Lion(LK)King

Akal Thakhat has made a decision on the issue of kuchi Bani.

Since no-one bothered to respond, I assume that he did indeed sing dharna.

A beanti is - call it dharna. Do NOT say he is doing KIRTAN. Say he is doing Dharna.

Thanks

London Singh, as far as I'm aware, all he said was

Agar na hotey Guru Gobind Singh Sunnat hoti Sabh ki.

I don't think that was a comment ina negative since, perhaps a comment showing the bravery of the Guru who didn't allow the entire population to convert, whilst in other countries islam really quickly due to conversin by force?

Again I don't tihnk it's a comment in a negative sanse, and many writers who have written about Guru Ji have quoted him, to show the greatness of the Guru (i.e. one who stood against tyranny, and not islam per sey..)

Contact some legal expert on this issue. Since you live in UK, contact Harjap in Southall, his office is just beside the havelock rd Gurdwara

How was he then able to excommunicate Jagiro wihout his prior permission?

Don't purchase things of Chattar Singh Jeevan Singh, they are well known for doing Beadbi of Guru Sahibs Saroops and Gurbani. I repeat do NOT go to Chattar Singh jeevan Singh.

There are two bok shops right beside - Singhbrotherss (singhbrothers.com) and khalsa brothers.

Your best bet would be the Taksali store behind Darbar Sahib (just behind the langar hall, opposite to where they sell delicious puriya choley! lol)

Or, on your way to Darbar Sahib, there's a place called Mehta Chaunk, (Batala) where the DDT headquarter is. There are stall there, and there you will definetly be able to find it. It's on the way to Amritsar.

Would appreciate if someone could post an audio copy of it.

I've heard a few times, but want a copy of it :lol:

The wicked scholars on

http://globalsikhstudies.net/

Have also made an amazing effort to refute some of the things our Dear Mcleod bhaji has written.

It is an amazing site with all kinds of information regarding Sikhi, Sikh History etc :lol:

Giani Puran Singh, is this the one that used to do seva as a granth in Darbar sahib during 84. Was Giani Puran Singh selected by Badal & co, or was he elected by Panth?

Savita Bhenji,

Although I do not agree with that guy who refused to cover his hed in a Gurdwara, since it is the protocol of Gurdwara to always keep your head covered.

On the other hand, the guy who does not like India (tuhadi Bharat Mata), probably has enough reasons to do so.

Leave ti to home, it's his opinion. He probabyl has a good reason for not liking your Bharat mata (Mann Quam Liye Kurabn Bhaji has mentioned a few possibilities).

Just respect that he disagrees with you :lol:

Most common reply you would find:

Jathas are grops of Sikhs with certain beliefs, thta differe slightly from others. Some stress certain parts of Sikh, whilst other stress certain. For example, Akhand Kirtani Jatha focuses on Doing Kirtan, practising Rehit, Taksalis stress kirtan and katha to udnerstand, practise Rehit, have some dodgy influences etc.

My view:

It has become a castism of the Sikh comunity killing us slowly, since many of us seem to forget the jatha that Guru Gobind Singh Ji created - Panth. Gur Sahib created Panth, and not jathebandis and what not. Many ard-core jatha members don't like to associate with people from other jathe, or don't respect those who don't agree with their jatha, or even when it comes to marriage, like to marry someone from their own jatha.

Jathism has become a castism amongst Sikhs. Unless we start uniting, and leaving our jatha labels, we're all going to drown in the jatha-ism that is growing in the Sikh community.

Bhull Chukk Maaf

Why is it important to sit cross legged, is it out of space-practicality, or does it have a spiritual significance?

Been thinking about that for a while..

Wouldn't it be better to sit like you feel confortable than sitting in a way you're not confortable?

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Veer jeeyo, I suggest you read the following link (It is in Punjabi though):

http://gurugranthdarpan.com/0553.html

Notice the 'Note' By Prof Sahib Singh when explaining the bani

Basically he's saying that

Bhai Mardana Ji couldn't use the word 'Nanak' in his composition. It is Salok Mahalla 1, and the Shabads are associated with Bhai Mardana Ji (whatever that would mean), But all three Shabads are 'Mahalla 1'.

My Understanding: The Shabad have something to do with Bhai Mardana Ji (i.e. might originally come as a lesson to Bhai Sahib), and are in some way related to hi, but they are all written by Pehle Patshah :lol:

For those who cannot read Punjab I will try to 'romanize' it:

"Note: Bhai Mardana Apney kise Rachna lafaj 'Nanak' nahi si vart sakda. Salok Malla 1 hai ate Mardana no sambandat kite hai. Tine hi Shabad Salok Mahalla 1 de han"

Bhull Chukk Maaf

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

As far as I'm aware, Surinder Singh himself is a Sikh, but some of the employed on Rajaecdemy are indeed naamdharis, because unforunatly Sikhs have forgotten their rich heritage of Raag Kirtan. I believe one of his students once posted that Surinder Singh said that if theres any Sikh who matched the skill of the naamdharis currently working, he would appoint them,.

Is there anyone up for that?

Also, Khalsa jee, what is the poitn of writing a Shabad in a prescribed raag if it's not be be read in them?

Guru Ji wrote Shabads in Raag, and he wrote shabads without raag.

Perhaos there was a reason for writing certain Sabads in a raag?

Agre that String instruments are crucial not to forget, and that toher instruments can too be used, but if a shabad has been prescribed ina specific raag, it is doen tha for a reason.

Gur Ji inveted instrments that were adjusted to the Raag System, Guru Ji arranged Bani by Raag, Guru Ji prescribed over 95 % (approximation) iof the bani in Raag. He left some outside Raag, and Bai Gurdas Ji's bani is also without raag - perhaps theres a reason for holding this system? Perhaps there's a system we should follow here?

Bhull ChukK Maaf

Jinnah was indeed a very wise man. he did not fall intot he traps set out by Gandhi and Mehru.

Unforunatly for us, we had our own very dear leaders, Bhai Sahib Bhai Balwant Singh ji, and Mastar Tara Singh Ji.

How lucky were we not?

Jinnah coudl see through the lies set out by the leaders of the Congress, and even the BRITISH approcuhed the SIkh leaders to tell them that they too could hav ea political stand int he world. But no, sanu seat chahidi yaaaaa!

This is a crucial issue, that most peopel don't seem to be bothered about.

If it is confirmed that the anag karj ahs been changed to the Gurdwara, thne this is a very good thing for all Sikhs. If it is not, everyone shuld email on the behalf of whatever organisations they might belong to or Sikh society events. There's no harm in anyone from Canada emailing under the name of COSS, or SOSS or something. We need more organisations to get inovled in this, since most don't seem to care about this issue.

Also Gursa SIngh, you earlier on mentioned that the Singhs of R4G went with Nihang Jathey de Singhs and spoke to Jathedar, and that they promised to keep you updated and to keep on the pressure on VEdanti - any progress so far? Have the approuched him again, to remind him that this is still going on?

for once you've made a comment worth responding too...

"umm how can a human body help u meet god anyway? Only guru shabad can...its quite simple if u apply logic to it"

A guru in a human form is ur link with God...thru Naam Shabd. where do u get this naam shabd??? thru a GURU only. this highlighted thru out the Gurbani. 

...simple logic.

161736[/snapback]

Misskuar. I'm going to ask you something outright.

Are you a folower of Darshan Das, or have any alliegience with Darshan Das or their followers?

Thanks a lot Simmal Tree Je

Actually, Khalsa jee,

The last line of the explaination of The Shabad in Punjabi by Prof Sahib Singh JI, tell su it's not about having the understanding of that SHABAD, but of that 'halat', and starts simran-ing, THAT will give the understanding of everything and free you from maya.

THe English translation is off here

kbIr AwKdw hY—jo mnu`K ies (vwprn vwlI) hwlq ƒ smJ lYNdw hY, prmwqmw dw ismrn kr ky aus ƒ jIvn dy shI rsqy dI swrI sUJ pY jWdI hY (qy, auh ies iq®Snw-jwl ivc nhIN Psdw) [5[9[22

That explains why ETC Khalsa hasn't landed on this planet yet.

We can look forward to a few thousand protests against SGPC, before the start considering changing theri stand and start doign something for ETC KHALSA

First Shabad:

jo gurmuiK nwmu iDAwiedy iqn drsnu dIjY ]

jo guramukh naam dhhiaaeidhae thin dharasan dheejai ||

Please bless me with the Blessed Vision of the Darshan of those Gurmukhs, who meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

hm iqn ky crx pKwldy DUiV Goil Goil pIjY ]12]

ham thin kae charan pakhaaladhae dhhoorr ghol ghol peejai ||12||

I wash their feet, and drink in the dust of their feet, dissolved in the wash water. ||12||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=2776

Second Shabad:

gurisK hir bolhu myry BweI ]

gurasikh har bolahu maerae bhaaee ||

O GurSikhs, chant the Name of the Lord, O my Siblings of Destiny.

hir bolq sB pwp lih jweI ]1] rhwau ]

har bolath sabh paap lehi jaaee ||1|| rehaao ||

Chanting the Lord's Name, all sins are washed away. ||1||Pause||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...ID=493&Format=2

Simmal tree veer jeeyo, could you please, post the original line in Punjab by Bhai Vir SIngh Ji.

Thanks :lol:

Time for some disection

Nanak Naam Chardi Kala Tere Bhana Sarbat Da Bala,

To all my brothers who have poured out their hearts into this thread.

I am disappointed with my good brother singh_comradz as we have meet before and spoke about the same things, as you all know I don’t live in the Uk, so even this news takes its time to travel to me, but my dear brother singh_comradz you could have emailed me and told me you wished to discuss the teachings and misinterpretations that led to the death of our beloved Lord Maharaz Darshan Das Ji, and in response to my dear brother Lion(LK)King question which he asked my younger brother Das Kirpa, above the answer is YES, we truly believe Maharaz Darshan Das Ji was a reincarnation of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, as it is told in Bha Ballas Sakkhi, and also the same divine power that was Krishna, Ram, Ali, Jesus and also Guru Gobind Dev Ji. Yes I know you all probably think I have lost the plot, but this is the truth either you can accept it or ignore it, and if you all come back to argue about this with me, that’s fine as I will think you could not even be bothered to read what else I have to say.

The reason why He was shot was quite simply that he took a stand against Khalistan, as He said:” if my beloved Lord Guru Gobind Dev Ji did not create this nation then who are we but mere mortal men to do this in His name”. He did not say anything wrong against the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, as he held it in the highest respect as He did with all scriptures of all faiths, and this is even practiced today, as we have Akhand Paths on our special days, and also celebrate every faiths special day, may that be Easter, Eid, Janam Namshtav or Viaskhi. Even I respect the two young Sikhs who came to pay my Lord Maharaz Darshan Das Ji a visit on the night of November 11th, as this was there destiny to do this, sadly this will not be reflected in history, just as the names of the soldiers who whipped our Lord Jesus Christ are no longer known, as they say its in not the name of the assassin that is remembered with respect but of the one who was assassinated, so they have done a great service to us, as they have immortalized my Lord Maharaz Darshan Das Ji, and for this I cant thank them enough.

You have speaken much about Guru Gobind Singh ji, however you have competly failed to mentined the massacre, carnage, atrocities of Sikh in India during the 1980's. Sikh at the time did not run around crying 'Khalistan Khalistan' just because it gave them a 'kick', or they 'enjoyed doign it'. Most of those who did run around crying that had to suffer for it. They went to jail. Were tortured. The reason they did it was because they could not stand the amount of oppression against Sikhs since independence. You talk a lot about Darshan Das being an incarnation of the Gurus, yet he failed miserably to raise his voice. How can he reflect Guru Nanak Dev Ji? Guru Nanak Dev Ji, called the ruler at the time Babar, 'Zabar', tyranny. Where was this Darshan Das, when hudnreds of thousands Sikhs in India were being looted, tortured, Sikh women raped, sexually harrassed. Where was your Darshan Das? Was he sleeping? Was Darshan Das crying out against the Government in the oppression?

We believe in unity on all levels as all men are created equal, we have a sangat that spans all four corners of the globe and represents people of all walks of life and faiths, as we are not here to convert anyone from their own belief or to impose our own faith on them but we want to help people practice what they believe in, and respect humanity as this is the foundation of being a true sevak of any faith. We can all sit here and preach to each other and compare how we are better etc, but how many of us stick to and practice what we believe in everyday and aspects of our lives, i.e. the simple things like being honest even to the point of ‘if I lose my head over what I know is true than so be it’ or simply helping others or doing good for a complete stranger, like helping a old woman cross the street, or giving a lift to a stranger, and most importantly expecting nothing in return. We can do all these things for our loved ones as they are dear to us, but how many of you will say: ’Yes, I try and do something good for someone else everyday of my life, and to be humble and honest.’ I would be surprised if there was even one of us here to say that.

The saddest thing is why you think or believe we are Sikhs, or Maharaz Darshan Das Ji or even Hazur Tarlochan Das Ji has ever said they were a Sikh? We are simply a Das, a servant of humanity. Please do not get us confused as we are not here to say we are right or your are wrong, but we all walk the same path to Gods true Sachkand. However we all take our own journey in reaching it.

Even our dearly beloved Guru Nanak Dev Ji said He has come for everyone just as did His Holiness Jesus Christ, as they came to deliver a simple message of peace, love , unity, humanity and most importantly One God (Ek Onkar). It’s a shame how us weak people forget this simple message and we all think we know better and build great Churches, Mandirs, Mosques or Gurdwara, and we begin to preach what we think is right, and forget what we should be teaching. Even if in some places the true word of the Lord Almighty is taught the moment we leave such places of worship everything we learned pours out of our ears, as we got lost in the false world of Maya, falsehood, pretence, lies and temptations.

Well for now I have said more than enough and I am sure after I return from my long weekend there will be more than a handful of response that will be directed at me, so if you don’t hear from me until Monday or even Tuesday at the latest don’t worry as just to busy to come back to you.

I wish you all well and until the next time

Nanak Naam Chardi Kala Tere Bhana Sarbat Da Bala.

Guru Satgur ka jo Sikh akhay

A das, slave, servant of the Guru IS A SIKH, but you have resorted to following a apostle, instead of following the true Guru.

hir so hIrw Cwif kY krih Awn kI Aws ]

har so heeraa shhaadd kai karehi aan kee aas ||

Forsaking the Diamond of the Lord, the mortals put their hopes in another.

qy nr dojk jwihgy siq BwKY rivdws ]242]

thae nar dhojak jaahigae sath bhaakhai ravidhaas ||242||

Those people shall go to hell; Ravi Daas speaks the Truth. ||242||

Boycotting... And writing letters.

Anyone up for writing up a professional letter :lol: ?

Agree with Golee Maro.

Just because he's a fan of Niddar doesn't mean he dones't have views of his own. lol

I know a lot of people who are 'Uk Nihangs' and disagree withe Niddar.

Sikh in the Swedish Army

Sunday 25th of September 2005

Panthic Weekly News Bureau

Stockholm , Sweden (KP) - In April 2003, Swedish born Jaspal Singh applied to join the Swedish military defence service at the age of 19 years old, after completing his education. Jaspal Singh is a proud a Sikh with a supportive Gursikh family. He applied to the join military service wearing his dastar (turban) and with his untied flowing beard. Jaspal Singh surprised the military officers when he turned up at the military defence service in Karlskrona with kesh (unshorn hair) and dastar tied on his head.

In a climate when governments and authorities are discriminating against the religious attire and symbols, and imposing restrictions, the Swedish army made a positive move by allowing and respecting the Sikh dastar and distinct appearance. This move was warmly welcomed the Sikh Community of Sweden and Stockholm Gurdwara Sahib.

Jaspal Singh completed his 17 weeks basic military service training on 8 th April 2005. Finishing the military basic training, Jaspal Singh chose to study Medicine. He is set to graduate and receive a Diploma from the Army on 13 th January 2006. Completing the full training and graduating from the Swedish Army will mean that Jaspal Singh will be on call to assist the Swedish Army during an attack or when his nation requires assistance.

During spring 2003, a young Muslim lady was rejected from enlisting in a truck brigade within the voluntary defence unit, because of her headscarf or hijab. However, when this issue of discrimination was highlighted, new guidelines were implemented. Now it is permitted for military staff to wear a dastar (turban), skull-cap, and a headscarf though the latter two need to be worn underneath the uniform hat when outdoors.

The attitude is clear from the defence's point of view, at least in theory. However, in practice the insecurity still runs high.

When Jaspal Singh appeared at the regiment, Mats Norrman got a phone call from Karlskrona. The army had knowledge of the Sikh dastar as result of a liaison between Stockholm Gurdwara and the army. Bhai Darshan Singh has been active member of the Sikh community  explaining Sikhi and building understanding within the Swedish community. However, the officers in command wondered about the Kirpan, which is one of the five articles of faith that a practicing Sikh always wears.

“I told [Jaspal Singh] that the Kirpan is allowed to be worn as long as it is underneath the uniform”, Mats Norrman said. Jaspal Singh did not notice anything about the great stir. It wasn't until Jaspal Singh left that he found out about the telephone call to the headquarters.

In the workplace, several laws grant protection from discrimination. The equality law is complemented by three laws implemented in 1999, which protect from discrimination due to religion, ethnic origin, functional disability, or gender.

An employer who rejects a person for wearing any head garment like a scarf or turban must himself argue the existence of a reasonable and plausible condition. “There can be security reasons,” says, Dan Isaksson, Judge of Appeal and Secretary of the Discrimination Committee at the Justice Department.

However, Jaspal Singh got on well and enjoyed military service. In seven weeks, he learned how to handle weapons, discipline, respect, and how to adjust in an open field. “It was never a problem. When we wore ou uniform, we were supposed to wear a cap, however, I wore my dastar. After a while, I changed and wore a green dastar instead, since it fits better [with the military uniform],” he said.

Jaspal Singh has been active in the small Sikh community of Stockholm . Last July Jaspal Singh and Jasmeet Kaur with other youngsters organised a Gurmat camp for children. Also Jaspal Singh teaches children Gatka (Sikh martial art). May all be inspired and proud of Jaspal Singh's achievements and the strong faith and confidence he demonstrated in completing his basic military training while keeping the Sikh Rehat (discipline) with his head held high.

The editors can be reached at editors@panthic.org

http://panthic.org/news/124/ARTICLE/1824/2005-09-25.html

http://panthic.org/news/125/ARTICLE/1871/2005-10-09.html

About the vid: Norweegan Sikh Kids are really cuteee :wub:

Good way to create ekta within Panth and encouraging people to follow Guru JI :lol: