jkvlondon
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I hope they also preserve Gurudwara 'Guru ka bagh' Patna also ...
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Bhein ji,
You are right about bringing the Change.
But majority of Sikhs & Punjabis still have an Arranged Marriage irrespective of Nationality.
Which usually means Joint family household where daughter-in-laws have very little say.
just because you respect the old ways by being married a certain way ..it doesn't mean you can't teach your own children better Sikh thoughts/behaviour, to encourage the children in keeping their kesh, in keeping their inborn compassion intact ...to respect females the sikh way..
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SSA veer ji,
I 100% agree with you for being one with akalpurakh. Very well written.
But my question was something more worldly, My concern was about the conversions, which are happening in this world. I see ppl pursuing, forcing, convincing others about there faith and rules.
Which is not a good sign.
In case of sikhism, i am told that earlier, muslims, hindus or anyone from any faith was allowed to do kirtan. but nowadays, things have changed. Even, women were not allowed till recent times, to do kirtan in Darbar Sahib.
My concerns are totally about worldly facts. But that is what we have in hand, and these help us transform to the higher state.
.......
missionary mindsets abound in the world , and they have fallen for their own egotistical numbers game...I will go out and 'make' so many christians, muslims, hindus etc etc but this is far from the game of love that prema bhagti should be . I would venture that they serve the God of their own making not Akal Purakh ...
The path of love is open to all and the traveller has to have samm drisht, we are all the same jot and all have the same centuries old longing
In our panth, the dharamshaley have been hijacked by the mega-egos ...the solution I feel is to turn to Guru ji fully and make 'ghar ghar andar dharamsal , hoe kirtan sada visoah' just as Guru Nanak Dev ji intended... every family is the starting point , every heart the gurudwara...just start your journey and encircle your family and friends with Waheguru's bani and love ...that is how we got so many sikhs up till now ...now let's aim for quality of action and thought in our small circles, this will create the groundswell that will sweep through the communities we live in , to find out about Sikhi
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https://www.facebook.com/terapanthvasse
Please read about dirty politics and our media - no wonder Panjab is lost
sorry I can't copy and past the Tera Panth Vasse post from Facebook can anyone please help the Sangat must read this now
What I found most disgusting was the opposition parties threatened to harm the reputations and honour of the unmarried females in TPV if they stood in I would put them in the stocks and have bibian and their bajuroog beat them black and blue.
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Bhein ji,
I agree but let us do a Reality Check.
How many of the Sikh/Punjabi females get to live their own life.
Whether it's education, freedom to choose a career & life partner.
Is it right to live in denial ?
well that's what we are here to do change the world for the better, not sit and gripe ...I'm equipping both my sons and daughter with right attitude to life and when I can I try to help change people's mind around me and not just our dharam ... what if we made it our duty to change our family's attitudes wouldn't that go a long way to changing loads of lives and they would pass on the message?
it's either Sikh or Punjabi not both you can't have two masters....
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It is but still a valid point.
I don't know what kind of equality are we talking about
Physical
Social
Economical
Legal
Religious
and lastly Spiritual.
As per Gurbani -
ਮੇਰੈ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਸਾਚੈ ਇਕੁ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥
Maerai Prabh Saachai Eik Khael Rachaaeiaa ||
मेरै प्रभि साचै इकु खेलु रचाइआ ॥
My True Lord God has staged a play.
2 ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੫੬ ਪੰ. ੧੦
Raag Maaroo Guru Amar Das Page:1056 Line: 10
ਕੋਇ ਨ ਕਿਸ ਹੀ ਜੇਹਾ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥
Koe N Kis Hee Jaehaa Oupaaeiaa ||
कोइ न किस ही जेहा उपाइआ ॥
He has created no one like anyone else.
