BhForce

Veer Manpreet Singh, a lay preacher, claims that -Sikhs aren't supposed to worship Guru Granth Sahib ji. -We are only supposed to worship God as is written in Guru Granth Sahib ji. -We only "revere" Guru Granth Sahib ji. He says a lot of other things in this video, some are good refutations of Hindu superstitions, but the reformers often go too far. Anyways, what he is saying about not worshipping Guru Granth Sahib ji is totally wrong. The reason is Guru Granth Sahib ji is Guru. Guru is Satguru. Satguru is God. We worship God. Therefore, we also worship Satguru (Guru Granth Sahib ji). There are innumerable verses in Gurbani equating God and Guru. ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਡੁਬਦਾ ਲਏ ਤਰਾਇ ॥੨॥ The Guru is the Supreme Lord and the Transcendent Master. The Guru floats (saves) the drowning one. p49 ਗੁਰੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ Know the Guru and God as One. p864 ਗੁਰ ਨਾਲਿ ਤੁਲਿ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਖੋਜਿ ਡਿਠਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡੁ ॥ There is no one at par with the Guru. I have searched and seen the whole universe. p49 (If the Guru is the greatest in the whole universe, shouldn't we worship the Guru?) I'd like to ask Manpreet Singh what is worship? Any reasonable definition would include obeisance, remembrance, and praise. Those are exactly the same things Gurbani says to do regarding Guru! Remembrance and obeisance: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਅਪਨਾ ਸਦ ਸਦਾ ਸਮ੍ਹਾਰੇ ॥ Ever, ever, I think of the True Guru, ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਕੇਸ ਸੰਗਿ ਝਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ and the Guru's feet I brush with my head's hair. p387 Praise: ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਆਪਿ ॥ The Guru himself is the transcendent Lord and the supreme master. ਆਠ ਪਹਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਪਿ ॥੪॥੧੬॥੬੭॥ Throughout the eight watches of the day, O Nanak meditate thou on the Guru. p387 In fact, Gurbani says the way to find God is to worship (puja) of Guru: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਧੋਇ ਪੂਜਹੁ ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਲਹੁ ਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Washing and bathing the True Guru's feet, worship thou them. In this way thou shall obtain my Lord Master. Pause. p1118 Could it be any clearer that we are to worship Guru ji?

Bro, reciting a shorter Chaupai Sahib is hardly "anti-Dasam". It's fine to argue that the longer Chaupai is more traditional, but the short one isn't anti-Dasam. That's like claiming shorter Rehras is anti-Guru Granth Sahib ji just because there are fewer selections from Guru Granth Sahib. It might not be traditional, but it's not anti-Guru Granth Sahib. I prefer the longer versions, but let's not exaggerate. Every tradition has a slightly different Rehras version. Nanaksar vs Taksal vs Nihangs and so on. The basic template for Rehras is at the beginning of Guru Granth Sahib ji. Later, Chaupai Sahib was added and Anand Sahib always follows as the end of a process. Then some sangats added more saloks to start Rehras and others were added at the end. Some additional selections from Dasam Bani were also added, but it wasn't the same ones for every sangat. The important thing is to not hate on each other for these variations.

Umm, so you're upset that this jatha did Chaupai the same way it's being done at Harimandar Sahib for 100 years? Shouldn't you be upset at the manager of Darbar Sahib? I'm not saying that Sikhs who are aware of certain issues shouldn't do the longer Chaupai, but there are only so many battles you can fight. Instead of calling some jatha traitors because they're doing the (for better or worse) "standard" Chauapai published by the SGPC, it would be better to change things from the central point. You can't fault the average Sikh for picking up the average Gutka and doing paath.

Bro, can you post from what line to what line they did paath of?

OK, I found out: In the very back standing alone in center: Jas Athwal (purple turban) Middle row from left: Gurinder Singh Josan (turban), Harpreet Kaur Uppal, Warinder Juss (turban), Dr Jeevun Sandher (beard), Baggy Shanker (mona) Front row from left: Sonia Kaur Kumar, Tanmanjit Singh Dhesi, Preet Kaur Gill, Kirith Entwistle (Kirith Kaur Ahluwalia), Satvir Kaur

I recognize Tan Dhesi and Preet K Gill from before. Who are the others?

Good point. In fact, in the old days, there simply were not enough birs of Gur Granth Sahib ji to go around. So prakash of shasters was done in some Gurdwaras. You can matha tek to a Gutka Sahib, too.

