jassa

What makes you so sure?

This is an extract from the works of Bhai Rattan Singh Bhangoo from Prachin Panth Parkash Granth. Bhai Vir Singh also mentions this in Dasmesh Chamatkar.

Panth Parkash is widely accepted so I dont know how you can make such a statement without a reason behind it.

Its not from Panth parkash nor any other good source for years i have been reading it on internet but not in any printed from. Couple of years on this very forum someone claimed its from a book kept at aligarh university or something.

Prachin Panth parkash has a different view. Till now no granth/book/sakhi written any form of print media from a known author has written that panj peyare were beheaded in front of sangat. Taksals Nihang singh jathebandis Takhts everyone says that they were taken in tent behind the stage.

When u finish up with 1st pothi prepare degh before starting with second one.

Part 1/8 and do listen all 8

I have two questions which are genuine i mean no disrespect.

It says not to wear red, why is that?

In those years the armies had specific colors ... Green flags and dress was used by muslim armies in battle fields and red flags and dresses were used by hindu rajputs of north india ... and khalsa used blue ...

Colors dont have spiritual meaning but it was to physically differentiate whose who

How come your about to take amrit when u are unclear about mareyada ... i would say dont rush ... seriously dont rush ... you still need do to more sangat then rushing into taking paul ...

Do you think from 1699 to say 1799 all sikhs who took Amrit were read 5 Banis and the full Mool Mantra?

Yes i agree with that and thats how it should i m myself a "kattar nihang/hazuri mareyada follower"

The simple question is, when did the 3 bania and shortened Mool Mantra come in?

With the creation of SGPC and gurdwara sudhar lehar

Did some very very educated Sikhs change 5 bania to 3 bania? Or did Guru Gobind Singh Ji say it was 3 bania from 1699 to say 1708?

I cant say what Guru Gobind Singh ji said as many jathebandis who claim to follow mareyada unchanged is not following the same mareyada as well Nihangs, Taksalis, Nirmales, Sevapanthis ... all can track their linage from dasmesh pita but yet mareyada is different.

And when panthic mareyada was set up at akaltakth sahib all jathebandis were a part of it and till every one passed it was not called panthic mareyada and it took 12 years to compile it with suggestions from every jathebandi including taksals ...

More over when sant jarnail singh ji was at akal takth sahib each wednesday amrit was prepared by taksali singh but with akal takths mareyada it can be confirmed by geyani thakur singh patiala walle ... and i dont think sant ji ever spoke a word against panthic mareyada or told anyone to take amrit again ...

You can't blame Sikhs for wanting to follow the same Maryada as that which was followed in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time, or even from 1699 to 1799?

I am not blaming anyone even i have helped a couple of sikhs on this forum to retake amrit from dal panth ... i was just pointing the approach ... you want to take amrit from certain people its good but it doesnt mean that you last amrit sanchar was just mitha paani thats what i felt reading the very first post ...

We should have respect for all mareyada ... and i feel it matters more how much rehat and mareyada you keep then which rehat and mareyada you keep ... I feel mareyada is a discipline which would increase your love for god ...

In my eyes greatest warrior was Sant Bhindrawalle who followed taksali mareyada

Maskeen ji was greatest scholar who always preachered akal takths mareyada

Baba nand Singh ji was the greatest sant who was a jhatka eater

Baba Mit singh ji was the greatest sevak of Guru sahib followed Nihang Singh mareyada

and today all 4 of them would have been sitting at same place in the charan kamal of akalpurkh.

Mareyada was different rehat was different but yet attained the same place so it cant be the difference between mareyada but the love you have for the mareyada you are following.

No one will be offended if Obama came to Harmandir Sahib and did not bow to Maharaj.

Just like queen on england wore socks inside harimander sahib

The fact he did the worship of a stone idol, is why hes being called a Hindu

Ok if thats the case so the next day if he takes part in akhand path he will a sikh again and later he goes to church and light a candle now he is Christan.

So whats your point?

My point is ----> "Hence no favoritism toward everyone." Which certain people tend to do ... negative things being said about certain people no matter what they do and vice versa...

This has nothing to do with what Manmohan the Hindu did. Maharaja Ranjit Singh treated people equally and if Ranjit Singh bowed to idols then also hes a Hindu. Hence no favoritism toward everyone. Didn't Akali Phula Singh ji punish Maharaja Ranji Singh ji for going against Gurmat?

Yup he was hindu thats why he created khalsa raj ... Moreover when akali phula singh ji was jathedar of akal takth sahib harimander sahib had many pictures of hindu devtas on the walls ... was he not aware of that ??? or he was RSS agent as well as per you ???

Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj is a leader and did he worship stone idols? NO! Letting a religion practices what they want without oppressing others is called treating them equally.

No guru ji never worshiped stones but in ZAFARMANA they called aurangzeb and themself as " idol breakers " does that mean they didnt treated all religions equal ?

So Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj in Sri Chaupai Sahib ji, was thinking small when he said i don't accept the vedas, puraanas or any other religious scripture and only through you Sri Waheguru ji, i attained you?

I always expect comments like this from you any how can you specify which tuuk are you referring to from "chaupai sahib" with meaning in here.

And before you reply to anything i just want your views on a certain thing ... just pick what you think is correct

1. Sikhism is only way to God.

2. Sikhism is one of the way to God.

No one will be offended if Obama came to Harmandir Sahib and did not bow to Maharaj.

Just like queen on england wear socks inside harimander sahib

The fact he did the worship of a stone idol, is why hes being called a Hindu

Ok if thats the case so the next day if he takes part in akhand path he will a sikh again and later he goes to church and light a candle now he is Christan.

So whats your point?

My point is ----> "Hence no favoritism toward everyone." Which certain people tend to do ... negative things being said about certain people no matter what they do and vice versa...

This has nothing to do with what Manmohan the Hindu did. Maharaja Ranjit Singh treated people equally and if Ranjit Singh bowed to idols then also hes a Hindu. Hence no favoritism toward everyone. Didn't Akali Phula Singh ji punish Maharaja Ranji Singh ji for going against Gurmat?

Yup he was hindu thats why he created khalsa raj ... Moreover when akali phula singh ji was jathedar of akal takth sahib harimander sahib had many pictures of hindu devtas on the walls ... was he not aware of that ??? or he was RSS agent as well as per you ???

Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj is a leader and did he worship stone idols? NO! Letting a religion practices what they want without oppressing others is called treating them equally.

No guru ji never worshiped stones but in ZAFARMANA

So Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj in Sri Chaupai Sahib ji, was thinking small when he said i don't accept the vedas, puraanas or any other religious scripture and only through you Sri Waheguru ji, i attained you?

I always expect comments like this from you any how can you specify which tuuk are you referring to from "chaupai sahib" with meaning in here.

@ the thread starter

being very polite i want to tell you that you are just another example of people who rush into things without proper knowledge.

1. Were you not happy when you were sitting in the darbar where guru granth sahib ji was parkashed ?

2. Were you not happy when they were pouring amrit in your head and telling you to say vaheguru ?

3. Were you not happy the next day you woke up early for nitname ?

4. Were you not happy till you realized SSPC didnt read full bani ?

And all of the sudden that amrit changed into mitha panni.

This is not good what if in future ur impressed by nihangs and will you again take amrit because they do anti clock wise parikarma of guru sahib when given amrit and after few years some other jatha and cycle goes on.

If u knew some thing is missing from very first day go ahead and take amrit but if you start feeling it the day u realized it was SGPC amrit or what ever then there is problem

It was time when my grandmother took amrit ... it was prepared at jod mele or at 4 takths only no where else ... people had to go miles and wait for sometimes years to take amrit ... but now we are going no where and amrit is amrit ... Do full path rest of you life it will take you in sharan of Guru gobind singh then taking amrit again with full path but missing you nitname ... seriously SGPC amrit Taksali amrit Nihang amrit etc is a shame for panth what about people who are looking for Gurus amrit ?

I cant write the summery what to write and what to leave but its good specially the pictures. Buy it read it follow the things you like forget the things you dont but its written in a way to make things clear then to make you more confused as many authors would do. Its has straight answers with references from history and other writings why certain things are done in nihang dals/ hazuri singhs to the point not impress upon readers more make more sales. So its to the point book with a frank approach

In sukhmani sahib its written that not only god and guru is one but his bhagats are also the same .... so difference ....

