Lion(LK)King
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Posts posted by Lion(LK)King
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They are not part of the SGPC, but do keep themself under the banner of the Akal Thakhat and the Panth parvan Rehit Maryada.
I recommend you subscribe to any of their monthly magazines known as
sikhphulwari & Missioanry sedhan.
I believe the first one can be read online on their website (without any charge). Not sure about the Second one, and you yourself can read the "anti-gurmat" "manmat-parchar" they are doing.
For heaven sake, let a Panthic organisation do some seva...
Unless you have some concrete evidence to show there is no basis for you turning up and starting dissing a completly panthic organisation, under the Akal Takhat. Do I agree with everythign they say? Absolutely not. The SMC is set up to do seva by doing Santhiya, preaching ithaas, etc. I do disagree with several things they say and do, however I have no right to claim that they are distorting history for their own benifit, because I know that they don't.
Bhull Chukk maaf
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Kids Help Phone seems like a good thing.
Suggestios by 'Simmal tree' are very valid, and do need to be taken into consideration.
I was thinking "you know, we're got so many chardikala gupt people out there who can do this", but 'Simmal Tree' jee brings extremely valid points.
These calls can chan ge the entire life of somebody. It would as 'Namastang' jee said, to get something 24/7 sorted at once. It would however be mindblowing, if someone could get ONE SIKH representative on one of those helplines already set up. I am sure they would not mind having a special person for calls made by Sikhs who WANT to speak to speak and have advice by a SIKH counsolor. But again it needs to be an educated professional counslor and someoen following Gurmat.
An alternative Sikhnet Q & A Section would be an amazing start, followed by someone professional joining one of these organisations set up, and as more and more people get educated into it, it can at some point become a 24/7 helpline.
Bhull chukk maaf
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Dear bhenji/Bhaji, if you, unlike your parents feel that you are a Sikh, and not a Hindu, I think you should br peoud of your decision, and respect that your parents do not agree with you. This does not mean they're right, because I feel that, if you feel you're a Sikh, then that's exactly what you are, and who you belong to :e: .
Perhaps this instict that you have obtained - that you are a Sikh, is a way of making it concrete for your family that you are indeed Sikh (since they seem not to have realised this yet). Perhaps it was God's wish that you and only YOU should get that instinct, that "hey! We're Sikhs." :cool:
Try moulding your jeevan/life to become more like a Sikh, and endevour to become a real Sikh one day. Perhaps Gid wanted you to get that instict, and then teach your parents and your family members THROUGH you jeevan, through your life style. Parchar and preaching is not always about going out and telling people about Sikhs being distinct - it can be in practising and living it.
As Heera Singh suggested (exactly one minute ago), tryign joining Sangat. If you tell us your location, I'm sure someone from the local sangat will be able to conteact you :wub:
May Vaheguru Bless you to practise and live an ideal Sikh lifestyle, and inspire others to do the same.
Bless
Stay in Chardikala, and feel free to ask any questions on this forum filled with Sangat with a lot of Gyan about Sikhi
Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh
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Is it okay to play the Tavla, and the classical instruments designed by our Gurus, which require skin?
Technically, if we dont want to hurt anything, we should be eating air... it's scientifically proven that plants have intelligence to.
i think getting into useless debates on meat is pointless, let ppl decide that!
BTW, leather is bad....
Plant intelligence?
How does that work.
Could you please help me out here, providing a few links with evidence for this?
Getting back to the original post...
Milk is not a taboo within Sikhs, ebcause we have degh, which contains quite a lot of ghee, which comes from milk...
It's just about treating animals good. As Sikhs we should be drinking ecological, and not normal milk, where the cow is injected hormones to become a milk machine. It does cost more, something apney arn't ready to accept.
The Sikh youth should sponsor Ecological all the way
The solution isn't in leaving milk totally, but in changing the attitude towards the animals :wub:
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I agree 100% with 'Simmal tree' jee.
Char Shaibzadey, I believe, could not in any way, be an effecting factor, since
The previous 6 Gurus, although had a lineage, there were still loads of Sodhis walking aroudn who he could give Gurudum to.
Also, Guru Gobind Singh Ji already gave an answer to why he ultimately gave the Guru-gaddi, and try linking it to the concept of Bani Guru, and how Guru Arjan Dev Ji slept a level below Guru Sahibs saroop.
