JRoudh

Why are so many Sikhs converting to other religions in the UK? What do they see in other religions that they dont find in Sikhism. How can we stop this whole-scale religious and ethnic cleansing of Sikh communities in the UK. This is happening right infront of our eyes and we are letting this continue without any action. As in the words of the former american president G. W Bush bad things happen when good people dont do anything. Lets get on the streets and bring Sikhs back to the religion. lets forget about doing parchaar and trying to convert people to sikhism. lets start converting the thousands of people who are already Sikhs back to the faith! Boleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Soniehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal Sat Sri Akaal!!!!!!!

Happy new year to everyone. Hope that your year was good and best wishes for the New Year 2015!!!!!

Its not about celebrating any festivals. Christianity is not a threat to Sikhism. we can Join in the festivities and will not harm any sensible Sikh.

Or instead of putting a star on top of the tree you could put a Khanda on it. personaly I think all trees and decorations should go though. Its not about hating christians or chritmas its just common sence. Why celelbrate something that is not part of your religion. but then again. as I said before its all about the drinking and eating.

I agree one of the reasons why some Sikhs are converting to other beliefs is because they are brought up way to liberalised hence these Sikhs dont take the rightfull path of Sikhism seriously are are swayed by preachers from other religions. This also sets a bad example to the youth who think Sikhs will celebrate anything. I think it is more to do about Sikhs will use any excuse to have a good drink. Lets face it christmas is not a religious occasion anyway its a time to get together and take out the whisky bottles and roast chicken. Obviously if your like me having a few drinks over Christmas is not gonna make us any less Sikh. Infact it shows how strong we are in our faith that we can celebrate christmas and not feel threatened. But I think we should definantly not be putting any trees up and decorations as apart from looking ridiculous it sets a bad exaple to the youth. We should be celebrating more Sikh occasions. W Muslims on the other hand will not celebrate Christmas because they have an inferiority complex with Christianity as Islam is a mixture of christian and Jewish beliefs mixed with some arab tradions and hey presto you have Islam. Hnece these people feel tenderhearted by chritianity

Yes, I remember always finding this confusing when I was younger as everyone I know says Ambarsar . But when I see the spelling online It is always spelled Amritsar I use to think this must be another place ... lol. But then some relatives explained it to me. It think this to do with the Punjabi Pronunciation/spelling of it and Amritsar is the English version or something like that. To all native Ambarsaris it is second nature but to outsiders they usually pronounce it as Amritsar. We actually sold 2 of our houses in Ambarsar, but we still got one there still and its always special to go back and see our old house thats been there since over 80 years although it has changed alot since modernising it. What makes it special is that the Golden temple is so close by also.

jkvlondon it is known as Amritsar officially but everyone that lives there, pronounces it as Ambarsar I am not sure why though.

Yes that is true The Punjabi spoken in Ambarsar as it is know is very nice to listen to and it sounds completely different to other areas of Punjab. I have alot of relatives in Dehli in india and their Punjabi is no way as good as that from Ambarsar. It is not as fluent, pure or original. I guess it just like how around the UK There are different accents this is the same in Punjab. As I speak in the Ambarsari tongue I get alot of compliments from people who say they really like my Punjabi. I guess its because I am from Ambarsar.

These fake Punjabis like think of themselves as more genuine punjabis and think Sikhs are less Punjabi. When in fact these people are more into their arabic culture of Smoking Shisha and other Islamic customs and traditions. Most use Khan as their surname name which comes from the Mongols. Bhatras on the other hand like myself are descended from the ancient Hindu Civilizations that have lived in Punjab for thousands of years long before any Muslims or foreign invaders came to there. In terms of who lie the claim to being the oldest group of people associated with Punjab that are in the UK are probably the Bhats and their culture has not changed for thousands of years. ie they remain pure and original in their Punjabi Traditions. Although none of these traditions are as important as the Sikh faith.

Oh hahaha lol sorry about that I must have got mistaken.

Starstriker your language towards Sikhseeker who is a female is bang out of order. Learn how to speak to fellow Sikh females.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Even if that was the case the fact of that matter is the vast majoirty of Bhatras became Sikhs in the Punjab area after converting to Sikhism by the Bhatras hence these people originated in Punjab not Sri Lanka. That is why there is nothing remotely south indian about Bhatras today. infact we are the opposite of South Indians in our culture We also do not have any south indian sounding names. but most of the Surenames in Bhats are native to Punjab not South India.

Sikhseeker, I think you hit the nail on the head! One thing I would like to add is that Bhatras did originate in Punjab. This is why Bhats are to be found in the heart of Punjab till the present day. Not far away places on the outskirts but in the very heart of Punjab. ie Amritsar, Lahore ect. Bhatra is a collection of Sikhs it is not one race. Hence it contains people from many different clans. That is why when I go to a Bhatra wedding I am still amazed by the many different sikh groups in the Bhatras which can be seen by their surnames. You see Bhats are the ones who brought people to Sikhsim hence the Bhatras are made up of the Sikhs converts from Punjab in the 16th century. Even if Bhatras originated from Uttar Pradesh only a handful would have entered Punjab. These people then brought many other Sikhs to Sikhism hence how the Bhatra population grew so big. Bhatra population today is dominated by people who originated in Punjab. But some people would rather believe in old wifes tales.

LoL I find some of the comments on this thread hilarious. First of all, If I knew about this Khand di Rasum or whatever it is called I would have no problem explaining what it is. But as I have never heard of this before. How do you suppose I explain something I have never heard of?? :wow: lol I think JagwahSingh knows more about this 'disgusting ritual' as he puts it so maybe he should explain what it is and why it is disgusting? And can enlighten us on this practice. As I have said before, I know nothing about this and hopefully never come across this if it is against Sikhism, Finally, I agree this thread should be closed now as other posters have said.

There is a world of difference between me posting a innocent video of a Punjabi Sikh wedding just for cultural awareness then posting some guy with a overgrown moustash wielding an axe with blood splattered everywhere. lol Anyway if this guy called meshi Jatt or whatever his name is. is your hereo then good for you and I wish you all the look in watching these prehistoric movies I have got a feeling this is going to be a never ending conversation with you startstriker. I have not got the time to be responding to you as you seem to be going round in circles not to mention butting into other peoples conversations.

That was exactly what I was thinking. That is interesting, I guess most of the UK Punjabi Sikhs come from Jalandhar areas apart from the the Bhat community who majority come from Amritsar, Lahore ect .West Punjab. I myself am from Amritsar as do most of my relatives namely Amritsar and Lahore. I find the Malwai Punjabi to be more easy to listen to and its usually more better with pronunciation and easier to understand. Its also more direct and aggressive and easy on the ears. I heard that Brampton in canada is mostly Moga if I recall? Cant wait to go back to the family home in Amritsar . Theres nothing like waking up to the sounds from the Golden temple in the morning the most beautiful region in the whole of Punjab hands down.

These pictures are nothing to be proud of. They depict a mona who is shaven with blood on a axe. I think you are forgetting this is a Sikh forum not a place to talk about some muslim tribes and posting pictures of people with axes and blood dripping from them. Okay so your proud to be a Jat and your also proud of your muslim jatt brothers pakistan for also being jat. Good for you star striker. It was jat people who were actually the first in india to embrace Islam. Everyone gives a lot of stick to south Indians for converting to Islam. But it was the jatt people who converted to Islam the most. The pakistani jatt probably dont care that your a jat also they probably just see you as another kaffir. why do you care about them so much. but each to their own.

ms14, this is the reason I made the whole Bhatra thread in the first place. It was to educate the Sangat on matters like this. Because this is what essentially prevents Sikhs from mixing with each other. Due to them thinking other Sikhs have different customs or what not and hence forming judgements and prejudice based on these false rumors and hearsay, because of not knowing about the community. Sikhs then end up being even more divided. Would you prefer I did not highlight these matters? To remove these false lies and thus unite the Sikh community? I understand where you are coming from and that we should not mention anything that promotes the caste system but this is about education not promoting caste. Bhatra is not a caste. We do not believe in caste system hence why in Bhat community there is are of many different Sikh groups. Such as Khatri/Tharkan/Jat/Rajput ect that are part of us. As for your question gurdssingh I have never heard about what JigsawSingh said. Thats something new to me. we dont have any unique customs or traditions as it is against Sikhism to believe in any kind of rituals. We did use to be into Jhakta meat and I recall going to farms when I was younger and buying live goats and peforming the Jhakta tradition. But we dont do this anymore and its rare. Only the hardcore Bhats still do that on a day out. Like most Sikhs we have now become over modernized and wealthy thus forgetting our traditions.

I dont think Jats in pakistan pay as much attention to their clan or caste as you do. Infact pakistani muslims place more importance on religion and marry out of their caste from the UK to Pakistan. I never hear any pakistani muslims boasting about being a Jatt. You may class them as your brothers from paksitan who share your dna. But As a bhatra the vast majority of Sikhs from this group, Maybe a small amount maybe muslims who are Bhat. but who knows what their heritage now after they have bred with the genral muslim population who come from many different ethnicity. Maybe in a pefect world you think the Pakistani jatts only marry within their own caste but that is not the case. As I have mentioned before Bhatras originate in Punjab from the Punjabi Hindus that lived there and have lived there for centuries before you was even born.

So when the Mughals invaded india did they not mix with the muslims. ie what about the mughal armies that came over to india? where are these people now. did they just go back to iran or the middle east when the were defeated? Pakistan is a multi-ethnical country. There are many ethnic groups and almost all of them are from different background. Generally the Pakistani people share their heritage with neighboring countries such as Afghanistan, India and Iran. There are also some Arab tribes such as Hashemis, Quraishes and Syeds etc. So there are millions of Pakistanis who are Iranian origin/descent And there are millions of Pakistanis who are of Afghan origin/descent there are millions of Pakistanis who are of Indian origin/descent There are close to million Pakistanis who are Arab origin Then there also Pakistanis of African origin located in southern part of the country. Also sizable community of Hazaras who are of Mongol origin. So Pakistanis are well mixed up society.

They may have started out as Hindu punjabis or other native indian races. But they were then converted to Islam and mixed with the arab invaders. Because of this they follow Arab traditions, language ect such as urdu. I don’t know what you are as I am not an expert on every Sikhs ancestry. Speaking for myself, we are are pure Punjabis and our language is not a mix of other languages as is the case of Muslim Punjabis. Ie we have no other influence on our spoken Punjabi. Such as Persian, urdu ect. This has not changed from the times of the earliest native Punjabis that we are descended from such as the North Indian Hindu Brahmins.

I dont think Muslims speak pure or genuine Punjabi because of the them mixing urdu with it and hence they speak a diluted version. They also are arabic origin hence they dont have the full grasp of the language as it is not in their true heritage. they speak a hindi /urdu punjabi hybrid language. ie they lost the original form of the language when the mughals converted them to islam and hence they mixed the arabic languages. Bhatras on the other hand speak Punjabi like its meant to be spoken with correct pronunciation and passion. This type of Punjabi cannot be learned. It is passed on from generation to generation.I have never met a punjabi Hindu/muslim or anyone that can speak as eloquently or correctly as Bhats. This is because by profession we were poets/bards. We were known to be very good at talking.

hmmm Interesting that most Sikhs come from this doaba region. What could be the reason for this? Bhatras mostly originate from what is now West Punjab and hence speak more similar to people from those areas i guess. I once heard a muslim punjabi girl speak and I was shocked how similar she sounded to me. Saying that Bhatras have a unique dialect in their own right. I can instantly tell when a Bhatra speaks and when a muslim Punjabi speaks. Bhatra Punjabi is more clear direct and better prounicated then Muslim Punjabi. They also speak faster and more loudly. I think this is due to Bhatras being the earliest settlers in Punjab hence we speak Punjabi in its original form. wheras other Sikh communities came later and spoke their own dialects.

I did not know that. But I do tend to find the Canadian Punjabi sound different to the UK punjabis slightly. ie Jazzy b and certain other singers from there. They speak in a more aggressive tone similar to Bhatras. Maybe thats just from a select few Ive heard from there. I also have to say Bhatras Punjabi is also different from Muslims Punjabis. The muslim Punjabi speak in a more softly and slow way and have different pronunciations for most words. The Bhatras on the other hand speak in a very loud, aggressive way with many different pronunciations Ie you can hear a Bhatra even if your a mile a way lol To be honest I dont come across many Bhats that come from Sailkot. So are you saying most UK punjabis are from Jalandhar ie east Punjab hence why they speak in that dilect??