^^^^ You are wrong here ... check my old posts i had a close view on what happened ... and i m hearing this first time and that to on sikhsangat ....

it was regarding destruction of buildings by govt

force of sgpc not to do sri dasam granth sahibs parkash (jathdar nanadgarh didnt entered the darbar sahib beacause of this parkash on 300 <banned word filter activated>) ...

push from akj and taksal not to do jhatka ...

Niddar made a point with every thing against jathedar he may not stand this pressure and may change the puratan mareyada of sachkhand thats all nothing more nothing less

Amrit is not the end amrit is the starting. Dont expect to take amrit and ur changed very next morning. Ur heart is pure somewhere thats why you took amrit start with that part of heart fill it with naam simren.

My approach to problem have always been different do suppress anything inside you as it will blowout as a volcano one day. Instead start living 2 lives one with naam simren ur seva ur nitname other part with lust anger etc ... but reduce ur second life every day.

If you have problem with kaam looking at woman's face make your thought lustful look at her feet. I learned this thing from Nanak parkash granth. A person came to guru sahib with problem of lust guru sahib told dont look at the face of women but at her feet lust will be reduced. give it a try.

Dont suppress but reduce it every day dont force your self in any thing if ur week to take the pressure instead make urself strong mentally spiritually and u will be out.

The good thing is you know that you have this problem you have realized it and ur willing to find the solution when you know the problem half of it is already solved

and regarding pesh or taking amrit again i dont think so its needed as you are not indulged in any sort of sexual activity with other women

We should stop inviting Hindus, Muslims, Christian leaders to gurdwaras as well. But oh we all wanted Mr.Obama to come to Golden temple and bow.

Everyone has a political view we live in different countries we like certain leaders we dislike some. My Favt leader visiting Gurdwara great will post pics every where. The leader i hate visiting gurdwara who cares.

My Sikh leader i hate visiting gurdwara who cares visting other religious place let me post pics.

He visited Harimander sahib last year did seva in langar i dont think so there was a single picture of his on sikhsangat.

Do we know Maharaja Ranjit singh gave equal amount of gold to a hindu temple as well in jammu does that make him hindu as well? When you are a leader its your duty to see each religion each person equal.

The bigger you think faster you will grow.

Book is a very good full of information and facts.

Its in circulation only on internet like many other stuff including fake hukamnams with guru sahibs name on them etc....

In punjab no one knows about

Since 1699 no historical text ever written covers or even talks about it

Even jathedars of takths are not aware of this account

I have never heard any kathwachak talking about it or any sant mahapursh talking about such account

Lastly its claimed as i have read it over the internet to be in some book kept at aligarh university library

Here is the contact no of the university +571-2700557 talk to them there is no such book in there library which makes many things clear ...

All i m saying before circulating something claiming it to be true and we know people will have blind faith over it when we will say its an eye witness account ... we should atleast confirm where is the hard copy ... if it comes out to be fake it would be one of the biggest paap ...

01763-237086

You are lucky that u have realised the problem atleast ... many of us spend all their life without even knowing whats wrong ... you have taken the first step by looking at the problem now take the second step by solving them 1 by 1 ... dont try to solve ur problems together and within few hours ... take them one by one ... start listening to katha of maskeen ji one katha each day ... and u will learn a lot ...

Why make it jatt vs chammar ... i havent even used word jatt in my posts ??? Why do jatts feel bad when they are told the truth that majority of them in punjab are treating lower castes people even verse then done by brhamins in punjab ... its hardly to find a village in punjab today where there is a same gurdwara of jatts and chammers ... every one should give a visit back to punjab and see how many gurdwaras are there in their village and who created ... This problem is ignored for years and it has shown bad results and we are ignoreing it even today what would be the possible outcome ... because when someone says jatts the majority in punjab villages are responsible for treating lower caste peoples in village then people take it as attack on themself and as anti-jatt propoganda because they are doing it ...

and there are no vaish brhaman and shuder in sikhism ... guru sahib made us kashatriya ... every shasterdhari is a kashatriya ... thats why singh name was adopted ... char varran ek varran karau vaheguru singhan te naam jappau ... i would make four castes in one that is shasterdhari khashtriya ...

