munjoth

wow beautiful bani! just to touch upon two panktis right here: When we talk about darshan of one of the gurus, we saw this guru today, even some 'sants' say that the 10sm dwaar is made of gold doors, or dharam raja offered them juice there etc or sometimes while doing meditation we see photos of the guru, this is what is known as 'mrig thrisanaa' where we goto a place called 'ghandarb naagri' where one sees many illusions, where one will start seeing prakash of different colours and believe it to be parkash of vaheguru. We should be weary of these things. This is kaal trapping the seeker, and one who doesnt have guidance will get trapped here and it is near impossible to get out. Because there is alot of anand there the person doesnt want to get out. Gurbani says Satgur hai bautha shabad ligaavan har, thai paavan paavko jaal naa AKAAR thaithaa saacha saachnai paavjaal tharan haar gurbani is saying once you cross the bhav sagar there is no AKAAR (physical form), so where did pictures of 10 gurus come from? This is quite strange because we were discussing in another thread about the trigun and how these cruel pleasures lead us into many life forms. I mean it is quite pleasing you made this post! There are two types of sin, one that we can do with our physical body and even worse then that is the sins with commit with our minds. these sins are our thoughts, thoughts of KAAM, KRODH, LOBH, MOH, HANKAAR, EERKA, NINDYA, CHUGLI, DOOBA, NAAFRAT (lust, anger, greed, attachement, ego, ate, gossip, backbiting) LYING ...then materialistic thirsts, materialistic desires, aniexty, worries these are all vichaars/thoughts and these are sins committed by our minds! But guru gives us hope how do we beat these thoughts gurbani says; VICHAAR MARI THAARI THAARA OOLT JOON NAA AVI (kill all your thoughts and you wont have to come and go in reincarnation) The only way to do this is thru meditation!

Hunji i am also far from being a gurmukh, terms like gursikh - sant are used far too loosely. this is fine if you do not want to do sangat with sants. Gurbani outlines EACH AVAASTA in fine detail, so NO BODY can make a fool of another person, no body can portray themselves to be something there not. A gursikh is at this avaasta: JO SAAS GIRAAS DIYHI MERA HAR HAR SO GURSIKH GURU MAAN PAAVAI Now lets discuss who is sant as per gurbani, extracts taken from an article by rabinder singh: Sant is assigned the location where Anhad Sabad of God goes on all the time. Sant relishes this Anahad Sabad/Bani/Dhun "Teh geet Naad akharay sanga. Oohan Bhagat karay Har ranga." p-739 Now what is duty of a sant: Sants will brief the seekers on 'akath katha' the invisible path to reach the Supreme Being. This is their assignment. "Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo kath khanee." p-918 Where a sant is suppose to guide you to: The Sants have access to the Spiritual wealth of Anhad Bani and holds the key to this.They can help the seeker to this Anhad Sabad: "Anhad banee poonji. Santan hath rakhee koonji." p-893 Now sewa of a sant, many people here are MISINFORMED they think going to some dera touching a sants feet, doing all the choirs for a sant are his sewa GURBANI says other wise: SANT KI SEWA NAAM DHAIYA now once one has reached the anhad bani the sant then sends the seeker to GURU: who is first guru? first guru is PUNJ PYARA - they give you the 3 things: SO GUR KARO JO SACH DHRIRH AKATH KATHAI SHABAD MILAE BUT heres the catch in order to convince the punj we must do sewa of the guru, now what is this sewa: GUR SEWA GUR BHAGAT HAI - now from pervious posts it is clear that bhagati takes place chautha paad. Now the punj have given u darshan of saach, once they remove the 'paardah' u will have darshan 24/7 BUT u havent met god yet, its like seeing someone on stage but not actually talking to them. So the guru sends you to the SATGURUS DOOR. *note* once punj have given you the gifts they tell you that ur guru from then on is guru granth sahib ji AND we are to ask for guidence from guru ji only: POOCH CHALO GUR APNA and GURMILAE GURSHANK OOTHAAR Where is this door? What is the status of the mind at the door: "Sookh mehal jan kay ooch dwaray.Ta meh vassay bhagat piaaray." p-739 Now in order to open this door and meet the satguru we must first convince the satguru that we are worthy, once the mind reaches here it must wait until the satguru opens the door from the inside. what is the sewa: NAARDI SATGUR SEWAIYA NAARDI SEWA HOI and once the satguru is satisfied he will open the final door and give u this: BIN NAAMI MUKT NAAH PAVA KOEI BIN SATGUR KOEI NAAM NAA PAI This is the basic outline, it goes in much finer detail but only those that do the practical shall understand.

we shall discuss why we need to goto the sant first, how the sant sends u to the guru (punj) and then the guru sends u to the satguru, as per gurbani. We'll also look at the sewa sangat, sewa of a sant, sewa of guru and sewa of satguru - what each of the sewas are AND where each sewa takes u.

