sikha

haha this brings back lots of memories. thank you for sharing

As far as i have been told, Krishna is also considered an avatar of God in Gurmat. He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9|| http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...=7&id=46421 the above shabad of the indian avatars is a praise to God, and not vishnu if im correct. i apologise if i have said anything wrong

excellent post namstang. As namstang has already written what i wanted to say i am just going to post a few shabads regarding the issue, and afterwards i would like to hear how you would interpret them. To me Gurmat/Sikhism is not a new religion that fell down from the blue sky out of nowhere in the 15. century, but rather a religion that has its root going back before times of creation. The Bhatta de sawaiye and vaars of Bhai Gurdass are jewels in understanding sikhism. The supreme soul/jyot of Satguru Nanak has come earlier: Sawaiye on Guru Nanak: ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥ In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf. ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥ In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty. ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥ In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans. ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥ You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness. ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥ In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das. ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਬਿਚਲੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਓ ॥੭॥ The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7|| Mahalla 4: ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. Mother Yashoda invited You as Krishna to eat the sweet rice. Gazing upon Your supremely beautiful form, and hearing the musical sounds of Your silver bells tinkling, she was intoxicated with delight. The form om Narsingha: ਸੁਥਰ ਚਿਤ ਭਗਤ ਹਿਤ ਭੇਖੁ ਧਰਿਓ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਹਰਿਓ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਾਰਿ ਜੀਉ ॥ For the sake of the pure-hearted devotee Prahlaad, You took the form of the man-lion, to tear apart and destroy Harnaakhash with your claws. ਜਰਮ ਕਰਮ ਮਛ ਕਛ ਹੁਅ ਬਰਾਹ ਜਮੁਨਾ ਕੈ ਕੂਲਿ ਖੇਲੁ ਖੇਲਿਓ ਜਿਨਿ ਗਿੰਦ ਜੀਉ ॥ He took birth in the Incarnations of the Fish, Tortoise and Wild Boar, and played His part. He played games on the banks of the Jamunaa River. Naam was experienced by the devotees in the past as well, and then with the Gurus it was given to the world in generel: Sawaye 3 Mahalla: The three hundred thirty million angels meditate, attached to the Naam; it is enshrined within the minds of the celibates and ascetics. Bhisham Pitama, the son of the Ganges, meditated on that Naam; his consciousness delighted in the Ambrosial Nectar of the Lord's Feet. and Dwelling upon that Immaculate Naam, the nine Yogic masters, Shiva and Sanak and many others have been emancipated The eighty-four Siddhas, the beings of supernatural spiritual powers, and the Buddhas are imbued with the Naam; it carried Ambreek across the terrifying world-ocean.

Look upun an avatar as a manifestation of the Lords atributes. Some avatars have many of these atributes installed within them, while others have few. Guru Nanak was the avatar with the most attributes installed, whereas others as Krishna Maharaj etc had fewer, but they were still avatars of that one Lord.

What makes Guru Maharaj so beautiful is that he has guided mankind since its very beginning through his various forms of narsinga, Mach, Krishna, ram and finally as the supreme Guravatar, Satguru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj! Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahab Maharaj,, i encourage Sangat to read Bhatta di Sawaye to have a glimpse of the majesty of the Gurus. The sawaye on Guru Nanak and Guru Ram Dass in particular..

The bani of Guru Granth Sahib also say that Maharaj came in previous Yugs as Krishna, Ram, narsingha and other avataras of india, so yes the Gurus did have previous lives.

"Just tell me why do Guru Gobind Singh never used 'Nanak' at end of his writiings and why did Guru Gobind Singh never put his bani in Guru Granth sahib." This is not a valid argument considering that Bhai Mardana also used the pen name of Nanak. Dasam Granth Sahib is Gurbani, and you are insulting our Father by rejecting it by your own narrow standards. Rejecting GUrbani is a serious crime against Maharaj, so brother think it over carefully

Daljeet Singh in his book interprets it as Guru Gobind Singh doing simran inside Mata Gujri's womb, when the Lord spoke to Maharaj and instructed him his mission in this world. notice how it says "He then took birth into Kalyug", meaning he was not there before. in Gurbani you will also read that the infants are doing simran inside their mothers wombs being one with God, before they enter this world. it is a very interesting topic indeed.

Would you say the following vaar has been translated correctly? sathijug sathigur vaasadhaev vaavaa vishanaa naam japaavai|| In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu. Line 1 duAwpr siqgur hrIikRSn hwhw hir hir nwm iDAwvY] dhuaapar sathigur hareekrishan haahaa har har naam dhhiaavai|| The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari. Line 2 qRyqy siqgur rwm jI rwrw rwm jpy suK pwvY] thraethae sathigur raam jee raaraa raam japae sukh paavai|| In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness. Line 3 kiljug nwnk gur goibMd ggw goivMd nwm jpwvY] kalijug naanak gur gobindh gagaa govindh naam japaavai|| In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited. Line 4 cwry jwgy chu jugI pMcwiex ivc jwie smwvY] chaarae jaagae chahu jugee panchaaein vich jaae samaavai|| The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man. Line 5 cwroN ACr iek kr vwihgurU jp mMqR jpwvY] chaaron ashhar eik kar vaahiguroo jap manthr japaavai|| When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered, Line 6 jhW qy aupijAw iPr qhW smwvY ]ôù]ñ] jehaan thae oupajiaa fir thehaan samaavai ||aa||a|| The jiv merges again in its origin.

