MAX

Your worried about his turban? I'm worried that a Singh is associating with the BNP. Priorities, dude.

Yeesh, tell me about it :wub: @ Oh no, no, no..."the inside"? Who cares about "the inside"? It's okay to murder and discriminate and do evil things...as long as we keep réhat, right? :| Yeah, synthetic protien shakes will do that. Yeah, that's why the human appendix has been rendered near-useless, right?

I believe that the reason he is providing quotes is an attempt to disprove your proceeding statement, that "IF YOU EAT MEAT YOU ARE NOT A SIKH". Yeah, uh-huh. Say, I saw the tooth fairy last night. She told me that she was impressed at how white my teeth were as a kid and gave me a £6 bonus. What? You don't believe me?! I'm telling you that this is what happened! Full stop! :| I believe that Randip has provided evidence to the contrary. Well, that's your opinion that "it's disgusting". You are, of course, entitled to it. But I can assure you that there is nothing disgusting about the food I eat. Oh, and you don't actually know what the term "manmat" means, so I'd advise that you refrain from using it. Really? Then do tell us what that difference is. Oh, don't worry...Sikkhs did plenty of that as well. "We weep for the cry of a bird, But not for the blood of a fish. Blessed are those who have a voice." And someone with this much anger is not a Sikkh, either. "Who's your Daddy"? :wub: Aw, bless. Denial. :TH:

No, it's just that Sikkhi has already undergone its 'twisting' over a number of centuries. I'm just attempting to untie those knots I see. You obviously haven't tasted my mum's jïra chicken yet :| If we're not eating the flesh of animals, then we're eating the flesh of plants. Either way, we are killing living things to feed ourselves. This is how the world has always worked. It's called 'the food chain'. You may have heard of it... Wow. And then people wonder why we get called "Hindus". Is there any proof you can offer me that this statement is true? Or are you just making excuses - to defend what you think is a valid belief - at the expense of your own credibility. I suspect that it is the latter. Yes, that's right. I'm crazy. Me. Not the ones who worry about whether wearing elasticated underpants will send them to Hell, or those who believe that a man who lived, breathed and died as all men was some kind of self-appointed 'owner of the world'. That's not crazy at all

Yeah. An opinion. Call the cops :| But I do respect them. I thought I'd made that much clear. Just because you and I believe the Gurus to be different in their nature (i.e. mortal versus divine), that doesn't mean anyone respects them any less. And I don't believe in magic spells to make things 'happen', either. But thanks. Funny, then, how they all died. One of them even got chicken pox and died as a child. Trust me, if they weren't men and were indeed 'Divine', then their messages and actions of self-sacrifice would mean a lot less. The fact that they were men and lead by example to other men on how life should be lead is more powerful than a one-dimensional pocket toy of some dietic, Hindu-esque God. "One may read for years and for years, And spend every month of the year in reading only; And thus read all one's life, Right up to one's last breath. Of all things, a contemplative life Is really what matters; All else is the fret and fever of egoistic minds." Guru Granth Sahib Asa, p.468 To read without contemplation is dangerous. That is what many Sikkhs do; they read the texts of the Granth, mistaking deep and meditative poetic metaphors for literal and miscontrued meanings, often influenced by third parties such as gyanis or other 'authorities' on Sikkh scripture. Hence, the mind matters. But only when it's not holding on to the pride and ego of 'being Sikkh' or what people think 'being Sikkh' means, as per the instruction of those third parties. Read gurbäni with a pure heart and an untainted mind and you shall find what you seek...and it shall be greater than anything you could imagine at this time. You just have to tear open the cardboard box whose tiny peephole you are using to inform you of a much larger world than you thought existed. Hush a moment. Do you hear that? It's your heart. It speaks to you. It is the True Guru that is connected to God. Your own conscience. God has given us the tools. We just have to learn how to use them. Gurbäni can guide us. But it is only the means to an end. It's like the stabalisers you wear when learning to ride a bike. And just like when you're a kid, you don't want to let go of those stabalisers. But eventually, you do. And the rewards are greater than when you were bound by those stabalisers. You know, "free your mind" and all that lark :TH:

Patronise much?