veer ji, just like you i spent a few years looking for a guide, someone to tell me what guru granth sahib ji was saying..lucky for me i only had to goto a few fake baba, in gurbani they are called 'kaal di sant' gurbani says SANT ANARI MAYA NAAL LOOJA - they are attached to this trigun and then bani says KATHNI NAAH SOOJA they will do katha, they will copy the real sants BUT they will never understand. Gurbani says when guru is happy with you he blesses with you with the saadh/sat sangat and to verify that you are attending the satsangat here are a few 'nishaani' (signs) that you have found the saadh sangat: SAT SANGAT KAASI JAANIA JITHA IKO NAAM VIKAHNAI and gurbani further clarifies what roop (form) naam takes in the sat sangat: AKATH KATHA HAR NAAM HAI Personally i have been getting sat sangat of those gurmukhs who have reached naam, who are at those levels we discussed in the previous posts. I myself am trying to get a paka assan at satogun so i can cross over! But this requires practice, learning the theory won't take long BUT the practical is where its at, the proof is in the pudding! Just by dong sat sangat of a bhagat WHO IS AT SOOKHMEHAL our sins are washed away: NANAK BHAGATA SAADA VIGAAS SUNAI DOOKH PAAP KAA NAAS The only site i can suggest is www.simran.info the person performing the akath katha is bhai sewa singh ji, he has done the practical and achieved highest status of the mind. Having done the practical he is now teaching others how to get there. In the uk we have Bhai Ajit Singh who also done the practical and is now teaching others.... In gurbani it says: SATGUR SATSANGAT CHITSAAL HAI JITHA HAR GUN SIKHA the satsangat is a school, where we goto learn 'hari di gun' the teacher is the one who has vaasa at the 4th state, and the principal of the school is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I sent you a message asking for your location, what country that is. There are other gurmukh who have done the practical in other countries such as america, canada, and europe. If you are from india you can go and visit the gurdwara 'prabh milne ka chao' and meet bhai sewa singh directly. This is a most wonderful thing to hear! Lets briefly discuss who guru ji calls khalsa: kahu kabeer jan bheae khaalasae praem bhagath jih jaanee ||4||3|| Bhagat Kabeer Ji Raag Sorath 655 kabir ji here says those are khalsa who realise bhagati! where does bhagati begin? TRIGUN MITTA CHAUTHA VAARTHI OONHA BHAGAT NIRAALI bhagati becomes once we rise above the trigun! Here again guru gobind singh ji tells us about the khalsa: pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai || at the moment we are nakhaalsa because we dont have the JYOTH, and those that do are the true khalsa! this again is when we go chautha paad, not in the trigun! Besoft ji we must first become sant, then present ourselves before guru roop punj pyara who will then give us the 3 gifts: So Gur Karo Jo Saach Dhrirh Akath Kathai Shabad Milae. Me being a moorkah took amrit before even reaching this status, my jeevan was tamogun but once i got the right sangat i realised the gifts that the punj are suppose to give us AND i realised the status of the mind before taking amrit.

sorry for the triple post! When besoft ji you start discussing about saadh sangat and simran we'll discuss how to rise above the trigun in further detail! As we keep asking the guru keeps telling us :D

The Player: There are two games that vaheguru has made, one that occurs during the day and one that occurs during the night, the game we'll discuss here is the one during the day. Each day when we wake up we come down to the trigun, from sato we goto rajogun - be it from sikh to brahamgyani it is hukum to goto rajogun and do work BECAUSE sikh is not a begger. So lets discuss the two ways the game is played. Now here is a difference upon how the game is played, In gurbani it talks about how the manmukh (sleeping mind) plays the game and the gurmukh (woken mind) plays the game. The manmukh player: The manmukh comes down to rajogun ....and the 5 demons come from TAMOGUN to RAJOGUN to capture the mind and take it to tamogun.....and the manmukh (mind is asleep) doesnt know it is taken between RAJOGUN and TAMOGUN all day...and ALL DAY the 5 demons make the mind spend its breathes on the rajogun and tamogun, this is the game - the 5 demons and kaal (devil) have hukum from vaheguru to make sure the mind spends all its breathes on rajogun and tamogun, make it forget the path to satogun The mind is told each day by vaheguru to make sure the 5 demons dont capture you! stray away from them as they will lead you into many pains. In gurbani the ROAD from RAJOGUN TO TAMOGUN is called DHAAT gurbani says: liv dhaat dho raah hai HUKUMI KAR KAMAI. The manmukh then goes to sleep unaware of anything, the mind doesnt know how it left the body upon goin to sleep and then the next day it is unaware how the mind came back. The gurmukh player: Now the gurmukh whose mind is awoken, those that have the NAAM are considered awaken. The gurmukh comes to satogun during the day...does his work...the 5 demons are unable to touch that mind because he has the NAAM. Then at the end of the day the gurmukh, knowing his way home, goes from RAJOGUN to SATOGUN ..crosses the bhavsagar and enters the 4th realm (chauthaa paad) The gurmukh always stay on the 'liv' path which in gurbani is what is called sant marg: SANT KA MARG DHARM KI PAURI KAU VAAD BHAAGI PAI. The gurmukh went to the guru, learnt how to play this game (akath katha) trained his mind (simran) and won this game! The manmukh never asked the guru how to play this game and loses this precious life. From this post and the previous one is should be stated that this is all about the mind NOT physical, the manmukh and gurmukh are statuses of the mind. By wearing a chola one does not become gurmukh, IT IS THE STATUS OF THE MIND.

