munjoth

Veer ji, the problem here is that the meanings are wrong. This is what happens when one whose mind is not awoken does meanings of gurbani. Gurbani is telling us here what hukum ego has. As it is one of the demons from the punj, who are still under hukum of vaheguru. Gurbani says that hukum is to put the Mind into kirat karam. This sends the mind into many joons We then do benti gurbani says: kirt karam ki vichaarai kar kirpa mehalau raam. You will keep finding bani that will raise doubts..why? Well it is because a) our minds are asleep b) we rely on translations from people whose minds are also asleep...my query to you how can a sleeping mind translate bani that came from dhaargah. The vichaar goes much deeper of how ego puts the mind into many life forms. The game vaheguru has created: Karti Ni ik khel Richaya. Gurbani then says all maya is under kaals control: Khand Patal Deepka Saab Loha Kaala Vaas Prabh ApaaKeea

if we read this tukh: it is saying 'haumai' caused the punishment of being placed in the garab (womb) in bani it again states this: Baadah Baadah Ankankaria Nanak Garab Gaala *One with a big ego, you shall die again and again in the womb of the mother* Now how to overcome this ego, you've so kindly stated here: In the first instance we apply this to Simran, Shabad Guru - which is Japna Saas Saas, Saas Giraas and Rom Rom Simran of vaheguru. Now once we japp this shabad the shabad will become pargat and this is the second instance where shabad guru is anhad shabad/sehaj dhun. Now how to do this practically that can be told by who has done practical themselves. Veer ji are my pms being sent to you, i replied twice but to no avail.

besoft ego is not a gift from god, i requested in an early post why u presumed this. We discussed ego comes under one of the 5 demons that is in the trigun, gurbani says that one will not achieve sehaj in the trigun. Gurbani says the whole world wants sehaj but will never achieve it in trigun. Its all about chautha paad my friend. We both must get there there is no dukh or sukh there just saach. Guru says u wanna go there? First learn to die then come to me! ( I haven't posted the gurbani to each point made but as your a khoji you will know everything said is in line with bani!)

As ive stated before, all knowledge posted here is not by me, it is from bhai sewa singh and bhai ajit singh. If one wants further information then goto www.simran.info and listen to the akath katha; any doubts please post. (also sorry if i keep posting the link again and again, not advertising just trying to make it clear a) I am not to be credited b) all vichaar is openly available on the internet)

a quick request, does every1 understand the bani ive posted, i was thinking of re-writing the article so the tuks are explained.

he is saying many other bhagats had approached guru arjan dev ji to have there bani placed in guru granth sahib ji. Take note, only bani that is dhaarj (present) in guru granth sahib ji is of those who had met god.

What is simran as per gurbani, Gurbani says: Simar Simar Simar Gur Apna Soeya Munn Jigai Our guru is SHABAD GURU, the shabad guru gurbani talks about is 'vaheguru' The different types of simran are SAAS SAAS SIMRAN, SAAS GIRAAS SIMRAN, ROM ROM SIMRAN each done with a jugti as per gurbani. Where does simran take u? Well first it awakens the mind and where does it awaken the mind: PINNI RAHNARAI CHAAMKAAN THARA, JAAGAI SANT JAANA MERA RAAM PYARA now search gurbani to see where sant (mind) is avasta

A very nice post indeed. Just to touch upon one or two points you made: This is so true, we first have to goto that place where we are going to goto after death. It is a misconception that if one, for example, has led a good life they are going to heaven/saach khand etc etc. Gurbani states otherwise, gurbani says the ones who haven't reached naam, anhad shabad, sehaj dhunn, sacha shabad, naad, toor etc (all names gurbani uses to refer to naam) one will have coming and going aka 'reincarnation': JINNI GURMUKH NAAM NAAH BUJOYAH MAAR JAAMAI AAVO JAI Some believe that it takes many lifetimes to reach god but again gurbani clears this doubt: PAE PRAAPT MANUKH DI HOORAI GOBIND MILN KEE EHHO TERI BAARIA

