Deepthinking22

Look at the hate in this one lol. And still some cowards in the community refuse to believe there is a legit problem. Look at the one at 3.03 for instance. Imagine whites going round saying stuff like this, you would be up in arms, but no, because they are black, it's ok. Jokers. This is literally one of thousands of examples, I am not kidding you.

Look at the comments in the above video, this is not such a 'small' matter as some people here and everywhere are trying their best to portray it as.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/richard-jonathan-edwin-court-appearance-1.6418890 2 Innocent Indian students shot dead in a 'random attack' by a black man.

I'd rather not mate

Sorry bro, no offense to your Nani. It was mainly the only marrying your own brown Sikhs part that didn't sit right with me but I hear where she is coming from and agree with the rest of what your Nani said. Rest of it was about your other posts, which make no sense whatsoever.

This guy a troll or what?

????????????????

The only one confusing here is you bro. Most people are baffled by your posts. I admitted my mistake in who I quoted but for anyone who is not going to get emotionally triggered by it, my points still hold true.

Sounds like you jumped off your own boat a long time ago bro, from this post and many if not all of your others?

Can you send me some links to something credible which refutes what Sowell says? I'm interested to know.

I'm gonna research Sowell more but point taken.

I'm saying this is what's causing racism to rise in their community. It's going unchecked because of this. I'm not saying people here on the forum are saying that. That rhetoric is well known and recognised. It even culminated in them trying to change the definition of racism itself! It's mad.

I see.

What, for pointing out the racism we are getting from 'sane' members of this community? Not a couple of crackheads with generational trauma? I mean you are saying you are not excusing any attacks but sometimes your responses aren't the most helpful either.

Fair point, I should probably do more research on who I quote next time. I'm still fairly new to Sowell and his writings. However, my point still stands that Sowell has important points which cannot be ignored and which DO play a part in what's going on in the Black Community and which are contributing to what we are discussing in this topic. The fact that it's coming from Sowell does not entirely and necessarily make it invalid by itself. Many others (non 'sell out' blacks) are saying this too. Not everything he is saying is incorrect even though yeah I agree, he does seem to downplay a lot of stuff and I should probably not have quoted him (I have to do more research on this btw but you are probably correct). Your last point about having some intelligent grasp of the background context of the community. This is where I sense you are implying Afro Caribbean trauma is the main cause (I may be wrong in my assumption here). What I feel people like yourself (maybe) are still missing is that the main cause of this is what I have said a couple of times in this thread i.e. the blacks cannot be racist rhetoric. This is what's causing this. It's allowing the genuine racists in their community to breed to high levels (every race has them). No accountability and no responsibility regardless of the causes. This is the crucial main part of all of it.

I don't 100 per cent agree with everything Sowell says but he raises very important points and findings which cannot be dismissed and many of which DO account for the issues slavery and racism alone are being proposed as the cause of. I admit he does seem to downplay certain things from what I have seen so far (but may be in his proper books this is covered too). I also said I agree to some extent with SinghPunjabSingh's points 1,2,3 and 4 about slavery etc affecting Afro Caribeaan Communities up until today. However, whatever issues are affecting them cannot and WILL not be used to justify or accept their behaviour to innocent ethnic minorities. It seems this was being implied. Their are also issues unrelated to Afro Caribeean trauma that are causing racism from this community the main one being Blacks being told they cannot be racist. This is allowing an unprecedented amount of 'unchecked' racist attitudes to breed in this community as all communities have their racists but no one is holding black racists to account. I'm pretty much done here tbh, not much more to be said, I will be starting a new thread on this at some point.

This SinghPunjabSingh is something else man. Too much deflection and quoting half quotes in responses going on. Allow it.

This is the issue. It's really not a few lmao! I have been aware of this issue for 2 decades and you see hundreds upon hundreds of such posts and comments all over social media. You see scores of blacks defending the racist beating of an old chinese man on youtube. Plus who has said anything about writing them off, that's your issue, you are interpreting this as some sort of weird attack against them. Do you know how many times I have seen Blacks write on youtube, twitter or wherever, 'Indians hate blacks'. 'Most of them hate us'. 'They are all white skin worshipping devils' etc. This is the toxic mindset that is endemic in significant sections of their community and if it is not challenged will only lead to more hateful attacks (it not being the only reason they are attacking us mind you). I have seen this literally hundreds if not well over a thousand times. Why does this not fire you up as much as when Punjabis are highlighting there is a racism problem coming from this community.

Well there is no surprise there, they would wouldn't they and that is precisely the problem! Having said that, there are many Blacks who are waking up to the false narrative and lies and follow and agree with Sowell. Listen. I like many others here (I'm sure) want to see the Black community throughout the world prosper (Sikhi would be great for them). But not at the expense of others and also, they cannot do this without confronting and fixing their flaws. Any logical, mature non biased Black person reading through this would realise what we are trying to highlight and many would actually agree (thankfully more of these types are rising up, not enough yet though sadly). They would not see it as an attack and be 'put off Sikhi' which you claim is your main concern. You are going well out of your way to defend nefarious elements in the community more than many Black people would themselves. It's a bit dubious tbh.