besoft ji you are partially right and so is lowest of the low singhni ji. the trigun is what we call 'sookham maya' (unseen) - it is bestowed within us: RAJGUN SATGUN TAMGUN EHI KAHYA TERI SAAB MAYA. I will, with gurus kirpa, attempt to explain this with 2 different forms, one is when the mind is a vapaari (shopper) and one when the mind is a kaadari (player). The shopper: The mind comes to this trigun with a currency of the breathe. Like on the outside we have pounds/dollars/rupees etc on the inside we have breathes. In gurbani the breathe is refered to as ratan (precious jewels) because no value can be on put on them. The three shopping centres within us are SATOGUN, RAJOGUN and TAMOGUN...and the 4th one which is MUKTI Now from satogun the mind is allowed to buy the following: FAITH COMPASSION TRUTH HONOUR HUMILITY CHARTIABLE PATIENTS FORGIVEFUL When we spend our breath on rajogun the HUKUM is we are allowed to buy LIVELYHOOD so we need clothes, food, car, phone, house, money etc to survive this is the hukum. Now there are things on this shopping centre that vaheguru has forbid us to buy: materialistic thrists materialistic desires anxiety worries vichaar/thoughts ^^ We we buy this stuff it will cause us punishment, gurbani says: TRISHNA VAADA ROGUE LAAGA MARN MANO VISAARA (you will contract a big disease and it will go when u die) we then have tamogun: the HUKUM from vaheguru WHEN one is married is KAAM, this is for reproduction. but if ur not married you dont need to goto tamogun here we have the following: lust anger greed attachement ego jealousy hate gossip backbiting wanting anothers body wanting anothers wealth lying. Each of these will lead us into many 'joons' (lifes) each one has a punishment, i'll give one example: BADI BADI ANHKAARI NANAK GARBA GALI [the one with a big ego shall die in the womb of the mother again and again] please take note that i am talking about the MIND, where ever your thoughts go is where you will spend your breath, and CHITTAR GUPT will right this down: CHITTER GUPT SAAB LIKH DI LEKA and then at the end your SAAB will be done by dharam rai and he will give you the next joon according to where you have spent your breathes the most (rajo, tamo, sato). If we spend our breathes on the 4th hut we will receive naam which will take us out of all this. The way to do that is through meditation, kill all your thoughts gurbani says: VICHAAR MARI THAARA THARI OOLT JOON NAAH AVAI. In gurbani it says 'chaar paadarth laai jug aiya' (he came with the 4 cardinal blessings), who gave us these? the satguru did! In gurbani satogun is refered to as SUKH SAAGAR, rajogun is referred to as BIKH SAGAR (sea of posion) and TAMOGUN is referred to as AGAAN SAGAR (sea of fire)

Guru Ji tells us in the first pankti how to rise above hardships/pains/sorrows 'Dukh Bhanjan Tera Naam Ji' - beautiful bani but we must get to this naam in order to break this dukh. Bani here is telling us how to over come the disease that is caused by kaam, krodh, lobh, moh and hankaar...this disease of the 5 causes us pains and sorrows!! On a side note some people believe that by reading x amount of dukh bhanjani sahib will rid them of there pains this is false! When we reading bani we must realise what is being said, bani here is giving us a practical solution to our dukh! - sorry for going off topic

