Sukhvirk1976
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Posts posted by Sukhvirk1976
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22 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:
First of all there is no such thing as hinduism. There are different religions practices lumped under it. Like agoris (they use dead bodies) yogis, pandits. All have different practices. They all do share some basic principles. Like reincarnation etc.
So you could say that sikhi is a dharmic religion as is hinduism and buddhism. Similar to how christianity, islam, and judaism is abrahamic religion. But even tho christianity has same texts as judaism. It is considered a diff religion. Same as sikhi.
I think that is a very considered response.. Although in my mind I usually distinguish between sikhi and Sikhism, the latter being the drive to create a formalised institutional religion.. And sikhi being the broader philosophical approach..?
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On 11/21/2018 at 1:42 AM, Guest Anaah Kaanah said:
Those that are Islamophiles can hardly be expected to admit such truths.
It's bizarre why so many act as apologists for the perpetrators of Genocide.
The British Genocide of Sikhs is hardly ever mentioned by most Sikhs nowadays.
The Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs is hardly mentioned by Sikhs either despite 20% of the Sikh population being killed there.
Obviously the minority that is historically aware does recognise the Vada Ghallughara in which Muslims killed 90% of Sikhs.
However, after 1977 (a mere 30years after 1947) to all intents and purposes the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs was forgotten.
Similarly, a great many people forgot the devastation and almost 100year Genocide inflicted by the East India Company and British Empire upon Sikhs and subsequently enlisted with them for purely financial gain similar to nominal Sikhs enlisting with Punjab Police between 1985-1995. Obviously greater numbers of Muslim Punjabi's and Hindu's generally fought for the British (with Sikhs only being a small minority of their forces) but that there are thousands of pounds wasted by UK Sikhs on statues (that ought to have been 100% funded by the Government) whilst Sikh children in Punjab go hungry, go uneducated and die for lack of health treatment is an utter disgrace. Even the original Nihangs of Akali Phula Singh Ji's time were neutered by the British after 1849 into a degenerate bunch of drug takers that fought on behalf of the Hindu Mahants during the Gurdwara Reform Movement, for the 1897 Sodhak Committee and working against the Panth on behalf of Indira Gandhi in 1984.
The number of Sikhs killed in the British Genocide of Sikhs actually exceeds anything Congress and Indira Gandhi inflicted.
As for 1984 it's crystal clear that the majority do not remember it today. If the British Genocide of Sikhs and the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs which inflicted far far worse casualties (particularly as a higher percentage of the smaller Sikh population back in those times) were so easily and quickly forgotten then it's hardly any surprise. But that Panj Piare in every pind along with their allies are not launching a dharam yudh against female infanticide, the drugs menace, illiteracy, poverty, cancer, environmental disaster, matrimonial apartheid and failing to unite every pind under a single united Gurdwara is the worst aspect of 1984 being forgotten about.
Meaningless slogans year after year in the Diaspora which achieve nothing and take our eyes off the mainly self-inflicted silent Genocide that we are a party to are becoming part of the problem. The Pakistani's have received tens of billions of development aid from the British Government since 1984.
Yet Sikhs in the UK have not made any concrete efforts to demand that an equal number of billions be invested by the UK into helping poor Sikhs in Punjab and across India as part of a long awaited yet to be received apology for the UK Government's collusion with Indira Gandhi and Congress in the 1980's with Sikh taxpayers money.
White people who are not racist are not our enemy. We need to enlist more and more of them like GurjantGnostic as allies.
Similarly ordinary Hindu's who can be tomorrow's sehajdhari and potential Amritdhari Sikhs are not part of the problem.
We need to incorporate these so-called falsely classified Hindu's (defined as so by RSS) as new members of the Sikh Panth.
But before that, if we can't get our own house in order ourselves (ie one Gurdwara per pind only for starters) then continued Sikh apathy towards the Congress Genocide of Sikhs, the Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs and the British Genocide of Sikhs as well as earlier (and far more devastating in percentage terms) Holocausts inflicted upon the Sikh Qaum by Muslims are par for the course.
Seriously what kind of "Sikh" enjoys holidays to Pakistan or Arabia (and flies on Muslim airlines) given what they think of Sikhs!?
What kind of community tolerates female infanticide and matrimonial apartheid given what happened to our Qaum in 1984!?
The answer is a community that is heading towards minority status in east Punjab in a few years unless we start to do something about it very fast by welcoming as much new blood into Sikh Panth as possible regardless of whether that new blood is Hindu Punjabi, Bihari, Tamil, white, black or even from the same background as Guru ka Sikh Bhai Mardana Ji's parents.
We must grow the numbers of the Sikh Panth and educate our younger generations or else (perish)!
Just to clarify are you suggesting that I am a islamophile?
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@BhForce what do you make of that?
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2 hours ago, BhForce said:
Sure, I'd be willing to accept what you said as a meaningful interpretation of the line.
The problem is the literal translation quoted by @Sukhvirk1976 , which seems to imply that the writer of the Shabad is beholden to two different entities, Allah and Ram (as normally defined). And, secondly, that that somehow negates what I quoted about "Na hum Hindu na Musalman". As if we're supposed to believe in both Allah and Ram (traditionally defined) and therefore we are both Hindu and Muslim. Nutty.
I asked Sukhvirk to give his own interpretation, but he has failed to reply.
Hi there.. Firstly my original response to you was really quite specific.. By raising the question about your omission of the very next line of the shabd I was highlighting how problematic your assertion is. You decontextualised the shabd it would be very easy for someone who doesn't know the complexity and sophistication of gurbani to see your views as dogmatic..
Note the structure of the bani, and the use of identity labels used in the first verse but transcendental terms used in the second.. I am neither Hindu nor Muslim..
And then as a counterpoint uses terms from each traditions cosmology Allah raam my body and soul. The very core of nondualism. That if you obsess over one approach over another you end up missing the point. Both philosophical traditions have merit but because identity politics and blind following, it is a critique of blind following..
Interestingly your next quote actually reaffirms that.. Hindu is blind, turkoo (or Muslim) has one eye the core of nondualism. That all and one are what makes the whole.. The 'Hindu' is blind because he is blinded by the scope of avatars and thinks them to be gods rather than metaphorical expression of characteristics of akaal. The Muslim has one eye because he doesn't recognise the pluralistic nature of akaal.. Is dogmatic, places importance in a simplistic understanding where he sees avatars as polytheism.. Both are wedded to identity rather than actually understanding.. That like body and soul (duality which are symbiotic) make up the whole which is advaita..
I categorically reject that the shabd suggests it is beholden to two entities.. I believe it is both revelatory and a warning to us about not getting bogged down in identity politics.. Otherwise we will become blind or myopic
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On 11/16/2018 at 7:57 AM, BhForce said:
What point are you trying to make?
Do you think that Gurbani contradicts itself?
On the one hand it says that we are not Hindus (or Muslims).
Given the fact that that line says "my body and breath belong to Allah and Raam", do you think that that means that, here, Allah and Ram are two distinct gods, and they hold a 50-50 percent stake in your body and breath?
All that the line means is that Guru ji is saying that there's only one God, call him Allah or Ram, whatever. And he owns my body and breath.
In no sense does the line negate the earlier line that we are neither Muslims or Hindus.
I don't think gurbani contradicts itself at all.. I think you contradicted yourself and was selective in your choice of quotes
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4 hours ago, Singh559 said:
They're not Buddhists or Hindus in any meaningful sense of the definition. It's just a hip way of poorly appropriating an aesthetic to seem "hella spiritual".
Main weakpoints of Hinduism and Buddhism that Sikhi doesn't have is the conscious formalization of SIkhi as a religious Panth. That's why they are falling apart in the diaspora.
The problem with Sikhs right now is losing our numbers due to accelerated modernization with an already stunted Sikh population. The big religions are already huge, but they can "afford" to lose the masses that they are. If we lose what we have, it will be tough to recover in the future due to the trend of getting absorbed into westernism.I think part of the reason we are losing people as you put it is because the most expressive form of sikhi in the west apes abrahamic religions in trying to be dogmatists and absolutist.. We forget that sikhi is Tisarpanth. It belongs to everyone
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On 9/28/2018 at 8:24 PM, TigerForce1 said:
I have come to the realisation that no Panthic Political Party in Punjab is allowed to grow to a level where it can resolve or control its own affairs. There is no democracy in Punjab as the party’s that are given a platform will need to play to the strings of Delhi. The stance which Delhi or the Hindus have towards Sikhs is very hostile and dishonest.
So what makes you think it will be any better? What guarantees or constitutional checks and balances in a independent panjab state would be put in place to ensure that it was representative of the people?
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3 minutes ago, namespace said:
Should we be proud of being part of the British empire which worked against us and the Guru's wishes? I'm not so much asking the question but making it known the panth will have to struggle with this and slavery during the sikh empire for as long as we breath.
The memorial has nothing to do with how we feel about the British empire.. It stands as a monument recognising the contribution made and the lives lost of soldiers.. It's a disgrace to the memory of our ancestors that someone would desecrate it
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29 minutes ago, S1ngh said:How you come to the most devious type of conclusion? Trying to take advantage of the sad situation and playing the panday style deflection games - bravo! Rather have the community focus on the racist culprits, you chose community fight with each other.
Fir kehanday under moderation teh kiyon paeya.
Bro look at what was written on the memorial.. Doesn't look like it would be written by white racists
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On 11/7/2018 at 5:16 AM, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:
OHH ! that evil 'Sikhism' vs the pious good'ol 'Sikhi' debate again. Changing names doesn't change anything man.
Agreed Singh Sabha and the passages of time have def changed sikhi , and we truly today are following a flavor of Sikhism perhaps quite different from 200 yrs ago. For one , raag vidya is NON EXISTENT ! I am surprised no one is speaking about that in this debate. Something so important that the entire SGGS is divided into passaged based on Raags and we have not an iota of what it is and how its to be sung ! As the classic joke among sikh circles goes, Harmonium is not old enough .So first step in reviving ancient gurmat sangeet. For that we might need help of non-sikh sources who actually know what Dhanasri is , What sorath is , What Ramkalee is and how they sing it and then try to transpose that music pattern onto gurbani . If it fits well on the shabads, you know you got it right !
Secondly , As many hindus themselves have said "Gurbani is an approximation of hindu vedantic thought" and to an extent they're correct.
Now if you go by this viewpoint , you will have to justify why you need a separate identity , since you're following the same tenets of Karma, Dharma, Rebirth , Three gunas (sato , rajo , tamo) and the 5-element body and the other nuances of Indic thought . So why don't we put you as a "sect" of Sanatan Dharam . You have any reply on that ?!!
There must be certain nuances of Sikhi matt and vedantic matt, ELSE I don't see a point as to why Sikhism exists as a separate religion. Now what those nuances are , you can ONLY tell after going through BOTH vedantic (10 mukhya upanishads) and gurbani (SGGS) thought process and compare their differences.
EDIT ---
There are four mahavaaks from each of the 4 vedas that is the "juice" of the learning from that particular veda or the Upanishad actually linked to that veda .
RigVed : "Prajnanam Brahm" (Intellect is Brahm)
YajurVed : "Aham Brahmasmi" (I am Brahm)
SamVed : "Tat tvam asi" (you are that) (same stuff as "mann tu jot saroop hai")
AtharvaVed : "Ayam Atma Brahm" (the atma is brahm)
So apparently this is juice of all vedic thoughts churned over 3000 yr period !
One ashtapadi of Sukhmani sahib has more gyaan than this !
Raag vidya and gurbani sangeet traditions are being promoted look into the work of bhai baldeep singh ji and the Anad foundation
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On 10/29/2018 at 4:50 AM, BhForce said:
Yeah, it's just some random fellow named "Nanak" that said we're neither Hindus or Muslims, that Hindus are blind, and that they are wrong from the start.
Thank God that "Guru Guest Bhujang ji" came along to set us straight.
Dhanvaad.
ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥
Naa Ham Hindhoo N Musalamaan ||
I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.
ਭੈਰਉ (ਮਃ ੫) (੩) ੪:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੩੬ ਪੰ. ੧੧
Raag Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Devhttps://www.searchgurbani.com/guru-granth-sahib/shabad/4205/line/10
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ੍ਹਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ ॥
Hindhoo Annhaa Thurakoo Kaanaa ||
The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye.
ਗੋਂਡ (ਭ. ਨਾਮਦੇਵ) (੭) ੪:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੮੭੫ ਪੰ. ੨
Raag Bilaaval Gond Bhagat Namdevhttps://www.searchgurbani.com/guru-granth-sahib/ang/875
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਮੂਲੇ ਭੂਲੇ ਅਖੁਟੀ ਜਾਂਹੀ ॥
Hindhoo Moolae Bhoolae Akhuttee Jaanhee ||
The Hindus have erred from the start; they are going the wrong way.
ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੪) (੨੦) ਸ. (੧) ੨:੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੫੫੬ ਪੰ. ੯
Raag Bihaagrhaa Guru Nanak DevWhy did you miss out this?
ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੇ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਪਰਾਨ ॥੪॥
Aleh Raam Kae Pindd Paraan ||4||
My body and breath of life belong to Allah - to Raam - the God of both. ||4||
ਭੈਰਉ (ਮਃ ੫) (੩) ੪:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੩੬ ਪੰ. ੧੨
Raag Bhaira-o Guru Arjan Dev
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4 hours ago, puzzled said:
I find her story really sad. To think that Sikhs are living in that country too. Europe is more than happy to flood itself with millions of muslim refugees and give special status to people like malala whats her name who was blown up by terrorists, but when it comes to non muslims being tortured in muslim countries the west is silent! it really amazes me!
How do you just make this stuff up.. When you say Europe being flooded by millions of Muslim refugees you are wrong by saying millions.. Secondly, you seem to not understand the issue of Asia bibi, she actually had the case against her thrown out. She has applied for asylum and would likely be given it. The problem is Subsequently after her court case she has been given a ban on travelling..
In the 80s and 90s thousands of Sikhs from India were given asylum in the West. In recent years all Sikhs from Afghanistan have been given asylum in international countries.. Ironically afghani Sikhs who have established communities in the UK experience more discrimination from the panjabi sikh community than many others..
It's a bit irresponsible of you to just spread nonsense
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5 hours ago, puzzled said:
so basically for these women fashion is priority not anand karaj? perhaps they should get married at Selfridges or Westfield then
Who are you to make such assumptions?
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48 minutes ago, puzzled said:
So why don't Sikh brides cover their heads? they normally have their buns covered but not their heads. whats the reason behind this? if i walked into gurdwara with my patka slipping and hanging of my bun i would probably get death stares, People would probably feel like tossing me out of the window. But why do Sikh brides get away with it? a few years back during the summer i wore a cap to the gurdwara, i soon had 5 singhs standing behind me not looking very amused. i was told to take it off and wear a ramal. why the double F,ing standards?
heres a quick google search., Why were none of these women dragged out or told to cover their heads before guru granth sahib ji ? you can hardly call any of the below a head covering.
The double standards are really starting to annoy me
These are just some examples.. I've never seen it much
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On 11/1/2018 at 5:33 PM, RajKaregaKhalsa1 said:
Just if you wanted to know. He has released an apology video and has gone Pesh. He has accepted his mistake.
What exactly is he apologising about? And if he is a nobody then how come these SAS guys are there?
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On 10/5/2018 at 3:11 PM, jkvlondon said:
...logically how do you take back a promise to the Almighty?
What promise?
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On 10/19/2018 at 8:23 PM, jkvlondon said:
you try to diminish My Guru ji to the same level as manmukhs with the countless defects in faith and character they have ....who wouldn't be ?
Please explain how I have diminished anyone?
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1 hour ago, RajKaregaKhalsa1 said:
Well Guru Gobind Singh was told by Waheguru just that he has been made his son so go and spread righteousness in the world. Now if your going to doubt Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh ji you are basically doubting Waheguru. Us lot ( maybe not you ) haven't escaped this cycle yet so we wouldn't be able to understand
I never spoke about guru gobind singh ji..
You speak about 'Waheguru' in terms of like a semitic 'god'?
Where did 'Waheguru' speak to guru gobind singh ji? Do you mean in bachittar Natak /dasam Granth?
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1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:
you try to diminish My Guru ji to the same level as manmukhs with the countless defects in faith and character they have ....who wouldn't be ?
I'm not diminishing anyone.. Guru nanak is my guru as well and for me the perfect soul..
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2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:
you didn't understand, an enlightened person is app parmeshvar ' har , har jan ek hai bib bichar kacch nahin ' parmeshvar doesn't have kaamna , or any defects of the maya influenced person so to equate such a person to the unenlightened mayadriven manmukhs is foolish and frankly insulting . This doesn't mean that people cannot go from manmukh to mukht just don't equate the states ..
Please explain further as to why you are insulted?
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You need to read no further than the very first symbol of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to understand that
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On 9/15/2018 at 9:46 PM, jkvlondon said:
you are the first person I've ever heard trying to equate app parmeshvar to us lowly mortals ...honestly stop please ..
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Don't focus on the finger! Or you'll miss all the heavenly glory
You can do bhangra all over the place, bani teaches us very simply
All is 1
Not external but within.. Come correct or don't come at all
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17 hours ago, GuestSingh said:
took you 24 hours just to write this after finding my post amusing? why so long?
if by ironic you mean hypocritical then yes it does appear so given 1/2 recent posts but my point included myself and it always will..as mentioned in a couple of my old posts..you're welcome to search..not afraid to admit to still learning..
now can you say the same?
My posts are monitored so they take a while to get published. I'm a learner,
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On 10/2/2018 at 3:21 PM, GuestSingh said:
these people cant even keep full rehit and follow hukamname yet they feel they know enough of the 'basics' to preach their own version of 'Sikhi' which would not only be false and weak but actually capable of causing confusion if researched further..
a lot of discipline is already being lost/disappearing, which is why we're seeing too many part-time, wishy-washy Sikhs these days..
maybe they should just worry and focus on making themselves stronger in faith first..
How ironic
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Being scientific and anti religious is something that aligns very naturally with sikh philosophy..?