''Nobody has ever said that you don't need to do that in a democratic society. All I understand is being said is let the Police catch the perpetrators and the justice system heavily punish them and that against the backdrop of Patrick Lyoya's killing by the Police (video below) we should be cautious about letting certain elements hijack these unfortunate despicable attacks to setback wider community relations and Parchaar of Sikhi.'' If that happens, it happens. There is nothing we can do about it apart from confront it when and if it happens (the certain elements hijacking thing). It in no way means we should keep quiet about an increasingly dangerous mindset and behaviour from the said community. 'How can a minority of Punjabi's who are racist even complain about racism when they participate in it themselves?' What an absolutely ridiculous response! I agree, if a racist experiences racism then there is not much they can complain about lol. But are you saying innocent Punjabis who are racially abused have no right to complain because a minority of Punajbis who are not even known to them exhibit racist beliefs? Get the hell out of here! Unless you are implying 'ALL' Punjabis are racist? You do know your comment can be totally flipped the other way right and replace Punjabis with Blacks right? But it is such a stupid thing to say in the context of what we are talking about that I or no logical non biased person would do it. Hardly surprising in the US given that they were the second biggest community in the States until relatively recently. So now you are admitting it and that it's not limited to a 'couple of crackheads with mental issues'? Also, convenient how you didn't give an excuse as to why they are also the largest perpetrators of racial violence in the UK where South Asians outnumber them. My point was that since African Americans are the biggest victims of racial attacks in the US and that white Trump supporters are responsible for most of the attacks against East Asians why are two incidents that the Police have not established the motivation behind being used to seemingly present that African Americans are the main problem when it comes to Donald Trump and his supporters (who are overwhelmingly white) attacks upon east Asians? Attacks on East Asians and other ethnic minorities by Black racists has been going on well before Trump came on to the scene politically. Go into East Asian neighbourhoods throughout the US and they will tell you this is not a new problem. Yes, Covid has caused an upsurge in the violent racist attacks against them but it has been going on for decades and a 'disproportionate amount of the attackers' have been Black. Again, you omit facts. At least one of the Richmond Hill attacks has been established as a hate crime (the Black attackers racially abused the two Sikhs verbally while beating them). How can I be fobbing off these murders of elderly Chinese folks by mostly white attackers when I wholeheartedly condemn Trump supporters for their violence against East Asians? Where did you jump to that extrapolation from? Because you made light of it by comparing it to a couple of slaps and saying there are bigger issues to be dealt with which ironically the bigger issue according to you being the people who are causing the hate, the hate they receive is more important in confronting than the hate they are dispensing. If you look at the videos and the news reports, it is not mostly white attackers! Even if it was (which it is not), Blacks are statistically disproportionately represented in these attacks. We all know about White racism and it is always being fought, confronted and challenged, the point of this thread is to highlight there is Black racism too which keeps getting swept under the carpet. That is why it is being highlighted.

No that was not the central point, but yes as you stated, as you see it. You are hypersensitive to any criticism of said community and take it as an attack. How on Earth are you inferring I am suggesting moral support for African Diasporas should decrease on account of the points being made??? Again, you are taking it as an attack. Yes the majority of them probably are not racist but it doesn't mean there is not a problem. And yes Altab Ali's murderer was mixed race this is a fact stop trying to change history! By saying Somali muslims despise West Indians as slaves are you not doing exactly what you are accusing people on this forum as doing? Why are you not saying 'some' Somali Muslims?

SinghPunjabSingh, I said I agreed with your points 1,2,3 and 4. I agree with some of it but not totally. If you really want to open your mind to what's really going on you need to listen to some stuff from Thomas Sowell (he is Black himself btw).

Well we are not going to highlight it's a small issue that needs to be swept under the rug. We are going to highlight that the Black community and their apologists need to take this seriously rather than deflecting and defending behaviour that a significant (not majority), but significant subsection of their communities are letting unchecked racist attitudes foster and breed which is culminating in attacks on and murders of innocent people of other ethnic backgrounds. What you say about Punjabis being as racist is a typical damaging response that serves no purpose in addressing what is being highlighted. Indian racism to blacks is a thing. However, you don't see Indians attacking and being racist to Blacks in the West as much as you do the other way round. I told you, official government stats show blacks are the second largest perpetrators of racial violence in both the US and UK. Also, I am going to go into depth why Asian racism to Blacks is so overrated and misinterpreted anyway. But I haven't got time for that on this thread and will leave it for my other thread that I am going to start soon. Again, what on Earth has highlighting that African Americans are the biggest victims of racial attacks in the US got to do with the Stop Asian Hate point? We have BLM for that. But what we are talking about here is the Asian Hate and how a disproportionate amount of the perpetrators are Black. About your Genocide against Sikhs analogy. You are fobbing off murders of elderly Chinese men and women and countless beatings as a couple of slaps? You parents should be ashamed of you. Your points 1,2,3 and 4. Believe me, I understand and agree with all of that. I am no newbie to this. The crux of the matter that you are missing is that every single community and race has it's racists. Whites, Asians, Blacks and Browns. No one including Blacks are an exception! When you tell a whole group of people that they can't be racist because of what they have gone through or whatever, you are letting the genuine racists in that community breed and foster to dangerous levels. This is now why we have dangerous levels of real racists in this community. No one is spreading hate here. Don't even know why this needs to be explained. I would say our job as Sikhs is to highlight and confront any injustice even when and where there is an uncomfortable truth.