Basically, Harimandir Sahib is holy because it's a place of singing praise of God: ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ Gauri 5th Guru. ਧੰਨੁ ਇਹੁ ਥਾਨੁ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੁਣ ਗਾਏ ॥ Blessed is this place, where they sing praises of the World Master. ਕੁਸਲ ਖੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਿ ਬਸਾਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The Lord Himself Blesseth them with peace and pleasure. But a photo isn't that. It's not the real thing. Similarly, a statue of a deity is not the deity. So we shouldn't be worshipping the photo. One type of partakh (immediate) darshan of Guru ji is going to the Gurdwara to see Guru Granth Sahib ji. Because the Book is the abode of God: ਪੋਥੀ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕਾ ਥਾਨੁ ॥ This Holy Book (the Adi Granth) is the abode of the Transcendent Lord. ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਗਾਵਹਿ ਗੁਣ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Whosoever sings the World-Lord's praise in the society of the saints, he is blessed with the perfect Divine knowledge. Pause. p1226 There is another level of Darshan which Guru ji pines for and which is above merely going to the Gurdwara: ਕਰਿ ਦਇਆ ਮਇਆ ਦਇਆਲ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਹੋਹੁ ਦੀਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਰਾ ॥ Show compassion and kindness, O Merciful Lord, and by king to the meek. ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਸ ਪਿਆਸੇ ਮਿਲਿ ਦਰਸਨ ਸੁਖੁ ਸਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ Supplicates Nanak, I am thirsting for a sight of Thee. By obtaining a view of Thine I receive all the happiness. This Darshan is found through Bani and worship: ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੇਰੀ ॥ My Lord God! Thy Gurubani is Nectar. ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ ॥ By continuously hearing it, I have obtained the highest rank. ਜਲਨਿ ਬੁਝੀ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਹੋਇ ਮਨੂਆ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਪਾਏ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥ The burning within me is extinguished and my soul is rendered cool on having the sight of the True Guru

The picture of Harimandir is not Harimandir Sahib. Best is to go to Gurdwara and do ardas at a quiet time. Just stand to the side to allow people to matha tek if they are coming in. While it's true that God's everywhere, we don't have the eyes to see him at our current spiritual level so the patakh darshan of Guru Ji is important. ਜੀਅ ਕੀ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਹੋਇ ਸੁ ਗੁਰ ਪਹਿ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ॥ Regarding thy mind's woe, make supplication before thy Guru. p519 ਤੁਧੁ ਆਗੈ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਭੁ ਤੇਰਾ ॥ Before Thee is my supplication. My soul and body are all Thine. p383

Non-Punjabi Indian or gora?

I hate the way people throw money. It's usually a manmukh tradition to show how wealthy you are and you can just throw rupees around. It's nothing more than showing off.

While drinking alcohol is never a good thing, hearsay about such things may be unreliable. The fact is, at wedding receptions, everybody goes: children, drinkers, and non-drinkers. Obviously, there are both alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks available. Are the aunties absolutely sure the uncles were drinking whiskey?

While some are calling for the banning of the series, I don't know if that's going to happen. I do think we might explore bans on the other end: I.e., the actors. Whether they were Sikhs or not, weren't they ashamed to portray religious Sikhs as participating in such acts? We can explore social boycotts of the actors and also questioning them in social media and other places. If they get enough pushback, the next actor who is asked to portray such a scene may have second thoughts.

I haven't watched the entire series, but just from 13 minutes onwards. What happens is that one young man cuts up or kills three young men. The 10 or so men from the village come and rape the killer's mother. Honestly, wasn't Poonam Dhillon (the actress who plays the mother) ashamed to film the scene? The scence could have just been portrayed only with audio and the reactions of the killer's father. While the killer is portrayed as a mona and the victims as keshadhari, the killer's father is portrayed as keshadhari, too. So it's not a Hindu-Sikh conflict, apparently.

Net pay after taxes. If you don't agree, think about this: If you were a trader and started off in China with silk that cost 100 rupees and came to India, and you had to pay total 800 rupees taxes at every small kingdom along the way, and then sold your goods for 1000 rupees, you'd have 100 rupees left, right? If your daswandh is on the gross, that's 100 rupees, meaning you have nothing left. Obviously, you owe only 10% of 100, not 10% of 1000. No, it's 10% before bills and other expenses. These expenses are not your expenses to earn money. They are consumption. If you are a business owner, you take out all expenses, including rent, shop electricity, cost of goods sold, advertising, and government taxes. Whatever is left is your profit and you owe 10% of that. If you are an employee, you are also entitled to deduct the cost of earning money. That would be government taxes. Everything else is consumption.