Not a sin. Just something that detracts from virtuous living. And I'd like to know where the ego was in that statement I made. Dear Brother, the reason I come here is because I believe that there is a Truth to the words of Guru Nänak Dev Ji. I believe that his is a message that the entire world can benefit from hearing. And I believe that, much to my own sadness, the essense of what the Gurus have said has been lost. I do not believe that the Gurus were God, nor that they were 'divine' in any way. I believe that they were men. Extraordinary men, of course; but men nonetheless. They contributed to the gerat, wise texts of the Granth and forged a path made of light in a time where there was only darkness to be found. I also believe that, while human nature remains the same, the times do inevitably change. The lack of education and knowledge that plagued the Old World - thus necessitating the existence of Gurus - no longer exists. Information, knowledge, and peoples' subsequent views on morality have become increasingly sound. Secularism and democracy and unity among all peoples are encouraged as the world's highest ideals. But even with all this information, it is still possible for people to stray from virtue. This is where I believe the reading of wise texts becomes importance. It offers a way for us to channel that information and use it in a way that is constructive, if ever we are in doubt as to exactly how that happens. It can be argued that the value of the ritualistic practice of 'Sikkhi' is dated, but let there be no doubt that the essence of Nänakian philosophy is, has and will remain forever true. And that is why I am here. Indeed. But Neo awakened from the Matrix of "maya" only to be introduced to a new 'Matrix' based on dogma and religion. Only once that Matrix was also broken could Neo transcend his boundaries and proceed to 'revolutionise' the world into a better place for all life; both man and machine alike.

Singhstah: you talk as if what your saying is fact, what proof have you that says guroo sahib didnt hunt just to give mukti? And can you give me proof to the contrary? No. Because, if you could, we wouldn't be having this debate. and atlease have some resepect for Guroo sahib atleast, not Nanak, Guroo Nanak Sahib Ji "Respect for Guru Sahib" I have. It's respect for rumours and gossip that I don't have. AK47 JATHA LION: all living things have souls. a sikh cannot harm another soul. a sikh cannot eat meat. it is prohibited. learn the basics. Plants are "living things". More "living" than an egg, anyway :| Singhstah: so simple hena, yet you still get people tryin gto argue meat is ok, anyone with half a brain cell would understand its not Actually, "anyone with half a brain cell would understand" that plants are actually "living things". And it's funny you should mention "half a brain cell" since an egg has precisely that amount of genetic material, hence rendering it more 'dead' than a plant. akjforever: I admit I am an <banned word filter activated> with no knowledge about anything. I never claimed to be a scholar on this topic. You are however superior with your intellect. Sikhism is about living and breathing Gurbani, not just have discussions about it. Perhaps. But that's what this board is about. That's why you're here. All the meat eaters on the board please do me a favor and if youre gonna eat the filth, eat it, but don't use Sikhism as the reason for eating it. I've never had to "use Sikkhism as the reason for" anything. I use my God-given conscience for all life's reasoning, and look to texts whose wisdom I believe in for guidance when I need it. For example, if Sikkhism said "kill human beings", I wouldn't do it just because 'Sikkhi says so', or some equally weak-minded comment. If you just stated that you feel that morally it is ok to it and you see no problem with it then that is fine BUT don't say you eat it because Sikhi says it's ok. I eat it because it tastes good. I don't eat it often, but a spicy lamb or chicken kebab with spicey sauce and pickle is enough to make even the most seasoned vegetarian's mouth water (my vegetarian sister has admitted it on many occasions). It's natural. As long as we act responsibly and don't drive animals to extinction, it's okay. And SHOW RESPECT TO GURU SAHIB!!! It's not "Nanak", how disgracefull!! Oh, I'm afraid it is "Nänak". I use Guru sometimes, and sometimes I don't. But "Nänak" was his name. Sorry if that's offended you, but it's my choice how I wish to refer to him. And it's not like I'm calling him by something slanderous. I'm calling him by his birth name. P.S. - You talk to me of respect. But I have seen the most 'devout' gursikkhs completely disrespect the Guru's teachings...and yet they refer to him as Guru. That kind of superficial respect has never been my primary concern. Gupt Lion: were in kalyug so people are lost the world is on its head in satyug people were vegetarians and lived by truth now where in kalyug so obviously people gonna do the opposite like above post said if u gna eat it, eat it but dont say because sikhi says its ok does any 1 no any chardikala gursikhs who are meat eaters? i've personaly never heard of one? has their been a great sikh of the past that have been meat eaters? Yes, that's it. We must be lost. It's us. The common sense-users. Not the ones who shit bricks over whether or not their underpants are elasticated. Thank you, oh Enlightened Ones.

They're two sides of the same fascist coin. No-one but their own 'types' would be granted human rights.