A true Ravidasi is always a Sikh of Guru Granth Sahib. Period. And if anyone is to rule it is 'Khalsa' which comprises all or no castes.

a true jatt a true ravidasia a true bhapa or anyone can never be a true sikh ...

and saying that there is no problem of caste system in sikhi is the biggest ignoreance one can have as a sikh ... jiddan kabutar billi nu dekh ke akhan band kar lainda ke koi billi nahi ayyi ohhi hall hai ... jaat paat de influnce nu sikhich dekh ke akhan band kar lao ke sikhich koi jaat paat hai hi nahi ... and if someone speaks out people call him so ur anti jatt ...

See this video and every one is free to take this video as one of the following

1.Showing the biggest problem in sikhism today and try and do something

2.Work of RSS or congress

3.Anti Jatt video

4.Ignore it

5.a fake video such things dont happen

its totaly upto us ...

how old are u and where will u be living in punjab and are u willing to live in camps outside punjab there will a free medical camp at hazzor sahib for a month but in june i m not sure but there are free medical camps often at gurpurabs in gurudwaras keep an eye on them ...

Ravidasia was a seprate faith since dacades they just made it official this year ... they just introduced this new granth rest all was there before ... they had a different nishansahib jaikare bole etc ...

lower caste people form 55 percent of current indian population which they will target and convert ... soon ravidasia would be the biggest religion of india ... with greater no even more then hindus in india ... and they will rule delhi as told in kalki avtar in sri dasam granth ...

I would guess, quite a few people may not have read Kalki Avtar in Sri Dasam Granth ji. In summary, it is prophesized in Kalki Avtar composition that sometime in future, when almost everyone is engaged in sinful acts and people do not do any act of “Dharma”, an avtar will come. That avtar will be named Kalki Avtar. He will fight the evil. He will engage in a war in which all of evil doers will be killed and a “yug” (times) of “dharma “ would be established.

I have not been able to see from which Chhand (stanza) Jassa ji has drawn the inference that in Kalki Avtar it is prophesized about Ravidasias converting all the dalits and become the rulers of Delhi. I would appreciate very much if Jassa ji can tell us by quoting the name of the Chhand (Stanza), and the line number therein from where he is drawing his inference.

Ravidasias became very active from late 1960s and 1970s on. Like some other sects (like the fake Nirankaris – though in a different way) Ravidasias have been trying to highjack the Sikh panth. First they started to say that because Bhagat Ravidas lived before Guru Nanak Dev, he was the Guru of Guru Nanak Dev , then they wanted that it should be Bhagat Ravidas who should be considered as the one who started Sikhism. When that did not happen, they started to demand that Sikhs should call Bhagat Ravidas as Guru Ravidas not Bhagat Ravidas.

I hope what Jassa ji is saying is not one of the newest thing that is being circulated by them, in the hope that many Dalit Sikhs who have not read Kalki Avtar in Sri Dasam Granth, fall for that it was prophesized in Dasam Granth that the all dalit community is going to convert to Ravidasis , so they should do that too.

ਧਰਮ ਛਤ੍ਰ ਉਤਾਰ ਕੈ ਰਨ ਛੋਰ ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਭਾਜ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਬੈਸ ਜਹਾਂ ਤਹਾਂ ਗਹਿ ਅਸਤ੍ਰ ਆਹਵ ਗਾਜ ਹੈਂ ॥

Leaving the canopies of religions, the Kshatriyas will run away from fighting, and Shudras will catch hold of weapons and arms and thunder in the battlefield

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ਨਏ ਨਿੱਤ ਮੱਤੰ ਉਠੈ ਏਕ ਏਕੰ ॥ ਕਰੈ ਨਿੱਤ ਅਨਰਥੰ ਅਨੇਕੰ ਅਨੇਕੰ ॥

The new sects will arise always and there will be great misfortunes.