besoft ji, it is good that you are asking questions. But there is a slight problem to what you are doing. Everyone on this board will look at a tuk of gurbani and giving his or her own opinion on what it means, so your thinking 'well how does one understand gurbani?' 'what are the true meanings?' Well gurbani says if u want to understand me then do this: Eh Hi Bani Mahapurkhan Ki Nijghar Vaasa Hoe You want to understand bani? Then goto the nijghar, the 4th state and you will realise what gurbani is saying. If you want to stay here and try to realise what gurbani says then this is what happens: Trigun Saaba Dhaat Hai Par Par Kari Vichaar Mukt Kavi Naah Hovei Naah Paen Maukh Dwaar. In the three qualities there is only 'dhaat' - division/arguements/hate...you can read and vichaar all the gurbani you want but if u remain in the 3 qualities you will never find the 4th state where one will obtain the mukti/liberation/god. Instead of going through each paana of gurbani and reading it mechanically try this, become a khoji (researcher) and search the answer for these questions: What is our starting point? What was here before me? How did god create this body? How did god create this mind? Why am i here? How do i rise above the 3 qualities and get to the 4th? gurbani says: Raam Raam Bol Bol Khoj Ti Vaadbhagi The one that is meditating, japping naam and doing khoj (research) hand in hand is Vaadbhagi. There is no point in collecting gian it won't go with you, without bhagati we will drown here: Bhagat Bina Bhaut Dooba Siyani (without bhagati many wise men have drowned) Please forgive me for any mistakes, i just started seeing a trend in your posts and thought i would suggest a better way to research and aid you in your path!

wow a beautiful question to raise. Avaasta of a gurmukh: "gurmukh andar sahaj hai man chadhya dasve akaas. tithe oongh na bhukh hai har amrit naam sukh vaas. nanak dukh sukh vyapat nahin jithe aatam raam pargaas." He has assan chautha paad, he has sehaj, prakaash 24/7 and is drinking amrit russ 24/7. when gurbani is refering to being a sleep and being awake it is again talking in the context of the mind, here is the avaasta of a manmukh: Tin Gunni Sansaar Param Soota Sootai Rahn Veedani. Gur Kirpa Teh Seh Jun Jaagi The mind has come into the 3 qualities and taking so much russ from kaam, krodh, lobh, moh and hankaar the mind has fallen asleep here. and only thru the gurus kirpa will ones mind rise above the 3 qualities, goto the 4th and be awakened. The gurmukhs learn the 'jaaj' (the way) from the guru on how to rise above the 3 qualities and awaken the mind at the 4th state, once a mind reaches gurmukh status they are awake undin (day and night). Again this is avaasta of the mind not physical body.

lets first understand wot hukum is, gurbani says 'iko naam hukum hai' - the naam is hukum. now the mind that has 'buj' (grasped,known,realised,come to know) this naam in other words has this NAAM has understood and accepted his hukum, How? gurbani says: jinee guramukh naam dhhiaaeiaa vichahu aap gavaae || Guru Amar Daas Ji, Siree Raag, 28 On the other hand gurbani says: GURMUKH JINI NAAM NAAH BUJYA MAAR JAAMI AAVO JAI (those gurmukhs that dont 'buj' this naam will come and go in reincarnation) So you want to become gurmukh then we must go here: thrai gun maaeiaa mohu hai guramukh chouthhaa padh paae || The three qualities hold people in attachment to Maya. The Gurmukh attains the fourth state of higher consciousness. Guru Amar Daas Ji Siree Raag 30

I will be doing some khoj on this pankti before replying to you veer ji, please take a look at some of the other replies and my suggestion to that link i have provided

Definition of a gurmukh: "gurmukh andar sahaj hai man chadhya dasve akaas. tithe oongh na bhukh hai har amrit naam sukh vaas. nanak dukh sukh vyapat nahin jithe aatam raam pargaas." references to naad: anehadh baanee naadh vajaaeiaa ||3|| Guru Arjan Dev Ji Raag Aasaa 375 jaa kee dhisatt naadh liv laagai ||1|| rehaao || Bhagat Kabeer Ji Siree Raag 92

