dallysingh101

I support this 100% without a shadow of the doubt. We still have many chamcheys.

All the way to the top of our society...

This is conjecture on my part, but he was probably a bad 'un before he was born as Prithi Chand, but requested birth in Guru Ji's home as a chance to atone for previous mistakes, so he must've had a few redeeming qualities.

Who did he come into contact with that tipped him over the edge? If we are to assume he and Guru Arjan Dev Ji were raised together and spent most of their lives together as children and young adults, why did one go off towards the dark side and the other developed the qualities that would lead him to be chosen as Guru? There has to be something more and deeper than environment IMO.

Might have been sibling rivalry?

Any apna or apnee that haven't realised what Brits are by now (hypocrite, naturally deceptive and intrinsically politically manipulative without ethics), is brain-dead.

I'm not talking about particular individuals here but how their society interacts with other communities on a cultural and political level.

These people are NOT what they try and represent on the outside.

Princess mononoke

Spirited away

guardian of the spirit

Attack on titan

Fate zero

Is any of these on the Internet? Youtube?

Yeah, I am a Muslim.

We do not have a 'religious requirement to groom around'.

Her presence on a Sikh matromonial site in itself is haraam and sinful.

Again, more evidence of you having your head buried in the sand: I've met tons of Sikh females who've complained about Muslim men approaching them via Sikh matrimonial sites.

You are either playing dumb or SERIOUSLY naive??

^^^

That's the thing about modern life and the media. It's like there are a thousand unseen snakes subtly at work trying to insidiously brain-screw everyone with all manner of psychological tricks. Goray are number one at this with their media where they try to make it look like we should all just succumb to our romantic whims (as love conquers all) and anyone who is virodh these things is some evil, oppressive, backwards evil step mother type.

We are at fault too with the absolutely crap media we produce, you get 95% of films from Panjab and they are some blatant penducentric, casteist buckwaas with about as much depth as a puddle after a short storm.

That's what we are looking at right now, where we are a pretty unsophisticated bunch on the receiving end of well financed and often sophisticated attempts to capture our hearts and minds. It's a conversion by stealth if you will and it starts YOUNG and doesn't stop as we are bombarded by the messages throughout our lives.

That being said, I'm still going to prefer stuff like The wire, Breaking Bad and The Sopranos over the stuff our own community produces for the moment.

I'm not going to take the preaching in your post with any concern, but you advocate a minority representing a majority?

So I guess Sikhism would fall under the same banner, don't even try and tell me there aren't Sikhs who have missed the message.

You must be in cloud cuckoo land trying to lecture Sikhs given what's going on in the Islamic world right now.

Don't you think your time would be better spent trying to humanise some of your brothers in faith instead? You know the ones doing things like beheadings, grooming, burning people alive, pedophilia and mass rape etc. etc.

I'm going to be brutally frank, I don't really care what a community does within its own ranks; people have the right to live like savages if they desire - but when it starts to spilling out and effecting us, we've got a right to point it out.

People like you are part of the problem with the way you like to act as if everything is hunky-dory whilst all manner of evil crap is going on under your nose. Maybe if a few more people were a bit more reflective and critical in your community certain things we complain about here wouldn't be so rampant?

but the comparisons of her being made by several individuals to 100% bona fide slappers are uncalled for.

Fair point.

You know what:

I just saw that video now. From some of the other posts I read previously I thought it was going to be some potentially violent, tense situation. A kick-off about to happen. Geezers, I've had more tense rows with my brothers than that! Some of you must have been SERIOUSLY molly-coddled growing up to think that was 'harrowing' etc.

The most respect to Jugraj for acting like a bundha.

Some of you brothers out there need to get out in the big bad world a bit more! [Not the sisters though - we all know how that is likely to end up.....]

Probably an apnee married to a Mr. Javeed?

I disagree. Left to their own devices evil men will do evil things. But if you want a good man to do an evil thing, you need religion.

There's this friend of mine, a sometimes Muslim. He's a better person than me in many respects. But at the bidding of a certain book conjured up in the ancient Arabian wilderness, this good, kind man put his newborn son through the wicked ordeal of having his foreskin sliced off. At the behest of this very same book, he also enjoys the flesh of animals who have been bled to death with prayers mumbled over their thrashing, broken bodies. Such awful things would never have occurred to men if not for the 'godly' telling them that these cruelties were in fact sacred duties. For instance, nobody ever thought to ritually chuck somebody into a volcano until they were told that this would appease some bloody-handed deity.

So I am not surprised that peaceful religious individuals can transform into nutty murderers in an instant. Religion (or some religions) has the power to do that.

I disagree, culture can be as powerful a cause for this behaviour as religion. Truth is that the izzat culture that crosses asian/arabic religious boundaries plays a big part in these things happening. Not necessarily religion. We all know that there have been a few cases of apnay doing this - especially with the old 'let's go back home for a holiday' rouse.

I'm not excusing what he did. It is plain wrong, but in the context of the dramatic loss of respect and face that parents of promiscuous daughters face, I'm not entirely shocked that occasionally some fathers snap and do crazy things in a moment of extreme mental anguish and torment and extreme disequilibrium.

What about the alternative? Allowing promiscuity. Who truly would want to do that for their young daughter? White fathers might be cool with that but I guarantee in your heart of hearts everyone one of us here would be horrified and possibly driven half mad if our own daughter were doing this.

So no, I don't think he was necessarily an evil man (I don't know his history) but I don't discount the fact that he could be an average Joe in a seriously unenviable position who snapped and did the worse thing he possibly could have when it happened.

There is a particular paradox that affects some girls:

They can be very empowered and balshy when it comes to their brothers or fathers or even another concerned Sikh male (people that are no threat to them). But they become very submissive when they are approached by a groomer (someone who is a danger to them).

This is an ugly truth that a lot of Sikh females don't like to face up to.

But it is strange that you were more keen to mention the girl's faults rather than her father.

And it's singhni miripiri.

Look at some point, when it comes to our own communities problem we have to move away from representing the problem as one of complete helplessness on the part of our females . We have to empower the girls to realise that they have power to limit their chances of being groomed by their actions. We have to make them fully understand that taking prudent courses of action that limit their potential exposure to the warped people doing this is the best course, and not to fall for the amateur romantics that groomers use.

I think the events of the past week show us that much of what we thought of as wonderfull and quality 'German' was actually an illusion. Its nice to know that deep down, under the false veneer, they're as rubbish and inept as the rest of us.

If you are talking about the German police I disagree. They have a LONG WAY to go before they match the longstanding idiocy of the British police who pretty much allowed mass pedophilia and grooming to take place all over the vlath with their downplaying and incompetence. Then there is the bumbling way they've failed to handle the pedos running about in Westminister - covering it up.

They've played a BIG part in allowing a culture of sexual abuse to manifest in this country through their inaction.

Hounslow area. I think this trend has sort of come when refugees from the country of Afganistan came in. They do have odd habits. They have meat in their shops for lunch and they sit and eat from one plate.

Nah, it was common way before they came. In East London a certain Panjabi Sikh family dominated the booze supply business (they were famous for it), I worked at one of their warehouses as a teenager and sometimes used to help on deliveries all over the south-east.

I met hordes of Panjabi apnay that were like we are describing (although they stopped short of playing Gurbani whilst I was ever around). In the 80s and 90s Sikh Panjabis dominated the Offy trade until new comers like Turks and whatnot came in. A lot of apnay made their fortunes through supplying sharaab and tamaco. Even when I was at uni, a fair few apnay's families owned offys.

Don't get it twisted.

All the shops in our areas sell alcohol and they play shabad kirtan and sukhmani sahib as well in their shops. They hand out cigarettes as well to their customers. The shopkeepers are sikh guys with turban and open dhari. This is from where we get our normal supplies of yoghurt, bread and milk too.

In our area there must be about 4 or 5 shops practicing this.

Whereabouts are you, if you don't mind me asking?

I know it is completely wrong if an amritdhari person is even touching sharab/beer/wines.

No one sent that memo:

There are a fair few Amritdharis and keshdhari Sikhs that own Off Licences (liquor store) in the UK.

One of the weirdest things I've witnessed was on Southall Broadway on Vasaikhi when I went into an offy to get my young nephew a drink during a nagar kirtan and saw an old Amritdhari baba sitting behind the counter watching a kirtan program on TV surrounded by alcohol and sitting behind a rack of cigarettes. The incongruity was disorientating for me.

Wow.

I don't care about what you're saying about this guy...But you really have no idea about Islam or Muslims do you?

Like actually no idea.

I think we are a lot more clued up than you think mate. I think a lot of Muslims really have no idea about other Muslims and see everything through rose tinted glasses when it comes to their own, then they act shocked when hordes of Muslims get exposed for mass paedophilia and stuff for example - because they were in denial about it taking place in the first place.

I mean if you can miss all that going on under your nose, what else are you oblivious too?

And as for Bengali's end of the day when it comes to their forefather were soldiers of Indian princely states that allied with the British east india company army to attack and invade the Sikh empire and the punjab. So we should have very little sympathy for anything that is done to them, call it karma.

I hear what you are saying but what about our own karma for being central pawns in the Brit imperialist war machine subsequent to annexation? I mean getting involved in dubious things like the Opium wars against China etc. and generally being the 'muscle' of goray in their international escapades.

I hope more and more people wake up about the realities of the British colonisation of Panjab. You get some really ignorant brothers and sisters who seem to perceive it as some sort of Godsend for Sikhs because the Brits cleverly manipulated the situation and used Panjabi valour for their own selfish agenda by massaging our ego - and then they suddenly sodded off, leaving us to fend for ourselves once things got nasty.

Who needs enemies with friends like this?

I'm just saying we need to be a bit more politically astute than this and not perpetuate the sycophancy to goray that too many apnay do. In the end when people have finished using us, they will toss us to the winds.

no one is exgagerating anything it does happen. Theres plenty of sikh bois that have muslim gfs just they dont gloat about it. In this case she ran away and with a sikh bf I doubt very much she still follows that faith.

Fair point about apnay not gloating about it like the other side. I'd say in this case it might be that both of them were of a secular type of mind rather than religious?

Thing with our lot is that we don't generally get all excited about converts, and from my experiences most apnay families would be weird about having their son marry a sulli. But, yes, exceptions aren't impossible.

so what we defend when attacked

I agree we should defend and attack but exaggerating things like in the above story (to try and make us feel better) is poor job of defense in my opinion. Seems desperate to be honest.

Just because she run off with a Sikh lover doesn't make her a Sikh convert..... duhhhh

I think because apneean have converted or have been pimped by sullay, some lesser brained brothers and sisters really push the boat to show sullian are converting this way too, to rub it in Abdul's face. It's some sort of comical t1t-for-tat thing they've conjured up in their brain.

Paks been doing this for a LONG time. I think for two reasons:

Spying - (seeing what is going on in our community, are we onto their bull? How strong and united are we? Who are our leaders? What are we preaching?)

Sexual purposes - to find some gullible girl to use and abuse, or even to make Sikh male friends who will lead them to such girls.

I remember seeing this bloke and girl in a London Sikh society meeting in the late 90s and later that week I saw them giving Islamic literature out on the streets. So it's nothing new, we are just waking up to it now.

I don't think we should be welcoming to such people myself. Frankly I don't trust them.

You have to understand Islamic belief/prophecies to clock this: they believe there is going to be a mass genocide (in war) against Muslims just prior to the end of the world. All paks I grew up with (a lot of them!) would be talking about this from young, so they genuinely believe it. They have a number of signs they say indicate these times being near - I'm pretty sure with all the kussmaan going on in the Islamic world, many think those times are going to happen within their lifetimes or at least in the next generation or two.

Plus, whether they admit it or not, many Paks are humiliated by their historic defeat at the hands of the Khalsa/Sikhs who they see as mostly thicko, scruffy, unsophisticated pendus, who love dancing around and drinking (which makes it even more embarrassing) and whose girls are hoes.

I believe some of them are keeping an extra eye on us and using females as a route to weaken and demoralise the community so that we aren't strong enough to challenge them ever again. They have learned from history and are applying new strategies. Plus I think another factor may be that they are p1ssed off with sardars marrying Muslim girls during Maharajah Ranjit Singh's time which in an Islamic context is a humiliation.

These days if anyone wants to become a Sikh, they can use the internet and books. Under today's volatile circumstances I would expect some sullay to make false conversions for the above purposes. This is not anything new either, when you look at old literature sometimes you find Sikhs took extra steps to guard against infiltration (especially as having spies could be lethal in terms of being setup for an ambush). They did things like making them eat pork prior to initiation (not that I am suggesting this! I just making the point that people had to deal with this in the past too).