BhForce
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On 4/2/2025 at 11:27 AM, VSinghz7 said:
Just because "Adi" ofc means "half" in Punjabi so maybe people started calling it "Half Granth" after the new "full" version was compiled?
Umm, no, bro "Adi" (ਆਦਿ) doesn't mean half.
There is a word, Adha (ਅੱਧਾ), which does mean half. Female form is Adhi (ਅੱਧੀ).
But the female form wouldn't be used with Granth, because Granth (ਗ੍ਰੰਥ) is male. It would be Addha Granth.
None of the above makes any sense, so, no "half" is not used in this context.
ਆਦਿ, on the other hand, means original or from the beginning.
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On 3/10/2025 at 10:18 AM, VSinghz7 said:
So what is the problem with starched turban if it is respected?
Bro, as stated above, you can do whatever you want. No one is snatching your starched turban, 2 weeks old, from your head.
But what you want is for Guru's Singhs to call your turban in accordance with rehit. That's not going to happen.
Also, why can't you simply tie your starched turban fresh every day? (Genuine question)
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On 2/7/2025 at 10:48 AM, VSinghz7 said:
I tie a Punjabi style dastar with starch. Why do people hate this so much?
Bro, there's nothing wrong with adding starch to your clothes to enhance their ability to "stand".
The objection is not to the starch. The objection is to taking it off in one swoop and putting it back on, like a hat.
"Like a hat" doesn't mean throwing it on the ground. Do Englishmen throw their hats on the ground? "Like a hat" means taking it off and putting it on a shelf. Don't pretend to be naive, bro.
The rehit, as stated by Bhai Nand Lal ji, is "paag chunaai kar bandai", that is, tie the turban section by section.
No one is forcing you to do anything, but please don't pretend you're following the original rehit of Guru Maharaj.
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What do you mean?
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Interesting. Though it is a display and not warfighting, but still skill in display can indicate skill in fighting (being able to hit the target or land a punch).
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9 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:
We do do pooja of Guru Sahib, this is reinforced in katha such as Suraj Prakas.
But sometimes worship can mean something else beside pooja
Oxford English Dictionary: Worship: reverence or veneration paid to a being or power regarded as supernatural or divine.
The problem is missionaries don't think of Guru Granth Sahib ji as supernatural or divine. Rather they think Gurbani is merely some poetry about God, who is divine.
Of course, this is totally wrong because 1) Gurbani is divine and is God
and 2) Gurbani says "the Pothi (book) is the abode of God".
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9 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:
Guru Sahibs jis were Sarguna saroop, this should also apply to Guru Granth Sahib.
It's the missionary mindset. They would either deny that Sikhs bowed before Guru Nanak Dev ji or would say that that was only "respect" and that they only "worshipped" God.
The reason, again, is they don't believe Guru is God.
9 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:worship can mean something else beside pooja.
No, bro, it's the same thing. But just in case Veer Manpreet Singh thinks it's different, we can just say "Fine, we won't worship Guru Granth Sahib ji, we will do pooja of Guru ji."
Part of this is caused by us using English terms and then quibbling over the definitions. If we just used the word pooja, there wouldn't be a problem.
Also, Sikhs don't read Gurbani. If they did, they wouldn't fall prey to missionary preaching.
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13 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:
The shortcut benti Chaupai sahib was literally started by anti-dasam elements like Bhasauria and in Harimandir Sahib by his associate Kartar Singh Kalaswalia. Elements like Bhasauria also cut bani from Guru Granth Sahib saroop, printing without Bhatt Savaiye and bhagat bani. Bhasauria and co were also involved in removing dasam granth saroop from gurdwaras such as Ramsar and Akal Takht, using spears and knives ripping saroops angs pages.
I recognize a lot of things happened in history. I'm not saying they didn't.
My point is simply you can't go around accusing "normal" Sikhs of being traitors just because they are following the "normal" rehit.
You can very kindly try to persuade them but please don't call them enemies just because they did Chaupai according to the SGPC Gutka.
That would be like calling someone who:
-Wears Western clothes
-Doesn't do Asa Di Vaar or Sukhmani Sahib daily
-Does shorter Rehras
-Only wears a kirpan and not the 5 shastars
-Wears a small kirpan and not a 3-foot kirpan
-Doesn't wear blue bana
-Doesn't ride a horse
an "enemy".
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Veer Manpreet Singh, a lay preacher, claims that
-Sikhs aren't supposed to worship Guru Granth Sahib ji.
-We are only supposed to worship God as is written in Guru Granth Sahib ji.
-We only "revere" Guru Granth Sahib ji.
He says a lot of other things in this video, some are good refutations of Hindu superstitions, but the reformers often go too far.
Anyways, what he is saying about not worshipping Guru Granth Sahib ji is totally wrong.
The reason is Guru Granth Sahib ji is Guru.
Guru is Satguru.
Satguru is God.
We worship God.
Therefore, we also worship Satguru (Guru Granth Sahib ji).
There are innumerable verses in Gurbani equating God and Guru.
ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਡੁਬਦਾ ਲਏ ਤਰਾਇ ॥੨॥
The Guru is the Supreme Lord and the Transcendent Master. The Guru floats (saves) the drowning one. p49ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥
Know the Guru and God as One. p864ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲਿ ਤੁਲਿ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਖੋਜਿ ਡਿਠਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੁ ॥
There is no one at par with the Guru. I have searched and seen the whole universe. p49(If the Guru is the greatest in the whole universe, shouldn't we worship the Guru?)
I'd like to ask Manpreet Singh what is worship? Any reasonable definition would include obeisance, remembrance, and praise. Those are exactly the same things Gurbani says to do regarding Guru!
Remembrance and obeisance:
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਸਦ ਸਦਾ ਸਮ੍ਹਾਰੇ ॥
Ever, ever, I think of the True Guru,
ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਕੇਸ ਸੰਗਿ ਝਾਰੇ ॥੧॥
and the Guru's feet I brush with my head's hair. p387
Praise:
ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਆਪਿ ॥
The Guru himself is the transcendent Lord and the supreme master.
ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਪਿ ॥੪॥੧੬॥੬੭॥
Throughout the eight watches of the day, O Nanak meditate thou on the Guru. p387In fact, Gurbani says the way to find God is to worship (puja) of Guru:
ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਧੋਇ ਪੂਜਹੁ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲਹੁ ਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Washing and bathing the True Guru's feet, worship thou them. In this way thou shall obtain my Lord Master. Pause. p1118Could it be any clearer that we are to worship Guru ji?
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On 7/15/2024 at 11:31 AM, ipledgeblue said:
The problem is, they performed the politics ridden anti-dasam Bhasauria mutilated cut version of Benti Chaupai
Bro, reciting a shorter Chaupai Sahib is hardly "anti-Dasam". It's fine to argue that the longer Chaupai is more traditional, but the short one isn't anti-Dasam.
That's like claiming shorter Rehras is anti-Guru Granth Sahib ji just because there are fewer selections from Guru Granth Sahib. It might not be traditional, but it's not anti-Guru Granth Sahib.
I prefer the longer versions, but let's not exaggerate.
On 7/15/2024 at 11:31 AM, ipledgeblue said:which is disrespectful to traditional puraatan samrpadaiye and mahapurakh.
Every tradition has a slightly different Rehras version. Nanaksar vs Taksal vs Nihangs and so on. The basic template for Rehras is at the beginning of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Later, Chaupai Sahib was added and Anand Sahib always follows as the end of a process.
Then some sangats added more saloks to start Rehras and others were added at the end. Some additional selections from Dasam Bani were also added, but it wasn't the same ones for every sangat.
The important thing is to not hate on each other for these variations.
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On 7/19/2024 at 1:09 AM, ipledgeblue said:
It was the "mainstream" Chaupai Sahib you will hear at a Singh Sabha gurdwaras, usually so-called Ramgarhia gurdwaras and also for the past 100 year or so in Harimandir Sahib under the current committee system.
Umm, so you're upset that this jatha did Chaupai the same way it's being done at Harimandar Sahib for 100 years? Shouldn't you be upset at the manager of Darbar Sahib? I'm not saying that Sikhs who are aware of certain issues shouldn't do the longer Chaupai, but there are only so many battles you can fight.
Instead of calling some jatha traitors because they're doing the (for better or worse) "standard" Chauapai published by the SGPC, it would be better to change things from the central point.
You can't fault the average Sikh for picking up the average Gutka and doing paath.
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On 7/15/2024 at 11:31 AM, ipledgeblue said:
The problem is, they performed the politics ridden anti-dasam Bhasauria mutilated cut version of Benti Chaupai
Bro, can you post from what line to what line they did paath of?
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OK, I found out:
In the very back standing alone in center: Jas Athwal (purple turban)
Middle row from left: Gurinder Singh Josan (turban), Harpreet Kaur Uppal, Warinder Juss (turban), Dr Jeevun Sandher (beard),
Baggy Shanker (mona)
Front row from left: Sonia Kaur Kumar, Tanmanjit Singh Dhesi, Preet Kaur Gill, Kirith Entwistle (Kirith Kaur Ahluwalia), Satvir Kaur0 -
On 7/5/2024 at 4:34 AM, ipledgeblue said:
https://x.com/GurpreetSSahota/status/1809108238581051411
So far nine Sikh candidates related to Labour Party secured their seats in UK parliament and will be part of new British Government.