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ਨਿਤ ਨਵ ਮਤ ਕਰ ਹੈਂ ਹਰਿ ਨਨੁਸਰਿ ਹੈਂ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਲੈ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੁਤਿ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ਤਜਤ ਕੁਰਾਨੈ ਅਉਰ ਹੀ ਪੈਂਡ ਬਤੈ ਹੈਂ ॥

They will always adopt new sects and without remembering the Name of the Lord, they will not have any faith in Him; forsaking the Vedas, Smritis and Quaran etc. they will adopt new path

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ਠਉਰ ਠਉਰ ਨਵ ਮਤ ਚਲੇ ਉਠਾ ਧਰਮ ਕੋ ਦੌਰ ॥ ਸੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਜਹ ਤਹ ਦੁਰ ਰਹੀ ਪਾਪ ਭਇਓ ਸਰਮੌਰ ॥

New sects will arise at various places and the impact of dharma will end; the goodness will remain concealed and the sin will dance everywhere.

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ਕਿਧੌ ਸੂਦ੍ਰ ਸੁਭਟ ਸਮਾਜ ਸੰਜੁਤ ਜੀਤ ਹੈ ਬਸੁਧਾ ਥਲੀ ॥ ਕਿਧੌ ਅੱਤ੍ਰ ਛੱਤ੍ਰ ਤਜੇ ਭਜੇ ਅਰੁ ਅਉਰ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਚਲੀ ॥

Somewhere the Shudras, bedecked with warriors will conquer the earth and somewhere the Kshatriyas, forsaking the weapons and arms, will be running hither and thither; there will be the prevalence of different types of activities.

These are just few random lines ... but if u read kalki avtar few things are very clear like shudras will be the rulers kashatriyas will give up their weapons, new religions will born every now and then, corrupt govts and sex in mind of everyone

1.99.99 ramdasia are people with low caste backgrounds

2.They form 10 - 15 percent of sikhs and 60 - 65 percent in hindus

3.SC BC and other people combined form 55 percent of indian population

4.Ramdasia religion is to combine this 55 percent not as a sect but as a religion

5.90 percent of them are not happy with sikhs as well as hindus because of the discrimination (Its a fact no matter people accept it or not in punjab villages u can see that ... few days ago a gujjar kid in bihar was beaten to death for drinking water from a tap at a hindu temple ... why would these people would love to be called as hindus and sikhs )

6.Its just a matter of few years that Ramdasia Religion would be majority in india and they will form the govt

When that did not happen, they started to demand that Sikhs should call Bhagat Ravidas as Guru Ravidas not Bhagat Ravidas.

Not true followers of bhagat ravidas existed before sikhism started ... and they treated him as GURU since ages ... we have to understand one fact very clearly ... that guru - sikh parampara existed before sikhism ... Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji is the 1st guru of sikhs but not the 1st guru in the world ... there were many gurus before them ... during bahagat ravidas jis time or bhagat kabir jis time there followers see them as guru ...

In haridwar there is a mandir of bhagat kabir ji where they are called at Satguru Kabir Shah and these sect existed since the times of bhagats ... saying that bhagat ravidas is project as Guru in 1960s is not a right statement ... he is a guru for many since the day they were born ...

and if sikhs of low castes convert to ravidasia religion is not because thats a better religion or influnced by fake material ... but because of discrimination on bases of caste by the fellow sikhs ...

There is no need to lie for them ... they can convert even by speaking truth ...

Ravidasia --- Are u happy with treatment with you in ur village gurudwara

Sikh --- No

Ravidasia --- Do u want to live with equality

Sikh --- Yes

Ravidasia --- If u leave sikhism no one will call u chammar sikh or churra sikh but a ravidasia come and convert

Sikh --- Yes why not

whats the need to lie with the conditions they are living in today ...

i visit and have darshans of baba ji every now and then they speak very less ... baba jis darshan can be done in evening around 4 or 5 or 6 everyday (if they are at the dera) ... there is no fixed time ... they do tap in there room and open the door themself once in evening so its upto them but sangat wait outside and there is no time to do bachans with them sangat make a line enter from one side do namaskar and goes out from other side ... i will get u the number by tomoro ...

Ravidasia was a seprate faith since dacades they just made it official this year ... they just introduced this new granth rest all was there before ... they had a different nishansahib jaikare bole etc ...

lower caste people form 55 percent of current indian population which they will target and convert ... soon ravidasia would be the biggest religion of india ... with greater no even more then hindus in india ... and they will rule delhi as told in kalki avtar in sri dasam granth ...