BhForce

Interesting. Though it is a display and not warfighting, but still skill in display can indicate skill in fighting (being able to hit the target or land a punch).

Oxford English Dictionary: Worship: reverence or veneration paid to a being or power regarded as supernatural or divine. The problem is missionaries don't think of Guru Granth Sahib ji as supernatural or divine. Rather they think Gurbani is merely some poetry about God, who is divine. Of course, this is totally wrong because 1) Gurbani is divine and is God and 2) Gurbani says "the Pothi (book) is the abode of God".

It's the missionary mindset. They would either deny that Sikhs bowed before Guru Nanak Dev ji or would say that that was only "respect" and that they only "worshipped" God. The reason, again, is they don't believe Guru is God. No, bro, it's the same thing. But just in case Veer Manpreet Singh thinks it's different, we can just say "Fine, we won't worship Guru Granth Sahib ji, we will do pooja of Guru ji." Part of this is caused by us using English terms and then quibbling over the definitions. If we just used the word pooja, there wouldn't be a problem. Also, Sikhs don't read Gurbani. If they did, they wouldn't fall prey to missionary preaching.

I recognize a lot of things happened in history. I'm not saying they didn't. My point is simply you can't go around accusing "normal" Sikhs of being traitors just because they are following the "normal" rehit. You can very kindly try to persuade them but please don't call them enemies just because they did Chaupai according to the SGPC Gutka. That would be like calling someone who: -Wears Western clothes -Doesn't do Asa Di Vaar or Sukhmani Sahib daily -Does shorter Rehras -Only wears a kirpan and not the 5 shastars -Wears a small kirpan and not a 3-foot kirpan -Doesn't wear blue bana -Doesn't ride a horse an "enemy".

Veer Manpreet Singh, a lay preacher, claims that -Sikhs aren't supposed to worship Guru Granth Sahib ji. -We are only supposed to worship God as is written in Guru Granth Sahib ji. -We only "revere" Guru Granth Sahib ji. He says a lot of other things in this video, some are good refutations of Hindu superstitions, but the reformers often go too far. Anyways, what he is saying about not worshipping Guru Granth Sahib ji is totally wrong. The reason is Guru Granth Sahib ji is Guru. Guru is Satguru. Satguru is God. We worship God. Therefore, we also worship Satguru (Guru Granth Sahib ji). There are innumerable verses in Gurbani equating God and Guru. ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਡੁਬਦਾ ਲਏ ਤਰਾਇ ॥੨॥ The Guru is the Supreme Lord and the Transcendent Master. The Guru floats (saves) the drowning one. p49 ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ Know the Guru and God as One. p864 ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲਿ ਤੁਲਿ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਖੋਜਿ ਡਿਠਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੁ ॥ There is no one at par with the Guru. I have searched and seen the whole universe. p49 (If the Guru is the greatest in the whole universe, shouldn't we worship the Guru?) I'd like to ask Manpreet Singh what is worship? Any reasonable definition would include obeisance, remembrance, and praise. Those are exactly the same things Gurbani says to do regarding Guru! Remembrance and obeisance: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਸਦ ਸਦਾ ਸਮ੍ਹਾਰੇ ॥ Ever, ever, I think of the True Guru, ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਕੇਸ ਸੰਗਿ ਝਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ and the Guru's feet I brush with my head's hair. p387 Praise: ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਆਪਿ ॥ The Guru himself is the transcendent Lord and the supreme master. ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਪਿ ॥੪॥੧੬॥੬੭॥ Throughout the eight watches of the day, O Nanak meditate thou on the Guru. p387 In fact, Gurbani says the way to find God is to worship (puja) of Guru: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਧੋਇ ਪੂਜਹੁ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲਹੁ ਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Washing and bathing the True Guru's feet, worship thou them. In this way thou shall obtain my Lord Master. Pause. p1118 Could it be any clearer that we are to worship Guru ji?

Bro, reciting a shorter Chaupai Sahib is hardly "anti-Dasam". It's fine to argue that the longer Chaupai is more traditional, but the short one isn't anti-Dasam. That's like claiming shorter Rehras is anti-Guru Granth Sahib ji just because there are fewer selections from Guru Granth Sahib. It might not be traditional, but it's not anti-Guru Granth Sahib. I prefer the longer versions, but let's not exaggerate. Every tradition has a slightly different Rehras version. Nanaksar vs Taksal vs Nihangs and so on. The basic template for Rehras is at the beginning of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Later, Chaupai Sahib was added and Anand Sahib always follows as the end of a process. Then some sangats added more saloks to start Rehras and others were added at the end. Some additional selections from Dasam Bani were also added, but it wasn't the same ones for every sangat. The important thing is to not hate on each other for these variations.

Umm, so you're upset that this jatha did Chaupai the same way it's being done at Harimandar Sahib for 100 years? Shouldn't you be upset at the manager of Darbar Sahib? I'm not saying that Sikhs who are aware of certain issues shouldn't do the longer Chaupai, but there are only so many battles you can fight. Instead of calling some jatha traitors because they're doing the (for better or worse) "standard" Chauapai published by the SGPC, it would be better to change things from the central point. You can't fault the average Sikh for picking up the average Gutka and doing paath.

Bro, can you post from what line to what line they did paath of?

OK, I found out: In the very back standing alone in center: Jas Athwal (purple turban) Middle row from left: Gurinder Singh Josan (turban), Harpreet Kaur Uppal, Warinder Juss (turban), Dr Jeevun Sandher (beard), Baggy Shanker (mona) Front row from left: Sonia Kaur Kumar, Tanmanjit Singh Dhesi, Preet Kaur Gill, Kirith Entwistle (Kirith Kaur Ahluwalia), Satvir Kaur

I recognize Tan Dhesi and Preet K Gill from before. Who are the others?

Good point. In fact, in the old days, there simply were not enough birs of Gur Granth Sahib ji to go around. So prakash of shasters was done in some Gurdwaras. You can matha tek to a Gutka Sahib, too.

Basically, Harimandir Sahib is holy because it's a place of singing praise of God: ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Gauri 5th Guru. ਧੰਨੁ ਇਹੁ ਥਾਨੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ ॥ Blessed is this place, where they sing praises of the World Master. ਕੁਸਲ ਖੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਿ ਬਸਾਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The Lord Himself Blesseth them with peace and pleasure. But a photo isn't that. It's not the real thing. Similarly, a statue of a deity is not the deity. So we shouldn't be worshipping the photo. One type of partakh (immediate) darshan of Guru ji is going to the Gurdwara to see Guru Granth Sahib ji. Because the Book is the abode of God: ਪੋਥੀ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕਾ ਥਾਨੁ ॥ This Holy Book (the Adi Granth) is the abode of the Transcendent Lord. ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Whosoever sings the World-Lord's praise in the society of the saints, he is blessed with the perfect Divine knowledge. Pause. p1226 There is another level of Darshan which Guru ji pines for and which is above merely going to the Gurdwara: ਕਰਿ ਦਇਆ ਮਇਆ ਦਇਆਲ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਹੋਹੁ ਦੀਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਰਾ ॥ Show compassion and kindness, O Merciful Lord, and by king to the meek. ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਸ ਪਿਆਸੇ ਮਿਲਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਸੁਖੁ ਸਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ Supplicates Nanak, I am thirsting for a sight of Thee. By obtaining a view of Thine I receive all the happiness. This Darshan is found through Bani and worship: ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ ॥ My Lord God! Thy Gurubani is Nectar. ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ ॥ By continuously hearing it, I have obtained the highest rank. ਜਲਨਿ ਬੁਝੀ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਮਨੂਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥ The burning within me is extinguished and my soul is rendered cool on having the sight of the True Guru

The picture of Harimandir is not Harimandir Sahib. Best is to go to Gurdwara and do ardas at a quiet time. Just stand to the side to allow people to matha tek if they are coming in. While it's true that God's everywhere, we don't have the eyes to see him at our current spiritual level so the patakh darshan of Guru Ji is important. ਜੀਅ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ॥ Regarding thy mind's woe, make supplication before thy Guru. p519 ਤੁਧੁ ਆਗੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰਾ ॥ Before Thee is my supplication. My soul and body are all Thine. p383

Non-Punjabi Indian or gora?

I hate the way people throw money. It's usually a manmukh tradition to show how wealthy you are and you can just throw rupees around. It's nothing more than showing off.