I recognize Tan Dhesi and Preet K Gill from before. Who are the others?
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On 7/5/2024 at 5:06 AM, ipledgeblue said:
When you are at home, you can do ardas in front of sastar as well.
Good point. In fact, in the old days, there simply were not enough birs of Gur Granth Sahib ji to go around. So prakash of shasters was done in some Gurdwaras.
You can matha tek to a Gutka Sahib, too.
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On 6/24/2024 at 8:44 PM, Samsinghk said:
Can you please elaborate more about the photo of harmandir sahib?
Basically, Harimandir Sahib is holy because it's a place of singing praise of God:
ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
Gauri 5th Guru.ਧੰਨੁ ਇਹੁ ਥਾਨੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ ॥
Blessed is this place, where they sing praises of the World Master.ਕੁਸਲ ਖੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਿ ਬਸਾਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
The Lord Himself Blesseth them with peace and pleasure.But a photo isn't that. It's not the real thing. Similarly, a statue of a deity is not the deity. So we shouldn't be worshipping the photo.
On 6/24/2024 at 8:44 PM, Samsinghk said:Also, please elaborate more about pathak darshan of guru sahib
One type of partakh (immediate) darshan of Guru ji is going to the Gurdwara to see Guru Granth Sahib ji. Because the Book is the abode of God:
ਪੋਥੀ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕਾ ਥਾਨੁ ॥
This Holy Book (the Adi Granth) is the abode of the Transcendent Lord.ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Whosoever sings the World-Lord's praise in the society of the saints, he is blessed with the perfect Divine knowledge. Pause. p1226There is another level of Darshan which Guru ji pines for and which is above merely going to the Gurdwara:
ਕਰਿ ਦਇਆ ਮਇਆ ਦਇਆਲ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਹੋਹੁ ਦੀਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਰਾ ॥
Show compassion and kindness, O Merciful Lord, and by king to the meek.
ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਸ ਪਿਆਸੇ ਮਿਲਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਸੁਖੁ ਸਾਰਾ ॥੧॥
Supplicates Nanak, I am thirsting for a sight of Thee. By obtaining a view of Thine I receive all the happiness.This Darshan is found through Bani and worship:
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ ॥
My Lord God! Thy Gurubani is Nectar.ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ ॥
By continuously hearing it, I have obtained the highest rank.ਜਲਨਿ ਬੁਝੀ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਮਨੂਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
The burning within me is extinguished and my soul is rendered cool on having the sight of the True Guru1 -
On 6/21/2024 at 9:18 AM, Samsinghk said:
i feel that i am not respecting the authority of harmandir sahib or hazur sahib.
The picture of Harimandir is not Harimandir Sahib.
Best is to go to Gurdwara and do ardas at a quiet time. Just stand to the side to allow people to matha tek if they are coming in.
While it's true that God's everywhere, we don't have the eyes to see him at our current spiritual level so the patakh darshan of Guru Ji is important.
ਜੀਅ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ॥
Regarding thy mind's woe, make supplication before thy Guru. p519ਤੁਧੁ ਆਗੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰਾ ॥
Before Thee is my supplication. My soul and body are all Thine. p3831 -
On 6/16/2024 at 9:50 AM, Jassu said:
I’m marrying into a non Punjabi family and me and my partner went to a Sikh wedding recently because he’s never experienced one and he was shocked and said he thought Sikhs were way more conservative.
Non-Punjabi Indian or gora?
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On 6/7/2024 at 12:25 PM, ipledgeblue said:
throwing money over dancers (I think she said it was dancers)
I hate the way people throw money. It's usually a manmukh tradition to show how wealthy you are and you can just throw rupees around.
It's nothing more than showing off.
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On 6/7/2024 at 12:25 PM, ipledgeblue said:
I haven't seen this happening myself, with old men wearing gatray drinking shraab, in uk or Panjab?
While drinking alcohol is never a good thing, hearsay about such things may be unreliable. The fact is, at wedding receptions, everybody goes: children, drinkers, and non-drinkers.
Obviously, there are both alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks available.
Are the aunties absolutely sure the uncles were drinking whiskey?
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On 6/10/2024 at 7:19 AM, ipledgeblue said:
decided to research this online and there has been discussions about this:
While some are calling for the banning of the series, I don't know if that's going to happen.
I do think we might explore bans on the other end: I.e., the actors.
Whether they were Sikhs or not, weren't they ashamed to portray religious Sikhs as participating in such acts? We can explore social boycotts of the actors and also questioning them in social media and other places. If they get enough pushback, the next actor who is asked to portray such a scene may have second thoughts.
