MrDoaba

Interestingly enough but not surprisingly, at the top it says:

ਹੁਕਮਨਾਮਾ ਮਾਤਾ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇਵੀ ਜੀ - Hukamnama Mata Sahib Devi Ji

Odd huh, where did the "Kaur" suffix come from...

5 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I don't think what you've highlighted above impacted on the situation like you seem to be suggesting.  

It's just my opinion bro. Maybe it cannot be applied broadly but I genuinely believe in some parts of the UK it would have been different. I will accept though, this is largely, if not almost completely down to the work done by SAS and SYUK. It has had an knock on effect on the psyche of many. Dhaliwals full acceptance in the community would have been met with resistance imo.

But chalo agree to disagree.

You brought up this same exact point in the thread you made a couple of weeks ago titled "What puts people off becoming Sikhs".

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

So let's try and figure out what happened here. 

This piece of dog excrement comes from a 'respected' family, his grand-dad apparently being a pardaan. Given that he married an amritdhari at some stage, I would assume that a lot of his family itself are amritdhari. Was he another one of those spoiled jut boys you see, showing off their family wealth in fancy cars, proud of their numerous properties?

Our local source here says his father was a womaniser too. Was he another one of those kids raised up like (in the words of Rupan Bal) Jesus himself was born into the family in spite of whatever messed up, egocentric, cruel acts he displayed?

I can't really imagine that his family didn't have some idea of how rotten he was.

As for the local Huddersfield munday. We have statements saying he was often seen around town in fancy cars with young girls in the back. And most of his mates were paks, including older minicab drivers - what bigger red flag could you get? 

Did he intimidate the local apnay munday? Anyone who stood up to him? He had at least a twenty strong pak crew following him about, did he use them as protection and muscle? I know often, when you meet sick and twisted individuals or groups you can sense it, and the even the more streetwise amongst us, will make a mental note to keep away from these people. 

I got to say. Maybe the grand-dad needed to take his head out of his ar5e and forget all the gurdwara politics and power plays and have a closer look under his own familial bed?

I'm a realist about human behaviour, and I know not all of us are saints, if you grow up in certain places you are pretty much forced to meet all sorts of people, but this guy has reached depths of depravity that are shocking even for someone seasoned like me. 

What the hell went on in Huddersfield? Was this like an open secret of a rotten boy from a family of 'respect' and status that people turned a blind eye too?

And you know what, I'll never hear the name Dhaliwal again without it bringing me back to this family in my mind. 

Okay I get the angle you're coming from. I think there's a misunderstanding. I'll try my best to explain what I meant.

So from what I know, it was an open secret he was a drug dealer and into dodgy sh!te but no one suspected him of being this kind of dirty bast*rd. The point you're making is that the community has the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality and I don't disagree. But then one also has to look at that particular community and their behaviour, their passiveness, and the reasons why - another thing I know about the Hudderfield Sikh community is religiosity is low, there aren't many devout Sikhs especially amongst naujawaans. With this taken into account I would presume that they wouldn't feel any greater obligation (to out or confront) than your average private citizen minding their own business would - i.e. where there is a strong Dharmic community, strong in Sikh ethics and values...they wouldn't put up with this bulltutti, sweeping under the carpet, allowing one to abuse the Sikh image especially if one is under investigation for such a heinous crime. They would have a more innate sense of responsiblity (I should hope so anyway).

By extension he did in fact have ties to the community, his grandad. But it was only after the investigation when he cultivated (the illusion) of being a fully fledged member of the qaum and a Singh...this is where community and the Gurdwara f'ed up big time. They played along, and why I do not know. It could well be what you mentioned..respect, status, Gurdwara politics etc etc.

Regardless of the details, we have still taken responsibilty for this <banned word filter activated>, and in my earlier post I was trying to highlight the (general) contrast between us and the Pakistanis...how there isn't a peep even IF the perp is a completely integrated member of their quam.

I'm not sticking up for the Hudds Samaaj, not by a long shot.

5 hours ago, Premi5 said:

This is quite interesting what you posted, not heard if it that way. 

But not clear to me how Anand Sahib Ji follows on from Chaupai Sahib Ji. 

And can you share your knowledge in Rehraas Sahib Ji please? 

From what I recall about Anand Sahib...so when we do the benti (Chaupai Sahib), one realises the Divine Love within but also the prem Satguru has. The individual is assured that by coming under Satguru's Sharan and following the path of Gursikhi, all their affairs will be resolved. Through doing the Panj Baniyaan our Prem, Sharda, and Bhaavna is increased...and we should realise how forunate we are that we have actually have Gurbani and that Maharaaj has already done Kirpa. In this alone, there is a sense of Anand, but also in the wider context (given what's contained in the previous 4 Bani's and now in Anand Sahib) we again realise that Satguru can lead us to infinite bliss...Anand.

Hope that makes sense.

My knowledge on Rehraas Sahib is textbook, I will get back to you ji.

3 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Are there more people like this hidden amongst us? 

There must be. The question is, who is "us"? If there are others like Dhaliwal, they will most like be very distant from the Punjabi/Sikh community...individuals who have alienated themselves and generally are not part of the Samaaj. With Pakistanis you're more likely to find they are still by and large considered part of their community, still integrated...to some extent anyway. This boils down to the stark contrast in views, morals, ethics etc between ours qaums.

Of course it would be very naive of me to say that everyone of this disgusting inclination who is from a Punjabi/Sikh background has nothing to do with the qaum. Sure there are some hidden, however, we are pretty good at naming and shaming (even over trivial bakwaas) so I would have to say they're more likely to be outed.

We should make more efforts in weeding out this kinda of sh!t instead of directing all efforts in exposing which Prachaark kissed who.

9 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Can anyone summarise more about why we should do the other Bani, and what we would lack in our lives if we missed any of the individual Bani in our routine?

I'm not sure if I can answer your question exactly but I remember hearing the purpose and structure of Nitnem in Katha:

Japji Sahib - explains who/what Akaal Purkh is, the nature

Jaap Sahib - Ustat of Akaal Purkh

Tva Prasad Saviye - upon hearing the Ustat of Akaal Purkh, the greatness, one is overcome with Bairaag

Chaupai Sahib - upon feeling/realising this Bairaag (and our position in this Sansaar), a Benti is needed

Anand Sahib - This one is self-explanatory when the above is taken into account

From this we can see how one Bani leads on to the next, and how it creates the frame of mind a Gursikh should have.

Sorry I couldn't provide more detail.

Gurbar Akaal!

24 minutes ago, Singh559 said:

A person who has taken Khande Di Pahul under Guru Gobind Singh was simply required to pledge his allegiance to the Khalsa Army to fight against Adharm. They simply gave their pind name and identifying things just so they wouldn't dessert. 

I have heard in Katha that in many cases in order to be eligible for Amrit there was some rather stringent testing.

24 minutes ago, Singh559 said:

The expectations were always realistic and reasonable, not everyone had to be a Gyani dhiaani banda to lead the Khalsa nor is that indicative of character and their sacrifice for the Kaum.

Fair enough.

14 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

am saying if you've gone through lowering of your ego through Bani, Sewa  and simran for some years after submitting yourself to Guru ji's rehit before even getting basic recognition as a starting sikh, then why would you allow someone who never fully submitted their minds let alone bodies to Guru ji's sikhi to have a platform to speak on others behalf ? surely it would be better to make sure they were as loyal to sikhi  as knowledgable by testing them in a similar way .. 

You're not being realistic lol. Not every single Amritdhari has been through everything you've mentioned yet they are given full platform rights. Amritdharis are not tested in the way you're suggesting lol, or well at least not anymore.

The Nihang model is not applicable in the west as even they themselves (real Nihangs) will say one cannot technically be a Nihang in the west under currrent cirumstances. Being a Nihang is a full time commitment to a specific lifestyle.

2 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

if we are using the model of nihang initiation then if they had gone through the years of sewa , santhiya etc then maybe  else I would do the same as for the mona/sehjdhari  types . I think all parts of our groups need to upp their game , it's too easy for non sikhs to pretend to be us .

I don't really understand your post. Are you now saying only those who have gone through the Nihang style have proved their loyalities and knowledge or are you suggesting it?

6 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

mona sikhs have to prove their loyalties and konwledge of sikhi

How?

6 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

(in this I am also including paghwale keshadhari who have not become khalsa

So are you saying those who have taken Amrit have automatically proved their loyalties and knowledge of Sikhi?

10 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Why do they call Smethwick 'the black country'?

I believe the West Midlands is called The Black Country because of its links with coal mining...iirc.

9 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I heard Gyaani Maskeen ji say once that Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj collapsed all 4 varnas into one , his Khalsa.

