ''I'm not doing that because it's not sikh' approach. The older ones seem to be more tolerant because we have learnt as we have aged to not be so strong and put in your own ways because then you come across as 'anti' to an extent. When I was in my younger days. I too was very 'I'm not doing that cuz I'm sikh' in many set ways. Infact at the gora school I was at, we used to say the lord's prayer before meals and assembly every day, AND I used to refuse to join in and would simply not say a word and not even 'amen'. Maybe it is good to have that mindset when young because it helps you from NOT selling out. However, I feel that once you pass this mark and get into a more responsible role in society and get more wise, -You realise that there is NO Chance of you selling out and drifting away, so you become much more tolerant and accepting. So, I feel that one's mostly over 35 yrs age, understand what i'm talking about. The younger ones will learn and change their views in years to come. BUT- it is probably good to be in that mindset when young as it keeps you strong and focused on the path.

You don't have to do anything do you ? You are free to do what you want. You may not have directly said anti christmas, but you make it clear that you feel cultural influences are anti sikh ! I, on the other hand don't sense or feel any negative impact on my sikhi, regardless of cultural activities. It seems that this is an issue that affects different people differently, and we should respect the different impacts even if we feel differently. Like I say, if you put a tree up and give presents and feel LESS of a sikh, then don't do it. BUT if it doesn't affect you, then it doesn't really matter does it ??

Some good points! You are what you eat, as they say !! Any one who does any cooking knows that when they cook something with love and prem, then it comes out tasting nice and you can feel the goodness. We have all experienced that special taste in a certain daal or sabzi from Gurdwara langar and no matter how well or exact to the same proportions you make it at home, it is still NEVER the same thing is it ??? Have you ever wondered why ??? I think you can understand the 'why' now, even though we can't prove it on paper, because taste is a perception! This all goes to show that the pureness, love and spirituality can be passed into the food no doubt. Since this thread started, I have realised the reason and logic behind the need for bibek discipline.

The problem is that you consider sikhi as a religion on par with other faiths when it is much more than that. Sikhi is about the way you live and it is a way of life. Being 'anti' -anything is not what the gurmat in the 1429 pages teaches you. This could be anti-gora, anti-christmas, anti-muslim, anti- white....etc... If you feel that being 'anti' makes you a better grmat sikh, then you should carry on proceeding in that manner. But don't try and grab others to be 'anti' in line with yourself.

I'm not an american or canadian,,but i'm prbably more gora than a person tha calls themselves one ! Is is a disorder ??? Am I seeing and imagining things ?? It doesn't really matter because I know who and what I am without having any insecurities. 'adapting' to cultural lifestyles is NOT selling out. If you feel it is, then it is your own innerself that has the fears and insecurities!!

If you think you only came over to the west to make money, then why don't you go back now that it's made ????? Christmas or trees has no affect on your sikh status whatsoever. All the problems arise when you start mixing indian culture with faith.

I don't know what makes you think if i'm amritdhari or not, but I don't own the culture here and I don't force my culture on to others. You are saying that if an amritdhari gives his kids christmas presents then he has disowned his own faith. A gurmukh should be humble and accepting of other cultures. Accepting doesn't mean that you let the white man make you one of them. Why should I disrespect and deny their culture if they give me a holiday and exra pay for this holiday ?? I don't have a problem or any fear of being white washed. The people that have fears are ones that have some inner insecurities and fears about their very own faith and status.

Too much hate ? I don't think you understood the message from bluespace's post ! Anyway, I'm trying to watch the Lakers game with my fellow North American country men !!

There are no sulas where I live!!!! We are in white mans land, so why the hell worry about eid and chopping your willy ?? Western ways does NOT mean accepting the cultural influences enforced on the rest of the population by pakis! Thats why punjabi sikhs are different, we don't go to other mans land and try to convert them all do we ??? I think your NUTS!!!! What if i'm married to a paki ??