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MrDoaba

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MrDoaba last won the day on November 5

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About MrDoaba

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    Ham Rultay Firtay Koee Baath Na Poochtaa

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    ਦੁਆਬ ਦੁਆਬੀ ਅਤੇ ਦੁਆਬੀਅਤ।
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    ਆਰ.ਐਸ.ਐਸ।
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  1. ਜੇ.ਕੇ.ਵੀ ਨੇ ਤਾ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾ ਨੁਕਸ ਕੱਢਣੇ ਜਿਥੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਇਤਿਹਾਸ ਤੋਂ ਸਿੱਖਿਆ ਨੀ ਲਹਿਣੀ ਪਰ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਬਾਰੇ ਉਲਟ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਜਰੂਰ ਰੱਬ ਤੋਂ ਭੀ ਡਰ ਲਿਆ ਕਰ....
  2. MrDoaba

    Sikh cults?

    Nanaksar is not a cult, it is a legitimate samparda. However there are many offshoots which use the Nanaksar name and are indeed cultish. Many great Mahapurkhs and Brahmgyanis were from Nanaksar Samparda, truly Gyaan and Sharda da bhandaar. It's a shame people are abusing the name. Also it's worth noting many Nanaksar "Gurdwaras" are in fact, not Gurdwaras; they are called Thath - ਠਾਠ. These are more akin to ashrams and do not generally operate like regular Gurdwaras and therefore do not have a Nishan Sahib. Another one to add to the list of Canadian Nanaksar offshoots is Darbar Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji in Calagry - I think this is the Bulandpuri one. I believe this is the same group whos main Dera in Punjab currently has the tallest Nishan Sahib. Pretty cultish from what hear. Ravidassi Gurdwaras are just regular Gurdwaras which are run by the chamaar caste as Puzzled has said. They've in some way made Bhagat Ravidass Ji their patron saint given he was from the caste. Nothing wrong with it imo. The Jaikaara the OP refers to is: Bole So Nirbhey Sri Guru Ravidass Maharaaj Ki Jai. Most do the normal one too. But there's also the breakaway Ravidassis who made their own religion. They have shunned Sikhi. I don't know how many of these are in the west tbh. I was saddened on my last trip to India...was just checking out local pinds and in one of them, I decided to pop into the Ravidassi Gurdwara - there was nothing there, just a picture of Bhagat Ji. I asked an old bibi there what the deal was and she said we don't have Maharaaj Saroop, no Granthi, no nothing. This caste divide has lead to people making their own places of worship on principle but some of them are empty and these people are spiritually deprived....they honestly seemed helpless. I mean even one Sikh could at least just go and do Nitnem with them. Hopefully I'll be able to return there. Aaanyway, I think OP might actually be a troll....I mean he called Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj "Sikh Holy Book". And also welcome back Jagsaw Singh.
  3. @puzzled this is why I suggested the Panj Singh - they are considered an authority and represent the Guru. In theory, they can release one from this obligation by the power vested in them. They regularly make judgements concerning other matters e.g. when one has made a mistake, or when one needs guidance or permission of things that fall in a grey area. Along with many other things. But I also said in my suggestion that there would be a price to pay; tankah/punishment.
  4. What? I have never heard this. The simplest explanation of Anand Karaaj is when two people make a promise to Guru Sahib to fulfil their ghrist duty and help each other in Sikhi Jeevan which of course would be having Guru Sahib at the centre of the relationship. It is not marriage to Akaal Purkh. I wouldn't use this example anyway but even if you did want to, what you said is still flawed because by conflating Anand Kaaraj as "marriage to Akaal Purkh" you are implying those great Gursikhs who didn't have Anand Kaaraj were not married to Akaal Purkh. The marriage metaphor/analogy in Sikhi refers to death anyhow. I think it would just be a case by case basis because every situation is different. Probably with a decision best made on the advice of elder Gursikhs or Panj Singh who have been properly informed of the issues. The fact remains even if you see marriage as more contractual as people did in the days of old, life is no longer as simple as it was then, people are no longer as simple, and sh!t goes wrong. There is no one blanket ruling. And we should be realistic about these things in the Panth. I think something like....if two people absolutely cannot find any resolution even with intervention, and those involved (the elders or Panj Singh) recognise this and are in agreement with all factors considered, they should give the two individuals tankah, make the ruling that their promise and obligation has now ceased and send em on their way.
  5. Neo has his own forum; Sikh Awareness Forum. Some deep and good veechar there.
  6. This thread is unironically hilarious if I may say. But a true display of inter-Jatha unity. A Nihang Singh asks a question. An AKJ Singh replies. Correctly I might add. The Taksali Singh still tells him off lmfaooooo.
  7. MrDoaba

    value

    Well, excuse me for not being 108 Sant Baba Mahapurkh Singh Ji Maharaj Mahapurkhan Wale. Apni drishti sambaal.
  8. I'm not sure about actual travel within Italy, and I know you said you understand the airport situation but I saw this the other day and thought it's pertinent nonetheless:
  9. Back in the day many jananis didn't used to dance - my mum and her sister are terrible at dancing and when I was younger I would ask why they didn't dance like other ladies, and instead just stood there, did the mandatory clapping, and swiftly leave. I remember asking my Bibi about this too. According to them the "upper castes" did not engage in this behaviour; it was not permitted and seen as besharmi. However certain castes were permitted, and so dancers were hired I think? Can't remember. Ironic now though. You see women who are well past the age of wearing brightly coloured suits nach'ing and tapp'ing. Oh vi uchi jaat de. Weddings were so simple. Close family would go for Anand Kaaraj, everybody went back to the house, fed the baraat, sagan, bas. Hun pura drama hunda ah.
  10. MrDoaba

    value

    @puzzled Honestly in that situation it's our farj to say something. Nowadays people are overly sensitive but we should still say something...have to remain cool though and say it pyaar de naal.
  11. MrDoaba

    value

    I was once leaving the Gurdwara, was Gurpurab or Baisakhi maybe....anyway, this family was leaving at the same time and I was walking past them. The mother, forgive me for saying, looked typically like a baandri. And her kid, was probably about 7-8, he goes "Mum why don't they give wine here? In Churches they give wine" - in reference to communion, wondering why prasad wasn't like that. His mother told him to be quiet and carry on walking. Now I know kids are inquisitive and ask all manner of questions - and either way I'm not blaming the kid, it's not his fault - but come on man, querying "where da wine at?" in the Gurdwara goes to show how devoid of Sikhi some of these folks are. Not only that but even something as simple as what a Gurdwara is or what it stands for? When people take their kids anywhere else, they tend to explain what it is. For some reason the Gurdwara doesn't count. I'm no one to suggest who should or shouldn't bother going; even a maha paapi who matha teks in front of Maharaajs wipes much of their karam away but I'd be lying if I said the thought didn't occur to me as to why such people actually do bother going.
  12. Yeah heard many variations of this sakhi. Do you know what the actual source is? The point I was making is, throughout ithiaas, when Maharaaj seeked to change something, especially as big of a sanskaar as this, things have been clearer. I just find it odd that there isn't any Bani with the Sakhi - and - that a marriage ceremony came up only at the time of Guru Ramdas Ji. Big gap. Something doesn't quite add up. Hmm possibly with regards to the Pandit, although Vedic Saloks whilst walking around a Gutka? Idk about that. Nobody is fooling themselves. For some reason, and I don't actually know why, you want the fire to be representitive of Agni Devta. A fire can symbolise many things. Meanings and definitions change (as is the case for many things within Sikhi itself); it doesn't necessarily mean it's anthropomorphized or personified in the way you want it to be. This is the same level of reasoning people use to reject the use of jyot (and other practises in common) in Gurdwaras. I've always said, that if Namdharis were normal Sikhs, they would be one of the most rehitvaan, shardavaan Sampardas we have. Their Maryada is solid and they have many good qualities which they put into practise. Plus their Nitnem is big. I've been to Bhaini Sahib and it's really quite a sight. They have this little building where non-stop Jaap/Simran has been going on since like the 1920s. SGGSJ was prakash in one of the buidings as well; was some kinda of triple Akhand Paath going on. And fyi Ajeet, they do believe in Amrit Sanchar and Panj Kakkar, however they don't wear the Kirpan - they were banned from keeping Shastar during Brit rule and for some unbeknownst reason continued to stay without them. They have kept many Puratan traditions going. It's a shame they've fallen in other areas. And before anyone says it, no I am not promoting Namdharis or letting their manmat views off.
  13. Honestly, I don't know. I will look into the matter and see if some answers comes up. Bear in mind I was talking about regular Sikhs. Not the Gurus themselves. Even if there was a fire, it wouldn't have been Vedic in any sense. Well the difference is in what is meant and being suggested. To them "fire" means the whole Vedic shebang and a return to it. One can equally call out practises from Vedic times which are now obsolete and say "lets return to them!" right back to these groups. It's not hard to concieve in reality that certain things remained similar but the intention of disucssing the matter is important. In the case of weddings, there is very little information. Guru Sahib rejected the janeu for example, to which there is a Sakhi and Bani attached. But it is not until Guru Ramdas Ji that Sikhs get their own ceremony, and again I will repeat I was deducing with regards to the use of fire. Lots of ambiguity. Maybe the couple did just stay sitting or standing whilst Laavan were read by Sangat, maybe not. As for Sikhs such as my great-grandparents, that was just a matter of circumstance. One cannot use that argument to promote a return to Vedic style weddings. Yes I'm aware that within Hindu weddings it is indeed Agni Devta. But we are talking about Namdharis, and from what I have seen, there is no invocation from Rig Ved - that's what I'm saying, we assume that the fire present in a Kooka wedding is considered as Agni Devta when in actual fact to me, it seems as though it's....just a fire. Which really has no particular meaning per se; just a continuation of one aspect of the ceremony. They read Suhi Mahalla 4. A fire is only Agni "Devta" if one believes and invokes.
  14. I'm not suggesting the contrary, just speaking from a historical perspective. I'm personally in favour of simple weddings. Shastar Maryada was not around till far later and you know this yourself. There is no suggestion of what you're saying. See why does it have to be "Agni Devta"? I don't think Namdharis actually believe in Agni Devta lol. It's just a fire. Again from what I've heard when the the current Anand Kaaraj was being formalised, Namdharis had representation. They just decided to retain the fire. One is left wondering why Namdharis don't do phere of their Baba or his picture. FYI for the most part, Namdhari Maryada is actually very similar to Hazoor Sahib; very strict. Not excusing their other beliefs however. Perhaps. I've heard this being the case as well. But again it makes you wonder why four Laavs if one is just to stand.
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