JagsawSingh

If it wasn't cartoons, there would be some other reason for the attacks.

I have seen pictures of Ganesh (elephant god) and Buddha with Jesus in compromising positions but there has not been any outrage from Christians, Buddhists or Hindus.

The two brothers who were behind this attack were known to the security and intelligence agencies.

The thing about the west is that nothing is really sacred, everything is under scrutiny and they will take the p***. Islam has been on the offensive in the west for the past few decades, the more it places itself into the public eye the more they will be scrutinised and satirised in the west.

But I just told you...and I said it very clearly....how Christianity and Hinduism is not only OK with physically depicting their 'gods' and prophets, they actively encourage it.

Sikhism....and Islam....on the other hand, most certainly does NOT.

Its about respect. Respet for one another. They respect our beliefs and we respect theirs.

So let me ask you and jkvlondon this question : Are you honestly saying you'd support our Guru ji being depicted in the same disgusting way ?

If not, why are you being a hypocrite and applauding the hurt the Muslim feels in place of you ?

Remember what I said in the 'Visiting Paris' thread 2 months ago ?

I said :

The thing about Paris is that they are getting away with an unofficial apartheid system. The city is largely black and Arab but Paris has a system whereby they deliberately house (hide) all the blacks and Arabs in purpose made suburbs (ghettos) and let them get on with life on state handouts without the chance of ever finding a job etc.

The city has the feel of New York in the 1970's and London in the 1980's...a very edgy feel, a feeling that racial tension is in the air and could explode at any time.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/76106-visiting-paris-advise/

no ...they have zero authority to say who is Sikh or not let alone convert ...nobody has explained just how this conversion is happening ...as far as i know only guru Granth and Guru Panth has the authority to make patit pavan ....so please enlighten me what is their nethodology ...and who is giving authority ....or is it a case of eyewashing yet again....

Its either hot or cold with you jkvlondon. Nothing in between. Half of your posts demonstrate extreme intelligence and the other half normally demonstrate that you're half asleep not paying attention.

Your last message definately demonstrates that you have not digested anything I have written - particularly when I stated that the christian menace itself is a seperate problem to what the crux of this thread is about - or paid attention to anything the disgusting RSS have been doing these last 3 weeks in Punjab.

Get some sleep. Write something with a clear head later.

You really think you are a genius for 'discovering' that RSS is not doing it for the Sikh Qaum but themselves?

Your reading abilities appear quite juvenile my friend. Let me construct my sentences in simpler format: RSS kill 1000's of Christians in Orissa....kill thousands of Muslims and have utter contempt for Sikhs. They are then, inhuman all fronts.

So, its not about the obvious fact that they're doing it for themselves. Its about how, by doing things like this...mixed in with all the bad stuff they do...they can manipulate immature minds into praising them and seeing them in a good light (see yourself for further details)

I have also noticed a lot of people praising the RSS or saying they are not involved in many issues impacting Sikhs when clearly they are.

I'm glad you've noticed it ISingh. You're obviously one of the awake ones. 99.9% of the posts on this thread show that most of the others have fallen misguidingly right into the RSS trap.

1. You are the one being naive, Jagsaw Singh.

2. Putin came only a few years back but RSS has been warning Sikhs since 15 years atleast (thats the oldest news articles I found about RSS warning Sikhs to be vigilant of Christian proselytism) so all that theory about RSS following Putins policy is wrong.

3. No one in this thread denied RSS is one of our enemies. But please note, 'one of'. Some Sikhs are so anti Hindu that they ignore most other enemies, often blaming Muslim attacks on us as 'RSS conspiracies' (Saharanpur riots, Hyderabad riots, etc). We need a change in that. Nor the kattar Hindu nor the kattar Muslim or Christian are our friends and all are harming Punjab in their own way.

4. If the RSS is 'helping' the Sikhs, it is to get Sikhs at their side and confused as you say BUT who says we will be confused? What about being foresighted for once and benefit from the situation instead of being naive and having a 'ohhh RSS is bringing Sikhs back but we won't take them or else we'll become Hindus' type of mentality.

5. The mainstream is much more aware of the RSS attacks but hardly anyone knows about the nefarious, deceiving Christian missionary activity which has converted a few lakh Sikhs in the past 15 years.

.....and the confusion begins.

As I said before: "make a series of contradictory statements....do a series of contradictory things" and the opponent no longer knows if you're a friend or a foe.

In the space of a week, launch one national campaign where you state Sikhs are Hindus and then another campaign where you give the impression you are there to expand Sikhism. Leave your opponent in a permanent state of confusion thus rendering him useless and powerless as an opponent. For an example of that see this very thread. 46 posts, yet only 1 of the 46 points out what the RSS has cleverly done. 44 of the remaining 45 are praising the RSS and the 1 remaining one is critcising the lone Sikh that pointed out the tactics of the right wing Hindus.

Bravo RSS :respect: . Love them or loathe them, we have to admit they've played us pretty good.

:ohno: So, I'm reading through every single post in this thread and I've realised something....we, collectivey, are an incredibly uneducated community. We don't stand a chance. The right wing Hindu groups that are the catalyst for this thread must be reading all the posts here and laughing their heads off that they're facing such an easy opponent.

Nothing to do with the 'christian menace' as such....Thats another issue. The fact is we're not even clever enough to know what is being done to us right in front of our eyes.

Collectively,we're not well-read and intellectual enough to understand how Putin's new idea of politics by confusion is being embraced by organisations all over the world, incuding our own UK govt. In Russia, the way Putin did it was by actively supporting, both in principle and financially, a cross-section of groups totally at odds with each other such as neo-nazi skinheads AND anti-racism groups. The idea is that you make a series of contradictory statements...do a series of contradictory things thus ensuring your enemy is in such a constant state of confusion that he no longer knows who his enemies are, thus rendering him ineffective as an opponent. This is exactly what the right wing Hindu groups in Punjab, such as the RSS have done over the last couple of weeks. They've been doing things on behalf of Sikhs...and for the benefit of Sikhism....such as converting chrstians back to Sikhism not because they are nice people. Its because they are probably 2 or 3 steps intellectually ahead of us.

Let me eplain, this new 'Putin' way is spreading like wildfire across the globe. Governments and institutions (like the Hindu RSS) are embracing it fully. The beauty of it, from their point of view, is that it leaves those on the receiving end of it (as this thread demonstrates : us) so confused it (we) no longer can the good guys be distinguished from the bad guys. To find the beauty in it you have to look into the world of art, specificaly Putin's main political advisor Vladislav Surkov. Surkov came to Putin from the world of art, and he used deconstruction art principles in politics. In other worlds, he created unreal realities or real unrealities ....where good can be bad and bad can be good...so people won't even see or notice the bad things you do because you ensure their minds are permanently focussed on the good. So, no matter what you do, you will always be seen as good.

Read books my brothers and sisters. Get yourselves well-read. Follow current affairs. Make yourselves highly educated otherwise....as every single post in this thread clearly demonstrates......your enemies are going to easily run rings around you and make you impotent.

jatt akal da ghat

You gotta love the posters on this site. A Kamboj starts a thread about caste and, as usual, someone here sees and grabs yet another opportunity to blame the jatts !! :stupidme:

Anything else you'd like to blame jatts for ?

The great fire of Chicago perhaps ? or the fall in crude oil prices ?

Are you from such a location?

What 'such locations' are you even on about ?

The worse thing we can do is leave them unable to cope with the world gone to hell

The world has not 'gone to hell'.

The previous generation (my dad) used to share bottles of sharab at the outside langar hall of the old Havelock Road Gurdwara in Southall every Sunday afternoon. Now, that new rebuilt Gurdwara on the same site is a world famous bastion of Sikhi. WE HAVE GONE AWAY FROM HELL.

The previous generation (my mum) were too uneducated to even know the difference between Sikhism and Hinduism and so had Hindu practices in their everyday Sikhi. We don't see that no more. WE HAVE GONE AWAY FROM HELL.

In the second generation of UK born 'Sikhs' (me) , hardly any of us were taught anything about Sikhi...hardly any of us were taught kirtan, gatka etc. Now, this 3rd generation (my children) is putting us to shame. WE HAVE GONE AWAY FROM HELL.

