NaamTiharoJoJape

https://sikhnationalarchives.com/book/read/creation-of-the-khalsa-as-described-in-guru-kian-sakhian/#mode/1up

This is a list of 35 singhs (panj mukte, and additional 30 listed who took pahul amongst which Bhai Mani Singh ji are first) after panj pyare singh sahiban 

Many names are recognized, as the 5 sons of Bhai Mani Singh ji, Bhai Chaupai Rai (I think is same one who Hazuri Rehitnama is creditted to and that rehitnama is said to have been drafted by the panj mukte) Bhai Ram Koer ji who I think was from lineage of Baba Budha Sahib ji, and I think there can be more stuff that can be found attributed to these personnel, as well as Deep Chand Sodhi, a cousin of Maharaj, the son of Baba Suraj Mal, grandson of Chheiven Paatshah maharaj. And theres Pandit Kirpaa Ram Datt, shaheed at Chamkaur di garhi and the head of kashmiri pandits who came with benti to Nauve Satguru Gareeb nivaaj 

Many of these were probably enrolled in Guru Maharajs personal elite guard of 25 hajuri singhs as well 

2 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Hmm five sets of five. What are the chances each of the Panj Pyare had a set of Panj Singhs assigned to them?

It's a very scalable command structure. 

If continued once more you have 25 sets of five and that's a further 125 Singhs. 

I'd keep the third tier Panj Singhs in groups of 25 still, so you'd have five elements of 30 Singhs serving the Panj Pyare. 

For a total small inner Fauj of 155 Singhs. 

That's nothing to take lightly. Five of the most trusted Gursikhs with five elements of thirty Singhs to dispatch?

We could recreate this over and over. 

If you dispatch thirty, to a location, they could easily train 155 recruits, and leave a functioning 155 Singh Fauj behind them as they leave. Each of the 25 Singhs in the Element would train Panj Singhs, and the Panj Pyare of the Element train the local selected top tier 30. 

Think of that delhi rape scenario. 30 Singhs come and stay for a month and leave 155 Singhs behind. Who continue to train. 

Not to mention there is always an senior amongst the panj pyare 

Typically the oldest singh or something like that, as Bhai Daya Singh ji had been in service of Maharaj for over 20 years by the time of khalsa sirjana and is even praised in bachitar natak for his valour in battle of bhangani, and he was sort of a private secretary or diwan of maharaj that sometimes shy sikhs would ask questions through (like how they would earlier ask mata gujri ji or mama kirpaal chand) and Baba Binod Singh ji became pramukh amongst the pyare sent along with Baba banda Singh (either because as oral lore tells us, he was blessed command of dal khalsa by guru maharaj to establish Budha Dal, because that is just hows things played out as he was most senior and strategic and bhai daya singh, bhai dharam singh had done sachkhand ghaman at abchal nagar) as he was from exalted lineage of Guru Angad Dev ji Maharaj and respected as such 

There is a another set of pyare significant in history during nwabi parsang of Baba kapur singh, dont remember all of the names except Budh Singh ancestor of ranjit singh, bhai karam singh and maybe Baba deep singh ji were amongst them too (which if case must have been the head, there were also five jathas organized by Nawab kapur singh at first and misl shaheeda was the central and most elite commando force under baba deep singh ji as its first one of the five mentioned by sardar rattan singh bhangu in order, and even later during creation of misla, only one has survived to date and that is the misl of shaheeds that is regarded as the core of tarna dal), and bhai mani singh ji (pujari at sri harmandar sahib at the time) was one amongst panj pyare at sanchar of vaisakhi when Baba kapur singh took pahul 

and another during conquest of dehli but they arent named well but im sure sardar jassa singh ahluwalia must have been the central pyara

There is always one mukh senior pyare amongst the panj at sanchars too who instructs the khalsa on rehit etc. To add

It seems like a pretty neatly organized machine organized by dasam gurudev pita, needs a little oil to the engine in modern times with sarbat khalsa 

46 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Hmm five sets of five. What are the chances each of the Panj Pyare had a set of Panj Singhs assigned to them?

It's a very scalable command structure. 

If continued once more you have 25 sets of five and that's a further 125 Singhs. 

I'd keep the third tier Panj Singhs in groups of 25 still, so you'd have five elements of 30 Singhs serving the Panj Pyare. 

For a total small inner Fauj of 155 Singhs. 

That's nothing to take lightly. Five of the most trusted Gursikhs with five elements of thirty Singhs to dispatch?

We could recreate this over and over. 

If you dispatch thirty, to a location, they could easily train 155 recruits, and leave a functioning 155 Singh Fauj behind them as they leave. Each of the 25 Singhs in the Element would train Panj Singhs, and the Panj Pyare of the Element train the local selected top tier 30. 

Think of that delhi rape scenario. 30 Singhs come and stay for a month and leave 155 Singhs behind. Who continue to train. 

And that is how the khalsa spreads

Didnt Baba banda Singh travel with 25 singhs under command of panj pyare (Baba binod singh, Kahn Singh, Ran Singh, etc. cant remember other two whether Baba baaj singh or fateh singh were pyare) 

I think if im not wrong, those days of Baba Banda Bahadur, five singhs were stationed at every village/town too, which makes sense in case of an morcha by an jarnail, an armed force could be mustered up while traveling like with how thousands joined the jatha of Akali Baba Deep Singh ji Amar shaheed and Shaheed baba Naudh Singh ji enroute to sachkhand sri darbar sahib 

On 4/23/2021 at 11:50 AM, intrigued said:

I think Khalsa mool mantar may clarify your questions but idk for sure. I think they only mention 5 mukte tho

On 4/23/2021 at 2:15 PM, intrigued said:

Here's a link explaining the Khalsa Mool Mantar - https://www.sikhnet.com/news/mul-mantra-khalsa

Dr. Kamalroop Singh does mention 25 mukte but not by name but only briefly refers to gurbilas patshahi dasvin (chibber) 

Wish I can find the source where i first read the 25 singhs but i think i mqy have found the excerpt from gurbilas 

You can spot names like Ram Singh, Kasmiri Singh, (Roopa?), Bhai Bachitr Singh, Bhai Uday Singh, Kirpa Singh, Sanmukh Singh, Gurmukh Singh

I am not too sure but the list of 25 i remember might have included bhai mani singh and bhai ajab singh, ajaib singh, anik singh too 

Bhai ram singh of the panj mutke is mentioned here, rest would be tahail singh, bhai isher singh, bhai fateh singh, bhai deva singh 

Really wish i knew but i can only go back about 5 to 6 generations on both sides of my family 

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

F**k these mfs! Apnay being armed goes way back! From Twarikh Guru Khalsa - Giani Gian Singh

ਪਿੱਛੇ ਦਿਖਾਏ ਇਲਮਾਂ, ਹੁਨਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬਨਾਵਟ ਸਮਝਣ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਅਸੀਂ ਅਪਣੇ ਨੇਤ੍ਰੀ ਦੇਖੀ ਵਾਰਤਾ ਦੱਸਦੇ ਹਾਂ।ਇਲਮ ਤੀਰੰਦਾਜ਼ੀ ਤੇ ਲੱਕੜੀ ਬਾਜ਼ੀ ਦਾ ਥੋੜ੍ਹੇ ਹੀ ਬਰਸ ਹੋਏ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵਿਚਅਜੇਹਾ ਚਰਚਾ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਜਿਸਨੂੰ ਸੁਣਕੇ ਅਨੇਕ ਅੰਗ੍ਰੇਜ਼ੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੇ ਹੋਏ ਗੱਭਰੂ ਅਚਰਜ ਮਨਣਗੇ। ਸਰਦਾਰ ਅਮਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਮਜੀਠੀਆ, ਬੁੱਧ ਸਿੰਘ, ਵਸਾਵਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਸੰਧਾ ਵਾਲੀਏ ਵਗ਼ੈਰਾ ਅਨੇਕ ਸਰਦਾਰ ਕੜਾਹੇ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਦੀ ਤੀਰ ਨਿਕਾਲ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਸਨ ਤੇ ਜਿੱਥੇ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਓਥੇ ਹੀ ਬਾਣ ਮਾਰਦੇ। ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਸਕਾ ਭਤੀਜਾ ਏਸ ਤਵਾਰੀਖ ਦੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਦਾ ਬਾਬਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਰਗਾਹਾਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ‘ਸ਼ਬਦ ਬੇਧ’ ਅਰਥਾਤ ਅੰਧੇਰੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਿੱਥੋਂ ਆਵਾਜ਼ ਆਂਵਦੀ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਯਾ ਦੇਹ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਚੂਕ ਤੀਰ ਮਾਰਦਾ। ਏਹ ਬਾਤ ਕਨਖਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਨੇਕ ਆਦਮੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਹੋਈ ਸੁਣਾਯਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਓਹ ਓਥੇ ਹੀ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਸਨ। ਡੇਰਾ ਭੀ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦਾ ਓਥੇ ਮਸ਼ਹੂਰ ਹੈ। ਅਨੇਕ ਦਰੱਖਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਓਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਤੀਰ ਕੱਢੇ ਸਨ ਅਤੇ ਲੱਕੜੀ ਬਾਜ਼ੀ ਵਾਲੇ ਅਸਾਂ ਏਥੋਂ ਤੱਕ ਦੇਖੇ ਹਨ ਜੋ ਮੰਜੇ ਹੇਠੋਂ ਕਾਂਉ ਨੂੰ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਾ ਜਾਣ ਦੇਣਾ। ਬਾਕੀ ਜੰਗ ਦਾ ਸਾਮਾਨ ਫੁਲਾਦੀ ਸੰਜੋਆਂ ਪੇਟੀ ਚਿਰਾਨੇ ਟੋਪ ਇਤਨੇਭਾਰੇ ਅਸਾਂ ਦੇਖੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੁਣ ਦੇ ਗੱਭਰੂ ਮਸਾਂ ਚੁੱਕਣ ਤੇ ਓਹ ਸਿੰਘ ਓਦੂੰ ਦੂਣੇ ਭਾਰੇ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸੰਜੋਆਂ ਪਹਿਨ ਕੇ ਜੰਗ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਜਾਂ ਭਾਂਜ ਪੈਂਦੀ ਤਾਂ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਸੰਜੋਆਂ ਸਮੇਤ ਬੀਸ-ਬੀਸਕੋਹ ਨੱਠੇ ਚਲੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ। ਬਾਕੀ ਜੇ ਲੁੱਟ ਦਾ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਮਣ ਦੋ ਮਣ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਚਾਲੀ-ਚਾਲੀ ਕੋਹ ਪਹੁੰਚ ਕੇ ਦਮ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਸਨ।

 

For those who consider the previously described skills and knowledge to be fictitious, I’ll now give an account of what I have witnessed with my very own eyes. It’s only been a few years since the arts of archery and stick fighting were discussed in such a way that should [today's] young British-educated men have heard it, they would've considered it astounding. Sardars like Amar Singh Majittia, Buddh Singh, Wasava Singh Sandawalia and many other chieftains could shoot arrows straight through [metal] cauldrons; their arrows striking whichever targets they desired. Bhai Mani Singh ji’s nephew, [who was] the author of this historical document's forefather [called] Baba Dargaha Singh ji could 'pierce the word' meaning that even in the dark, they could accurately shoot an arrow into the mouth or body of anyone who made a sound.  

In the town of Kankhal these matters are spoken of by many men and they will inform you of as much because they [the previously mentioned sardars] used to go there. Even their camp is well known at that place. There, they shot arrows straight through many trees and I have seen stick fighters who have reached a point where they can keep a crow trapped underneath a bed. I’ve seen other materials of war like steel chainmail, belts, body armour and helmets that were so heavy that the strapping youth of today would just about be able to pick them up and those Singhs would go to war wielding and wearing weaponry and chainmail that was twice as heavy or they would undergo forced marches of approximately 50 kilometres (20 koh) with such weaponry and armour. They would only stop to rest after reaching destinations roughly 100 kilometres away and that too carrying any looted materials that came to hand.

 

ਭਰੋਸਾ ਹੈ ਹੁਣ ਦੇ ਜਵਾਨ ਏਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਤਾਕਤਾਂ ਤੇ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਵਿੱਦਿਆ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਹੀ ਸੱਚ ਮੰਨਣ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਏਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਓਹ ਕਮਾਣਾਂ ਦੇਖੀਆਂ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ । ਚਿੱਲੇ ਕੀ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਉਣ? ਏਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਇਲਮ ਤੇ ਹੁਨਰ ਆਪਣੇ ਸਮੇਂ ਸਿਰ ਉਨੱਤੀ ਪਰ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਮਿਟ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ । ਸੰਮਤ ੧੯੧੪ ਬਿਕ੍ਰਮੀ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਤੀਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਦੇ ਭੱਥੇ ਭਰੇ ਹੋਏ ਕਮਾਨਾਂ, ਬੰਦੂਕਾਂ ਤੋੜੇਦਾਰਾਂਤੇ ਪੱਥਰ ਕਲਾਂ ਤਲਵਾਰਾਂ, ਨੇਜ਼ੇ, ਬਰਛੀਆਂ, ਸਾਂਗਾਂ, ਕਟਾਰ ਪੇਸ਼ਕਬਜ਼, ਤਮੰਚੇ, ਪਸਤੌਲ ਢਾਲਾਂ ਆਦਿਕ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸੰਜੋਇ ਆਦਿਕ ਬਖਤਰ ਘਰ ਘਰ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਸੇ । ਸਭ ਲੋਕ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰਵਿੱਦ੍ਯਾ ਸਿੱਖਦੇ ਸਿਖਾਂਵਦੇ ਘਰ ਬੈਠੇ ਹੀ ਪੱਕੇ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ ਬਣੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਸੇ ।I

I believe that the young, strapping lads of today may have trouble accepting such strength and martial skills to be a reality because they haven't even seen those bows, let alone string one. In this fashion, many arts and skills - after reaching a highly developed stage become extinct at the hands of time. Prior to 1914 Bikram there were quivers packed with many varieties of arrows, guns, matchlocks, stone-cutting sabres, javelins, spears and pikes. Coats of mail and armoury, as well as weaponry such as punch daggers, Afghani stilettos, revolvers, pistols, shields and so forth were kept in each and every home. All the people would be learning or teaching the art of weaponry, and even whilst seated within their own homes they remained as true soldiers.

 

its completely retarded how most of those indian nationalists refuse to accept the fact that khalsa has historically armed themselves with ram janga firearms and so did our guru sahiban, our own people become very astonished at the fact that our gurus had such shastr 

its like they think of khalsa as a bunch of talwar baazigars like they show in "gatka" shows in India 

15 hours ago, 5aaban said:

Some alternatives of connecting with Panjabi culture that don't involve Bhangra 

• Learning to read, write and speak Panjabi properly
• Horse riding 
• Learning traditional Panjabi-Phulkari embroidery (for females)
• Reading Panjabi poetry and literature 
• Learning about the social history of Panjab 
• Travelling to Panjab, visiting historical monuments and cultural museums  
• Learning to make Panjabi food 

making punjabi food is a big one fam, im tryna learn to cook so i dont starve on my own 

need those practical skills , we cant be tyaar bar tyaar if we cant even feed ourselves 

we need a forum for books on sikh politics and spirituality and for teekas, granths, etc.

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'm one of them. I've seen a lot of that generation keep the flag alive. Many of the older lot (to me) were apolitical. The younger lot don't seem much to sing and dance about either. Homosexuality is off the scale, as well as hard drug addiction. The whole jut casteism thing has NEVER been this prevalent either (which could be explained by the 'Punjabi' music and film industry). 

I don't get what you're getting at? 

Im talking bout Punjab solely, over there its been a clear slope downward that really started during the generation that grew up during the 80s and 90s which again, shows us what is to blame and can hint towards who caused all this 

its a state-induced nerf on sikhs 

34 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Agree. I just couldn't resist the irony contrasted between the guest's name and their content. Lol.  

its beyond cringe how people are creating divides

like just recently brahmgiani Baba Deep Singh ji Amar Shaheeda da janam dihara just passed and ive seen people on social media argue on misl shaheeda tarna dal vs. damdami taksal and whos mukhi they were and gradually it evolved into doubting the origins of each others sampardae/jathebandi 

even manak held akhare for kps gill didnt he? 

i dont see how one any oppose this, its pretty obvious how the govt tried to filter out sikhi from a whole generation 

just look at the people born in 70s no offense, compare them to older and younger folks 

large portion of the youth that was inclined towards sikhi had been eliminated and the rest were washed by the entertainment industry and this was on top of influx of drugs, mass exodus of more religious sikhs, and large influx of bihari immigrants (90s is around where the popular saying bout "jatta de munde kamm kar ke nhi raazi" came into being bout bhaiye taking over Panjab cuz our youth was becoming lazier and more helpless due to economic health of Panjab) 

just look at our parchariks and kathavachiks who are from the generation, how many are there? we can probably count on our fingers the ones who lived through that era in Panjab without any foreign influence (since that rules out Sant Mani Singh ji, Bhai Jagraj Singh, Giani Sukhraaj Singh, Dr. Kamalroop Singh who were UK based) 

now compare them to the generation right before them 

14 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Lol. Like...um..Nihangs there neo? Lol lol lol. Lol. Lol. 

i mean tarna dal moreso is closer to Taksal in terms of jhatka and degh 

pretty sure its optional

Baba Avtar Singh sursinghvale, Baba Nihal Singh (the Harianbela dera/hq as well not too sure though) dont chhak jhatka

Neither did Baba Kirtan Singh ji, Baba Daya Singh jee, not sure about Baba Gajjan Singh jee but I dont think they do and neither do pretty much all of the Sri Hazur Sahib sewadaars like Baba Kulwant Singh ji, Bhai Ram Singh Dhupia, Baba Jyotinder Singh or the older ones Baba Joginder Singh Moniji and neither do any of these straight up oppose jhatka however 

I really dont get the big deal about it, you do you do, if you dont then dont