DSD

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Hi, I'm not amrit-dhari or anything, but wanted to know what the religious stance is on meat. My Dad is a proper Singh and he doesn't eat meat or eggs. I was a vegetarian for 12 years, but started eating meat again around 6 months ago. My dad actually says that although he doesn't eat meat himself, it's not against Sikhism to eat meat. Also, a friend of mine ate a big-mac and said it's not against sikhism to eat meat, and the no-beef thing is hindu religion, nothing to do with sikhs, so sikhs can eat beef too... Is this true?

The reason I come on the net is that no-one knows me or her here, so while I'm putting personal stuff here, no-one knows who we are. I/She could be anyone. I can't talk about this to anyone in real life.

Harbhajan does trim his dari, and it's been obvious for years that he does. I think he's dating a Hindu model too.

Thanks, but I just wish she'd have more respect for herself and others (if not me). Don't get me wrong, she has alot going for her, and she is a beautiful, kind, loving person, but sometimes she just doesn't think about her actions, and then she gets over-defensive and kicks off. I find it easier to vent my anger/hurt online anonymously.

_K_, when she first told me about that, I was angry. I have been mocked by many people for getting to this age and never giving in to the temptation of women. My dream was always that me and my wife would only know what certain things are like with each other, and no-one else. I couldn't believe she had been stupid enough to drink that much and let that happen. I forgave her for shattering my life dream, knowing that she could hardly remember anything about it, (she was graphic enough to say that if she hadn't been bleeding, she wouldn't have known). That made it easier to forgive, as she technically didn't know what it was like to be with another man. Before I forgave her, I cussed her down like I've never cussed anyone before in my life, it was so bad, I called her all kinds of disgusting names, yet she still stood by me. She had spoken to someone she trusted about her ordeal for the first time, and got that response. I was so guilty, I asked her how I could make it up. She asked me to promise to never bring that up again, so I promised. The thing that's been posted about alcoholism will only strengthen her argument, as she says she only drinks one or two glasses of red wine with her meal, and that's only about once every 3-4 weeks. That article says that's good for you, so it doesn't help me. I just don't want people to see her doing this and getting it back to my parents. Her parents deserve behzti, mines don't.

You're right about the 'sticking with her' bit, but totally wrong about the bit about me knowing what she was like. When I agreed to marry her, I never dreamed a girl like her could be into drinking and have made such a huge mistake in her past. That hit me like a fist in the stomach much later. Also, I'm not naive, I've seen life and know what some girls are like, but would not have expected it from her. Even if it's her own fault for drinking, she can't be blamed for being raped. The guy obviously wasn't drunk, as he remembered to take precautions, he gained her trust after dating her for a year, and was the same caste as us. My anger comes from the fact that she still drinks, and still with other guys. She might say she hasn't been drunk since then, but what if the other guys get drunk and try it on with her? Man I wish she could see how stupid she is at times, but instead, it's not her it's me who's 'backward' and 'should have married a freshie'.

Firstly, I'm sorry about the misunderstanding, I myself am not a proper Singh, I have cut hair and shave, but I can't stand drinking culture. I know about the evils of drink, and she should know far better than anyone. Secondly, again it wasn't his idea. He is strict and only believes in arranged marriage. My parents would have been happy for me to have a love marriage (within caste), but I couldn't find a girl I liked who was Jatt, so had to opt for arranged. This girl works 5 doors away from my parents and they always used to go on about her for 2 years, they thought she was gold (they still do), then my mum asked her to meet me, and she agreed after seeing my picture. She said she could only see me for an hour though as she didn't want to get caught by her dad. We agreed to get married after that as she seemed down to earth (sidhi-saadhi) to me, and I probably seemed like a laid back bandar type to her. Then her mum met my mum and dad and she set up a series of lies and told the father-in-law that they had met in my shop, and been discussing kids marriages and set us up. When I went to her house and met her dad for the first time, he thought I was meeting his daughter for the first time too, and as far as he knows, to this day, that is the only time I've met her. He was specific and said we shouldn't talk on the phone, text, or meet until the wedding. That is shocking to me. In my extended family, the men drink, my Dad used to, but he quit. None of my aunties drink except for one we suspect of drinking, and she's a widow. We also suspect some of my cousin sisters drink, but they hide it. Women drinking is a shameful thing in my family (I'm quite equal though, I don't approve of men drinking either). Hopefully she will, but I think she'll just do what she did with her dad, and do it on the sly. I can't believe her mum covers it up, she's older than my mum and has been in this country less time than my mum, she should be more strict, instead she covers up her own kids to her husband, sometimes I wish she knew her daughter had been raped, then maybe that would knock some common sense into her. If they're going to drink, they shouldn't wear a pagh. I do things at times that aren't ideal for a sikh. I swear, I eat fish now and then, I have a tattoo, so I don't feel worthy to wear a pagh, how can they?

Yes I'm the same guy. As far as I'm concerned, she's my wife (though it's 10 weeks until we're married). I can't get out of it, I said before that I promised her Dad I wouldn't bail out (he doesn't know about the drinking etc), and both he and my Dad have spent thousands of pounds that they worked hard for. This was the case even before I found out about the other thing. She says she wouldn't drink in front of our kids, but she and her sisters drank in front of her nephew (her excuse is that he was just 1 years old at the time). It's difficult to reason with her on the phone, and we're not allowed to meet up, so can't talk then. The situation is, my Dad is a veggie, non-drinker who prays properly, has full beard pagh etc, her Dad is clean shaven, drinks, eats meat, and says any man who doesn't drink/eat meat (ie: usually me) is not a real man. Despite this, my dad is less strict on my sisters than hers is on her and her sisters. Her dad expects her home straight after work and never lets her leave the house. When that bad thing happened, he was always working so she could see the guy (she thought she was going to marry). She is not loose in that sense, she trusted a guy she thought she would be spending her life with, and was burned big time, she swears on her own life that had she been sober, future marriage plans or not, she wouldn't have given it up to that guy. I'm just hoping things change after marriage. The stupid part is, her firm is owned by Singhs, why do they have xmas parties etc, and why do they all take people to licensed premises?

Trust me, I know what you're feeling, but things do get better. It's life, you get proper depressing lows and then very good highs. I hit rock bottom recently, but things do slowly work out. Nobody's life is perfect and full of happiness/stress free. You will always have something to stress about. Just ride these hard times and wait for the good times which aren't far away.

I don't drink, my wife drinks on average once every 3 weeks. She doesn't get drunk, she knows her limits, she has at maximum 2 glasses of wine with a meal. It's p!ssed me off that she goes out with workmates now and then and drinks, because there are men there, some of them turbaned Singhs, who are also drinking, it's not a good thing. If I say anything to her, she says "They're just work colleagues", yet her sister was harrassed by a p@ki at her work, wasn't he just a colleague too? She also brings up the fact that I used to drink with girls at Uni, but this was years ago, I learnt better, and she wasn't with me then. She also had something really bad happen to her when she used to get really drunk, I posted about that here before. She says she has learnt from that not to get drunk, but why drink anyway?, and why hang around men who are drinking? (without me being there?). It got to the point where she said I should have married a 'freshie'. I don't want to treat her like a child, but how can I make her see she is wrong? (she says she's not wrong) and keep her out of danger?, I can't remind her of the bad thing that happened because she'll think I always use that to score points. I haven't told her to stop drinking, I just asked her to not drink when she goes out for meals with her work colleagues. When I'm firm, I just get accused of being 'controlling' and 'old skool'.

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The guy that said he's married a girl despite being in love with someone else. That is so saddening. I have been luckier than most because I was given the option of either finding my own wife (as long as she was the same religion, caste, etc) or having an arranged marriage. I got on with a few girls at college/Uni, but never let anything progress, because they were either different religions/castes, and there would have been no future. I prevented myself from getting to know them that way. For the last year, my parents started looking for me because I was 24 and getting on a bit. At first I was annoyed as I thought arranged marriages were for losers, but then I started to get my head around the idea. The first few girls I met were of no interest to me. Then my Ma said she'd known a girl for 2 years she thought was perfect for me, she just had no way of getting a go-between to ask her (as is traditional). Eventually, my Ma took a huge step (by her standards) and asked the girl direct. This was massive because if either of us turned each other down, it would be awkward for Ma. This girl had turned down rich, loaded guys in the past year and a half while she was looking, and my Ma knew this. We met up, hit it off, and despite a problem which I saught advice on here yesterday, we are so happy together and can't wait to get married. At the end of the day, if you have trust in your parents, they know you best, and they will know the perfect person for you. My Ma knew I'd have so much in common with my fiancee, and that even knew that she was my type looks-wise. In conclusion, I feel that there should be no debate, and both options should be available to everyone. You can find the same amounts of happiness and sadness within either.

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Your words were not harsh, your post is 99.9% the truth. I have to stress though, I was told this on the phone, and have only met her in person once since she told me. When she did tell me, she tried to make out that it was natural, bound to happen etc, as if she had no regrets. This is what made me swear on the phone etc. I'm not proud of what I did. I felt even worse when she told me the true story. I have told her countless times that I'm sorry for what I said, I didn't mean it, and I believe I can never make up for saying it. I was aware she was far more mature than me even before she told me this, which is why it threw me. I couldn't imagine her doing something stupider than anything I would do.

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I would like to thank both of you for taking the time to read through my plight and post thoughtful responses. I do genuinely hope I can get over this altogether. I think after we get married and see each other every day, and I'm able to see how lucky I am, it will disappear totally. One point raised is that she did agree to marry me, and she turned down guys richer than me etc introduced to her by her parents. She assumed I knew what she meant from day 1, and she has changed. Again, she's far from being a strict Sikh, but she knows her morals etc now and is loved by my family for being such a chirpy, nice, down to earth person. That was why it hit me hard, I couldn't imagine her being like that. Again, thanks for the help and pointing out things I couldn't see, and for giving me the religion perspective on it too...

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