Dangerous times. This is the BNP's method of seduction, trying to rally Hindu and Sikkh votes towards their cause. "Their cause", of course, being the favourability and superiority of the people they call the "indigenous Caucasians" of Britain. A term that actually has no real meaning, since the only people even close to being accurately classified as "indigenous Caucasians" are the Celts. And they are a group of people who have long since been mixed into the bloodlines of the Norse, French and Roman invaders that the British Isles have experienced over its long history. And thus, the term "indigenous Caucasians" has no meaning anymore. Not as far as Britain is concerned. Therefore, what their true motive is pertains to the promotion of superiority of the Caucasian race, period; indigenous or otherwise. They want to "make Britain White", as it were, forgetting that the prosperity that the British now enjoy is a result of their slanderous Imperial conquests across the globe. And then they say that it is the non-Caucasians who are 'living off' them. The BNP are racists. There is no other way to describe them. They will try and seduce Hindus and Sikkhs to their cause by any means necessary. Whether it is pandering to their sense of fear or their sense of pride, they will stop at nothing to ensure that their vision of a White Britain will come to fruition (once the Muslims are gone, who do you think they'll turn on next?). Of course, it won't really be the Asian population who will suffer. Not really. As soon as the BNP come into power, most ehtnic minorities will jet back home. In the case of the Indians and Chinese, their countries will be doing well, competing with the economy of Britain. They'll be fine. But what about the remaing "indigenous Caucasians" of whom these people proclaim to be the saviours of? The Asian community in Britain alone contributes to 10% of the country's economy. 10%!! Could you imagine what would happen if you suddenly pulled that 10% out of the country's economy? I don't think I want to. And what of this "immigration crisis"? The truth is that the only "immigration crisis" is that we don't have enough immigrants. There are literally hundreds of thousands of labour jobs that need places filled. Places that the increasingly middle class White population of Britain won't be able to provide. And that's today. Now imagine removing that immigrant population from Britain... It would be like blowing the base out of a pyramid. It's economical suicide. So, the BNP's "White Britain" agenda is not only fascist, foolish and evil...but it's also completely impractical as a political and economical implementation. They seem bound and determined to remove Asians and other non-Caucasians from the country, even at the expense of setting their economy back by half a century. There is no other conclusion except that the BNP really are the "race-haters", "thugs in suits" and "fascists" that they insist they are not. These people execute their policies of fear by sticking dog shit through the letter boxes of homes where Asian families live. They physically abuse anyone whose face they "don't like". They are the kinds of people who not only need to be kept out of power, but also need to have any political movements associated with them completely and utterly banned from existence. Hey, if they do come into power, it's the Asians they hate so much that will be okay. It's "their" country ( :| ) that's going to suffer the most.

Look at the holes in everything that you're saying. And as for "trying to get Guru Sahibs message of Naam Simran and Gurbani into us"? What do you mean "trying"? What precisely do you think is involved in that? And what exactly is your motivation for doing it? I suspect that you're response will be tragically autonomous. Not like the reflective, contemplative teachings of Nänak at all.

I'm sorry. These just sound to me like more fairy stories.

No, this is just a popular appologist's statement. And not a very well thought out one, at that. There's nothing 'mythical' about the animals he hunted (amazing what people will believe when they're told, eh? And then Sikkhs wonder why it is that people think they're just like Hindus. Self-inflicted injury. That's why.). They were hunted for game, be that for training purposes or just to kill time (pun intended :| ). Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks so. Well, I'm not exactly "glad" about any of this. I'm actually very hurt. But I'm glad to see that there are people who realise this so that we might be able to rectify these mistakes and get back to what Guru Nänak was saying. And prior to that, as well. I believe that the moment Guru Gobind Singh Ji died, his sense of objectivity and awareness of the Oneness of All died with him. It pains me to say it, but those Khalsa who went on their 'roaring rampages of revenge' undermined everything a Khalsa is supposed to stand for. I have forefathers who belong to the clan who fought on Guru Gobind Singh Ji's frontline, so believe me when I say that I more than most have to swallow my pride when I say these things. But this is the truth. And the truth ain't always pretty. Listen to this man, people. He's talking sense.

Heh...exactly :| There's twice as much genetic information in plants. Hence, plants are actually 'alive' whereas eggs are not. In a wierd way, eating eggs is 'more vegetarian' than eating your greens :wub: Such a restricted lifestyle? Guru Gobind Singh Ji hunted game and ate the meat of animals. As long as we do it responsibly, there's nothing wrong with it. It's the way of the world. We are - after all - at the top of the Earth's food chain.

It sickens me that we as human beings are capable of this. It happens because certain people believe that they are above all others who do not conform to their idea of 'the truth'. This happens because of political, sociological and religious divisions. People like to form 'teams'. And people are willing to kill for those 'teams'. But these 'teams' exist only in our head. There is only one team. All the others are fabrications of feeble minds unable to stand on their own and craving the presence of others to form a third leg for them to stand on.

Haha...oh, chill out man! He was taking the piss outta loadsa people :| I especially liked these ones: Heehee... Oh, and I missed any indication that he was a Brahmin. I'm sure it's me, so I'd be much obliged if you'd show me why you think he's a Brahmin :wub:

Does God care?

Visiting a Mosque on an educational field trip designed to encourage tolerance and understanding does not "make Islam a part of your life" :| Good stuff. Bad stuff.

Oi! Be nice to the Retarded Rocker :wub: :wub:

Muslims are like that, man :| They're really posessive about their faith, believing that no non-Muslim is allowed into their places of worship, and similarly that they will never visist places of worship belonging to other faiths. But Sikkhs don't have that problem. Lead by example. Sikkhism was grown to be a tolerant and accepting system whereby no religion was 'evil' or 'wrong' even if their paths were slightly skewed from the Truth in some way. Stride in with pride and show your fellow Muslims why it rocks to be at peace with the world and why the Sikkh philosophy is so beautiful and all-inclusive :TH: I'm sorry, but isn't anger one of the Five Thieves...? :wub: No-one can make a noble decision when they're under the influence of one of the Five Thieves :TH:

Heehee...looking forward to the antics, brotha! :wub:

As long as you are comfortable in your own personal beliefs and as long as you have faith in God that your brother will choose the right path for him as he grows up (whatever that may be), you should feel contented and satisfied. If you want to tell him about Sikkhi, then you can always talk to him about it (without forcing him, of course :| ) and let him make up his own mind. i think sikhs shudnt support any manmat activity What does that mean? that I have to make her be a Sikh? {thats manmat} Ive been with her for 7 years. Ive been a Sikh for 2. Pritam, my man: a lot of people say a lot of things. You've just gotta decide what 'thing' you believe in. If you ask for advice for anything on a public forum, you're gonna get a lot of opinions; some strange, some sane. Just have faith in your God-given capacities, brotha :TH:

Heehee... :| Much obliged :fight: Whenever you have a moment of comedic inspiration, it's always best to get it down on paper...great to see you've got a sense of humour about it :TH: Fox just read that script and they've sent me an offer to write a screenplay about the adventures of MAX and Pritam Singh Khalsa...we go around the world throwing kheer at people whilst teaching them spirituality and making them laugh at the same time :wub: Be careful what you wish for... :fight: Well, if I throw something around the house it shouldn't really matter since it's all mäya after all :fight:

Oh, I assure you it is :wub: Everything is One. Of course it is. But if the world really was that unimportant, then why is there such an importance placed on kirt karo and on the realm of miri? It's because the world as it exists in our subjective experience is relevant, even though we should keep in mind the fundamental truth of its true nature. They say that angels and deities envy humans. The Gods wish to be Men; blessed is the life of a Truthful Man. Heh...glad you enjoyed it :wub: Indeed. To remain calm, contented and blissful, but doing so whilst still enjoying life's beauties - beauties created by the One Lord Himself - is the ultimate way to live. Guru Nanak is saying that such a "Yoga" or "exercise" of the mind is the most fulfilling and the most worthwhile.

Man, I'd love to go to a party with you. I can just imagine it: MAX and PRITAM SINGH KHALSA are at a party. It's a wedding of a family friend and they're sitting around one of those cheap tables covered with cheap table cloth/tracing paper and is filled with cheap drinks and cheap snacks like cheap crisps and cola bottles, etc. MAX How are you enjoying the party? The food's good, huh? PRITAM SINGH KHALSA The party is but a creation of Waheguru, and so it the food. Both must be respected. MAX Uh...yeah, sure, but are you enjoying it? PRITAM SINGH KHALSA I enjoy all of Waheguru's creations because the are Waheguru's creations. It is all Waheguru. MAX Okay, that's great dude...but is the food tasty? PRITAM SINGH KHALSA Taste is but a sensation of mäya. It means nothing. MAX is mildly frustrated, but he keeps his cool. He tries one more time. MAX Okay, dude...I know that God, like, created everything. I know that you're really 'into' God and all that, but the fact is that God created all of this for us to experience. You sound so...dead. You wanna be dead? Well don't worry about that because you're gonna be dead one day, anyway. Just chill for a sec and do me this one favour, okay? Tell me, do you like the food? PRITAM SINGH KHALSA The food...is...Wahe... MAX hurls his kheer in PRITAM SINGH KHALSA's face and storms out of the party. PRITAM SINGH KHALSA licks some of the kheer off his face. PRITAM SINGH KHALSA Mm...that tastes good! :TH: