jkvlondon

If anyone truly knew about Sikhi, the arguments posted were awful and not with much understanding.

usually as a kid I would ask them what prayer Jesus taught them in his lifetime and they will always say the lord's prayer , next I say OK so what were his exact words ? OUR Father who art in Heaven' OK but why did he pray to God if you say Christians should pray 'through' Jesus, surely then he would have started with 'MY Father ... and he would have said forgive THEM their trepasses rather than OUR trespasses ... Truth is Jesus never once in his life asked people to take his name to pray to ...I think you need to think about what he actually did and said before dying before worrying about me I understand who He was Praying to maybe you should too.... usually didn't get a comeback after that , too busy thinking I guess.

Muslims same 'you don't believe in the one true God! ....really brother who do you think I pray to if I pray to the formless timeless One who preceding everything?' Err Ok But you don't believe in the prophet 'I believe in the One who created everyone and thing that is enough for me to know, have a good nimaz brother'

You say they're ugly, I say they're absolutely effin beautiful!

How are the buildings made from the "wrong" materials?

Chandigarh was never intended to be punjabi or adjust to the landscape/ demographics of punjab. Le corbusier was to create a new city of a completely new and different school of thought. A city that would need to be adapted to, a city that changes what you consider to be the norm, a city that would change the way you live. Clearly he was very, very successful. He was and still remains one of theeee most influential architects of all time.

I respect your opinion but you've made it quite clear that you cant even comprehend any other thought. My "friend", I think you should get out more.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder? anyways the price for Chandigarh is to annex punjab state further ? too high even if the buildings were made with diamonds and gold ... let's move for Amritsar as capital and tell Centre to stick that longowal-rajiv accord where the sun don't shine

I am so glad that the village fought to get back the chola sahib from SGPC, They definitely did the right thing in not trusting them .

Thats nothing. There are some Universities in Canada that have specific degree courses in how to convert Sikhs. These are proper university courses and the detail they go into is frightening. Look at the modules they cover....They even tell you how to bide your time and first pretend that you love 'their' Gurus and only mention Jesus for the first time when you've got their trust.

http://www.info-sikh.com/PageEvan4.html

Veer ji ,

let them learn about us no problem ...we should learn too and teach our families.

i remember a christian/jehova knocked on my door, tryna convince me of how great their religion/prophet was, i let them babble on for about 5mins non-stop, till i stated 1 thing..."my guru sat on a hot plate(guru arjan) and accepted martyrdom, my other guru gave his head (tegh bahadur) for another community in peaceful manner meditating, where as ur prophet cried his eyes out on the cross...", she immediately stopped, kissed her teeth and walked off, LOOOL.... and then i said

jevoh's witness get given a textbook to study on all other faiths and how approach i know i got shown it by a jehovah's witness guy , he was in training and said something about sikhi so i just asked him who/where did he get that from ....needless to say i put him straight ... he never looked at me the same way again or said anything about sikhi again. ah uni days ...well spent

Okay Maybe I was presuming everyone could afford to move. I dont think we as Sikhs need to think ourselves as some kind of superman though. Where we can singly single handedly taken on the world. At the Moment Sikhs cant fix their own problems such as caste, conversions, drink alchol abuse ect. Never mind pretending to be some kind of righteous people who can turn around crime ridden areas with the flick of our sword. Its time Sikhs did what was best for Sikhism. Ie instead of this notion that we are the protectors of the world. We need to focus on ourselves first.

Im not saying leave Areas where there is a high Sikh Population. Im refering to those areas where 90% of the Population is Muslim. I see so many complaining that their area is over run by criminals or Muslims. But deep down maybe these people probably want to live in a muslim area as they have become use to the muslim way of life.

Ive got relatives in Hackney and I think people just don't want to move out of there as they have lived there so long. It feels like home. Hackney is a dangerous area btw so much drug dealing and crime. Even Black people want to leave there and its mainly a black area.

