MisterrSingh
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Posts posted by MisterrSingh
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I remember families passing around VHS tapes of Baba Isher Singh's diwaans to watch on Sunday evenings. I was barely out of nappies at the time, but I immediately knew when my parents had started watching those videos when I'd hear the unique sound of Baba Ji's harmonium and their particular style of raags they'd use in their kirtan. I was too young to understand what was being said, but stuff like that stays with a kid in a good way.
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2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:
My advice is to read it (PP), without any preconceptions. Then let it dwell inside for a bit to process, then form opinions. The stuff about BSB is probably the most controversial, but what they probably actually point at is the high probability that many contemporary Khalsa leaders were very fearful of him, and his style of leadership. BSB inspired fear all around - going by contemporary accounts the sullay were even shyting bricks about him right till the end.
You have to read the whole thing before making any assumptions anyway. There is a latter point (after BSB's shaheedi) when the Khalsa are hard pressed in some battles and they actually lament deserting BSB, saying words to the effect of: 'If he was here, he would've easily destroyed these people who press us so hard now.' Bear that in mind. The vision of BSB we have now is the whitewashed one of SS lehar. I think people grown up today are so influenced by this style that true Sikh texts are actually troublesome to them (as opposed to informative). That's sad.
It's good to go from Maucallife to Bhangu, because it gives a perfect juxtaposition of the latter protestant-victorian-anglo influenced historiography of 'Sikhism' in contrast to history as written by a respected Sikhs who were not compromised by colonialism or influenced too heavily by pachmee thought at that point.
In any case - can't you see your self-contradiction where you accept Macaulliffe's many many recorded miracles (which he obviously is skeptical about, but compelled to put in by his Sikh advisors), but then you are incredulous about the accounts of BSB in PP. Doesn't make sense to me. What's influenced your thoughts so much that you'd take a white man's word about your faith over an obviously talented and conscious Sikh writer?
Plus make sure you read the forwards of Maucalliffe's texts, because there he explicitly states that his work has a political agenda of placating Sikhs who were grievously offended by Ernest Trumph's earlier no holds barred contemptuous/offensive book about them. Macaulliffe even confidently states that they've managed to incorporate vows of loyalty to the british monarch in the amrit ceremony of the time - if that's not a blatant corruption/manipulation of Amrit Sanchaar, I don't know what is? SO that book has it's own colonial politicised agenda - though that is not to say that it isn't valuable in other respects - in that it records sakhis that would've probably otherwise been lost. And that it offers early translation efforts - with their strengths and weaknesses.
Check my scribd if you want. There's a shortish critical article about Macauliffe there written by an Irish researcher that you might find interesting. Tadhg Foley.
Well, I'm still going through the bulk of it at the moment, so acceptance is perhaps not the most accurate word to describe my state of mind at the moment. Just trying to soak up as much as possible. It'll be interesting to move on to Rattan Singh's work, and then compare and contrast.
Yes, McAuliffe outright stating one of the major reasons for him undertaking his efforts is to inculcate loyalty on the part of Sikhs who were fighting alongside the British. That did make me uncomfortable, but if it's a truth, then so be it.
Isn't McAuliffe's work a summarised collection of the major janam sakhis that are still used as the basis of katha and parchaar to this very day? In the footnotes there's regular references to the Suraj Prakash, etc.
I find it very interesting and amusing how McAuliffe has an obvious and unashamed lack of anything approaching tolerance of the Brahman agenda. He lays into their rituals and the way they conspired against Sikhs at various points in history.
What type of things was the German fellow writing about Sikhs? McAuliffe doesn't mention particulars, but just that it was designed to defame and slander the Gurus.
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On 3/12/2019 at 10:42 PM, dallysingh101 said:
Enjoy. Volume 2 (about the rise of Sikh power) is like proper Game Of Thrones ish.
Note how pre-british influenced Sikh historiography is not anything like what emerged after annexation with the SIngh Sabha lehar. The original stuff is raw and brutally honest to the point that it makes what came after look like whitewashed propaganda.
I'm working through the six volumes of McAuliffe's work (currently nearing the end of Volume 4), so this'll be next once I'm done with those.
I briefly perused the introduction, and it's interesting to read the author (or translator, Dr. Kulwant Singh?) was categorical about Rattan Singh's literal superhero flights of fancy regarding Banda Singh Bahadhur. Makes me question the entire endeavour if there's parts of it that are... shall we say a little incredulous. Tempered displays of mystical power I can live with -- and believe with as much veracity as anyone -- but some of the feats attributed to BSB are next level stuff that even our Guru Sahibs were against, lol. I mean, you only have to read accounts of 6th Guru's life to realise how they didn't really go for any of those unnecessarily showy and egotistical displays of supernatural abilities. They chided two of their son's for such mistakes, which arguably indirectly lead to their respective deaths.
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13 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:
What? To the alleged batty man business?
And some of the more serious allegations, too.
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Based on what I'm hearing, the phrase, "Like rats fleeing a sinking ship," is what's currently happening with this group and its offshoots. I hear even the notorious NKJ's loyal lieutenants have cut ties with their leader and the group's various commitments, although a part of me suspects this might be a ploy to create distance between themselves and their leader only for the sake of appearances. I can't believe anyone would be so disloyal to turn their backs on a guy with whom they travelled the world for the best of a decade, and spent most days when in this country in each other's pockets. The impression they're trying to give is that they were oblivious to their man's activities which is absolute rubbish. Either they were blind or they turned a blind eye.
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On 11/30/2018 at 12:29 PM, mahandulai said:
people bully you for a reason. they want the best for you, and you are not there yet. try listening to what they tell you on how to improve.
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18 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:
I hope you've noticed that pre-annexation Sikh texts are super awesome and interesting though.
Yes, there's a rustic romanticism about them that seems like quite a departure from the neatly delineated and boxed-in norms of modern times.
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9 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:
I know, it's highly likely that some people saw the growing strength of the (and let's be frank about this) mostly kamini backgrounded Khalsa, and the way this was restratifying society around them and removing their privilege as threatening. This might be a reaction to that?
That Bhangu quote I posted earlier makes interesting reading in relation to this when Bhangu suggests that the Singhs were from poor backgrounds and had limited vision regarding the extent of their rule as a consequence (preferring to rule areas they were familiar with as opposed to pushing outwards).
Yes, that was amusing. Guru Sahib was practically serving it up on a plate for his Singhs, and they failed to dream big. "Okay, if you're sure. Last chance..."
Generally, re: Bhai Chaupa Singh. What's the score? Most of his writings seem incredibly at odds with Gurbani and the general ethos of what we've come to know as the ideas stated by Sikh personalities.
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19 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:
Yeah it is. I think there is a big download button on the page that allows that for each book. If you can't get it from there, let me know and I'll try and find you another source. I'm sure you can get it from a few places now actually.
Just managed to download both volumes. Cheers.
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17 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:
I think a few of the so-called 'higher-caste' apnay struggled with that in the past, and it shows in their extant writing. Hell, some apnay still struggle with that today. lol
So he's attributing the commands he writes in his eponymous decree to Guru Gobind Singh. Why would Guru Sahib be at pains to preserve the "purity" and honour of the Brahman?
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4 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:
Don't know, but I got vol 1 and 2 on my scribd if you want them:
The extract I posted previously is from volume 1. Page 91 if I recall rightly?
Is it possible to download them as PDF? Thanks, though.
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Bhai Chaupa Singh wasn't a fan of caste mingling, was he?
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Is the above Panth Prakash on sikhbookclub?
Plus, why are even the best resources on that site marked with 1 or 2 stars?
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It would be too much for our brains to optimally process and function. We barely deal with one lifetime's worth of events and trauma. Having access to a library full of experiences, emotions, and memories spanning centuries would result in most people ending up in the loony bin. Only immensely grounded and enlightened individuals can handle it. The C:/ Format function performed by God at the beginning of each our lifetimes is a good thing. Clean slate, fresh start.
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23 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:
what makes these girls 'out of their league'? is it just the external 'beauty' after the make-ups been painted on? or the 'better' career? money?
these girls spend more time searching and analyzing the perfect male personality that suits their wants and needs than they do working on their own and thats why their personalities happen to be crap - empty, shallow and very unsophisticated....
Absolutely, I agree. Objectively, if a person is being deadly honest, there is a hierarchy of looks. Yes, we can argue about how society has arrived at this hierarchy, and which factors have informed rankings, etc. But then if it's that's obvious, why are these girls still pursued? So, it is the physical beauty of these women that overrides all other things in the mind of the guys we're referring to. Aren't Sikhs supposed to be at least inching towards the idea of seeing beyond the physical that the rest of the world is lost in?
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2 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
this forum has officially become a joke now LMAO !
buh bye .
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4 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
By the sound of it, this quote was made by some urdu speaker for "women" and how they allegedly cheat with men via smiles and such passive aggressive stuff . And now you're quoting it for ME and in previous post you said "Learn how to talk to men" which suggests you see me or gay men in general as some sort of "woman" . which honestly speaking stinks of age old patriarchal shallow minded thinking !!
grow up already. whats your use of living in a first-world western country *FACEPALM*
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8 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
you already did b**ch and now you're acting noble ?!
Get off your high horse already .
We were just having a healthy debate until you bounced on with me with sexuality remarks which were totally uncalled for, perhaps because you lacked any credible argument in the discussion ?!!!
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Learn to converse with men. You've spent your entire life around women, Hindus, and weaklings. You don't know how to behave and interact with normal individuals. I won't stoop to your level. God bless you.
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Bas kar, there's you lusting over benders your entire life, and you're talking to me about spilling blood and Sikh history. What did you think Singhs would've done with you if they'd discovered you eyeing them up in the jungles, lol?
I think we've got a "lost in translation" thing going on here. I'm not writing essays to explain myself, because I'm certain the problem is arising from your end. Don't try to twist this scenario to denigrate my beliefs and my faith in the path I've chosen. You're painting with broad strokes whereas I'm trying to be a little more subtle and considered. Clearly, you're struggling with the concept.
Give it a rest. I'm not interested.
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6 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
can you please detail further what exactly you mean
Jesus Christ, why are you making this such a struggle?
Okay, how are you still here if EVERY Sikh worth a damn martyred themselves back in the day? How did your ancestors manage to make their way to the modern era? Were they not prudent, lucky, or -- and here's something that may shock you -- desired self-preservation before any idealistic notions of dying for Guru and Faith entered their minds? Do you not wonder whether some Sikhs are "just" Sikhs in the same way Hindus are just Hindus, and Muslims are Muslims? What about the hundreds or thousands who slipped away on that day in 1699 when heads were demanded? Did they suddenly stop identifying as Sikhs? What if the Sikhs alive today are those who descended from such individuals? Perhaps that goes to explain the dire straits we find ourselves in, because when any Sikh worth a darn does emerge, he or she invariably ends up losing their life. What remains are the dregs. Think before you reply. You are seriously beginning to annoy me with your inability to see beyond the incendiary emotion you're leading with.
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10 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
I feel puratan sikhs who lived very uncomfortable lives yet lived in god's hukam were altogether separate community if compared to us. Imagine them coming somehow and seeing us in 21st century how we have become now ! I am sure they will be aghast
might have happened a lot during Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time . Many like traitor Gulab Singh and other hindus like him used to dress in a very sikh way , but believing in same old beliefs under the skin.
Same might have happened to an extent during british'ers period when sikhs were valued as martial race and rewarded.
Read the accounts of Punjabi society from before and during the human lifetimes of our Guru Sahibs. You'll begin to notice some relatable and uncomfortable parallels. Again, a minority of unshakeable believers doesn't constituent everyone. The era when Sikhs were hunted and claimed as bounty is not representative of our entire history. Sikhs began with the first person "converted" to -- for argument's sake -- Sikhi by Pehle Paatshah. You're tackling this issue too emotionally.
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1 hour ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
thats also whats called brown-nosing.
They knew how to appease the ruling class during various empires. Thats it ! Is that a talent ??
Sikhs just knew how to call a spade a spade ? we didn't had chaturai in us . I wonder if thats a moral principle or is it a burden ?
I , like most sikhs used to believe it was the former , but now I am beginning to wonder if Sikhs have always burdened themselves with it . Perhaps compromising with the ruling class would have save us a lot in history , but then again, if you're going to bow your head to avoid collateral damage to your people, then you can't wear a turban on your head, like the hindus don't wear any longer !
I don't think the history we're taught by our theologians does us any favours. Aside from a tiny, select few who realised the Truth, was the rank and file "Sikh" society truly any different in morals and worldview to what we're seeing in contemporary times? Or were people content in the idea of coasting along by referring to themselves as Sikhs for purposes of identity whereas in reality, beneath the skin, they weren't so different to their Brahmin and the Mohammedan neighbours?
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List Of 1984 Books
in GURBANI | SAKHIAN | HISTORY
Posted
I doubt OP is waiting on replies, haha, but another good book is 1984: India's Guilty Secret by Pav Singh.