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On 6/10/2024 at 7:14 AM, ipledgeblue said:
This is alarming as they are trying to portay amritdharis in such a disgusting way, on a hindi drama! The act isn't being done by an amritdhari, but still a sardar type person and the amritdharis are part of the gang that is watching!
I haven't watched the entire series, but just from 13 minutes onwards.
What happens is that one young man cuts up or kills three young men. The 10 or so men from the village come and rape the killer's mother.
Honestly, wasn't Poonam Dhillon (the actress who plays the mother) ashamed to film the scene? The scence could have just been portrayed only with audio and the reactions of the killer's father.
While the killer is portrayed as a mona and the victims as keshadhari, the killer's father is portrayed as keshadhari, too. So it's not a Hindu-Sikh conflict, apparently.
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On 1/31/2023 at 9:17 AM, Guest Gupt said:
With dasvandh, do you deduct it from gross or net pay.
Net pay after taxes. If you don't agree, think about this: If you were a trader and started off in China with silk that cost 100 rupees and came to India, and you had to pay total 800 rupees taxes at every small kingdom along the way, and then sold your goods for 1000 rupees, you'd have 100 rupees left, right? If your daswandh is on the gross, that's 100 rupees, meaning you have nothing left.
Obviously, you owe only 10% of 100, not 10% of 1000.
On 1/31/2023 at 9:17 AM, Guest Gupt said:If you deduct from take home pay, then is it 10% from your net pay after taking out rent, mortgage, bills etc?
No, it's 10% before bills and other expenses. These expenses are not your expenses to earn money. They are consumption.
If you are a business owner, you take out all expenses, including rent, shop electricity, cost of goods sold, advertising, and government taxes. Whatever is left is your profit and you owe 10% of that.If you are an employee, you are also entitled to deduct the cost of earning money. That would be government taxes. Everything else is consumption.
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On 8/22/2023 at 1:45 AM, Guest goabove !!! said:
No one!!! talks about Simran.
No, bro, it's simply not true that no one talks about Simran. Where did you hear that? Swingdon?
The entire Sikh world talks about doing Simran, whether it's Maskeen ji, Giani Pinderpal Singh, Giani Kulwant Singh Jawaddi, or Sants.
So what are you talking about?On 8/22/2023 at 1:45 AM, Guest goabove !!! said:Gurbani tells us to do naam Simran.
Agreed.
On 8/22/2023 at 1:45 AM, Guest goabove !!! said:Every bani is equal powerful and great!
Agreed.
On 8/22/2023 at 1:45 AM, Guest goabove !!! said:I've seen enough people making differences between baania.
Well, if every bani were exactly the same, then why would Guru ji even write anything after writing Japji Sahib? We should all enjoy all the banis.
On 8/22/2023 at 1:45 AM, Guest goabove !!! said:Reading gurbani but not doing Simran is like :
reading the manual to build a protective house from a storm . The manual says to meditate. Reader does not meditate but only stays reading the manual,
No, Gurbani tells you to do Simran, but it's not just "the manual". Gurbani itself also has cleansing powers. I'm not saying not to do Simran. Do it.
But Gurbani is not merely "the manual". Reading and singing Gurbani is spiritually helpful:
ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਭਾਖਿਆ ॥
ਗਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਪੜਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੈ ਤੂ ਰਾਖਿਆ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
The Lord's Bani and the words are the best utterances. Ever sing hear and recite them, O brother and the Perfect Guru shall save thee. Pause. p611
Here Guru ji shows the importance of both Bani and Naam:ਆਇਓ ਸੁਨਨ ਪੜਨ ਕਉ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ਲਗਹਿ ਅਨ ਲਾਲਚਿ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
The mortal has come to hear and utter Bani. Forgetting the Name thou attached thyself to other desires. Vain is thy life, O mortal. Pause. p1219
Are there any house manuals that say to read and sing the house manual?0
do uk ramgharia gurdwaras disrespect langar maryada and treat it as a restaurant, is their use of ramgharia label a scam?
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
Posted
No, bro, what are you talking about? Other than a handful of historic Gurdwaras (like Darbar Sahib), every other Gurdwara, like neighborhood Gurdwaras, generally have a mat down the way in the middle, and men sit on one side and women on the other.
Historical Gurdwaras in which Sangat comes and sits for a short time usually have mixed seating. Smaller village-level historical Gurdwaras usually have the standard male/female separation.
The langar hall is a different matter. The reason there is separation on western Gurdwaras is simply because there is usually stairs leading down from men's and women's sides from the darbar level. So men and women are naturally on one side or the other.
In India, langar is usually on ground level and there is one entrance so that doesn't apply.