Bijla Singh ji.. The reason i have not responded in the Panj pyare debate is because im trying to get those granths you mentioned talking about Bhai Nand Lal taking Khanda de pahul being named Bhai Nand Lal Singh etc, suraj parkash granth etc. The Bhatt Vahi is very doubtful as being an authentic source. untill now i have not come across a single scholar that recognices it as valid, due to its modern language and phrases. i'll be back waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

Please read the following beautiful shabad by Guru Arjan Dev on the previous avatars. The Enticer of Hearts, the Lord of wealth, Krishna, the Enemy of ego ...................... He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord. He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute, all are fascinated and enticed. ||9|| read the rest of this amazing shabad on the following link http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...16&id=46444

The father of mankind is a comment by the translator, and is not written in the orignial text.

Did any of the Bhagats recieve Khande di pahul? no, but they were still mukht. Bhai Gurdass mentions muslims having merged with God, did any of these recieve Amrit from the Gurus ? no. the inition of Khande di pahul is a initiation into a warrior elite, which is also why Guru Maharaj added the sword and the sipahi to make them warriors.... the fact that most "Khalsa's" of today are men with fat bellies and have a lousi health condition, that they know nothing about chivalry and how to swing a sword or use a gun shows that the panth have completed forgotten the purpose of creating the khalsa, and have put Khande di amrit initiation down to the level of christian baptism, which is not respected at all by most christians. some rehatnamas written many many years after 1708 seem to indicate that the Charan di pahul from panj pyare were still active during the period after 1708 which might suggest that initiation into the "Sant" aspect of religion was charan di pahul, and initiation into the warrior elite sant sipahi was the Khande di pahul which at the time was only allowed for men. Bhai Nand Lal, Bhai Khaneya, Mata Sahib Devi, Mata Sundari,.. none of them took amrit from Khande, but they have porbably taken Charan di pahul amrit from Maharaj and lived the lives of Sant...

Yes this is what im saying. there are no historical refferences to women taking amrit before the coming of Singh Sabha...

i totally agree namstang. Original gurmat is dying out and becoming a romanticed modern 2007 religion that suits to modern standards. People even have the nerves to say Guru Maharaj did'n have 3 wives and come up with excuses and deny the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh maharaj because it does not fit in with their mindset. The Granths of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh bhinderwaleya should be translated into english and brought to the west so that the true essence of sikhism can be shown to the people. Sikhism is a philosophy that guides man towards succes, and not just a plain set of rules.

Now we are moving into a much deeper discussion. There are hardly any evidences to suggest that women took amrit in 1699 or even the centuries after. The names "Mai Bhago Kaur", Mata Sahib kaur and mata sundri kaur does not exist in any of the old granths written on sikhism. our holy Matas have never signed their hukamnammas with "Kaur" nor is Mai Bhago adressed as kaur in any of our old books, which suggest that women did NOT take amrit back in 1699, nor are there any historical sources mentioning women taking amrit. this has nothing to do with inequality, because we have to look at what the main purpose of the khalsa really was. The purpose of the Khalsa was to function as an army of God, as disciplined knights of Maharaj that were to uproot tyranni and establish peace. taking amrit back then meant that you would have to join the armed forces of Maharaj, and become a living martyr as there was a price on the head of every sikh. taking amrit back then was a serious thing, not as today where they hand out amrit to everyone, because when you took the saroop of Maharaj, then the mughals would hunt you down and kill you.. The men joined the forces, and the women stayed at home and took care of the children and brought them up to become great wariors for the sikh panth. a wise singh once said "A man has to become a man by taking amrit, while women are born women".. equality does NOT mean that everything has to be the same. there were no female Guru's but this does NOT mean that we do not have equality in sikhism or that the holy Gurus were hypocrites. even among Nihangs, Nirmalas and others who have a lineage going back to maharaj(even naamdharis agree on this), then women did not take amrit back then. it only started happening after Singh Sabha.. i apologise for my english, as im not living in a english speaking country.

i am not even in favour of a Khalistan. The Gurus never created a state of their own, so why should we.... Sikhism is a dharm above national borders and nationalism.

if Sikhs today can not even run a Gurdwara without fighting like dogs, then how are we going to run a state? The Panth is now divided more than ever before.

Is kesh for women not only the hair on their scalp, whereas for men it is also their beard and mustache?

does that make her an awfull person ? lolz.. khalistan haha

anyone? its urgent the video "Legacy of Guru Nanak" is awesome..its just a shame that it is only a 17 minutes video..

thank you very much.i looked at the video, and it is only a 17 minutes long video, and i need one for atleast 45 minutes. but the video is fantastic without doubt.. keep em coming

thank you very much for your reply and offer brother, but i am mostly interested in video documentarys that present Sikhism as a religion

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fathe. i am looking for video documentarys on Sikhism that last atleast 45 minutes. it has to be educational videos that presents sikhism in english etc, and not related to 1984 as the movie is going to be shown to present Sikhism to people that do not know the religion. please do share everything you have Fateh

thank you for your reply :umm: