MisterrSingh

There's a few cucks in the quam today who'd argue these weapons are symbolic of an anti-Sikh approach to existence, lol. 

I thought someone had misspelled "Big Nakh" i.e. "Big Nose" in the thread title. 

On 2/9/2019 at 7:05 PM, Guest Preet said:

I’ve recently been thinking a lot about Kesh and our society (Sikh) viewpoint on it. I came to realise that when a man dons the dastaar and trims, wears modern clothing, drinks, smokes, etc, it is regarded as “normal”. 

However, the weight of responsibility to present the best “Sikhi” role model is shoved and expected of females whenever they choose to don a dastaar. There have been many young Sikni Youtubers with Dastaars that have been massively shamed for wearing jeans etc. 

Why the double standards? Why is it that the Sikh community has become so obsessed with constricting our sisters whilst our brothers get to do whatever they want. 

This is deterring our sisters from actually exploring Sikhi. This cut-throat, “do it this way or don’t try at all” approach is turning youth away from Sikhi. Why have we lost patience and seek to encourage rather than put down our own Sikhs? 

In a bid to be fanatics, or to simply be “right”, we are putting off the youth from Sikhi. 

What are your thoughts?

There's a few false equivalences being presented, but I think I understand where OP is coming from.

- I came to realise that when a man dons the dastaar and trims, wears modern clothing, drinks, smokes, etc, it is regarded as “normal”. However, the weight of responsibility to present the best “Sikhi” role model is shoved and expected of females whenever they choose to don a dastaar. There have been many young Sikni Youtubers with Dastaars that have been massively shamed for wearing jeans etc. 

I don't think many people of our background would seriously point to a male with a turban and trimmed beard (who drinks and smokes), and think, "Yes, he's doing Sikhi absolutely correctly. He's a role model." Whereas there's a reasonable assumption that a female who wears the dastaar -- which is of the gol variety -- does so as a commitment to a spiritual path she's apparently decided to follow of her own volition. The turban was an item of fashion, in a social sense, before it was charged with religious symbolism. If the guy drinking and smoking decides to wear a turban he's doing so without any religious inclination. Did Sikh women in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th... centuries (who weren't baptised post-1699) wear turbans on a day-to-day basis?

Briefly, what I think is happening is this: some Sikh girls in the West are looking across at hijabis with their makeup tutorials, their vlogs, and whatever else they do on YouTube, and are thinking, "I want a bit of that action but from a Sikh perspective. But, damn it, if I wear a gol dastaar there's going to be the assumption that I'm religious, whereas I'm really not but I just want to wear it for various non-religious reasons. I know full well that turbanned Sikh males with trimmed beards aren't following the religion to the letter, so what I'll do is play the victim and bleat about double standards to make it seem like Sikh girls are being oppressed by a sexist religious patriarchy."

Have the courage and the integrity to stand up for what you want to do, without looking for the safety net of an "oppressor" to blame for any potential backlash or criticism heading your way. Impressions, long-held assumptions, and ideas -- whether true or inaccurate -- can't be modified overnight. If you don't want the female dastaar to imply exclusively religious connotations, then wear one and do whatever it is you want to do, lol. Eventually people will realise, like they have with the hijab, that it's just an item of clothing that bears no relevance to the mindset of its wearer.

It cracks me up how Westerners pronounce the term for the River Ganga. "GANJHEEZE." 

29 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

You know that songs about chipping in to buy a bag of weed right? lol

Yup!

This should be our national anthem:

Punjab is the land of 5 rivers / waters.

When did Singhs start going backwards like these jokers? Some of us spend our lives trying to pour cold water on that stereotypical "Modern Singhs are jokers / comedians / soft", yet this new generation comes along and publishes their befqoofi on the internet for the whole world to see. 

Whites should've stuck with their pagan beliefs or graduated to worshipping and keeping alive the Norse pantheon. Them being saddled with a Semitic religion of the desert is as relevant to their day-to-day existence as it is to us, lol, and no manner of white washing its origins and personalities will ever negate that fact.

On one hand their civilisation has been constructed with the mythology and the philosophy of that particular doctrine as its core and driving force, yet as we can clearly see modern Christianity, particularly the Anglican or CofE varieties (and various other strands TBF) have been diluted and neutered to the point of ineffectuality; atheism was always going to be the natural endpoint of such moral cowardice. The "turn the other cheek" ethos is ironically the foundation of what we know to be the liberalism of the modern age, and in that regard its adherents hide behind a facade of piousness and tolerance which is selective in its morality based on the background of the aggressor. 

2 hours ago, Premi5 said:

In all these places up north, where predominantly white working class girls were groomed - where were the stereotypical proud northern white working class brothers/fathers/uncles (yes I am aware that maybe they are from families where the father is absent) ?

The answer to that would require an essay, lol. It all feeds into the gradual yet purposeful post-war social and political policies engendered by the establishment that have hit the working classes the hardest. IMO there's definite parallels between the demoralisation of the white working classes in places like England, and the way India has gone about dealing with its rural Sikh populations. You don't need to physically harm anyone in order to destroy their spirit. A certain Sikh yodha mentioned something about the death of a conscience. Of course, there's enough plausible deniability in both cases for those who haven't succumbed to those problem to poo-poo the possibility of such issues being a reality.

3 hours ago, Big_Tera said:

Polish women just like other eastern europeans are new commers to this country. They are just like the first punjabis that came to the uk in the 60.s and 70's. When we were hardcore. 

Its only a matter of time before the next generation of polish become tarnished  and take up the bad habbits of the British culture. I will call it mainly the London culture. Which is about dating, promicious behaviour, drinking, wearing revealing clothing, clubbing. Listening to explicit music, doing drugs. Sex before marriage.  and the list goes on. 

In eastern European countries. People are a lot better and respectful. They respect their elders.. 

True, true. A few decades of being exposed to the BBC, lol, and the downsides of a western education (some call it indoctrination) will have their communities in a similar place to where we currently find ourselves as a collective. Although... it would be behsti if they managed to put up a better fight than us. 

17 hours ago, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

That's a very good point MisterSingh and I think Polish girls illustrate that point really well. I have some very close Polish female friends and I point-blank asked one  of them once (actually one of my tenants who has since become a really great friend) 'how come virtually all Polish girls are so damn pretty' ? She was actually very forthcoming with her answer which showed me that Polish girls have very low opinions of girls of other nationalities that drink, smoke and act aggressive etc. She said right from an early age Polish females are treated like princesses and expected to act like princesses...i.e always dress elegantly, look elegant, look after one's body and skin, always look immaculate and foremost be good mothers.  

These people hardly drink or smoke, look after themselves, are always wonderfully presented and are loyal and loving mothers. In my opinion the ultimate wifey material. Totally different to other Eastern European girls such as Romanians and Bulgarians,

Polish women remind me of the way our women use to be. There's a steel and an ankh to them, certainly the ones I've encountered. They're tough but there's actual substance behind it. But the key is they instinctively know when to cede ground to their man, and also when to fight their corner when their man is being obstinate. Punjabi women are tone (contextually) deaf and blind. 

Issues of attraction aside, I've found in the past few years that females from non-white and non-Sikh backgrounds to be more respectful and somewhat more capable of coherent thought compared to the aforementioned two groups. Non-white liberal women are simultaneously terrified (beneath layers of forced cordiality) yet patronising in their desire to ingratiate themselves with the exotic, and Sikh girls -- foreign-born and Indian born & raised -- are shallow and practically retarded for very different reasons. 

4 hours ago, Unknownlost said:

What about the mixed race religion children who or what will they follow or choose ?

Two choices: 

1. Nothing.

2. The faith / beliefs of the dominant parent.

26 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Could be some gora that got some stiff resistance from an apna he was flexing it on when he was younger? 

Maybe. Or he's one of those stale middle-aged white guys who "wants his country back", and stuff like Brexit and the rise of Nationalism (lmao) has emboldened and focused these guys' attention onto certain groups. I tell you, as much as the Far Right are clowns, they are easy to spot. It's the ones on the Far Left that will lead the place to ruin. Their cowardice and inability to call a spade a spade even in the face of overwhelming evidence, is why I don't get along with them at all. Their smug arrogance is the rotting cherry on top.

1 hour ago, Big_Tera said:

The actual comment was directed at me. In the comments section of a youtube video. 

Without going into to many details. It was completley unprovoked comment by this man. I made a completley innocent comment about some video. This guy noticed by username which contains sikh in it. 

Then he posted some rant about Sikhs. 

I am 99% certain it was a white man and not a hindu. 

His username was english and the video i posted in was english. Why people think it was a hindu i have no idea. He  is an old man as he claimed. 

I've observed a few Hindu trolls online, and they love going for the Sikh = Muslim / Bin Laden / reminding people of Indira, angle. It's practically part of their rulebook. But anyway it could well be a white fella, too.

Source and context?

Plus, that sounds like a Hindu wind-up merchant masquerading as a clueless old white man. Not saying whites aren't capable of filth and bakwaas, but there's something fishy about that whole post. I can sense a disturbance in the Force.

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Some things with western lifestyle are toxic and other aspects are positive.

Some things in traditional Punjabi culture are positive and other aspects of it are toxic.

There are other toxic elements that have nothing to do with being westernised or the Punjabi cultural background.

Some people are just s*****, lazy regardless.

These sh**s in every group, community, faith, and there's scum in our community as well as our host community. Just got to keep perspective and not write off everyone as a lost cause even if it may seem that way. 

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

You hit that nail square on the head there. 

It's sad when we see posts from people who've obviously come from 'religious' familial backgrounds who've 'lost their faith' because they never got the job/wife/degree that they wanted and thought their rigid religious observance would help them obtain. 

It smacks of "First World Problems" doesn't it, but wrapped up in the strangely entitled mentality of the apparently religious and spiritual who seem to think they have a hotline to God whenever they think they deserve a better job, a promotion, a pale-skinned wife, or a larger house. Call me cynical, but it's those kind of people who end up falling for the dodgy holy men and their schtick, and before they know it they've spent their entire lives in the service of a charlatan. That's another janam wasted.

Yet, if they'd paid attention to the Gurbani they apparently perform each day, it says in Japji Sahib that no other individual can put a good word in for us when the time arrives for us to cross the ocean of the afterlife; the only things we take are the fruits of the Naam we've earned whilst alive. You certainly aren't granted those blessings through mouth-to-mouth Simran, or ferrying around a fat baba to the homes of the similarly deluded in a luxury car for 30 years, or other similar transferable techniques. So, where's the confusion?

1 hour ago, GuestSingh said:

agreed brother.

from my experience, it seems like a build-up of feeling purposely 'alienated'/'isolated' from my identity since childhood...there were no apne around growing up, not even on a non-segregated, mixed-race neighbourhood - there were a couple of em in primary and secondary school but home was always far away as were gurdware so interaction outside with em was almost non-existent..there were factors like a large family living abroad, parent/s not bothering to teach panjabi despite constant requests, not really being taught anything about panjabi culture and faith...so the personality/interest was there from a young age....

but the real turning point came a few years ago when in a really dark place...after constant arguments/fighting at home, unemployment for a really long time with little money to my name, no partner or house etc. an acquaintance (dont do friends) who was christian accepted a request to stay over...soon my mind began to take an interest in 'god'...and that's when the questions came...'whats this sensation of always feeling something 'missing' in my life when everything (material) is here?', 'whats this inner-voice thats stopped myself from doing bad things and having potential regrets?' 'why have/are my lifestyle choices been so different from everyone else associated in my life?...this 'cocktail' of feeling lost, confused and fed-up is what really 'exploded' and 'ignited' my interest and research in sikhi and also panjabi culture...

this very 'desire/urge' to reconnect, well just explore and discover became an obsession...after reading so much of the suffering, sacrifice and injustice of our people and panjab, something just 'clicked'/'changed'...this was gonna be my life, my identity, my culture, what people knew....

the 'positive influence' mentioned earlier came in the form of a gursikh who came to decorate the house before my sister's wedding - his polite and kind nature left a really positive impression (think that's the first time of ever meeting one in my life)...

and what u say about the moment of really believing is so true - when without work, my mind would constantly plead with akaal purakh for an offer after so much rejection, eventually it came as did another a bit later which turned out to be the best one outta all of em...the first thing done after getting the first phone call was folding my hands and just giving thanks...was this already planned as a test of my sincerity and belief? was something greater already planned or was it going to happen anyway? will never know the answer to that...but it solidified my belief and now it's just a case of keeping faith with what life puts our way and staying on this path...

on hearing about my choice to practice sikhi, my nani said 'waheguru came calling and the call was answered'...

sorry if any of this bored anyone...been doing this too much recently which is really unlike my character (usually a quiet and reserved person who speaks little)...

anyway, that's my story...hope it didn't bore too much.

It's ironic that in my case the darkness I've been exposed to has originated solely from those in the garb of the holy and the spiritual. No, I wasn't abused in any way, thankfully. Yet, if I was one of those westernised pappus looking for an excuse to get-up to allsorts -- or even non-believing Punjabis -- I'd be trashing my religion and my people at every opportunity. It would've made bearing the pain a lot more tolerable, but ultimately it's like a child lashing out at something he can't confront and deal with effectively. I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. But even in my darkest moments, at a young age, I realised the path of Sikhi is distinct to the people who profess to follow it. Nobody could've stopped me -- and they still can't -- if I'd converted to another religion or forgone religion altogether. But there's something inside me that feels an affinity for Sikhi. It was never drilled into me as a child, or subjected to subtle forms of indoctrination. It's always been there for as long as I can recall. I stick with it because it's good and pure, and because I'm not ungrateful. I'm not going to turn my back on something that was there for me when I had nobody.

There's a pre-moment and a post-moment in some people's lives. That moment when everything changes, and things are never the same again. Dealing with life after the post-moment is the true battle. When that veil is removed from our eyes (either forcibly or willingly) we see reality for what is truly is, and it's unbearable. Sometimes you'd prefer it if the veil had remained even though the life you were living was a lie. But eventually you realise it's best to live the painful truth than exist in a comfortable and peaceful lie. Living in ignorance is no way to exist. You will end up feeling utterly alone for the rest of your days, but, hey, if that's the price of being awake, then so be it.

10 minutes ago, GuestSingh said:

maybe my appeal was just a waste of time.

these young folk aint bothered and really dont care anyway...if they wanna continue enjoying their western comforts cuz a few lifestyle choices and habits appear so 'hard', 'difficult' or 'weird' to change and adjust from the norm thats up to them...but once they start complaining of their regrets in not pursuing these priceless aspects as well as becoming inflicted with the countless commonly-known and widely-associated mental and physical health conditions that come with a western lifestyle, their ignorance, weakness and lack of obvious foresight deserves no sympathy.

someone's either got 'it' in em or they aint - this urge/desire to reconnect depends on personality along with a little exposure to positive influences and other stuff like personal feelings on identity, history etc.

it's gonna come from within, not by force....

If I may add, that genuine feeling that comes from "within" isn't rooted in a random quirk of fate just because some baba or giani manages to get his hooks into a gullible person (which usually doesn't last forever unless the brainwashing is done exceedingly thoroughly). That moment from within is usually necessitated by a personal moment of intense significance in that person's life. THAT'S when real faith, religion, belief, etc., enter the equation.

Everyone's a believer when life is mosying along during the good times. It's when life deals someone an indescribably harsh hand, and that person feels compelled to turn to something bigger than themselves, because he/she realises that fellow humans don't have the answers to their problems; that's when TRUE religion and faith emerge. Anything else prior to that moment is either blind and obstinate faith, or posturing and playing up to the image of what our families, friends, etc., expect us to do in those situations.

You could also interpret it as a form of flattery. I think it's quite patronising, as if all we've to offer are our physical attributes, which is a roundabout way of suggesting we aren't the sharpest tools in the box. I suppose there are worse things to be described as, but it perhaps doesn't ring as true as it once did in the past.

4 minutes ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:

There is an inherent flaw with this kind of thinking . A Sikh can never do enough for the guru, as much guru out of his relation of love can do for the sikh. 

Its hard to motivate ppl to do something simply for the sake of it , unless they know some loving force blesses them 

I was quoting JFK. It's a well known quote that I co-opted. I'm basically suggesting that selfless service is its own reward. The expectation of being showered with blessings and rewards reveals vested interests behind the facade of compliance and devotion. If it happens, wonderful, if not then move on. 

I think it served two purposes: symbolic AND literal / social / political. Symbolically, to reinforce Sikh ethos and provide a practical example of the message in the Sikh scriptures of the time. Literal, to reach out to Muslims in act of good faith so that during the coming times of that era it wouldn't be assumed that Sikhs were enemies of your average Muslim or Islam, therefore any efforts being made to resist Mughal tyranny wouldn't be sabotaged by Muslims on the ground. It was intelligent statesmanship and spiritual goodwill.

They have huge chips on their shoulders regarding "foreign" advice / intervention even from the likes of us. They cannot discern between conciliatory, friendly advice from a humdari and well-wisher, and the other type of person whose words are ego-laden and condescending. They simply lack the emotional intelligence to differentiate between the two. The funny thing is they would become the very person they resent in a heartbeat, so that goes some way to explain how utterly befuddled they are as a people. Can't be bothered with their bakwaas anymore. Leave them to their KAANGRESS and their BEEJAYPEE nonsense that'll never end, lol. Clowns.