3 ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੫੬ ਪੰ. ੧੧
Raag Maaroo Guru Amar Das Page:1056 Line: 11
ਆਪੇ ਫਰਕੁ ਕਰੇ ਵੇਖਿ ਵਿਗਸੈ ਸਭਿ ਰਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਮਾਹਾ ਹੇ ॥੧॥
Aapae Farak Karae Vaekh Vigasai Sabh Ras Dhaehee Maahaa Hae ||1||
आपे फरकु करे वेखि विगसै सभि रस देही माहा हे ॥१॥
He made them different, and he gazes upon them with pleasure; he placed all the flavors in the body. ||1||
4 ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੫੬ ਪੰ. ੧੧
Raag Maaroo Guru Amar Das Page:1056 Line: 11
Source - http://searchgurbani.com/scriptures/ggs_shabad/3770/line/3
you are tallking about gender equality in SIkhi , so it is in all spheres which lead to attainment on the path ...so yes we cannot become barriers to the mental, social, spiritual aspirations of our sisters daughters and mothers and also we cannot stop them from training their physical selves to defend as Khalsa should or prevent them having physical freedom to come and go as the menfolk do otherwise what is the difference between them and the womenfolk of other faiths ?
Guru Nanak Dev ji freed them from the centuries old chains of oppression and slavery to male egos ... we are all Akal Purakh's aspiring brides no one is male so as a Sikh we should keep the truth in mind not just the appearence of the Deh/Maya.
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Mehtab Singh Jee - Love your views.
I have worked in Karnataka, Maharashtara, Punjab.
Apne lokaan nun maan bahut milda hai, par saadi philosophy hai pehlaan dooje nun neevan dikhaun di ...
Apni sikh philosphy? oh I'm sure it's the Punjabi machismo bringing in the 'rub it in ' attitude kind of like the 'proud to be jat' attitude...all of it provided by the english raj ...
A true sikh takes the lessons of the past and applies to hone his/her personality to be daler but full of nimrata as Waheguru di kirpa nal sabh kuch hunda
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admin this already posted under another title by the same Veer ji
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is religious conversion valid in sikhism.
As per the sikh philosophy and the baani registered and recorded by our Gurus. Is it valid to have conversions in sikhism.
http://seavent.blogs...-than-thou.html
I wonder many a times? Is it right to convert one person into another. Wasn't the person a good human being earlier, why to convert him. Why cant i be a Christian and a muslim at the same time.
I need not succumb to the rules defined by any compartmentalized institutions known as high temporal religious seats.The only religious rule applicable for me is, not to hurt anyone by my actions, remarks and intents, knowingly and unknowingly. For me that is my religion. And i will not change my name to please you. Request you to help me develop myself spiritually and not just change me physically.
We can learn from each other rather than just control each other.
I like something about sikhism, not becoz, i am a sikh (i am trying to be actually), but i learn something from sikh culture, i.e we have teachings of many gr8 ppl compiled together irrespective of there religion, caste and creed. that is the way it should be. We must be open to learn all the time. on the contrary we are bothered about the code of conduct always, which in other terms, may be called politics. I think sikhs themselves need to learn from this thought itself.
you seem to be confused ...when you become one with Akal Purakh you cease to have a 'religion' as you become one with the source of all things so those Bhagats and Bhatts in Guru ji are all in that state , so their voice is of Akal Purakh but for our feeble minds we 'think' they are from this faith or that, they have simply transcended all labels.
What you call conversion is not clear ...if you mean someone getting to Sikhi and loving it and becoming a gursikh of their own will then there is no 'conversion' just an awakening... however if you are talking about persuading explicitly someone to change then no.. Sikhi doesn't work like that , it respects the individual's free will to choose. You cannot force someone to love something, they have to come to that state through an internal change. Even our Anand Karaj reflects that, the two participants have to rise and walk to Guru ji to initiate the ceremony.
you cannot be two faiths at once as they likely to clash in outlook and neither would accept a partial adherence, even the examples you gave are from the Abrahamic faiths there is not much common ground. One cannot have a foot in one boat and the other in another boat and expect to safely cross this treacherous world ocean a choice has to be made. Even the atheists make a choice they take no boat at all, and drown in maya jaal.
If you are looking for justifications for not following Guru ji and taking amrit I cannot supply you with those as in my eyes it's a win win situation
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Look ,
we should not take stimulants ...why do you need to take energy drinks ...is it to get through stressful exams /work or just to fit in with your mates, or God Forbid you like the taste?
if it is stress...get more hours sleep before midnight, eat plenty of fruit and raw/lightly steamed greens and you'll feel that much more with it
if it is to fit in ...no soda is going to make you a superstar in the social circles it's your personality read, take up hobbies, go interesting places become a renaissance man/woman
if you like the taste ...seriously you need to eat more mineral rich foods and drink pure water
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It is foolish to argue on Gender Equality.
Those who want Equality should first demand it from their parents.
Give equal education & assets to your daughters.
Moreso check whether your role models shared inheritance with their sisters if not then
ਅਵਰ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਕਰੈ ॥
Avar Oupadhaesai Aap N Karai ||
अवर उपदेसै आपि न करै ॥
One who does not practice what he preaches to others,
5 ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੬੯ ਪੰ. ੮
Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev Page:269 Line: 8
ਆਵਤ ਜਾਵਤ ਜਨਮੈ ਮਰੈ ॥
Aavath Jaavath Janamai Marai ||
आवत जावत जनमै मरै ॥
Shall come and go in reincarnation, through birth and death.
6 ਗਉੜੀ ਸੁਖਮਨੀ (ਮ: ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੨੬੯ ਪੰ. ੮
Raag Gauri Sukhmanee Guru Arjan Dev Page:269 Line: 8
Lastly can a woman go topless in the open & take a dip in Sarovar.
JOKERS :-)
Firstly give your daughter BETTER education and SIKHI than her brothers ...since she will be the caretaker of future Singh and Singhnian if you want the panth to flourish. Look at Guru's wives and daughters because of them our panth is beautiful inside and out. Guru Amar Das ji was inspired by the Sikhi of a woman , On the wish of another mahaan female SIkhi has the suneayri shahadat in Guru Ram Das ji's household.
You last point is crass , but ultimately if all were jiwan mukht then she could ...but unfortunately the dirty minds and eyes of kalyugi lok are predominant, remember Mata Sita's time women's fashion was bare-chested although revisionist history may claim otherwise .
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Bhenji jkvlondon ji its sad how you had to defend yourself alone
Now I realise I was BLESSED to have to go through those days and times it was the making of me as a Gursikh, I had to make the choice 'do I crumple and become a sheep or fight and become a lioness ?' and it helped set my mind to be strong enough not to be scared of challenges to my position by people in authority e.g. teachers and police. I can see what my kids need in counsel having been through it and what it feels like to feel unsure of oneself , just as I know what it is to eat meat/fish and not . It's good to see both sides because that makes you a better human .
Guru ji didn't say we were supposed to wrap ourselves in a bubble , we are supposed to be 'out there' in the midst of the maelstrom of humanity showing them the clear cut path to happiness.
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SGPC are the idiots , no one cares for them outside punjab lol
if you read the news articles of 2006 you will see SGPC was the one who opposed it .
Sant jarnail singh ji talks about puratan maryada ,
i dont disrespect Bhai Randhir Singh ji
but jarnail singh ji followed old maryada not some man made thing
every sant wherether nanaksar or other bhramgiani's always said it was singhs to be panj pyaare
also, all of the orignal panj pyaare were , bhagats in previous life's they took human form again , which was all in devine order of akal purakh to make panj pyaare
you can read it in "khalsa moon mantar"
to respect that we have only 5 singhs as panj pyaare
besides mata sahib kaur ji nor any other famous bibi or bhramgiani opposed this .
why is the new generation too fanatic about it !!
answer is simple
the new generation is idiotic , everyone reads a few books or articles and they think they know everything
everyone talks on the base of tat gian
me too,, but heed to puratan maryada and what patshah ji says
Ok,
So practical issue if say, shaheedi parivars band together to do Akhand paath does this mean that 5 amritdhari widowed bibis who are most definately Khalsa cannot transport Maharaj ji but have to call 5 literal Singhs instead to do that job ? Or even a mixed gender group of KHALSA cannot qualify as Maharaj's guard of honour?
It seems strange that would be so when Dasmesh Pita ji didn't make such distinctions...Mata Bhag Kaur ji
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The biggest disgrace is he has Singh in his name while doing all of this.
The biggest disgrace is he betrayed his own mother and sisters,with what face can he say he is a human let alone anything else ... plenty of non-sikhs also with Singh surname ...
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What on earth has happened 2 our panjab? Panjab has always been 1 of the safest places in india when in regards 2 rapes/crime etc. Im not sayin that there never was any crime/rape before, but there was never an epidemic of this stuff, of the like we r seeing nowadays. I dont wanna sound like im passin the buck here, but crime and criminality has rapidly shot up since the mass migration of biharis n other outsiders into panjab, since 2001-ish time. But also by the looks of the names in many reports, including the 1 above, its pretty clear its apnay sikhs who now seem to think this sort of stuff is ok, digraceful man. Those days of the defencless seeing a sardar/kaur on a bus n feeling safe ARE LONG GONE...LONG LONG GONE.
1.where there are drugs and alcohol freeflowing through the streets the crime rate will go up guaranteed
2. alcohol and drugs make one lose inhibitions and self-control ... so the base desires come forth
3. if you notice these rapes are always gang-rapes ...I propose it's pack mentality here and peer pressure . where as before men as a majority would frown on such thoughts and behaviour now they don't care what I want I take....just like in the west
4. Wider access to internet means more porn access and also bollywood movies seem to feed this low view of women with scantily clad females and raunchy dance numbers, and the now obligatory group of men attacking single female....used to be one guy chasing one girl during the eighties and nineties
5. The media, govt, film and music industry and society as a whole is anti-female and vehemently against independent thought of Females ,,,God Forbid feminism
6. People are not teaching or talking to their girls about self-defence , about having open channel of discussion if something happens, the girls are doubly punished instead by being hurriedly wedded off while still traumatised
7. most people are too trusting , the chances are of being raped by someone you know are much much higher than a stranger , no girl should ignore misdeeds' by family or friends.
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I thought about this issue, if she feels that she is been sexually molested..go to the cops, both parties will be scrutinized or quizzed based on the evidence presented. Since she bought it up and victimized, she shouldn't have any problem following law and legal means going to cops...if she does not she loses crediblity or merit of her case. This might be case of entrapement- read charitar as others have already suggested.
I am not doubting gyani or kathavachik cannot slip anyone can slip before bhramgyan, maya is very powerful even hardcore tapasavi big big rishi muniya slipped infront of maya and learned from their mistakes, self reflection and moved on. Anything and everything is possible. Thats why its highly imperative for seekers/sikh spiritual aspirants/students to follow and abide in gurmat teaching/message/point/hear it expereince gurbani yourself than taking word for it not doing anything about it, just blind faith in messenger/pointer - egoic mindset will use that as cop out. Fault also lies in our punjabi mindset where people put parcharikhs, kathavachik or gyanis/mahapursh on pedestal and do personality worship(whilst satkar is need fine line difference between satkar and exaggerated personality worship) use all kind of cop out methods avoid transformation themselves...our mentality needs to change, we need to be perceive more what's being said - message, point and follow the message than attaching our selves with pointers/messenger then get disappointed where one should have taken messenger out of equation to begin with.Only rare ones - cares about tat essence of gurmat teaching ,attached themselves with message than messenger.
another thing ,
I would not be hanging around for TWO years nearly three to put it to the people ...I would have got into it STRAIGHT AWAY ... too phony by half ... But I agree if a girl/boy is being harassed, mad to feel uncomfortable by any man or woman WE ALL need to listen and pay attention, and investigate.
The measuring stick is Gurmat rehit and Gurbani if the person teaching/preaching seems to divert from there then take that pinch of salt and study for yourself.
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many lives could have been saved ....
hukam vich rehna sikh de param asul aa... benti ta kar sakde ha per Akal Purakh di dehn aa je kar kuch lok bach geh
Sant Kartar Singh Bhindrawale saw what was to come at Harmandir Sahib ji but all he did was Matha tekia te kehe si 'tere kia mitta lage , har nam padarath Nanak mangeh' .
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Veero ,
From the female perspective, if such a thing happened I would make it my duty to confront and set people straight about such a thing however, I would also shun the person totally not go and forth giving gifts. To me this stinks of malicious intention to malign those dharmic kathvachaks/gianis who ARE inspiring the youth in Punjab and abroad and creating an interest in knowledge of Dasam Bani. They have been doing this 'sexual pervert' accusations at so many lately ... I would look at his reaction to get the full story ..he is calm and is clear about his intentions, if she was really a threat there would be a scrabble to 'cover up' and agitation leaking from his face and voice - nothing.
I have been feeling uneasy with 'sikh voice ' channel for a while and came to realise that they are sided with panthic dokhis ...
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**NOTE**
This thread is 8 years old..........................!
still a regular and current issue unfortunately guys .... Guru di betian nu kamzor banah rehe han din par din ...Singh and Kaurs need to step up against this together
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thats what my mate thought.
Guess what happened, when it all came out inthe open, giani got "chucked out" - no he's chilling in southall now
And the girl? Rumour upon RUMOUR are going around the whole city about how they were caught "doign stuff in gurdwara computer room" who how she "flirted and met up" with him.
Its pathetic. I started to hate everyone in my area. I hate them all.
Only my and her direct family know abt the truth - everyone else beleive the rumours. The girl's life is in shatters. For what? For Being too scared to tell her parents that the giani is blackmailing/perving/touching her, thats what.
The giani gets away with it, and is chilling in a different city...
That's what I hate about the PUNJABI attitude to women ...what happened to the SIKH attitude? Who was there to protect her honour ? even from these nasty kaier lok who said nothing to the sangat about the guy but plenty wrong to 'shame' the girl. Bollywood de brainwashed lok ...apni dheean nu galat ilzam lah reho jadd koe admi ohna de izzat nu hath paunda ? fitt jaun da ...you eat up all that Hindi BS that girls have no value and should go die somewhere if they are abused or molested you deserve to be beaten alongside those who prey on the girls because you are enabling those men ....just like every other Indian/Pakistani fool who does the same. I THOUGHT SIKHI WAS ABOVE ALL THAT LOW TREATMENT OF WOMEN.
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Veer ji
do you know if his books are available online, both punjabi and english ?
thanks for the information
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So, is it possible that Bhagat Ravidass was and remained a Hindu?
That his limited inclusion is an indication of his limited enlightenment?
Dastardhari or otherwise?
since when was wearing a dastaar limited to sikhs ...at the time many different religions wore turbans...true ,styles might have been different
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This is good, hopefully Punjabi's who have lost their Sikhi way, will get inspired to come back to Sikhi. The more non-Punjabis that become Sikhs and follow Guru Ji's path the better.
The more PEOPLE in general from all backgrounds that become Gursikhs the better for the world as a whole , The world needs the Khalsa right now ...
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Do you have any sources to prove your claim that Alexander the Great was killed by a punjabi? I have never heard that one before it is said he died from natural causes....
They are not sure what killed him but he took a long time to die about ten days , some possible causes: malaria, poison, mystery illness not killed in battle at all.
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Going To A Party?!
in GUPT FORUM
Posted
Maybe do something to commerate his big birthday just the two of you , I'm sure if you explain to him about your feelings he would understand ...