It does not take a superman or superwoman to do the right thing in your own home/family/neighbourhood just someone who wants to live in the truth. We grew up in an area with very few asian let alone sikh families and that didn't stop us from follow Guru ji and trying to speak up for ourselves or others . Doing Right is never easy ...that why the path is so narrow and difficult but with Waheguru at your side why not???

Chandigarh is a complete joke of a city, a poor man's milton keynes...a city with no history and pure fakery. To think that Chandigarh was built to give panjab a "new capital", since we lost the glorious, historic n sohna Lahore, is just a joke of a replacement. Y didnt they jus make Lahore's sisters city, Amritsar the capital, or even the biggest cities, Jalandhar or Ludhiana or heck even the most powerful Princely state, of Patiala? It wudda made more sense. Instead a gora was allowed to design a rubbish city, where even a sector13 wasnt made, coz 13 is an unlucky number for christians, yet Guru Nanak cudnt stop saying 13 (tera)!

Agreed Amritsar should be our capital it already has an international airport, scope for growth, is in the heart of Punjab dharmically, literally and emotionally. But of course that would mean Centre having to recognising it as more than just any old city ... hmm ...also since we want it to be recognised as a Holy city this is easier to get if the city becomes state capital too.

They make movies, sing dharmik songs but they dont use the name singh why ?

They just dont have any credibility, they sing like they are proud to be from sikh families / background they make movies and animation but when you see their name but no Singh it makes no sense ?

simple they are not strong enough to support or deserve the name on their head ....I am glad they do enough BS things to discredit Sikhi totally they should stay well away

Maybe this a blessing in disguise as we can eliminate the current trend of outside catering being brought in and distributed in langar e.g. mithai, shop-bought sweets. It will eliminate soya based foods as they are unhealthy anyway this would be better for sangat. Set menus and approachs to langar makes for better accountability, less wastage, simpler langar as in the true sense of langar not as is currently experienced where there is an element of making it more like restaurant with choices of pickles and relishes.

Jkv, what i meant is that it was very hard for me during my youth time to go from patka to turban phase. I was the only turban within 150 mile radius.

I asked around and there was no patka trend back in my parents time and that is why turban is safe in that generation. Some of my patka wearing friends never successfully made the transition - some became monay and others wear patka, net with shaven beard.

Btw, i am uncle now

so you also have experienced what I was saying about the hardship of switching if you leave it too late ...also my observation that people find it easier to become patit at that stage than dastar waley, this is a till that is just as bad as the one introduced by akal takht by making dastars for women optional , my Mum said that it was the one place guaranteed to maintain ancient original rehit even if others wavered. That jathedar who proposed it was Gurmukh SIngh by name ironically and it was supposed to be a temporary relaxation I think it's time to bring it back and enforced . I would love to insist also that our bibian do not tie jooda at the back and tie patka style dastar as this destroys the niarapan of our dastar .

SO many of our bibian are mistaken for muslim women because of this new 'style' and I have heard lots of lame excuses why they chose to do so and the funny thing is now the muslim women are tying their hijabs as turbans, because they love our look (they have no history of dastar styles on women) .

The Jooda is supposed to be the shingar along with kanga of the dasam duar as Bhai Sahib Jarnail SIngh ji (Leamington Spa) explained when questioned about where the jooda should be tied . We are supposed to stand out this keeps us on track and aware of our words and actions, when we shirk the bana's true form we are shirking our true responsibilities to ourselves and others. Sorry but that is how I feel; Bana is a blessing not a curse and somehow all these little introductions have created mental weaknesses in us and the wrong attitude to bana.

You do have to take it into context, Patkas weren't popular back then. They became popular when the Indian School system made the Parkas part of their uniform.

I think you will find that the parents were more pro dastar than now.

Frankly it is only since the whole disastrous RUMAL on JOODEY of the 1970s that these patkey became more popular...funny thing is my bros hated the rumal thingy with a vengence and breathed a sigh of relief when they had amrit in 79 as it meant wearing a decent dastar.