I think you misunderstood my post, akath katha tells u the path to get pass this bhav sagar. It is done by those that have crossed over and can now tell you the path, all of gurbani is akath katha - but to understand it u must meet those that know it! For we are translating gurbani with our own thinking. The other kathas (prem kathni, amar katha, gooj katha) can only be heard in the fourth state of spirituality. OUR BODY IS MADE OF FIVE ELEMENTS(WATER,AIR,FIRE,EARTH AND EATHER/AKAASH).GURU ARJAN DEV JI IN SUKHMANI SAHIB VERY ELABORATELY DESCRIBES THE TECHNIQUE TO TRANSCEND THE FIVE ELEMENTS. 1. AIR ELEMENT: GURUJI TELL US HOW TO CONCENTRATE THE MIND AND TRANSCEND THIS ELEMENT.THE ATMOSPHERIC AIR SOMETIMES FLOWS GENTLE AND IS AT OTHER TIMES FAST AND STORMY. THE PAON TAT (THE AIR ELEMENT) WITHIN THE BODY BEHAVES THE SAME WAY.ITS FLOW RISES AND EBBS. THE UNSTEADY BEHAVIOR OF AIR DISTURBS OUR MENTAL EQUILIBRIUM. WE NEED GURU SHABAD TO STEADY AND FOCUS OUR MIND IN THE VORTEX OF WIND WITHIN. JIO MANDIR KO THAAMAI THAMAN TIO GUR KAA SHABAD MANAH ASTHAMAN (PAGE 282) 2. WATER ELEMENT: AS A BOAT IS NEEDED TO CROSS A RIVER; SO, IS THE GURUSHABAD NEEDED TO FERRY MIND ACROSS THE WATER ELEMENT WITHIN THIS BODY.GURBANI SAYS. JIO PAAKHAAN NAAV CHARH TARAI PRAANEE GUR CHARAN LAGAT NISTARAI (PAGE 282) 3. FIRE ELEMENT: TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM THE ATMOSPHERIC HEAT, WE SEEK SHELTER IN THE SHADE. WE DO HAVE THE ELEMENT OF FIRE WITHIN THE BODY. GURU SHABAD PROVIDES SHADY SHELTER TO OUR MIND AND PROTECTS IT FROM THE HEAT OF THE FIRE WITHIN. JAH MAHAA BHA-I-AAN TAPTA BAHU GHAAM TAH HAR KE NAAM KEE TUM OOPER CHHAAM ( PAGE 264) WHERE THERE IS AWESOME AND TERRIBLE HEAT AND BLAZING SUNSHINE, THERE ,THE NAME OF LORD WILL GIVE YOU SHADE. DHARTI TAT ( EARTH ELEMENT):AS WE NEED LIGHT TO GO THROUGH DARKNESS; SO WE NEED LIGHT OF GURU SHABAD TO SEE OUR WAY THROUGH THE DARKNESS OF THIS EARTH ELEMENTS WITHIN. JEH PAINDAI MAHAA ANDH GUBAARA HAR KA NAAM SANG UJEEAARAA (PAGE 264) SKY ELEMENTS: SPACE IS INFINITE AND DISTANCES VERY LONG.EMBARKING UPON A LONG JOURNEY WE NEED FOOD AND WATER FOR SURVIVAL.TO COMPLETE THIS LONG JOURNEY WITHIN THE INNER SPACE,WE NEED GURU GIVEN FOOD OF GURU SHABAD. JIH MAARAG KE GANE JAAHE NA KOSAA HAR KA NAAM OOHAA SANG TOSSA (PAGE 264) BHAI GURDASSJI HAS ALSO WITTEN ON THE SUBJECT OF OVERCOMING THE INFLUENCE OF THE FIVE ELEMENTS. PAWAN PANI BAISANTRO DHARAT AAKASH ULANGH PAIYANA. (from another board by saint and soldier) i know ive repeated this alot of times but goto that site and listen to the akath katha and then ask questions because you will then understand all of this in much finer detail, why? Because bhai sewa singh has done the practical, walked this path and is now tell every1 else about it. Everything taught is in line with gurbani, sikhi is practical.

Firstly the pankti says GURMUKH not GURU and here is the definition of GURMUKH: "gurmukh andar sahaj hai man chadhya dasve akaas. tithe oongh na bhukh hai har amrit naam sukh vaas. nanak dukh sukh vyapat nahin jithe aatam raam pargaas." now apply that pankti to a gurmukh as guru nanak dev ji is describing the status of a gurmukh. he is attached to naad, his bachan is equivalent of veda and he is always smaeya (merged).

In gurbani it also refers to shabad guru: Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela Now this isnt a refer to the punj payara or guru granth sahib ji. The shabad here is a referal to the shabad 'vaheguru' - and in later stages is a refer to anhad shabad also here: Anhad bani gurshabad jaani - thru the gurus shabad we come to realise the anhad bani, this again is a referal to the shabad: vaheguru. So when we read bani we must do vichaar in fine detail as to what gurbani is referring to when talking about guru, satguru, shabad. As some places the meanings are different to others.

^^ Okay, vaheguru has created this game, the punj payara are given the guru role. Guru Granth Sahib Ji has two status, guru AND satguru BUT we have to goto the GURU ROOP PUNJ PAYARA first. Now this is in trigun, at chautha paad we have to goto the satguru there, how do we get there? Well SATGURU siri guru granth sahib ji tells us the way there! Okay, shabad here is not something written or spoken by a human etc etc...it is about the anhad laka (the place where everything is anhad) and to progress to further stages of naam we have to goto the guru (punj pyara) who can progress you further. You are asking all the right questions, some things i can't tell you because i havent done the practical myself - that is why i am suggesting you listen to the akath katha by bhai sewa singh ji here: http://www.simran.info/pmkc/

Well guru nanak dev ji was given the title of satguru AND guru, why? well they were able to take you all the way to god, as they did with guru angad dev ji, they made him from sikh, to sant, to sadhu, to bhagat, to brahagyani to gurmukh to guru then finally to satguru. As to which authority conferred such a title, well this is down to your own belief, you need a poora guru, and in this age we had guru nanak dev ji and now we have guru granth sahib ji. I dno, when you go and meet vaheguru you will have to ask for your self :D It is his creation he does as he pleases. This is partially true, to meet the satguru you must goto sehaj ghar, this is in chautha paad, dasam dwaar etc. But to get there we must following the teachings of our guru, Guru Granth Sahib ji. Well first we must find sangat of the saints, by doing sangat they are to unlock the anhad bani for you, which would mean you have become a saint: ANHAD BANI POONJI SANTAN DI HAATH RAKHI KOONJI we then goto the punj (guru) who as per gurbani give you these 3 gifts: SO GUR KARO JO SAACH DHIRIH AKATH KATHAI SHABAD MILAE, they then tell you that your guru from now on is GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI; gurbani says: POOCH CHALO GUR APNI, and GURMILAE GUR SHANKA DHAAR. So again guru and satguru title is given to guru granth sahib ji. If i am confusing you please goto http://www.simran.info/pmkc/ It because it is hard for me to explain trigun and chautha paad to you, and how this game works - if you listen to the akath katha on that site and come back to me then it will be alot easier to discuss these matters.

SANT Sant is assigned the location where Anhad Sabad of God goes on all the time. Sant relishes this Anahad Sabad/Bani/Dhun "Teh geet Naad akharay sanga. Oohan Bhagat karay Har ranga." p-739 The Sants have access to the Spiritual wealth of Anhad Bani and holds the key to this.They can help the seeker to this Anhad Sabad: "Anhad banee poonji. Santan hath rakhee koonji." p-893 Sants will brief the seekers on 'akath katha' the invisible path to reach the Supreme Being. This is their assignment. "Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo kath khanee." p-918 Thru this Anhad Bani which God Himself is uttering inside every body, will reveal this unknown path to the seeker when they hear it under guidance and help of a Sant:":Har ki katha Anahad Bani." p-439 Sants become servants of God and have easy access to His mansion. They know well their Divine Master and will guide the seeker to Him: "Pucho ja-ay pdhaooan chalay chakar ho-ay.Rajan jaa-nay apna dar ghar thaak na hoay." p-57 The Sants are directed by God to do simran on Gurmantra above everything else and help others to do the same to bring peace to them. "Saajan Sant karo eh kaam. Aan tiag japo Har Naam.Simar simar sukh paavo. Aap japo avray Naam japavoh." p-290 SADHU Sadhus are blessed with doing 'kirtan' , singing praises of Naam and the True One. The Sadhus will deliver this 'kirtan' to those who accept Guru'sword as Truth:"Ram Naam kirtan rattan vath Sadhu paas rakheejay.Jo bachan Gur sat sat kar ma-naiy tis aa-gaiy kaadh dhreejaiy." p1326 Since Sehaj Dhun goes on with Naam, Sadhus stay with Sehaj Dhun.If we keep the company of Sadhus and renouncing our ego beg their help, they will help us cross the Bhavjal/ Agan Sagar by bringing us to the treasure of Naam. "Aap shod benati karoh.Sadh sang agan sagar taro." 295 If we desire the Four Cardinal Gifts, we should go and serve Sadhus: "Chaar pdarath je ko mangay. Sadh jana kee sewa laagay." p266 To meet our True Lord, which is the only purpose of this human birth, one is advised that the only important thing in life is to do is Japna in the company of a Sadh: "Bhaee parapt manukh dehuria. Gobind milan kee ehi teri baria.Avar kaaj teray kitay na kaam. Mil sadh sangat bhaj kewal Naam."p-12 BHAGAT Bhagat stays in high comfortable spiritual palaces of Sookh Mehal "Sookh mehal jan kay ooch dwaray.Ta meh vassay bhagat piaaray." p-739 They are always imbued with peace of God's Naam: "Sukhmani sukh amrit Prabh NaamBhagat jana kay mun bisram." p262 Bhagat's food for mind is only Hari Naam and they are always heard singing praises of God. They live in the Nij Ghar serving God and win respect at the door of His Mansion:"Bhagtan ka bhojan Hari Naam Niranjan pehnan bhagat bdaeeNij Ghar vaasa sada Har sewan Har Dar sobha paaee." p-1233 In Japuji Sahib, Guru Ji has dedicated four pauries to Bhagats .They are always in peace and happiness and listening to them many a grief andsins are dispelled:"Nanak Bhagtan sada vigas. Sunniay dookh paap ka naas." p-2. God loves His Bhagats and they look beautiful singing his praises atHis door:"Bhagat teray mun bhanvday. Dar sohan keertan ganvday." 262 BRAHM GIANI Brahm Giani is a seeker whose mind is fully awakened into spiritual realm and lives in Sach Ghar having gained independence from doots of Maya. He is liberated from the cycle of reincarnations:. "Sache mehal niwaas nirantar avan jaan chukaaia." p--7 The food for his mind is Brahm Gian or the knowledge of Infinite Being. His mind is all the time absorbed in deep meditation of Supreme Lord."Brahngiani ka bhojan gian.Nanak Brahm Giani ka Brahm dhian." p-273 There is no difference in the nature of God and Brahm Giani. "Nanak Brahm Giani aap Parmesar." 273 They are most of the time in deep meditation and serve God and do simran in that state only. Their mind is always in self control and remain pure all the time: "Nadri Satgur seveeay nadri sewa hoay. Nadar eh mun vas aavay nadri mun nirmal ho-ay." p-558 With regards rabinder Singh bhamra" Here is an article stating each status of the MIND, the reason gurmukh is the highest is because a BRAHAMGYANI (MIND) does assan at one point only, which is in prakash mehal- a GURMUKH can goto any assan it pleases.....it can goto prakash mehal (brahamgyan assan) it can goto sookham mehal (bhagat assan) it can goto sacha shabad/sehaj dhun (sadhu assan) and it can goto anhad shabad (sant assan): GURMUKH AAVI JAAVI NAA SUNG GURMUKH KAADI RAAH CHILAE the guru is one higher, in the form of the punj the 5 gurmukhs know the jugti (method) of giving the sant the next state; So Gur Karo Jo Sach Dhrirh, Akath Kathai SHABAD MILAE. the satguru is the highest, once the guru points you to the direction where the satguru is the mind must go there and do an assan outside his door, you are then known as a bhagat. the satguru is the hardest to convince he may make you wait all your life or very short time, it is entirely up to the satguru!

I'll give the example of a farmer and his crops: A farmer first clears his field of dead weeds before planting his crop, he then takes care of his crop day and night and makes sure nothing affects its growth...slowly slowly the crop grows and finally it flourishes. The same way here, imagine your body is the field, your mind is the farmer and the simran is the seed you are planting, and the crop is the naam that will flourish at the end. But first we must kill all the weeds/dead roots in our body which are our thoughts such as KAAM KRODH LOBH MOH HANKAAR NINDYA CHUGLI EERKA DOOBA which can be done through simran. Once we become seperate from these things we then we do more simran and plant the seed and as the seed begins to grow we have signs that it is growing, slowly slowly you will start drinking amrit, you start going into sunn and so on.....and finally when the seed of naam flourishes you can call it anhad shabad, sehaj dhunn, anhad bani, sacha shabad, toor, naad (as naam flourishes more and more the names change!) Here is a post from another board by the user Adeep646: Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh When there was nothing before creation. There was Waheguru Ji Himeself. when he decided to play this Game; he spoke this sound that came from His Muk (mouth) is called Naam. In the Guru Granth Sahib Ji this is metioned as "Kavao" in the punjabi language from Japji Sahib as "Eko Kavao Tis Te Hoi Lak Dariao". and other names for this Shabad - Naam are "Seige Dun" from "Tera Mukh Suhava Seige Dun Bani" "Anhad Bani" "Othe Anhad Shabad Vaje Din Rati Gurmati Shabd Sunavinia ""Shacha Shabad" "Panch Shabad" from Japji "Panch Parvan Panch Pardan Panch Pave Darge Mann" this Naam is within us "Nau Nid Amrit Prab Ka Nam Dehi Me Is Ka Bisram" we have to do simran to find this and connect to it and attuin our Manns to Naam. this Naam is Hukam. "Eko Nam Hukam He" when we will be perfectly attuin to this day and night "Ande Naam Visarie Na Tis Eh Na Oh" our Mann will become clean "Nanak Nam Vase Mann Antar Gurmukh Mel Chukavnia"

Firstly I am not a maha big scholar, like besoft i am a khoji (researcher) as well. Secondly i am using 'baba' as a generic term as you were referring to some baba? .Just because I said these are pakhands...you're ego was hurt so much???!...SHAME ON YOU!....I never felt so mad... ^^ Thirdly these are not pakhands, as ive demonstrated before gurbani states otherwise. My ego was not hurt - you are trying to cause arguments please dont. This is what I would like to say to you: since you talk about knowing all that is in Sahib Shree Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj... then listen to what he says: Sant Ki Ninda Nanaka... Bahor Bahor Avtaar... ^^ I am assuming the 'baba' you referred to was of sant status, please reveal his or her name and the show us where guru ji has stated that is naam.Please dont argue.