Please sis, please don't ever pass that negativity of yours on to your kids. If anything, teach them of the importance of chardi kala. It is human nature to think things today are worse than they used to be. The fact is they seldom are when one looks at it with clear eyes. Always remember that many here on this website look at your example of how how your adult life took shape and lament "oh how things have gone to hell". Just as you, and not them, know that it was in actual fact 'heaven' we have to understand how one man's heaven is another man's hell. When we bear that in mind the only thing left for us to do is try and follow in the footsteps of Guru ji. One of who rose above these limitations and insecurities of man.

The fact is, life is truly wonderful. Life is better today than it has ever been before. Truly wonderful.

Water table finishing ? Gas supplies running out ? Our governments making constant wars ? Yes, all are true but these are not problems that can't be solved by our children if they embrace education, fight for truth and reach positions of power.

We have gone from hell into heaven with this current generation of very young Sikhs.

I have always been sikh and it was my Sikhi that intrigued my husband , and so he came onto our way of thinking about the universe ... our kids are amritdhari but although he has kept his kes, goes Gurdwara , only eats/lives as an amritdhari would in our home ,he has not got to the point of sanchar readiness himself and I am waiting for him although I do my duties as per normal in Sikhi.

In the meantime , have to do the right thing and get the kids battle-ready they are going to see a very anarchaic time in their lives when the fossil fuels peter out, food shortages due to toxicity of soils and of course worldwide Caliphate attempts. Bani and warrior training...

I can see you're on the right path now....that much is clear...But how did it come about in the first place for you, a Sikh girl, to fall in love with and marry, a Brazilian fella ?

Are you an example of the numerous threads we have here about 'sikh girls running off with black and white men' ?

I ask because if you are you are a wonderful example of what great things might possibly result from such a relationship with regards to Sikhi.

Reagrding your kids......don't scare them. I'm guessing yours are round about the same age as mine and I think its more important we fill their heads with the wonderful nature of Waheguru's creation...i.e how wonderful life, the trees (even xmas trees), the grass, the bees etc are rather than negativity. Teach them how the definition of a Gursikh is to be good, caring human beings and the fight for justice and truth will naturally follow.

This is all confusing for me. Muslims who are against ISIS say they don't represent the Ummah(Muslims) and say they are misrepresenting Islam in their horrific law structure but ISIS does have Quran/Islamic Scholars there who are directly using the Quran and Sunnahs and Hadiths for their government.Then you have Islamic Scholars all over the world that condemn ISIS and send them a letter what they are practicing is wrong. Who's right? Who's wrong?

Its not just Islam. in that regard. Its the problem with all the Abrahamic religions. With their faiths, as long as the believer has nothing but simple faith in the love of god these people are the world's finest example of good, decent human beings. But with all 3 of those semetic faiths, once the believer starts going deep into their scriptures he or she becomes a complete and utter nutter. For example, thats why the Christian that goes too deep into the christian scriptures ends up knocking on your door as an evangelist threatening you with eternal damnation in the fires of a place called hell where you will be skinned alive for all eternity....because you are a non-christian. Thats why the Jew that bury's himself in his scriptures starts to talk about sexual positions because there are large parts of the Jewish scriptures that go into vivid, semi-pornographic detail about acceptable and unacceptable sexual gratification positions and quirks, and what a woman should do to satisfy her man.

We, as Sikhs, will never be able to understand these people. Its not part of our psyche to because when we, as Sikhs, go deeper into our religious texts we find nothing but true love.

We are just too different to them. Its no use trying to understand them.

remind me of the teacher who insisted my kids were half sikh and half brasilian ...honestly people PLEASE one is a faith the other a nationality ...my kids are fully Sikh and so is your other half if he does practise Sikhi only

I'm interested jkvlondon, how did it come about that you married a Brazilian man ?

I mean, was it that you were both Sikhs and found each other as Sikhs, or did Sikhism come to both of you later in the relationship ?

Tommy Robinson is right about how not enough is being done with his example of interfaith dialogues how its just hello and goodbye most of the time. I feel UK Sikhs and along side with others need to combat this growing problem. Here in America the police are unjust a lot of the times, but to see this kind of police in UK allowing grooming gang hoodlums to do what the want with protection makes me sick.

We have 'policing by consent' in the UK. Thats why our police don't even carry guns, let alone regularly shoot dead 12 year old children for waving a toy gun (as happened 2 months ago) or regularly kill black people at will (as happens every day). Thus, our police are more accountable for their actions. The public expect to see them behaving in a curteous and respectful manner because the public know that if they don't, society can't expect the public to either.

Mistakes have been made, re; sexual grooming, peadophilia etc.....and we, the public will hold the police accountable for those mistakes.

The idea of khalistan being a "buffer state" has been proposed before and remains the solution of choice whenever this question is discussed on the Sikh media channels with jathebandi's purporting to represent the Sikh agenda. The justification behind such a notion being that both Pakistan and India are nuclear powers who are not on "friendly terms" and a small trigger or escalation of violence could cascade into all out nuclear war. A buffer state will help avoid such a war due to infringement of territorial integrity and national sovereignty.

I think you know, DailyMail, that it was me who, in the past, here on this very forum, has articulated and advanced that 'buffer state' theory.

I'm not going to go over old territory again but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that a free Punjab will come (and it will be called 'Punjab' not 'Khalistan') and it will come about purely because world powers will see it as being in their interest to have it. That scenario is inevitable.

But....for the moment, we Sikhs need to seriously up our intellectual game. Collectively, we're just not too smart. For example, we're not, collectively, well-read and intellectual enough to understand how Putin's new idea of politics by confusion is being embraced by organisations all over the world, incuding our own UK govt. In Russia, the way Putin did it was by actively supporting a cross-section of groups totally at odds with each other such as neo-nazi skinheads to anti-racism groups. The idea is that you make a series of contradictory statements...do a series of contradictory things thus ensuring your enemy is in such a constant state of confusion that he no longer knows who his enemies are, thus rendering him ineffective as an opponent. This is exactly what the right wing Hindu groups in Punjab, such as the RSS have done over the last couple of weeks. They've been doing things on behalf of Sikhs...and for the benefit of Sikhism....such as converting chrstians back to Sikhism not because they are nice people. Its because they are probably 2 or 3 steps intellectually ahead of us.

Our free Punjab homeland will come, but we need to up our intellectual game first.

Jagsaw

What about the local grocery stores/post offices in villages and in the non urban areas up and down the country or the local GPs in these areas?

Surely they can't be Bangladeshis as well?

Good point.

I would guess they're mostly Gujarati and that goes along way in explaining the almost total 'anglification' of the current generation of UK Guaratis. With the exception of those in Leicester and Wembley, this current generation is 'Asian' in skin colour only. Deep down, they have been totally whitewashed. For example, a friend of mine who works in social care told me how surprised he was to find how such a large proportion of elederly Gujaratis have been placed in care homes by their families rather than be looked after by the family at home.

But yeah....thats a good point you make DailyFilth.

Jagsaw,

What you say is only true for the minority, not the majority. If we look it like that, then every community has its fair share of top brass, which no one can deny.

On a side note, it's interesting to note how others in their community perceive them when that particular individual attains an education. Take Konnie Huq for example. Cambridge educated Blue Peter presenter. because of who she chose to marry, outside her community, many Bangladeshi's think she's a sell out. Yet, she's a very well spoken etc.

There are a few Konnie Huq's but not many.

There's more than you think DailyMail. We 'Asians' are pretty much ghettoized in thie country with nearly all of us concentrated in large cities. That leaves 90% of this country's land mass which is almost 99% white. In those areas, the only Asians the wider white population ever know on a personal friend level, are the children of the Bangladeshis that own the local 'Indian' restaurants. Trust me, they are a huge success story.

^ says the man thats never had any viewpoint about any discussion or anything to add about anything at all ever. Could there be a better definition of the word 'pointless' ? :stupidme:

I don't see why this private school, which charges parents up to $5000 a year per child, expects the tax payers of Brampton to fund their crossing guards ?

$5000 per year, per student, and yet they're too tight to pay mimimum wage to a couple of school crossing patrol ladies ?

Jagsaw,

"So, up and down this country, there are many Bangladeshis that grow up in solely white areas speaking like white people and acting like white people. They are a huge success story in relation to jobs and prospects. Overall, they have quite easily outperformed all other 'asian' groups including Sikhs".

Nothing could be more further from the truth. The following report is too long for my to copy and paste.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmselect/cmeduc/142/14205.htm

Bangladeshi children are the lowest performers in GCSE's when breakdown of the ethnic groups is analysed. Only gypsy and roma travellers fare worse. Job prospects are dim for this group. Actually, very dim. Exactly what have they outperfomed the Sikhs or other 'asian' groups at, precisely?

In fact, I recall a documentary a few years ago whereby teenagers of bangladeshi stock were interviewed about social deprivation in their area. It was somewhere in East London, maybe Tower Hamlets. Their spoken English was slightly worse than a new immigrant to the UK, I thought it was a second language for them. But alas, they were "British" by birth. Not so sure about speaking like "white people".

You've obviously not understood what I said DailyMail. I don't know if thats because you didn't read it in the first place but what I said was that the Bangladeshis that are scattered around this country in little villages in towns, for example in Dorset, Cornwall, Cumbria, Lincolnshire....i.e everywhere there is an Indian restuarant in every village and town in this country (which is pretty much every little town - and pretty much every one of those are owned by Bangladeshis) are as far removed as can possibly be from the Bangladeshis in the East End of London and the Lozells area of Brum. Their children are a huge success story. It is them that are so many of our London newsreaders and news analysts on Sky etc. Extremely well spoken...compared to the rest of us 'Asians' brought up in largely 'Asian' areas of the big cities, and extremely well educated.

I don't know if we're having an awards ceremony for the best questions of 2014 but my vote definately goes for this one. It is without doubt the Question of the Year on sikhsangat. :biggrin2:

Yes the new year has arrived for the Julian calendar

Perhaps you missed the breaking news from the BBC a couple of days ago, well I say 'couple of days' when what I really mean is 500 years ago, but it was announced that the Julian calandar is no more and we are now using the Gregorian calandar.

Not relevant you might say but ah...it is. For, you see, the eastern orthodox church still uses the Julian calandar and thats why in places like Russia, Serbia etc they will be celebrating xmas sometime in January and the new year soon after.

So, as per the Gregorian calandar a very Happy New Year to all my brothers and sisters on this forum.

It is because Muslims probably do not consider these fellow Muslims as even being Muslims.

Yazidis are not Muslims. The closest thing to their ancient belief system is probably Zoarastianism in that they woship fire as a god. There is also a tiny bit of Christianity, Judaism and Islam in their belief system but none of that makes them 'Muslim' by any stretch of the imagination.

Great speech.

So were Hitler's.

Little has changed. Little has been learned.

Like then, now, we have an elite that owns and controls everything. The non-white suffer and the poor white suffers even more.....because of what this elite control, steal and eat.

Just like then, now, great orators come along and tell the poor white man that the reason for his suffering and problems are these 'others' that 'dont belong here'. Poor white man has always been a pawn in the big man's game so poor white man unknowingly and unwittingly plays his part as the pawn and blames his compatriots (who look different to him) for all his problems.

Meanwhile, the elite, who own all the wealth, steal all the bonuses and suck the country dry through fraud, can't believe how the poor white man is as stupid and gullible today as he has been for exactly 900 years.

But....thats the poor white man, whether he be British or American in 2015 or German in the 1930's. Its easy to classify his gullibility and stupidity. But here's a new phenonema we're fiding here on this website. The brown man unknowingly and unwitingly playing the part of the 'pawn' in the big man's game. How do we classify him ?

However, four files related to India have been withheld: three from the prime minister’s office (PMO) listed as ‘temporarily retained’, and one from the cabinet office described as ‘retained under section 3(4) of the Public Records Act,1958’.

The three PMO files withheld are: ‘Visit to UK by LK Jha, member of the Brandt Commission and adviser to Indira Gandhi: meetings with Prime Minister’ (04/07/1983-21/03/1985); ‘UK/Indian relations: situation in Punjab, activities of Sikh extremists; proposed visit to UK by Rajiv Gandhi in June 1985; part 4’ (05/03/1984-22/05/1985); and ‘Assassination of Indira Gandhi, October 1984: Prime Minister’s visit to India to attend funeral’ (31/10/1984-12/12/1984).

The cabinet office file withheld is listed as ‘India: Political’ (04/05/1979-08/08/1985).

:omg: Now THAT ^, is the really serious issue here.