Gurbani talks about a well that is inside us, inside this well there is amrit, we refer to it as amrit russ, amrit jaal. If this english translation is correct gurbani is saying: rope = metaphor for shabad water = amrit inside us One can only drink amrit russ through the shabad, but as your connection to the shabad is 'broken' it is foolish to try and draw water (amrit) from this well.

thank you for your kind comments "V" veer ji. If you take a look at all my posts you will see how much gian (knowledge) is present in them for the seeker. But please note that it is not me who deserves credit for it. Firstly Satguru Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji deserves full credit, Why? Well all of gurbani tells us from VIJOG (from parting) to SANJOG (meeting) ...Guru Granth Sahib Ji has left no doubts all answer are there. All signs of who one is, where each avastaa is, how to get there, what the status of the mind is...step by step clear cut. Secondly I wouldn't have obtained this knowledge of theory and practical if it hadn't been for bhai sewa singh and bhai ajit singh, as they did the practical and are doing the practical and telling others. Before having this sangat I was reading gurbani like a parrot, just reading bani without actually thinking what is written. Without actually realising what bani is actually saying.....what the status of the mind is, how it was made, how did it get to the status it is at, how do we realise our true selfs and the practical...how do we awaken this sleeping mind and return to our turn homes! Finally, when one begins to gain these gifts that the satguru blesses us with then that person wants others to achieve the same things, because ultimately we are brothers and sisters.

Haha besoft ji, although i pmed u saying i wont reply to your threads they are always so good! I will reply to your original query 'how to overcome ego' This is different from the actual thread. Ego is one of the 5 demons from kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, hankaar. Ego is the 'I' the 'Me' and this is a big down fall, one who is full of ego can not do bhagati. The short term: one has to do sewa of the saadh sangat, this will bring down ones ego and the person will become nirmal but beware even when doin sewa one must not go into ego! With sewa one must do simran, this is the other way to lower ones ego. Now when one reaches the panch (5) shabads he will beat kaal (devil) and the 5 dhoots (demons) gurbani says: VAAJAI PANCH SHABAD THITTAH GHARS BHAAGA, GHARS BHAAGA SHABAD VAJA KHAALA JIT GHAR DHAARIA, PANCH DHOOT DODDA VAAS KEETA KAAL KUNT KUMARIA bani is from anand sahib.

gurbani about the keys: Satguru: Khat nem kar kothree bandhee bastu anoop beech paayee. Kunjee kulph praan kar rakhe karte baar na laayee: SGGS 339 Guru: Jis kaa grih tin deeyaa taalaa kunjee Gur sayupaayee. Anik upaav kare nahee paavai bin satgur sarnaayee: SGGS 205 Servant: Sifat jinaa kayu bakhseeyai seyee potedaar. Kunjee jin kayu diteeyaa tinaa mile bhandaar: (SGGS 1239)

no, i haven't said you need a sant. I merely stated that one who is at sant (mind) has these duties. It was so that others who are stuck going to deras, babas dont get fooled. Secondly please dont ever refer to gurbani as 'one liner' this is quite disrespectful. Hunji, as stated before my own father and grandad, by the kirpa of the guru and saadh sangat, have reached the anhad bani. I will have to find the gurbani for this, I dont recall it from the top of my head. After that i shall not be posting on such matters as it is causing arguments and sikhs dont bens (argue).