Whatever reminds of god, and whatever creates a picture in your mind of god is Naam... ^^ This is not naam, your baba is most misleading. Gurbani says: SATGUR HAI BAUTHA SHABAD LIGHAVAN HAAR THITHA PAAVAN PAV KO JAAL NAAH AKAAR THITHA SAACHA SAACH NAI PHAV JAAL THARAN HAAR (gurbani is saying where we are going to go thru the shabad there is no AKAAR (physical forms) this is where naam resides! how can one claim naam to be a picture where gurbani says there is no physical forms ONLY SAACH!!

...While people are stuck in Pakaands(superstitions) like you can't say "waheguru wihtout saying satnaam" or you can't say "waheguru like this or that"...These are all Pakands...When One says Waheguru...Only the person Saying Waheguru knows how much love there is in that one word...and if you want to say "Satnaam Waheguru" then thats how you feel about god...this is how you see him...Don't get stuck in Pakands...Don't get into: You can't say this or that... ^^ Wow, your baba is giving you some really bad advice. Don't listen to any baba when you've got satguru siri guru granth sahib ji. Guru bani says; RAM RAM SAAB KO KAHI RAM KAHAN MEHI PEADH (the whole world is saying gods name but they dont know the technique of saying it) Lets ask the guru who he adores: JO SAAS GIRAAS DYHI MERA HAR HAR SO GURSIKH GURU MAAN PHAVI and what does a gurmukh do: GURMUKH ROM ROM: romae rom rom romae mai guramukh raam dhhiaaeae raam || The one sentiment of your statement is correct: Jin Prem Kio Tin He Prabh Payo (if u have love then u can meet god) BUT when you are doing meditation and your mind is having KAAM KRODH LOBH MOH HANAKAAR NINDYA CHUGLIA EERKA thoughts then where is your love for god? Then the person having these thoughts is doing pakand. Bhagat Ravidas Ji was a Bhagat...But can you imagine the love that he had when he said "Satnaam Shri Waheguru"...Can you ever stand in that place?...You can try but you can't feel that pain and that love for god he had... ^^ Our satguru is so dyaal (compassionate) that he is opened up all doors for us, he has told us how to get where bhagat ravi daas ji was as per gurbani!: Bhagat stays in high comfortable spiritual palaces of Sookh Mehal "Sookh mehal jan kay ooch dwaray.Ta meh vassay bhagat piaaray." p-739 They are always imbued with peace of God's Naam: "Sukhmani sukh amrit Prabh NaamBhagat jana kay mun bisram." p262 Bhagat's food for mind is only Hari Naam and they are always heard singing praises of God. They live in the Nij Ghar serving God and win respect at the door of His Mansion:"Bhagtan ka bhojan Hari Naam Niranjan pehnan bhagat bdaeeNij Ghar vaasa sada Har sewan Har Dar sobha paaee." p-1233 In Japuji Sahib, Guru Ji has dedicated four pauries to Bhagats .They are always in peace and happiness and listening to them many a grief andsins are dispelled:"Nanak Bhagtan sada vigas. Sunniay dookh paap ka naas." p-2. God loves His Bhagats and they look beautiful singing his praises atHis door:"Bhagat teray mun bhanvday. Dar sohan keertan ganvday." 262 (by rabinder singh bharma) Our guru has not closed any doors, he opened them all!

so guru krau ij swcu idRVwvY ] (686-6, DnwsrI, mÚ 1) So make Him your Guru, who implants the Truth within you, AkQu kQwvY sbid imlwvY ] (686-7, DnwsrI, mÚ 1) who leads you to speak the Unspoken Speech, and who merges you in the Word of the Shabad. ^^ Explaination of this tukh, The english translation is SLIGHTLY misleading. Firstly the title of GURU is given to the punj pyara. Once you have reached sant paad you present your self before the guru (which the title is given to punj pyara) and they will give you DARSHAN of SAACH/VAHEGURU/TRUTH - they will tell u the AKATH KATHA from VEJOG TO SANJOG (from parting of saach to meeting of saach) AND they will attached you to the shabad. The shabad is NOT 'word of the shabad' gurbani here is talking about avasta after the anhad bani, i cant fully remember which one the punj are suppose to attach you to, i think its toor or naad, although i am not 100%.

Partially true. My reasoning is below. Guru jee can be all this ie a breham giaanee, a sant etc but a breham gianee or a sant cannot be a Guru jee. (sukhamani sahib has more on breham giaanee) ^^ This is partially true as well! The rules are that the punj pyara are given title of GURU, for them to be accepted as guru they must all be gurmukhs (one status above the brahamgyani) Because when they are the punj they have to give you 3 gifts at the amrit sanchar: So Gur Karo Jo Saach Dhrirh, Akath Kathai, shabad milae. In order for them to give you these gifts they must first be merged with saach them selves! The seeker must be at sant status.