Because when a Sikh is doing paath , he's like a brahmin . When hes using his kirpan to defend innocents he's like Kshatriya , when he sits in his shop to earn , he's like Vaish, and when he does sewa in jodaghar and washing and dusting in gurdwara he's like Shudra.

Excellent post. Just to add to the above Guru Sahib also rolled the four stages of human life as per the Vedic Ashram System into one.

The four stages being:

Brahmachara (student, bachelor, celibate), Grist (householder), Vanprasth (forest dweller, transitional stage, adviser, retirement), Sanyas (renunciate).

I read this quite a while back and cannot find the exact quote right now so I would be grateful if anybody could provide it.

Gurbar Akaal!

Varna and Jaat (otherwise spelled as Jati) are two different things. Yes they overlap but are not explicitly the same thing.

I find it hilarious but also disheartening when Sikhs refuse to say "Diwali". Such a sad state of affairs and such a poisonous (and retarded) mindset.

Hindus also celebrate Bandi Chhor...Sita Ji was released from captivity too. Nice parallel there for people to think about.

Put that in your Diva and light it.

Dhan Guru Nanak Tu Hi Nirankaar! Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Hargobind Ji Maharaaj!

Dhan Sri Ram Chandar Ji Maharaaj!

Dhan Mata Sita Ji!

Dhan Hanuman Ji!

Khushian Da Jaikaara Gajaave!!! Fateh Paave!!! Nihaal Ho Jaave!!! Sat Sri Akaaaaaaluhh!!!

Gurbar Akaal hii Akaaaaaaaaluhh!!!

Is it just me or is this lowkey really racialist?

41 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Langar is a dharmic concept and started with Hinduism. 

Really? Is this sarcasm and has it gone over my head?  Do you have any examples? As someone who considers himself well outside the realm of Hinduphobia even I find this a little hard to believe.

On the few occasions I have actually been to a Mandir, I saw that Langar or Prasad as they call it is only prepared if 1) someone has a family event (Puja etc) 2) it is festival.

Mandirs are usually not open all day either. Individuals also stick to one Mandir due to various factors - deity/samparda, linguistics, caste (all of which is actually not that different from Gurdwaras lol) but my point is they seem to be more exclusive; while there's nothing stopping people from going to any Mandir, they typically don't. The different castes (tradtionally) wouldn't eat from a caste lower than them either...not sure about now, however, many Brahmins do keep next level sucham to this day - like Taksalis.

I personally do not think they ever had anything like Langar given what I know and my own experiences. I could be wrong.

14 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

reduce speed of greying too

You can also use oil infused with ratanjot for this, however, it works best if started before the greying has began.

22 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

I don't know if it ever went away in my family because they stuck to sikh traditions . Because everything is so bling bling now the chunni given now by most saure would probably be super heavily embroidered (status) so stitching two heavy heavy chunnis would make zero sense (think clash of material of top chunni with jewells gota etc etc larlam parlam on saure chunni) . Traditionally the chunni put by saure is simple flattish embroidery possibly gold thread , a little edging , even just a pretty simple phulkari (mine was light pink with gold thread).

Now the whole dress up like a bollywood star thing is so prevalent people don't even think of the meaning of anything , let alone the deep sentiments behind them.

I see. I will ask some ladies about this. My sisters and most of my cosuin sisters had very light chunnis like the ones you describe but I still do not recall them wearing it on the actual wedding day; could this perhaps be a regional tradition? 

I also get the sense that a lot of Gursikhs are moving away from many of these old tradtions whether Punjabi or Sikh ones even if they are do not contradict Sikhi because of the usual rhetoric i.e. ritualism, manmat, false information, or simply deemed unnecessary.

3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

when the chunni rasam is done that chunni given by Saure is used under the nanake one as traditionally the nanake of the girl buy the ananda da suit.

I was not aware of this...I haven't seen any girls wear the one from the Chunni rasam at the actual vivaah. Is this whats making a comeback then?

3 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

my Masi's girl was pretty simple tastes like myself but when her folks saw that suit she picked the night before they took her out to get heaviest lengha possible , we are talking five foot 4  barely 100 pounds girls carrying 30 pounds of material . Her bros literally had to help her move around to do lavan and her masian bhabi help her stand and sit .... madness

It's the lining in those lenghe lol.

2 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

plus it signifies she's under the protection of both families and their honour...which is one of those sikh traditions which match to sikhiya of Guru ji

This is actually quite touching ngl. You said one from saure and one from naanke though...did you mean from daadke and naake? If not please explain.

Thanks.