Firstly understand these are not phyiscal keys, they are metaphors. Now the problem you appear to have is with this tuk: "Anhad banee poonji. Santan hath rakhee koonji." p-893 http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...0&Param=893 And if doubt is still in your mind then ill give you practical examples of those from my family who do saadh sangat, how they have got this anhadbani. No doubts or tricks as they say 'proof is in the pudding'

You are bensing (arguing), there is no need to argue - if you do not wish to accept what gurbani is saying then don't. Gurbani states one key is given to sant ...one given to guru and final key satguru has. If you don't like the veechar dont read it. again mocking. I don't have a 'sant' in the singular sense but have in the plural sense. 'saadh sangat'. What has sangat taught me? "Anhad Bani Gurshabad Jaani HarNaam Har Raas Pogo"

The term 'middle men' here is used in a mocking context. Gurbani calls those that have awn jaana (coming and going) from his desh (world) are his harjaan, pyaari, goli, chaakar. They are his servants. Now the question is raised why the need for guidence from his servants. We say to ourselves we've got gurbani, no need for anything else. We say that we accept the gurus hukum etc. But What is the hukum? Lets discuss. Gurbani says Trigun Saaba Dhaat Hai Par Par Kari Veechar, Mukt Kaaba Naa Hovei Naa Paen Maukh Dwaar - In this trigun, there is only 'dhaat' you can read all the bani you want and do as many veechar as you want BUT you will never find MUKTI nor the MUTK DWAAR. Then we ask ourselves, well what shall we do gurbani says then if u want to understand me come to the nijghar: Eh Hi Bani Mahapurkhan Ki Nijghar Vaasa Hoe Now we think BUT we don't goto the nijghar then this is where the need for one who has coming and going from the nijghar. First Guru nanak dev ji guided those there, then guru angad dev ji and third guru was so dyaal he gave hukum to the sant who is at nijghar to guide those there: "Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo kath khanee." p-918 Now the question is raised how do they do this. The servant of god, the sant will tell you what gurbani says, they will do aarth (meanings) of gurbani that are from the 4th state, not from the trigun (rajo, sato, tamo). They will tell you how to play this game and then we are to do the practical, how to overcome the trigun etc. It is easy to paste lines of gurbani but actually understanding it thats a whole different ball game. Think of it like this the translations we read on line are done by a person right? But we accept them. We never ask the person doing the translations where is that mind is it in the trigun or chautha paad.

edited.

challo penji, we are merely arguing now - and us moorkahs if we keep arguing won't let us progress to naam.. so what we'll do is do our abhyaas...and in about say 6th months we'll see how much we have progressed...if you get the sacha shabad before me then you be a penji and tell me how you got there...if i get there then ill tell you how i got there because it is a prem marg..and if we both get there..well then ill cu in the nijghar :D AKAATHAR HOVO MILO MERA BHAI, DOOBA DHOOR, KARO LIV LAE

I dont understand...guru ji's hukum is guru jis bachan..please find some gurbani to back this up because we read: DHUN MUN DHAN SAAB SAUP GUR KO HUKUM MANIYA PAEYA (when we give the guru these 3 things then we obey his hukum)...and then i further explained how this is done. books and bhagati ...books wont tell you how to rise above trigun only poora guru can and our poora guru is shabad guru.

This is quite the opposite, a sant is not one in a million - the first nishaan (sign) that we have crossed the bhav sagar is we get the anhad shabad/anhad bani....and gurbani says if you have this call your self a sant (status of a mind). The title sant is so glamourised we havent even asked gurbani who sant is, believe me when i say sant is not the highest status. Gurbani also says if u meet such a person do this POOCHO SANTO MERA THAKUR KAASA. You mis interpreted what i said. Secondly ik onakar..gurbani says understand how we came from IK to ONKAR (trigun)...notice the top of the onkar is left open...gurbani is saying although in the trigun there is still a path back. what is sat naam? There was sat in the beginning from his mukh came this naam..SATNAAM (tera mukh sohava sehaj dhun bani) Beautiful bani here: First gurbani shows us true humility and then does this benti: saran tayree rakh layho mayree sarab mai niranjanaa. But, what 'saran' is gurbani talking about...where do the gurus saran become paragat ...this saran is the anhad shabad that take us across the bhav sagar. By reading this bani one does not become it, firstly the avasta bani is talking about is where one is on tamogun. The mind is doing benti for help: mwieAw moih mgnu kiF lyhu murwrI rwm ] maa-i-aa mohi magan kadh layho muraaree raam. I am intoxicated with the love of Maya - save me, Lord! Then guru is dyaloo (compassionate) and tells us how we can cross over maya (trigun: RAJGUN SATGUN TAMGUN EHI KAHYA TERI SAAB MAYA): Aap shod benati karoh.Sadh sang agan sagar taro

Lets not discuss satgurus hukum lets first discuss gurus hukum, what is gurus hukum? guru says DHAN MUN DHUN SAAB SAUNP GUR KO HUKUM MANYA PAAEYA saying to the give me MIND your BODY and the DHUN (wealth) But what wealth does our guru speak of? Guru is talking about the breathe. the wealth that we are sent here with. Guru says give me your MIND, BODY and BREATHE. So you say okay Guru Ji i give you my MIND, BODY and WEALTH OF THE BREATHE. Now guru says to you right today i want you to do assan in the nijghar and spend your breathes in the nirgun (this means have no furnai [thoughts] at all) ...we say 'err but guru ji we dont goto the nijghar and our thoughts dont even stop for a second' Slight problem in accepting hukum? Guru says okay today u go into trigun and i want you to only do ur livelihood, and come back home (nijghar)..okay so we goto the trigun what happens..we go from livelihood...to materialistic thirsts desires worries anxieties and we dont ever return to the nijghar we get stuck here..again we didnt obey hukum? Yet we say we have given you our mind, body and wealth of the breath..yet at the same time we can't control our minds nor can we control how our breathes are spent. This is why guru says 'pehala maran kabool kar jeevan kee shaad aas' guru is saying first learn to die, this means rise above the trigun so all your thoughts die. then the pankti finishes with 'thaa au humari paas' when u achieve this THEN COME TO ME.

This is most misleading, bani explains other wise: Here is bani about sacha shabad, or sehaj dhun --- TERA MUKH SAUHAVA SEHAJ DHUN BANI, when i say voice im not talking about a voice that speaks punjabi or english or something The laka is ANHAD the language there is ANHAD, ANHAD BANI. the sacha shabad is wot came from vahegurus MUKH - and what happened? NAAM KI THAARI KHAND BRAHAMAND.

I agree with you, to actually find saadh sangat, i know why you are reclutent about the middle man because there are so many kaal di sant (saints of the devil) gurbani warns us about these: SANT ANARI MAYA NAAL LOOJA (they are sants that are only after money) and then bani says KATHNI NAAH SOOJA (they will never realise this akath katha). The second part, i guess this is up to you. Guru Granth Sahib Ji has already stated the need to meet those that have met god. And im not talking about some dera baba either. As for understand guru granth sahib jis bani, Gurbani even tells us if u want understand bani do this: Eh Hi Bani Mahapurkhan Ki Nijghar Vaasa Hoe You can interpret this in two ways. Goto Nijghar your self and when you go there you will understand gurbani. Second, an example. When we goto a foreign country we usually require a translator to translate what is being said. Now we want to understand gurbani, but bani is saying if u want to understand me then u gotta come nijghar. Now we havent gone to nijghar so what do we do? We find a translator, one who has vaasa in the nijghar. aah such is the time of kalyug there are so many sants and babas its too difficult to find the true gems. A request to you though tell me this, we read jap ji saab every day right? And you accept bani as akath katha right? In jap ji sahib it tells you the following: Our mool (starting point) What naam is Where is saachkhand How astool (physical) maya was made How sookham (unseen) maya was made How this earth was made How our physical body was made I read the same jap ji saab for many years and couldnt answer these questions, i then had sangat and i was so surprised when i realised the bani had been reading for many years explained this. My benti to you is goto www.simran.info/pmkc listen to abit of the akath katha and tell me your views after.

From your link, firstly bani talks about teh naam, which in bani is also called 'sachaa shabad' but where is this sachaa shabad? THen there is an instruction 'MAAL GEHI MUNN NIRMAL HOEA AMRIT SAAR THEERHA NAI, SAAJAN MILAE SAAJNA SACHA SHABAD SMAE' bani here is talking about internal, this amrit saar theerha is inside us, this saacha shabad is inside us. Here bani is talking about the mind: mn myry Anidnu jwgu hir cyiq ] man maerae anadhin jaag har chaeth || O my mind, remain awake and aware night and day, and think of the Lord. not being physically awake, that would not make sense and is not in gurmat. Where is this mind asleep and how do we wake it up: Tin Gunni Sansaar Param Soota Sutai Raanvihani Gur Kirpa Teh Seh Jun Jaagi || through the gurus kirpa the mind is awakened, then we ask guru what is this kirpa: Simar Simar Simar Gur Apna Soeya Munn Jigaye Through Simran can this sleeping mind be awoken. again here: We must do simran and get to this sacha shabad, you posted this bani to me but my question to you is have you woken up this sleeping mind? Do you hear this sacha shabad that bani talks about. finally in that shabad bani explains going from sacha shabad to his daar (court/place). If we havent even got to the sacha shabad how can we say we obey the satgurus hukum? We can't even hear his voice.

penji i do not wish to cause arguements, but what gurbani says is attal, the difference between our two posts is that it is not me who is saying this, it is the guru, read everything ive posted and nowhere i have said 'i' think this...if we use our own thinking we will never cross this bhav sagar/agaan sagar/bik sagar. Reading the rest of your post and the gurbani you have posted, gurbani will demonstrate otherwise. Sat sangat and saadh sangat, When we goto the gurdwara our main aim is to find our true home, find our route to the nijghar from there goto the sehaj ghar where vaheguru resides. When we goto the gurdwara the person on stage doing the katha is suppose to give us a teaching that would tell us how to travel across the bhav sagar. Gurbani says: GURDWARA LAH PAAVNI IK NAH DAASMA DWAAR DIKHYA Now say we goto the gurdwara and the katha vichiks mind is in the trigun (rajo, sato, tamo) - he hasnt travelled across the bhav sagar himself, he hasnt made it to the nijghar, all he is doing sitting on stage trying to earn a living. gurbani says we goto the sangat to wash our sins but instead of washing them we have infact gained sins why? Well when this giani/kathavachik will speak he will put chikaar on you (dirty) ..again why you ask and how? His vichaars will be in trigun, he will translate bani but all his meanings will be from trigun. In trigun there is only paap. Now when we goto sangat and a sant, sadhu, bhagat or gurmukh (all signs of where they are listed in previous posts) will be doing katha, wot will happen? They will take there surat to sookhmehal if bhagat, or sacha shabad if sadhu, or sant is anhad shabads and take your surat as well....if its a bhagat they will japaa naam and cut the faahi that the jamdhoots have put around our necks. In japji sahib we read: NANAK BHAGAT SAADH VIGAAS SUNAI DOOKH PAAP KAA NAAS. again sadhu sangat: Aap shod benati karoh.Sadh sang agan sagar taro. So mehima of saadh sangat is very high. But to say that say 'me and you' did sangat and call that saadh sangat? No this is incorrect, to call it saadh sangat one would have to have vaasa chautha paad (4th state). the katha that a sant will perform is the following: "Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo akath khanee." It will be akath katha You are right in some sense that one will have to put his own efforts in, one will have to perform naam abhyaas - we learn how to play this game and then we must practice day and night to win it and this is done through simran! On the other hand saadh sangat is so high in kaalyug if a jeev just comes, sits does NOTHING and just sits there quietly one will also be taken across, how beautiful is the sangat! Now this part of your post You speak of following the instructions of the satguru, but have you ever heard the satgurus voice?...Have you asked guru what the satgurus voice is? Gurbani says the anhad bani is the satgurus voice, when we goto sleep we all go to his darbaar, and the satguru tells us how to play this game, what our roles are going to be in the game next day BUT because are minds are asleep we have no idea how we goto sleep, how we cross this bhav sagar and enter his domain...in the morning we wake up and realise nothing.