Ranjeet01

Or could be that they are dirt poor and they would do anything for food in their belly and roof on their heads, even convert.

I think we should not dwell too much on this. What we should focus on is what lessons should be learnt.

Please don't be fooled to think there is no caste system in Christian communities within India.

I recall a few years ago that there were cases of "low caste" Christians not being allowed into "higher caste" Christian Churches.I believe they were "Kyshatria" Christians.

How is that Ravidassia feel empowered enough to separate but Hindus of lower caste are unable to separate from the Brahminical yoke without converting to either the two main abrahamic branches (i.e. Christianity or Islam)

A lot of these missionaries and dawa'ists too focused on the bean counting , on building on numbers. But there is no spiritual growth.

We as Sikhs need to keep fighting for Punjabi and keep it alive, the Hindu Punjabis are an emasculated bunch who will not take leadership for Punjabi, they have been conquered for over a thousand years and are followers rather than leaders. We need to lead and fight for Punjab, when eventually the wind blows in our favour, the Hindu Punjabis will follow suit if it presents an opportunity. If green aliens from Mars invaded India and imposed their Alien language, a large proportion Hindu Punjabis would abandon Hindi for Martian. We need to understand the mindset first.

Keep Fighting for Punjabi and do not let the government get away with anything . No matter how corrupt the system is we need to keep fighting,

What a lot of Pakistanis have is a particular type of Machismo, it can be called "Pakismo"

The Arabs, Persian and Turks are the muslim master races, the ones from the subcontinent are not. There are two types of muslims on the continent, the Ashrafs and the Aljafs. The Ashrafs claim Arab, Persian, Central Asian descent who consider themselves as tall and fairwhere as the Aljafs are considered the low caste, small dark rice eating types.

I have been to Dubai, and it is very interesting to watch the various communities of muslims interact with each other.The muslims from the subcontinent are treated like dirt and can only think of one solution for them, come back to the fold and leave Islam.

My father used to tell me one thing," before you look at the girl, look the mother". That tells you something. This is an old Punjabi saying. For all a Middle aged Sikh males faults, there are certain things he will not be able to relate to with his daughter, particularly a teenage girl, so I imagine a leaves a lot of that kind of stuff to the mother.

The question, is where are the mothers in all this. What kind of female role model example are they setting?

Slough

They are Sikh schools opening up all over the country. This is GrassRoots Sikhi.

"However, these are not the acts of religious people....... No religious text supports or condones child sexual
grooming, and anybody who commits such acts cannot be said to be a member of a religious faith."

Common PR tactic, they have to say something like that even though we all know otherwise. I imagine they don't want to be sued for making an "offensive" statement even if it is true, people are scared of being sued. Media generally is scared to called "a spade a spade" because of the libel cases.

However, the biggest enemy we Sikhs have are these pappu Sikhs that seem to be kind on the left wing, and are quite camp and feminine. Why can't there be some masculine Sikh Males on the media. The spokesperson of CIty Sikhs has been on BBC shows (The Big Question) with the most oddest posh accent I have ever heard

Another example is Sunny Hundal. If you follow his twitter feeds, he said that the SAS were irresponsible for taking things into their own hands and that they are not trained social workers.

They most certainly do not represent the vast majority of Sikhs, but we need to marginalise these types. We need more media savvy, pro-Sikh Sikhs. Unfortunately the media is dominated by the limpwristed, camp types where homosexuality is the norm and these are types of SIkhs they like to promote such as the BBC, Guardian,Channel 4. Ideally as SIkhs we should not be representing any right wing or left wing views, we should be representing the Sikh view.

If there are any young Sikhs who is a good writer and has a blog and wants to be a journalist, go for it. We must not allow the pappus dominate the narrative, they tend to do more damage than good.

Hi Chatanga,

Nick Kandola of the SSET is who has played a big part in setting up this school.

He appeared on the Sikh Channel and mentioned that he has advised and helped our Sangat in other parts of the country to set up Schools. If you have 200 families in your area then you can set one up quite easily.

Esingh

We cannot answer about what is going on in the Pakistani community (if these cases are happening with Pakistani girls), as much as it pains me to say it, we have to prioritise and focus on our own panth first ( I know it sounds selfish), but this is a must.

If you read in the twitter feeds, a lot of Pakistanis are in denial about the situation, with all the usual excuses such as their religion doesn't teach these things, where is the evidence, why are all muslims tarred with the same brush, it happens in other communities too. They try to deflect the situation as much as possible. It is a tactic known as "tu qoque" which means essentially the "open fly, torn shirt" argument as well as all the taqqiyah we can expect from them.

I am sure that grooming happens in a lot of comunities, but I see this as a virus and this is a particular Pakistani/Islamic strain of this virus. The islamic texts give them special permission and sanctions this kind of behaviour (whether you to disagree or not). Muslim people are people in the end of the day but the ideology is not good, just like German people are people but the Nazi Ideology is not good.

We as Sikhs have to do what we need to do to raise awareness within our own quam, if the Pakistani community are having problems also then they will have to pull their finger out. If anything, they would be in a better position to clean out the pimping/Prostitution/drug dealing/mini cabbing/halal fried chicken/mosque/local authority nexus (these things are all interconnected).

But they won't do that because it would mean that they have to confront what really is the problem (even the Good Muslims/Pakistanis) and we know what that is. Just like during WW2 a good German person could be a Nazi party member but disagree with all the horrific things that happened but are too scared to do anything because they would be killed, we can make the analogy.

The Miah fellow is a Bangladeshi.

First girls, then boys. What's next farm yard animals? The RSPCA will need to take action

My observation is that generally in Canada, the community seems to be following extremes, either they are extremely westernised and give themselves Western names such as "Gary" and "Paul" or they are completely opposite in terms of being extremely traditional,even more so than Punjab. The very traditional side needs to be careful not to become like the Quebecers where they speak the French of 400 years ago and even people in France laugh at them. The extremely western side should remember that the Italian-Canadians and Chinese-Canadians who have lived in Canada for several generations still have pride and retain their language. I remember coming back on a flight from Vancouver and I met a chinese couple, both of them born and raised in Canada and spoke chinese with one another but told me how they found it hard to relate to recent Chinese immigrants to Canada. I

Eventually, the two sides must be meet in the middle and strike a balance.

Jains are also a mercantile community, my observation is that the communities that are involved in mercantile activities seem to be more anti-sikh than those that are non mercantile communities.

We need to understand why these communities feel so threatened by Sikhs?

"I wasnt refering to any grooming, but your implication that it seems ok for a sikh girl to marry a hindu, but definitely not a muslim."

Because technically the identity is not directly threatened, the girl would have to convert to the Muslim, not necessary with a Hindu. A Sikh girl who marries a Muslim will be ostracised by her family, but marrying a Hindu is not seen as threatening which means the future grandchildren will still interact with their nanke, even go to gurdwara.

I have personally known of a couple of Sikh women that have married white men who have converted to Sikhi, they keep kesh and I see them at my local gurdwara. The question is if Sikh women were involved with men from outside the community and brought them into the fold, would that make a difference?

We could adopt what the Jewish community do which is that if a Jewish woman marries a non-Jewish man and they have children, then those children will follow the faith of the mother.

What about the mother in this instance? I think that our Sikh girls need good strong female role models. I think that that traditional father would find it harder to relate to teenage girl and would leave a lot of things to the mother.

What we can learn from all this if you put too much control, then girl will go astray, if you give the girl too much freedom again they will go astray. Maybe the answer is to be somewhere in the middle.

Even though there are problems, we must not tarr all Sikh girls, there are plenty of decent Sikhs girls out there too.

I want to say well done to SAS for highlighting this issue.

"They had that Ibrahim Mogra id.iot who claimed there is no proof of Muslim grooming as well as that ugly cow from some government commission. If she's in charge of saving Britain's children from groomers then the children have no chance with this ultra-PC cow sprouting her PC nonsense. "

Regarding Ibrahim Moga, it is a typical muslim tactic to bring the evidence aspect. It is his job to do taqiyya as per the religion. One must remember that the these types of institutions are infiltrated by people who hold a left-wing view point and the Islamics are hand in hand with the left-wingers.