No, bro, it's simply not true that no one talks about Simran. Where did you hear that? Swingdon? The entire Sikh world talks about doing Simran, whether it's Maskeen ji, Giani Pinderpal Singh, Giani Kulwant Singh Jawaddi, or Sants. So what are you talking about? Agreed. Agreed. Well, if every bani were exactly the same, then why would Guru ji even write anything after writing Japji Sahib? We should all enjoy all the banis. No, Gurbani tells you to do Simran, but it's not just "the manual". Gurbani itself also has cleansing powers. I'm not saying not to do Simran. Do it. But Gurbani is not merely "the manual". Reading and singing Gurbani is spiritually helpful: ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਬਦੁ ਸੁਭਾਖਿਆ ॥ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਪੜਹੁ ਨਿਤ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੈ ਤੂ ਰਾਖਿਆ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The Lord's Bani and the words are the best utterances. Ever sing hear and recite them, O brother and the Perfect Guru shall save thee. Pause. p611 Here Guru ji shows the importance of both Bani and Naam: ਆਇਓ ਸੁਨਨ ਪੜਨ ਕਉ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ਲਗਹਿ ਅਨ ਲਾਲਚਿ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The mortal has come to hear and utter Bani. Forgetting the Name thou attached thyself to other desires. Vain is thy life, O mortal. Pause. p1219 Are there any house manuals that say to read and sing the house manual?

All of these are suppositions, bro. Linguists know that, generally, all the social classes of a physical area speak the same language, though some classes may use more advanced vocabulary. I'm talking about the syntax. That is, unless the King is an invader, which Porus was not. When you say Punjabi wasn't very evolved, what do you mean? The syntax must have been roughly the same. As for vocabulary, do you really think Punjabis at the time did nothing more than grunt to express their thoughts? That they had no shades of meaning? Such as hot/cold, red/yellow/blue, angry/sweet/loving/sad, etc? Why must we always have an inferiority complex?

There was a young Singh from abroad who went to Anandpur Sahib Hola and got into a fight with some Punjabis who were playing loud non-religious music. He had bana and a weapon or two. There were more of them than him. He ended up losing his life. Don't be like that. Not worth it to fight manmukhs. @californiasardar1 ਮੂਰਖੈ ਨਾਲਿ ਨ ਲੁਝੀਐ ॥੧੯॥ Argue not with a fool. p473

Bro, if by weapons you mean a rifle, OK. Otherwise, you won't be questioned by police for merely having a full length kirpan or salotar. You can also have airguns and air rifles without license. The "free train travel" is in the lower class of the Indian train system. Not recommended. Also, you can travel on airplanes in India with a small kirpan. Over your clothes or under, it doesn't matter. Keep it a reasonable small size and you can get your bigger kirpan from your luggage when you arrive. No one bothers you and the vast majority of people are respectful. Practically, the places you'll be going to are Punjab, Delhi, Hemkunt Sahib, Patna Sahib, and Hazur Sahib. You simply will not have any problems there.

The simple answer is: where would you "include" it? I mean if Bhagat Kabir ji wrote a shabad and it makes sense to include it in the Raag Gauri section, then Guru Arjan Dev ji "included" it. The shabads of the bhagats and the Gurus after Guru Nanak Dev ji all kind of fit in. But where would Guru Gobind Singh ji's bani be "included"? It wouldn't. It would all have to go in the end, not "into" Guru Granth Sahib ji. Effectively, it would be like binding two different books together. So the real question for your friends is: Why would Guru ji want to bind two different granths together?

You should go to Kartarpur Sahib with devotion and humility. But there's nothing wrong with shopping afterwards. Guru Ram Dass ji invited merchants from all over India to come live and trade at Amritsar. Business is a part of life. You have to earn money to eat, live, and meditate.

So, just to clarify, he's still running Sikhnet, with all of those requests for money, and he doesn't believe in Sikhi anymore?? Crazy.

Umm, that's totally irrational, bro. There are plenty of prakash-dara Singhs in Punjab (less than we'd like, but still plenty). No one cares that you are sabat soorat. It isn't 1986. You can walk around in chola, kurta-pajama, or jeans. Whatever. If you want the look @dallysingh101 is referring to, just go into a cheap clothing shop (not a Western-style mall) and buy some shirts for 250 rupees or a track suit for 2000 rupees. You'll get the cheap stuff made in some sweatshop in Bombay.

I agree we're not born with sin like the Christians think. Also I agree we have effects of karma. But Gurbani does state that the body contains both sin and charity (goodness): ਕਾਇਆ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਪਾਪੁ ਪੁੰਨੁ ਦੁਇ ਭਾਈ ॥ Within the body are the two brothers sin and virtue. p126 Actually, we do need to be saved. Gurbani calls this "udhaar" (uplift). Without Satguru, souls are liable to spiritual death: ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨ ਭੇਟਿਓ ਸੇ ਭਾਗਹੀਣ ਵਸਿ ਕਾਲ ॥ p40 Those who have not met Satguru Purakh are unfortunate and liable to death. So, yeah, we do need to be saved, and Guru ji does the saving. The reason Satguru is the one to save is because God has given Satguru the "key" (kunji): ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੭॥ In the True Guru's hand is the key. None else can open the door. By perfect good fortune the Guru is met. p124

That's unfortunate to hear. Could you give any more information? Who was this "baba"? He just disappeared with people's money? Obviously, you should donate your money to known institutions or poor people that you can verify the need of through friends and family in Punjab.