I sense that since you are studying Sikhi, you are imposed with mcleod-ism. Try avoiding it, it can make you sick.
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Try dtfbook
dtfbooks.com
117 Soho Road.
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All Singh Sabha Gurdwara need to be Singh-Sabha-d (removed of Hindu customs)
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Don't bother with the labeling, whether you're a good of bas Sikh, just try to become a better Sikh (we all can, can't we?)
If you want to become a 'better' Sikh than what you are now, then start practising Sikhi, asking others to label you isn't goign to Help. We are no-one to label or judge you. A Sikh is not judgmental. Go out there and become a better Sikh, instead of asking if you're a good or bad Sikh (We all should go and become better Sikhsi.. but then again I' a hypocrit
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LK,
Your points are once again totally off.
Even on a historical level, (look this up) Trilochan was not Namdev ji's Guru. No where does it say Trilochan gave Namdev jee naam. Meharban Janamsakhi in fact tells us that all the bhagats, including Namdev ji and Trilochan became Sikhs of Guru Nanak at Ayodhya (where a Gurdwara stands to mark the meeting). If they were liberated, why did they need to become Sikhs?
Secondly, the tuk you quoted "aap mukat mohi taarai" is totally inapplicable. Is being mukat a condition precedent or condition subsequent of being a Guru? Being a Guru in this tuk is the thing that precedes and once being a Guru, they can give mukati. By being a Guru, they are default already Mukat. This does not mean someone who becomes mukat (possibly only by Gurparsaad) they become a Guru (equal of their own Guru).
Gursikhs become jeevan mukat. Many Sikhs have been jeevan mukat but none became equal to Satguru and could give mukti. Only Satguru can give naam. Are you suggesting that a Sikh who reaches a certain level can then become the equal of Guru Nanak and Punj Pyaaray and give naam himself? How else would he give mukti according to you?
A Satguru has a lot of properties. He is in Anand, he doesnt' have any enmity, he seeks the "bhalla" of everyone. But having those qualities doesn't, in reverse make someone a Satguru.
The fact that the bani of Bhagat Namdev JI, Bhagat Trilochan Ji, and other Bhagats' Bani is in Guru Sahib is a very beutiful, and essensial concept, which in itself says a lot.
1 - Bhai Gurdas Ji clearly says that Bhagat Namdev Ji was one with the jyot. It clearly says that it was through Bhagat Namdev Ji's help Bhagat Trilochan Singh gained the jyot. Nowhere is a meeting at ayodhya mentioned.
One who is mukat (and thus one with the jyot), is part of the jyot, and can thus do anything the jyot can do. The Shabad clearly says, that even God is bound to what his devoties (which are ultimately the jyot itself) want/say.
Then you write -
Gursikhs become jeevan mukat. Many Sikhs have been jeevan mukat but none became equal to Satguru and could give mukti. Only Satguru can give naam. Are you suggesting that a Sikh who reaches a certain level can then become the equal of Guru Nanak and Punj Pyaaray and give naam himself? How else would he give mukti according to you?1 - Which Guru was Bhagat Dhru and Bhagat Prehlad 'mukh' to?
2 - Did the above mentioned get naam/mukti/sachkhand/liberation from the charan pahul of Guru Nanak Dev Ji of Khandey Batey di pahul of Panj Pyaarey, or? I put more trust in Bhai Gurdas ji than any Janamsakhi on the planet, and hence I trust the words of Bhai Gurdas ji saying that mukti/sachkhand/liberation/jeevan mukt, comes from Prem and Pyaar, the criteria Bhagat Trilochan Ji clearly had, and through Bhagat Namdev ji (who was essensially, one with the one, and hence the jyot itself..)
My understanding of Prof Sahib Singh is slightly different from the English translation
siqgurU AgMm purK hY ijs ny ihrdy ivc pRBU nUM proqw hooieAw hY [ siqgurU dI brwbrI koeI nhIN kr skdw, ikauNik isrjnhwr aus dy v`l hY [ siqgurU dI KVg qy sMjoA pRBU dI BgqI hY ijs nwl aus ny kwl (-rUp) kMfy nUM (Bwv, mOq dy fr nUM) mwr ky pry su`itAw hY [ siqgurU dw rwKw pRBU Awp hY qy siqgurU dy pUrinAW qy qurn vwly sBnW nUM BI pRBU bcw lYNdw hY [
The key word here seems to be 'barabri', compete. No-one can compete with the Guru, because he is one with Vahegur. Now someone who is one with Vaheguru, is he not one with the Guru?
Pheena jee completely knocked the nail. It is in a point of duality, where someone would be trying to compete. Perhaps it is there to show that even maya cannot compete with the Guru, since those of Semetic religions believe that 'sheytan' can compete with Vaheguru, but Guru ji is saying that no-one can compere with the Guru. It is impossible. All of the quotes talk about a 'jeyvad', as Pheena jee points out.
The first tuk you posted says the Guru and Sikh are one, both spread teh Guru's teachings. Both are one as they share the same mission. Absolutely. The tuk does not mean that both are equal and have the same rights though.(pRym dI brkiq nwl) gurU is`K (nwl iek-rUp ho jWdw) hY Aqy is`K gurU (ivc lIn ho jWdw) hY, is`K BI gurU vwly aupdyS (dI lVI) ƒ AgWh qordw rihMdw hY [ hy nwnk ! ijs mnu`K ƒ gurU prmwqmw dy nwm dw mMqr ihrdy ivc (vswx leI) dyNdw hY, pRym dw sdkw aus dw imlwp (prmwqmw nwl) ho jWdw hY [8[2[9[
'ek-roop ho janda hai', and AFTER that - 'Sikh Bhi Guru Valey updes di laRi agah torda hai'. Gurbani Tuk seems to completely concurr that anyone 'leen' or 'Guru nal ek roop' can indeed spread the message. Even if you argue that Guru Nanak Dev Ji (essentially, the jyot) gave naam to Bhagat Dhru and Bhagat Prehald Ji, it is clear that they thus had the power of spreading that message. This ofcourse does not mean that any Gursikh out there can do that, but that anyone 'leen' 'Guru nala ek' can do that. We know for a certain that Punj are just that, which means that we don't need to look 'dije pasaey'
Bhull chukk maaf :wub:
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Welcome to the forum 'shkhalsa' jee. You post is much appreciated, and I can just imagen how cute you kid must be :wub:
Stay in Chardikala
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Much material from the SRL was indeed taken away by the army in black bags.
They are not done editting it yet, so we arn't getting it back yet.
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Check videos on saintsoldiers.net, they have several videos with pictures.
Print screen...
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LK,
you said, "Now if Bhagat Dhru and Prehlad were liberated/Sachkhand/salvated (whatever you want to call it) - would they not inspire others? Would they not be able to liberate/salvate others?"
Let's use a current example. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh inspired countless people to come to Sikhi. But he could not liberate or save anyone. He inspired them to go to Satguru Nanak and get naam. He himself did not and could not do this. Dhru and Prehlad are exceptions because they got naam from Satguru Nanak before it was openly availabe.
Please read the arguments above and reply to them. I don't have the desire to repeat this debate a second time.
Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh
I have read above posts, my issues have not been addessed, about Bhagats liberating other people.
It is, in my opinion, not appropreate to compare Bhai Randhir Singh Ji to Bhagat Dhru and Prehlad Ji. Why? Because we can be sure (from Gurbani) that they were indeed complete/pooran porash, complete beings, I can not be sure about the same with Bhai Randhir Singh (although he is a very respected Gurmukh, he CAN NOT be compared to the above mentioned).
The fact that Bhai Randhir Singh could not liberate or save anyone is one of the thing that makes him different from the Bhagats. Bhagat Namdev ji, according to Bhai Gurdas Ji, inspired Bhai Trilochan Ji. Let's have a look how Bhai Gurdas Ji nails it -
drSx vyKx nwmdyv Blky au~T iqRlocn AwvY]Bgiq krn iml duie jxy nwmdyau hir clq suxwvY]
myrI BI kr bynqI drSn dyKW jy iqs BwvY]
Twkur jI noN puiCEs drSn ikvYN iqRlocn pwvY]
hskY Twkur boilAw nwmdyau noN kih smJwvY]
hQ n AwvY Byt so qus iqRlocn mYN muih lwvY]
hauN ADIn hW Bgq dy phuMc n hMGW BgqI dwvY]
hoie ivcolw Awx imlwvY ]ñò]
dharashan vaekhan naamadhaev bhalakae out(h) thrilochan aavai||
bhagath karan mil dhue janae naamadhaeo har chalath sunaavai||
maeree bhee kar baenathee dharashan dhaekhaa(n) jae this bhaavai||
t(h)aakur jee no(n) pushhious dharashan kivai(n) thrilochan paavai||
hasakai t(h)aakur boliaa naamadhaeo no(n) kehi samajhaavai||
hathh n aavai bhaett so thus thrilochan mai(n) muhi laavai||
hou(n) adhheen haa(n) bhagath dhae pahu(n)ch n ha(n)ghaa(n) bhagathee dhaavai||
hoe vicholaa aan milaavai ||aa||
Trilochan awoke early daily just to have sight of Namdev,
Together they would concentrate on the Lord and Namdev would tell him the grand stories of God.
(Trilochan asked Namdev) “kindly pray for me so that if the Lord accepts, I may also have a glimpse of His blessed vision.”
Namdev asked Thakur, the Lord, as to how Trilochan could have sight of the Lord ?
The Lord God smiled and explained to Naamdev;
“No offerings are needed by me. Out of my delight only, I would make Trilochan to have sight of me. "
I am under the total control of the devotees and their loving claims I can never reject; rather I myself also cannot understand them.
Their loving devotion, in fact, becomes mediator and makes them meet me.”
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...D=5770&Format=2
Totally concurs with the concept of 'jin prem kiyo tin hi prabh payo'
If Bhagat Dhru Ji and Prehlad Ji were indeed exceptions like you say, surely they must not be the only ones out there. Surely the ones they have 'liberated' 'salvated' must also be mukt, and since they are 'mukt' (one with Vaheguru), surely they too must be able to get others to become mukat.
The reason I don't look for other who are 'mukt' and 'enlightened' myself, is because I've already got a complete/pooran Guru -
AYsy gur kau bil bil jweIAY Awip mukqu moih qwrY ]1] rhwau ]aisae gur ko bal bal jaaeeai aap mukath mohi thaarai ||1|| rehaao ||
- I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to such a Guru; He Himself is liberated, and He carries me across as well. ||1||Pause||
Hence I do not need to look for others, But since someone who himself is 'mukat' can 'tarna' others, it means that there are those who did not follow the 'Guru Nanak Dev Ji' we follow today.
Sikhi is tolerant. Vaheguru didn't monopolize merging with him, and limit or 'filter out' anyone who doesn't follow Guru Nanak Dev Ji.. to not be able to meet Vaheguru.
Bhull Chukk maaaf
Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh
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What he's sitting on indeeds seems to be a 'throne' of some type. Akal Thakhat needs to dosomething about the increasing amount of saadh doing that.
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Why has this thread died? It made my laugh my stomach off.
The most embarrassing moment of my life was when I was falling backwards, with my huge bag behind me, in the escalator on the airport. Dastar flew off backwards, hair went loose (since the dastar went really loose after the flight).
Embarrassing bit: There were ‘apney pagh valley’ people standing in front of me seeing how I was jolting down the escalator. They didn’t care to help me
(talk about failing to help people, a fundamental duty of a Sikh, which is why we are recognizable, except when we don't drop our dastars off @ ), some Gorey then came and helped me up :wub: , and I quickly did Joora, took my things to the bench, tied my little keski, and put the dastar into the bag. I looked like a freshie, with an orange keski with kes dropping out of it (I didn’t have one of those metal sticks (slaiy/baaj) at the time to stick in the hair). Worst of it: The ones to pick me up were only family friends, and not even relatives. Pretty embarrassing me standing there with a dodgy shaped keski with kes sliding out of it-Indeed… the most embarrassing moment of my life.
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I completly concur with Khalsa4ever. Singh132 has openly admitted that 'Guru Nanak' (in which I assume, you mean Akal Purakh) has himself saved the lives of several, such as Bhagat Dhur and Prehlad as you mentioned. This means that, since they were enlightend in in the state of Sach Khand (While yet alive, since the Khands are states of mind, where sachkhand is where you immerse with Vaheguru), this means that they were indeed perfect/poorey/complete/ beings without any lapses, since they had been enlighteend by Akal Purakh Himself. Now the question arises, would these enlightened souls not make an effort to enlighten as many people as possible? Would BHagat Dhru ji or Prehlad Ji not, through their jeevan not inspire a lot of people to follow that 'Charan Chalo marag Govind'? Would their jeevans (just like you and I might be inspired by Bhagat Puran Singh Ji, Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji, Bhai Vir Singh Ji, Bhai Mani Singh JI, Bhai Taru Singh Ji, Bhai Gurdas ji etc etc), would these ideal 'complete' beings not automatically effect and inspire a lot of other people to follow that path to find that Vaheguru? I'm not sure how much Gurmat parchar Bhagat Puran Singh Ji did, however his seva, his lifestyle, his jeevani has inspired thousands of people to follow his tracks (which he's recieved from the Guru), and started doign Seva. His life has inspired many. Now if Bhagat Dhru and Prehlad were liberated/Sachkhand/salvated (whatever you want to call it) - would they not inspire others? Would they not be able to liberate/salvate others?
According to Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhagat Trilochan Ji was Inspired by Bhagat Namdev ji (Not straight by Guru Nanak Dev Ji, which means that IF Bhagat Naamdev Ji met Guru Nanak Dev ji (which I have yet to read reliable reference saying they did), it means that Bhagat Namdev Ji was able to inspire Bhagat Trilochan Ji, who in his turn probably inspired a lot of others), which means that a complete 'soul' (atma merged with Paramatma) can indeed inspire a 'non-complete' i.e. a person filled with ego. Which now leads us to => Bhagat DHru and Prehlad JI most likely inspiring others, which means that there were those who were not straight followers of the Guru Nanak Dev JI whow as born in 1469 AD (at least who was PHYSICALLY born 1469, I am not talking about the souls liberated by 'Guru Nanak Dev Ji' prior to 1469)
My conclusion: Some people say that talking to them is like talking to Christian Missionaries. Unforuantly they do not realise how much they themselves sound like missionaries trying to say that their path is the only path, and that their 'marag' is the only marag to lead to Param-atma.
Sikhi is universal. Sikhi is not dogmatic. Sikhi does not acknowledge that it is the only path to God. As a matter of fact, Sikhi condemns any one making such claims, it is however very sad that Sikhs have started makign up such claims.
Bhull chukk maaf
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Oh no. Some people will not be happy about us discussing this. After all it is not a Sikh issue.
I know they are Arya Samajis but why did Bobby Deol get married in a Gurdwara ?
Also they are doing a remake of Sholay, apparently Danny is playing the role of Gabbar, so that is a film to avoid. Abishek Bachan is also in this new film.
Also not many people know this but Amitabh Bachans mum is from a Sikh family.
Following image is on wikipedia
Not many people might know that Amitabh Bachan was a close friend of Rajiv Gandhi
Also, how do you know The Doeols are Arya Samajists? [who are Hard-Core Anti Sikh]
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Happy b-day to this very special bhenji found on all forums and blogs, posting inspirational posts here and there :wub:
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Look around for Bhai Balbir SIngh Ji
www.ikirtan.com
Bha Avtar Singh too, does Kritan on the Taus (a string instrument designed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji)
I believe he does Kirtan ion the Taus on sikhifm.com (he also does it on vaja, so I'm not sure)
I think it's mindblowing!
It's really Good that the two important aspects of Kirtan are coming back:
Raag
and String instruments, of which some are DESIGNED AND INVENTED BY OUR OWN GURUS!
:wub:
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Who was this?
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Live like a lotus in the pond. Uneffected of your environment. The above in bold sounds like manmat to me.
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:wub:
:cool: :wub: :nihungsmile: :e: :nihungsmile:
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just my opinion, other may see diferently...
I think english is probably the hardest language for any thing to be translated into. English is such a nix up of other languages, the result is alot of confusion. some of the older languages are more easlity translated into.
BTW tkkookar, is sikhitothemax the correct translation of the SGGS??
sikhitothemax is using Sant SIngh Khalsa's translation, which can also be foudn on Sikhnet.com, searchgurbani.com, sikhs.org, and srigranth.org
srigranth.org also has the translation by manmohan Singh (SGPC), which I hear is better, noneltheless includes many errors as well
the BEST bet is Prof Sahib Singh's explainations. They just rock it :wub:
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Help
in POLITICS | LIFESTYLE
Posted
www.ikirtan.com has some kirtan by Bhai Balbir Singh Raagi,
and www.sikhifm.com & Dhurkibani.com has some kirtan by Bhai Harjinder Singh, if you lok thorughly.
I hear there's a website coming out soon completly dedicated to Raag Kirtan, with only Kirtan in the perscribed Raag :wub: