Mahakaal96

7 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

The West had it's own Devti, whether that be Norse mythology, Greek, Celtic, or Roman mythology, they certainly had their choice of Devti, the only difference is they decided on Christianity, (a Middle-Eastern religion), Arabia had their own sets of Devti and Mecca used to be Devti headquarters, the Kabba used to be a moon god temple, but they chose Islam. The Americas had their own Devti, some of which are still worshiped in the middle of Native American reservations, though for the most part they chose another religion. Same way with India, the only real difference is that the logical people, (Sikhs), didn't care about the average Subcontinentals souls enough to free them from worshipping Devti. (And Buddha followers decided these Devti worshippers were too unintelligent, so they spread outward instead of staying in India). But don't worry about some Kalki Avatar, the story is mostly metaphor to teach us something.

The Kabba contains a Shiv lingham....

4 minutes ago, Mahakaal96 said:

Before you decide to comment I think it's best to reflect on whether you have the capacity & knowledge to answer what you are about to answer. When those with less then adequate knowledge attempt to answer on a subject they know very little about then no one benefits, instead the questioner is given false information & the answerer entrenches falsehood.

Kalki Avtar will be the 24th Avtar of Vishnu. Kalki will be a devta & not a devti as written above.  

Kalki will appear towards the end of Kalyug... the duration of Kalyug is 432,000 years... we have only gone through about 5,000 yrs or so. 

Kalki Avtar will appear in a place called Sambhal in UP.

The story of Kalki Avtar is NOT a methaphor.... in Sri Dasam Granth Mahraj has written about all previous 23 avatars of Vishnu, there are many references to these avtars & their existence in Gurbani & other dharmic granths. Therefore it is absolute nonsense to dismiss the 24th Avtar of Vishnu as a methaphor when the 23 previous ones weren't.

As for the argument about avtars in East vs West... it's nonsensical & childish really.  Guru Nanak travelled to the west during their udasis & Sri Guru Granth Sahib resides all over the west... who says god doesn't appear in the west? 

My advice to OP, forget this site & its members.. you won't find anything of much substance on here... read Gurbani yourself & get the answers from the best possible source available 

15 hours ago, chatanga said:

That is a very interesting article. Thanks for sharing it. Can you please tell us the source.

I also hope you have no qualms about me c and p ing it in sikhawareness forum.

I was told this by sants/Singhs in Dal Panth. Giani Sher Singh has supposedly done katha on this as well but I've not heard it. If you count all the Charittars in charitropakyan then the total will come to 404 but at the end of the Bani mahraj says 405 charittars 

Has she been found or still missing? 

Really hope our community wakes up soon & starts to educate our children.

2 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Masands were burnt in the Guru's presence.  Moni's fighting on alcohol is not in comparison to amritdharis standing up for Gurmat.  

It's not always just masands/committee... been cases where the fighting started over disagreements on maryada, Saints etc. Been quite a lot of cases where Granthis have been caught consuming alcohol in their rooms at the gurdwara. 

14 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

careful the 3rd wave are listening ....hehehe someone has to sit to the left in the 'inactive' phase of the lavaan  besides both are sitting at the feet of the Guru ji no need to make a controversy folks 

I disagree... every second of the Anand Karaj ceremony is of equal importance & there is no active or inactive phase. The female sitting on the left & male on the right is not a coincidence.... there's significance behind that just as there is significance behind the reason why the male leads the lavan and the woman holds onto the pallan & follows.

On 04/05/2017 at 1:47 PM, jkvlondon said:

we always keep the superior person on whom we rely on to our right side e.g. english saying right hand man . That is why during Anand Karaj Guru ji is on both parties right hand side at equal distance .

This is also the reason why during Anand Karaj the female comes & sits to the left of the male so that he is to her right.

There's a few reasons for why Nihangs do parkarma from right to left. 

Nihangs were stationed all over anandpur Sahib & had their main quarters at Shaheedi Bagh which is a couple of minutes walk from Kes Garh Sahib. When sangat in their thousands used to come to do darshan of Guru Sahib then mahraj used to be seated at Kes Garh Sahib. Mahraj gave a hukam that the Nihang fauj did not have to que up with the rest of the sangat & could come straight to mahraj, do namaskar & parkarma & then take leave as & when they wanted.

someone above mentioned that another reason is because of having our shaster facing mahraj as our shaster want to do namaskar of Mahraj as well but this is only half the reason. Mahraj loved shaster & seeing his ladli fauj carrying shaster pleased him a great deal. So it was a combination of Shaster doing darshan of Mahraj but also because of Mahraj wanting to do darshan of our shaster.

Theres a sakhi told in the Dal Panth about a thief in the sangat who would pick people's pockets.... he was eventually caught by 1 of the Singhs doing parkarma right to left where as everyone else including the thief were doing in left to right.

39 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

I am not there anymore ! I mean I work for same company but am at client side since 2 months now and dare I say the people here at client side are much more respectful or atleast talk to me like a normal human being , which shows that not everything is wrong with me. People in my office were jst d!cks ! 

Your being a d!ck by hijacking someone else's thread. The OP has reached out & asked for genuine help & advice. Start another thread or p!ss off to P.M system. Seen some of the cry baby threads you started because you are not man enough to deal with bullies at work (despite allegedly being a 'Singh'), no one hijacked your threads so show some decorum & respect to others.

To OP my advice is to start listening to Gurbani... Chaupai Sahib would be a good place to start taking your current situation into consideration. 

Then the Singhs comprehended the character of the Khans. Turks hordes were ravishing Indian women. If the Sikhs took revenge [by raping in retaliation] it should be recognised as good. Why does the Guru’s instruction (note: ਗੁਰ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ implies a written code of conduct i.e. a rahitnama) prevent them [from doing this]? (18)

Listen to what the Guru said on this matter:

I have recognised this [Khalsa] path as an exalted one. Without base degradation assimilated within.That is why I prevent you from committing [such] sins. (19) That path which adopts Mohhamad, is one of demons.The ways of those lowly ones are not good.Observe how they commit outrages at every opportunity. (20)

Suraj Prakash Granth

20 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

absolutism leads people away from the core message.

It's a shame you fell to this exact same thing when reading the original post. When Guru Gobind Singh Ji warned us not to trust the word of a Muslim, mahraj made that statement in the hope that most of his sikhs would have enough budhi (intellect) to know which Muslims that statement would apply to & not be of low intellect where they start applying that warning to Bhagats. 

 How many sikhs do you think have come across a genuine Muslim bhagat in their lives & wondered if that warning should apply to them?? Mahraj knew exactly the type of Muslims we would be dealing with hence the warning. 

Anyone reading Bhagat Farid Ji's Bani can clearly see that taqqiya is not being deployed even remotely.... Bhagat jis Bani is inline with gurmat and therefore beyond any doubt or suspicion.

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

The way most of you allow that lurking YoYo to talk to you is contemptible. He's obviously bristling with hostility towards Sikhs, and he comes on here throwing his weight around, whilst some of you are, "Brother, brother, brother." What the hell is wrong with you people? 

Spot on. In general sikhs are a very honest, non discriminating, trustworthy & friendly people who treat everyone equal regardless of religion etc... however the rest of humanity is not like that & we need to smarten up.

Muslims are the worst because it is quite simply a part of their belief that everyone is not equal.. and that those who are not Muslim (kafirs) can be lied to, exploited, raped & even killed without the risk of any retribution from god.... there's a reason why Guru Gobind Singh Ji exposed their lieing & deceitful ways at Anandpur Sahib when the Muslim swore oaths on the Koran only to then break them at the first available oppurtunity. Guru Sahib did that to open our eyes & to make us aware.

I urge all my brothers & sisters on this site to be more aware, cautious & extremely careful when having any kind of dealing with any Muslim. It's a testament to the greatness of our Guru that we as a community are very tolerant & respectful towards all... but our Guru also taught us to be budhi maan (of discerning intellect) & raj neetic (politically aware).

To all my sikh brothers & sisters on this site... there is no point in talking to a Muslim & there is certainly no point in ever trusting anything that comes out of their mouths! 

They consider us as Kafirs (non believers) and therefore are permitted under the laws of Islam to practice what is known as 'TAQIYYA' when having any dealing with us.

I urge you all to research & learn about TAQIYYA for yourself but have added some info below.

Also remember that Guru Gobind Singh Ji explicitly said the word of a Muslim is never to be trusted. Remember how the lowly dogs of Aurugzebs army swore oaths on the Quran but then broke them at the first chance at Anandpur & how Guru Sahib exposed their treacherous ways. It is in their blood to lie & deceive.

TAQIYYA

1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

This is in Bachittar Natak and none of those words or phrases say the war account is/was a summary.  Let me know if you are having an hard time finding a dictionary with the definition of summary in it.  Remember big boy pants and not hiding in your baba chola. 

As I've already said Chandi Charitar & Chandi Di Vaar are a part of Bachittar Natak.

when something is said in brief it is akin to a summary.

Anyone who has read Chandi di  Vaar & Chandi Charitar knows Chandi Di Vaar is a shorter & summarised account of Chandi Charitar. 

Anyone who has read Suraj Prakash knows that there are elements which are extensions of certain parts of Bachittar Natak, I.e mahraj history at hemkunt & the war from Chandi Banis

When you are taught arths of Gurbani you are taught by the word so to speak, however, each Bani, shabad & pangti has an unthankia which gives the history & other Points of significance attached to them. If you are doing a word for word translation then you stick to arths only. If you are discussing the Bani as a whole or in general as was the case here, then you take arths & unthanika into consideration.

More then happy to do veechar, charcha & even argue with those who have gyan & genuine desire to establish the truth.... not willing to engage with those who have none of the above as their laksh... no more replies to you

1 hour ago, Akalifauj said:

Give me the exact line Guru Sahib says the war account is a summary. 

Chandi charitar & Chandi Di vaar  are actually part of Bachittar Natak... this is how sampardas teach it (and what I was taught/told) although they are commonly perceived as seperate banis.

When reading Chandi Charitar & Chandi Di Vaar it becomes quite obvious that Chandi Di Vaar is a shorter, summaried version of Chandi charitar although this is not explicitly said in that instance by mahraj.

In Bachittar Natak mahraj says a few times about keeping everything brief, not just the war accounts, so as to avoid the Granth becoming to voluminous.

some examples;

1. Page 114 Line 1

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਥਾ ਸੰਛੇਪ ਤੇ ਕਹੋ ਸੁ ਹਿਤੁ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥

Parithama Katha Saanchhepa Te Kaho Su Hitu Chitu Laaei ॥

प्रिथम कथा संछेप ते कहो सु हितु चितु लाइ ॥

With the concentration of my mind, I narrate in brief my earlier story.

1. Page 115 Line 2

ਬਰੁ ਬਿਥਾਰ ਕਹਾ ਲਗੈ ਬਖਾਨੀਅਤ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਡਰੁ ਮਾਨੀਅਤ ॥

Baru Bithaar Kahaa Lagai Bakhaaneeata ॥ Garaantha Badhana Te At(i) Daru Maaneeata ॥

बरु बिथार कहा लगै बखानीअत ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अति डरु मानीअत ॥

If everything is described in detail, it is feared that the description will become voluminous.

Following on from this is the reason why Sri Suraj Prakash is considered the extension to details about Rishi Dusht Daman & extention to Mata Durgas battles etc

17 hours ago, Kira said:

Bro there's no mention of Rakatbheej, the account that Baba Ji is reciting is the one I heard too. The Rakatbheej addition is unique only to Suraj Prakash Granth,There's always the possibility that this addition was done by the people aiding Kavi Santokh Singh Ji. The 2 incidents are separate. Rakatbheej died in Tretayug, this battle occurred in Satyug. There's a 1.7 million year gap between the incidents. 

 

I'll do some more research from good old google and talk to some of my contacts in Taksal and various learned Gursikhs. Until then I'll end things here. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm right. Ki Pata.

Ok I think I've worked it out & why I thought it was Satyug.... the battle between Sri Sarbloh Avtar & Brijnath took place in Satyug... that's why Baba Santa Singh mentions Satyug as that katha is about the history of Sri Sarbloh Granth. Baba Ji also mentions that rishi's had the ability to go into samadhi for thousands of years & that in Satyug Rishi Dusht Daman was in deep samadhi.... but during that samadhi saw everything that was going on....  in that samadhi you have something called tre-Kal darshi.. which means the ability to see the past, present & future. what rishi Dusht Daman saw became the contents of Sri Sarbloh Granth & some other Dasam Bani. If you go to Sri Sarbloh Bunga in Hazoor Sahib they say that mahraj wrote Sri Sarbloh Granth as Dusht Daman then gave that Granth to the 9 naths  to look after until they come again as Guru mahraj in Kalyug. Baba Ji also says that Sri Dasam Granth had been completely compiled but was lost when Mahraj crossed Sarsa Nadi during the storm & evacuation of Anandpur Sahib.

 Mata did fight rakatbheej in Treta yug but mahraj had already been in tappasya since Satyug.

20 minutes ago, Kira said:

Bro all I did was ask you to provide Gurbani references or even Purana References of Durga fleeing from Rakatbhee, 

Kavi Santokh Singh Ji was a Sikh of the highest calibre and not someone I could even hope to reach. If I offended you or Him in any shape or form I'm deeply sorry.

There's no need to apologise.. doing veechar is one of the accepted forms of gaining knowledge.

Watch this video, Baba Santa Singh Ji mentions the parsang briefly but the detailed account can be found in rut 3 adayai 35 of Sri Suraj Prakash Granth

I'll say it again that Mata fleeing from the battlefield is not to be considered as a slight against Mata.... anyone who has killed 9 crore of the same demon (plus the others like chund, mund, dhumarnain etc) & they re-manifest themselves would become exhausted.

23 minutes ago, Kira said:

and again you have no proof of that. These are your speculations, nothing more. There's far too many variations circling, so unless you have a proper source from Gurbani saying that Durga fled then please put it up. 

Bro I am thinking outside of the box, but I am also thinking inside the confines of Gurbani. Your source is a medieval text written during the time Devi Worship was rife within the Sikh Panth. There were Idols of various Hindu Dieties in Harmandhir Sahib at the time. The story could be one of many that were said to simply explain her link to Khalsa. Guru Gobind Singh Ji handpicked what to put in the Dasam Granth. Had the story been that she fled and sought help elsewhere he wouldn't have included it, You're trying to stretch it that Guru Gobind Singh Ji changed it just because there was an aspect in it that seems contradictory, yet everything in Dasam Granth is historical fact. SO once again, had She fled Guru Gobind Singh Ji would have put it down, or better yet. Picked another Purana to translate and explain.

 

So once again. Please provide Gurbani evidence for this, otherwise its nothing more than tell-tales. I could apply your type of logic to just about everything. 

If you want to discredit the work of Kavi Santokh Singh & Sri Suraj Prakash then that is your choice.

According to your logic we should remove some of our 5 kakars because there's no evidence from Gurbani...

I'm happy to stick with the sampardai (nihangs, taksal, nirmalas etc) take on the subject.

1 hour ago, Kira said:

he's being sarcastic I think the "/s" means sarcasm.

 

You can''t hope to know what Guru Sahib was thinking. He never once lied in any of his banis, He flat out said that Durga and Kali killed Rakatbheej in Chandi Charitar, I've pasted Gurbani but it seems the concept of a woman doing something remarkable seems almost alien to you. Chandi Charitar isn't a bani with the shortened version, Chandi Di Vaar is. Chandi Charitar is a more extensive version of it and it cclearly states Durga killed Ratakbheej alone, and it also explains how she managed it. Not a single mention of any other assistance, so tell me why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji (the master scribe) decide to alter a tale just cuz.

For chandi Di vaar yes. For Chandi Charitar, no. The Bani extensively depicts the battle, compare the battle of Ratakbheej in Chandi Di Vaar to Chandi Charitar and there's start differences in how much is described. Let me ask, have you ever even read Chandi Charitar? 

You keep going back to Chandi Di Vaar. I'm discussing Chandi Charitar here. Even if Durga had fled from the battle and sought help from a Rishi (who later turns out to be Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji) that would only showcase the might of Guru Nanak's Jyot in an even more splendid light. What a better way to show the world that even a Devi hailed as a Supreme Warrior needed help from the mighty Khalsa, That would incite anyone's spirit, that God himself gave this woman new rejuvenated Strength to face an unimaginable evil, I'm not sure about you but I'd be pretty inspired, knowing that even if I was failing God would give me new power to quench the evil. These are all your theories, none of them have any evidence in Gurbani.

 

 Considering the time-frame we have to take into account the massive surge in people worshipping Devi during that time. There were even paintings of Maharaja Ranjit Singh worshipping Devi done in 1863. Even during the publication of this Granth Idols were being installed in Harmandir Sahib by the corrupt British and Hindu Mahants who wished to muddle Sikh literature. This story would have been one of many floating around about the links between Devi and the Khalsa. 

56 minutes ago, Kira said:

While Chandi Di Vaar is an extremely potent Bir Ras Bani it's also a bani to help with another type of war. The internal war that we all face.  Notice how the names of the demons all allude to things Guru Sahib warns us about. For example. Mahikasur (the first demon Durga slays) is also a figurative of sexual desire. His name can be roughly alluded to that, Sumbh (Pride)  and Nisumbh (anger) are both other emotions we're meant to destroy. Now this is where the name of Rakatbheej is also changed to Sronatbheej, The latter translates to gossip or all hearing. However this isn't unique to this bani, they are the same demon since Guru Sahib in Chandi Charitar also changes the name back and forth.

The Gods (representing good people or goodness) at the start of the Ballad are filled with ego, so to destroy that ego God sent these demons (the vices). The Vices humbled the person, destroyed everything they built in heaven and took over. Reduced to nothing they sought the refuge of Durga (think of her a manifestation of power), She then goes off and faces the demons. She destroys them the same way we are to destroy the vices. Then along comes Sronatbheej, He's extremely powerful and also different than the other vices because he multiples. This vice (of gossip) isn't anything we can destroy in ourselves, because like his clones its an external foe. Durga in a fit of rage and anger envisions Kalika (she represents knowledge here), She bursts out of her forehead and starts to face the demons.

In the battle Durga has the forces of the Devtas (good people) as well but she also brings her Yognis (some say these are witches but from what I was taught they are also over 50 goddesses who are handmaidens of Durga, basically her vanguard). They start drinking the blood along with Kali and Durga starts the normal process of destroying the demons with her blades. This is an analogy on how we should be dealing with gossip, rather than letting it grow and mature into something we cant contend, destroy them at their roots. 

The demons flee after Durga and Kalika overwhelm them and then along comes the next sin in the form of Nisumbh (anger).  He gets obliterated and then comes Sumbh (Pride), he also faces his demise at Durga's hands. There's a nice poetic linakage to how the demons die too. 

First to fall is Mahikasur (sexual desire). For humans this is the root of most if not all problems (Kaam in some instances can also mean desires), Maskeen Ji did an amazing Katha on this very topic. After his demise things were calm and collect for a while but 2 more demons rose. Anger and Pride. Anger and Pride go hand in hand, if you hurt someones pride then the chances are they will come for you in a fit of rage, we sadly see it in Punjabi Culture a-lot. Anger and Pride had 4 sub-demons. Dhoomar Lochan, Chand and Mund, Sronatbheej.

Dhoomar Lochan (cloudy vision) is the first to fall. Let's ponder why. To en-better ourselves we need to be able to see clearly, if we see things half way its extremely dangerous. For example, fog is extremely dangerous, remove the fog and vola things are so much better. 

Chand and Mund are the next to come. They represent Greed and Attachment, Both go hand in hand. If we get greedy, we'll naturally get attached to the items we lust after. Now that Dhoomar Lochan is dead and we can see clearly we face the vice of Greed and desires. Durga obliterates them too.

Now comes SronatBheej. ohoho he's the big bad daddy in the whole thing. All the other demons are internal foes, while this bugger is an external and an internal one. See above how he was killed.

Now that we've dealt with sexual desire (important to add that Mahikasur was lusting after Durga as she was incredibly beautiful), Cloudy thought, Greed and attachment. Now comes the biggest sins of anger and pride. I don't need to really tell anyone on here as Guru Granth Sahib Ji tells us just how destructive these vices are. They are the root of almost all evil deeds. Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Sidh Gost even wrote "ਹਉ ਹਉ ਮੈ ਮੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਖੋਵੈ ॥ ਦੂਜਾ ਮੇਟੈ ਏਕੋ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ "

So they eventually fall to Durga's power. The end of the bani Guru Gobind Singh Ji writes "ਦੁਰਗਾ ਪਾਠ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਸਭੇ ਪਉੜੀਆਂ ॥ ਫੇਰ ਨ ਜੂਨੀ ਆਇਆ ਜਿਨ ਇਹ ਗਾਇਆ ॥੫੫॥ " 

If we observe the bani in a metaphorical sense AS well as a physical sense that line also shines. Any person who obliterates these vices the same way Durga destroys these demons, no way will they be reborn. As they become immaculate and a form of the Timeless Lord himself.

The bani is also an amazing Journey for new beginners (the writing and understanding is so simple), a guide on how to enbetter ourselves internally as well waging war against Tyrants.

 

I am familiar with Chandi Charitar.... it is a more detailed account of the battles mentioned in Chandi Di Vaar. The account in Sri Suraj Prakash is supposedly an extension of this Bani.... at least that's what I've been told & that's how it is taught in sampardas.

Similarly the accounts about Rishi Samund & Rishi Dusht Daman are an extension of Bachiter Natak.

By writing that Mata fled the battlefield to seek assistance from Parmeshvar is not to be regarded as a slight against Mata but rather exhaults the supreme power of parmeshvar..... however.... according to the Khalsa maryada it is forbidden for a warrior to take 1 step back on the battlefield let alone flee the battlefield.... even if it is to pray to parmeshvar. (At Sarsa nadi mahraj recited Sri Asa Di vaar on the battlefield but did not flee... Baba Ajit Singh, Baba Udai Singh & the rest of the fauj carried on fighting but no one left the battlefield) In Sri Sarbloh Granth mahraj praises the demon Brijnath when he refuses to back down from war against parmeshvar himself.... try to think outside of the box here.... there's a reason Sant Jarnail Singh Ji said in katha that the Bani of Sri Dasam Granth would not be understood by cowards.