I am bit liberal in every form but i really want to ban the patka because i personally know how much i hated and damn hard for me to tie turban (17yrs old). Patka trend is grossly wrong thing that ever happened to our kaum.

so Beta do you tie a dastar at all now or are you still doing the patka thing?

Penji ,

waheguru's will is what will happens always, nothing more nothing less. Just because someone sees something in a dream it is not always going to happen . Like veer ji suggested Namo japo, bania pardo, shukrana di ardas karo for everything you have been blessed with , there are many who never have mothers there for them. Waheguru is there for you always and knows your innermost feelings , don't be afraid.

Shouldn't Sikhs just move out of crime ridden areas? I mean why are Sikhs living in areas that are bad in the first place?

I lived in a rough area when I was growing up ie full of crime and now I moved out into a better area. With Sikhs being one of the wealthiest communities we can afford to move into better areas.

Why are you so foolish not everyone is minting it ...some don't have choices. I grew up in Hackney and yes it was hard during the seventies, better in the eighties but now with the guns and drugs I am glad my brother managed to move his family out , but my Mum still lives there and my sister and her family they have no choice . Anyway point is Sikhs' duty is to end evil in his corner of the universe even if it starts from under his roof, then slowly spreads to the 'hood. Evil only prospers when good men stay silent. If everyone used your mentality then everyone will leave Punjab and settle abroad then Punjab will become Hindu by majority then we would lose our rights there. One can stay and stand our ground in the face of trouble as my folks did in our childhood or run to the easy life 'dying a thousand deaths' every time we hear trouble is growing closer in the news. Lets agree to stand and hold position for the good folks in the universe

HE ruined his own life. SHE ruined another family's life. By what strange logic do you come to the conclusion that she's OK and he is not ?

I didn't say that, but you failed to show BOTH are guilty of destroying these innocent lives...if he never strayed then maybe he would have learnt what a blessing he already had from Waheguru

Jadoo toona exists but in front of Naam it has no effect

Namo Mantr Mantrang Namo Jantr Jantrang

Naam is supreme mantar of all mantars. Naam is the supreme Magical amulet of all amulets

Namo Ist Iste Namo Tantr Tantrang

Naam is the supreme worshippable thing Naam is the supreme Magical Charm of charms

from Jaap Sahib

Personal experience : I came to know there were some people of this mindset trying to attack my family via these means ...just by doing nitnem and sukhmani sahib putting full faith in Waheguru's protection this thwarted their plans on multiple occasions, in fact that person got so frustrated that they demanded that I tell them exactly what my prayer routine was and to supply them with it in written form with translation ...of course I just smiled and walked away from that.

Jis ka sahib dada hoe tis nu mar na sake koe... believe it , understand it and live it

Good luck trying to get sympathy from anyone JudgeNot.

She may well get off on a technicality but as far as the vast majority of people are concerned she is as guilty as hell.

Even if she didn't kill that poor woman (and she probably did) she ruined her life anyway by blatantly sleeping with that woman's husband. Then this angel of yours was so besharm, not content with ruining this poor woman's life by ruining her marriage behind her back, she even went to the woman's house to rub it in more. So besharm, so shameless, so un-caring, she even stood on a ledge to sneak in.

If any vile woman is capable of this crime it is her.

So, whether or not she stuck the knife in her is immaterial. She killed this woman's life long before a knife entered the equation.

And the husband was not party to this ? he is the bigger culprit because he couldn't honour his vows to his God and wife.

I just want to say people that there is nothing wrong with encouraging patka among very young Sikhs. Lets look at this before and after back to sikhi pictures regarding the turban, why not have a separate back to sikhi picture gallery of sikh children before and after regarding the patka, it will encourage young Sikhs to chose the path to become full sikhs

From experience of bringing up four gursikh children, aunt to four others and cousins to mo-ney and gursikhs alike my observation is that like most things there is an optimum point at which patkey are necessary and effective if one continues beyond that point the kid will choose not to take up dastaar without a struggle due to the inherent laziness built in. If we try to encourage casual dastar tying at home it is easier to convince a child, my daughter loves the look of a dumalla and will insist on me tying that on her it is not a set thing yet but she feels pretty comfortable with wearing one when she grows up. My eldest is seventeen and keeps insisting on tying a patka despite the abundance of resources at home to tie any size any colour dastaar...this is what I meant . The twins are tying dastaar to school themselves they still are loose but the main thing is they are doing it for themselves and are trying to tweak their method to improve the final look.

In my eyes pressure should not be brought to bear on the child too much, but the dastars should be available, ask for fave colours, different material weights/stretch levels, so what may appeal to the child can be tried (turban material is cheap, even I used to let them try my old chunnis as dastars). Aim for a switch to dastaar as soon as possible to avoid resistance to making the special effort of tying and retying a long dastaar .

My other observation is that those kids who want to keep their kesh are very appearence conscious so if you can teach them to tie a beautiful dastar this will give them solid confidence in their new appearence much more so than wearing a patka,often racists pick more on the appearence of a patka than a dastar, maybe because they seem more vulnerable( happened to all my boys). Also I have seen it seems to be easier in the mind of the patka wearer to abandon patka totally and then take the next bad step. ( this was seen in those basketball payers also in people I know)

The ardas is there that my eldest goes to full dastar mode as he really looks the part, Waheguru sare Gursikh nu bharosa daan deho

puratan kachere were never bellow knees,

puratan singhs even used to tie knot on kachere above knee so that no insect or anything can cross

big huge kachere are not usable in battle and hinder in movement ,

Veer ji

this is not helping the seekers here, if you can provide closeup or instructions on construction that would better

I personally do believe in sport parkas, to prevent sweat when doing intense physical activities, just my view on it.

what is a sport patka? one of those NIKE do-rags or actually a smaller dastar material piece? do you tie your jooda at the back as well so you can fit it on? Anyway if you are doing a sport you will sweat so it is mot much of a difference if you wear a sport patka or a smaller dastar ...why not stick to rehitvan appearence?

well not all Sikh youth can especially those who never wore either patka or dastar

not all youth can do many things ...does that mean we relax requirements until it is no longer considered a requirement to learn?

then why learn Gurmukhi?

then why learn to follow rehit?

then why wear kakkars

then why learn bania?

then why have Amrit?

then why be called a sikh, just call us long haired fools...

My Daughter is six at age five she asked to wear a dastar to school to try it, when I tried to persuade her to tie a patka she looked me in the eye and said no Mum I want a real dastar/keski , from the mouth of babes ...if they can see what is the truth why can't we?

I say it depends on the parents and the child, it's not going to make you better if you wear a full Dastar or Patka.

But rehit is to wear dastar ...full stop . A patka is a simple jooda cover extended both NOT DASTARS.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki FAteh,

NO!!! this is legitimising the very bad til that is occuring in India and elsewhere where our youth are buying off the shelf designer name do-rags and claiming these as legimate dastars ... I was in a plane to India five weeks back and I'm not kidding you I saw only two Dastars out of a contingent of men numbering at least thirty ion the plane the rest were wearing these patkey with baseball caps jammed on top . I was the only dastar wearing female on the plane and I was getting the evil eye from these jokers. I am not kidding it wasn't kids of under 16 but grown men of thirty, forty and older

There is a place for patkey and that is on toddlers to age 10 MAX after that age there is no reason to wear , I used to wear full dastar to school for physical education classes too, patkey were created for MUMs to tie on real kids incapable of doing their own dastars, not teens or grown men. If you are amritdhari the patka cannot be seen to satisfy rehitnama of Guru Gobind Singh ji concerning dastars.

This guy is amazing. Following him and his work since last year. He does not want any donation and that is true. One man Army.

I love his nimrata ...just completing my work of translating Guru Ji to Kanard and Hindi and giving to my fellow people of Karnataka will make me feel like I did something with my life . Dhan GUruji Dhan Guru ke piare