jassa

Yes he made mistakes but not to the extent you are suggesting.

Which mistakes are u talking about ??? I m not suggesting anything myself our history is suggesting this ... and if we say i dont think so it can happen that cannot change a thing which has already taken place ...

You say that he thought of himself as undefeatable, that is a subjective statement, ones undefeatable is anothers total trust in Akaal Purkh. As for some people calling him nehkalank, well he never promoted it and he never promoted himself as nehklank.

according to rattan singh bhangus panth parkash when banda bhadar visited sri harimander sahib he say a very beautiful chattar in the darbar of guru ramdas ... and he said to sikhs i wish a chatter like this would be on my head to ... at that point he was thrashed by sikhs for the first time ... covered in panth parkash ... and there are no of examples in our history that he saw himself as undefeatable ... he fought a number of times with khalsa the source of his power ... at one place baba binod singh almost killed banda bhadar but stoped by his son baaj singh baba binod singh and baaj singh were 2 out of 5 singhs send from nander by guru sahib ... baaj singh told baba binod singh towait and watch and leave banda bahadar and move to amritsar and majority joined him ... 3 of the five sikhs left banda bahadar by the time he was caught ...

we use a word today called "tat khalsa" how come this tat khalsa came into being ... tat means orignal ... sikhs which left banda bahadar and did not converted to bandai khalsa called them self tat khalsa ... if there was nothing wrong with banda bahadar why did sikhs left him and had to name themself tat khalsa ...

I do not think you can call Bandhi Khalsa a separate panth. Even now we have Bhidi Chand panthies, Damadhami Takhsal even Bhai Randhir singhs AKJ and each one has a maryadha different to the other but all are under the banner of Khalsa, so are the Bhandi Khalsa.

see here again thats what i always say dont take it personal but we make comments emotionaly without knowing about the thing which always end up how the thing should be ...

bandai khalsa even today takes charna amrit ... keeping hair is not part of rehat nor they use singh in their name ... their read bani of sikh gurus but dont keep any sikh rehat ... they wear red they dont eat meat onions garlic etc ... our main place is harimander sahib ... their place is in jammu ...

as per bandai khalsa the follwers of banda bahadar ... he never got shaheedi at delhi ... they still have a lineage oh kids of baba banda bahadar ... i write a brief history of baba banda bahadar as per his followers ... baba ji took his swas in dasam duar and mughals thought he is dead and left him to be eaten by dogs with other sikhs ... in the night baba banda bahadar got his swas back down to his naval ... and from there went to jammu state ... there he got married and two sons were born and from them to today there is an unbroken linage ....

many sikh scholars knows these facts to but they dont say anything about this ...

the thing i stated above can be confirmed and checked ...

when he proceeded towards Sirhand and the other states the Khalsa was with him.

by the time he was caught in gurdas nanagal majority of sikhs were in sri amritsar ... handful were with his so as to keep the bachans of kalgidhar pita ...

Mata Jis letter

again covered in panth parkash very clearly

He was hunted down by each and every muslim in the country, the muslims hated him and feared him in equal measure.

Farkshiyar king of delhi of that time paid him 8 lakh gold coins as statement of peace in punjab which he accepted and settled in gurdasnangal where he was caught by the same Farkshiyar king ... before that baba banda bahadar was always on a move ...

“And finally he was caught and realised the power was from guru Ji ” - He never abandoned Guru Ji in the first place and placed his faith in Him at all times. So he was caught and then in the few days before he was shaheeded, he suddenly came back into the pant? Exactly how did that happen? Thing is he never left the panth in the first place.

i think there are enough evidence to prove that for a certain period of time banda bahadar got bemukh ... open any history book and i mean any written before 1960s u can read it clearly ....

Take the example of Bhai Nand Lall Ji, do you think that he did not take amrit from Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Of course he did, so why do we not call him Bhai Nand Singh ? Even Guru Ji called him Nand Lall.

no he didnt nor did bhai khaniya ji or bhai duni ram or baba gurbaksh ram or bhai shekhu ji or raja balwant rai and list goes ... there are not few but many gursikhs from guru jis time who didnt took khande batte di paul ...

This is typical Sikh mentality. We all have faults, who doesn’t, yes he made choices which upon hindsight he could have chosen a different route but rather then look at his amazing achievements and accomplishments we focus on the negative and even diminish the great things he did. Of the above reply there are maybe two lines of his accomplishments and the rest 95% disses this pooran gursikh, the braver of braves.

This is the sikh who headed to Samana home of Sayyad Jalal ul din who had shaheeded the ninth Guru and fought a huge battle then turned towards the place where Shashl Beg and Hashal Beg lived and again meted out summary justice. He went on to and was victorious at Ghuram and Thaska and Mustafabad. Then on to Kapuri and to Sirhand. Where ever he went with Guru Jis kirpa he was victorious

Funny how we say that Banda became full of himself, yet when he minted coins the inscription he put was :

Degh O Tegh O Fateh O Nasrat-I-bedirang

Yaft az Nanak Guru Gobind Singh.

The inscription eulogised the cauldron (representing Sikh commitment to feed the poor) and the sword ( the symbol of power) and unqualified patronage as attributes bequeathed by Guru Nanak to Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

well ur judging jeevan of baba banda bahadar as its of one day but he lived for years ... yes he gave punishment to pahari rajas yes he gave punishment to wajir khan and other mughals ... he ended mughalraj and started khalsa raj ... later he gave shahhedi in delhi ... there is no doubt there is hard to find a sikh who has done so much for panth in his lifetime ... there is no doubt ... but when we speak history it should be based on facts and records not what should have happened according to me that would be my thinking based on my emotions not history ...

i always try and speak truth not just what i have heard but what i have read myself keeping aside what i think because i dont think anymore i only learn what ever it is ... read any book on baba banda bhadar written before 1960s and truth will come forward ... i would try and scan and put the panth parkash pages on banda bahdars history very soon ... and love to talk about on the bases of facts rather then emotions ...

History of banda bahadur as per our historical granths NOT any of the pro or anti banda bahadar people ... kindly both pro and anti correct me our where they think i m wrong ...

1.Banda Bahadur was a hindu veshnu sadhu who was given amrit named gurbaksh singh by guru gobind singh ji

2.He was given farrar and 5 teers by guru sahib and send to punjab with few hukams like not to get married, not to leave even a hill kingdom without punishing them, not to change mareyada of khalsa panth, not to believe muslims.

3.He won punjab defeated muslims and hill kings but one of the king in order to do friendship with sikhs offered her daughter for marriage with banda bahadar which he accepted and did not punished that reyasat from here on he started changing sooner he thought he is undefeatable some people started calling him nehkalank avtar and he started projecting himself as guru

4.He started his own panth which is even flourishing today know as bandai khalsa he stoped khande batte de paul and again started mareyada of charna amrit and sooner many sikh left him and settled him amritsar while he was in gurdasnangal and few sikhs kept moving with him only because of the bachans of kalgidhar pita that no matter what dont leave baba banda bahadar.

5.Mata ji from delhi wrote him a letter that all the matters in punjab have been settled now banda bahadar should move to patna sahib for some time there are few things to be done. he replyed that he is a veshnu sadhu he is not a sikh why should he accept mata jis command

6.He made muslims friends and finally was caught alive then he realised it was not his power but guru sahibs then he came back to the panth ...

In short he started as sikh but due to undeafetable character he got ehankar and when he was caught he saw the truth it was the power of guru gobind singh not his and died as a sikh in delhi ... This is as per our Purtan history ... In new history hindus show him as barigi sadhu who was never a sikh and sikhs show him that he was never did anything against sikhism ... People are free to believe what they like ...

rest by saying that banda bahadar never started his own panth is wrong there are loads of bandai khalsa in delhi up and jammu they have linage of gurus after banda bahadar they have their nitname and mareyada ... if we sikhs say that there was no bandai khalsa created by banda bahadar overlooking all the facts just to prove banda bahadar was a pooran sikh is just like RSS saying guru gobind singh never created khalsa overlooking all facts to prove he was a hindu ...

in order to see that banda bahadar tried to change mareyada of panth there are lots of hukamnamas written by him which use Fathe darshan instead of vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fathe ...

and one more thing his name was "gurbaksh singh" as given by guru sahib ... but on the peak of his power he changed is name to banda bahadar and made it his signature ... all his hukamnamas are sighned with this name and he left the name given by guru sahib ...

today we have a sakhi that banda bahadar was name given to him by guru sahib ...

1. why its not recorded in panth parkash naveen panth parkash suraj parkash or any other granth ...

2. why guru sahib gave him a new name when they already named him gurbaksh singh

3. why he as a sikh left a singh name and adopted bahadar name ..

He lead khalsa fauj as a sikh ... He gave his shahhedi in delhi as a sikh no doubt ... but in a certain portion of life he lived a life where he was bemukh from guru and khalsa panth ... our older history says it all because its written by bhagats and shahheds who have faith in truth our history is golden they never tried to paint it gold ... they wrote clearly that looking at abdalis fauj khalsa panth hide in jungles and how abdali wrote letter that i heard sikhs are very brave but how come just hearing my horses coming they vanished and how sukha singh came forward ... they wrote truth and only truth without thinking how would it look when people would read it ... but our new history ... take our golden history and paint it with more gold add ur own things and remove facts to make it look 24 c gold ... which are more like khaniya then our itehas ...

where do u live ???

i to had a maon problem when i was three :lol:

Taksali nitname banis length is adopted from nirmal mareyada ... sundar gutka published by various nirmale sampardawas is 99 % similar to taksali sunder gutkas ... baki puratan reharas sahib contained banis from rama avtar krishna avtar bachitar natak akal ustat and charitro pakheyan the main reason on rehras sahib is to read small parts of banis from different sections of banis .. its like stamp in budhadal gutka if u see rehras sahib + aarti aarta its covering all parts of sri dasam granth from jaap sahib to zafarnama ... its been altered with time by various sampardas and maha pursh ... so i dont think length matters here rehras sahib from guru granth sahib is fixed and same in all the bani of dasam granth is different one can adopt what ever he is willing to ... i do rehras sahib from hazuri sunder gutka ... it has more bani then taksali gutka but less bani then budhadal gutka ... i have around 25 - 30 mins to devote on rehras sahib so i found it better when i used to do rehras sahib from budhadal gutka i had to rush with words yet it took me like an hour to complete ... now i read bani at normal speed with full raas and it takes 30 mins 20 mins for rehras sahib 10 mins for aarti and 5 mins for ardas ...

ang nos are written after at many places in rehras so that one can find out this part of bani is belonged to chandi charitra or chirtro pakheyan or chabis avtar ...

No idea about ka and da question it cant be a spelling mistake for sure there must be some reason ...

have u read brham kavach this was bani read 1.25 lakh times by singhs with baba deep singh before coming to darbar sahib ... and yes there is one more bani known as mool mantar khalse da if u can add this to ur nitname ... baba joginder singh ji jathedar of budhadal has this in their nitname once i stayed with them at amritsar sahib on diwali so i morning a saw them reading it

i will vote because i look at the work to be undertaken and the expected result out then whose doing it ... even a clock without a battery shows up correct time twice a day ... Sikh Museum in US good work ...

The second and last reply to this topic should be ONLY amritdhari sikhs can be excommunicated by akal takth sahib ...

u should have told them to get u a nihang bana

^^^^ lols @ sikh posting as a tamil ... :lol: ...

this is the matter of states and center and state govt ... but like all others matters people both from sikhs and hindus who dont want the solutions make these things Hindus VS Sikhs ... anyways every river is orignated from kashmir himachal or pakistan ... these rivers only passed through punjab and hence its given a share ... punjab has its ground water keeping in mind the river water is divided ... states like rajasthan which is 90 percent dependent on river water only will be given more water share....

ask ur relatives in india do the complain about water supply ??? every house in punjab has water to bath to drink .... and read about poor states like Rajasthan Up where there is a large percentage of houses which only get 15 - 30 mins of water supply a day ... even after there bigger share ...

If punjab has more then enough water with just even 10 percent of water share ... and other states are even dry after 50 persent of share should we cry for more share or just feel happy to share ... its totaly upto us ...

http://www.rajasthantalkies.com/2009/05/water-problem-in-rajasthan-and-state.html

rajasthan currently Four towns get drinking water supply once in 96 hours, eleven such towns get once in 72 hours, and 60 towns get the supply once every alternate day. This is the situation prevailing in Rajasthan.

and this is despite of the larger share and its not a village situation they are towns ...

in patiala in we get 4 hours of water supply in morning 2 hours in noon and 4 hours in evening that makes 10 hours ... and most of the punjab districts get the same and villages get 6 hours of free electricity to pump up the water ...

Now as a sikh what should a fight for to project it as a hindu sikh problem and ask for 24 hours of water supply with a larger share for punjab ... or project it as a rich poor problem and reduce my waater level to 5 hours and pass this 5 hours of water supply to states like rajasthan ...

see the facts see the ground reality and make ur mind ...

24 hours water supply in a sikh town and once in 96 hours supply of water in a hindu town ... or 5 hours of water supply in a sikh town that could make sure once in 48 hours water supply in some hindu town ... my fellow sikhs answer me whats correct ...

these canal issues are just political ... every party will say they are giving away our water vote us will we not allow this and there alliance in some other state would be saying we are getting u water vote us we will continue it ...

Yes

Brother i never pressed on promoting meat eating but i m always against promoting vegism on the name of sikhi and better thinking ...

If we believe ever-prevalient God to exist even in animals, through the unique entity of the soul, then man would never kill animal.

We cant we see same God in plants ? Is God in Humans and Animals is different from God in plants and trees ? Every thing is God so this thing doesnt satisfy me this sense of partiality between animals and plants on the name of God ... its doesnt hold ...

We see blood coming out we see an animal trying to breath we see an animal helpless which disturbs our mind and we say this is not and hence feel pity ... we doesnt see the God's seed in the form of Atma moving out of the body ... if we see atma moving out of body which we call God in the body we would have felt same sadness and vairag when we see a big falling on the ground ... an Atma has left the body of a goat and we eat it and the same atma has left a tree and we made our doors ... and on the name of sikhi we call one accpetable and other is not ...

This is the only reason Guru Nanak sahib said ... oh religious scholars you hold your nose on seeing meat but u know nothing about spirtuality ...

See God in all you will be part of God one day See god only in animals and call it teachings of sikhi i dont think so one can get mukti ...

bhugath giaan dhaeiaa bha(n)ddaaran ghatt ghatt vaajehi naadh ||

Above it is proven that Guru Sahib is instructing us have compassion in our hearts. How can we posses this Godly-merit if we are killing the animals created by Waheguru Himself. Killing of animals neglects this merit, and rather posses the demerit of selfishness, greediness, ruthless, and clearly negligence of God Himself - Ego.

Well you are wrong here in our sikh history of 500 years we have both meat eaters and non meat eaters as puran brham geyanis who have possed this Godly-merit ... if ur statement was true then we wouldnt had even one 1 sant who ate meat ...

there is one khavat in punjab i dont remember it ful about the sants of kaum

Baba Nand Singh Pura

Baba Isher Singh (sorry i forgot)

Baba Jarnail Singh Sura

In the history of our kaum there is only one sant who was given updhi of sant by Akal Takht and he is baba Nand singh ji there is no second person in our kaum who was declared saint by Akal Takht ... they had a samdhi of 8 days non stop and it was a normal thing for them ... without food and water sitting for 8 - days and nights and remebering God its clear that they had made made spirtual wisdom their food as directed by guru granth sahib but its a well know fact that baba nand singh ji used to do jhatka and cooked meat langars ...

so i dont think with what i can see in our history that only vegis can reach God and non vegis cant ... in the end it would be only your naam simren nitname and rehat which would decide nothing else ...

I'm not sure about the logic behind what you've just said, however if you want to look at this argument in the perspective of Science, then I would also like to prove my points through "clear words." Science has proven that plants, vegetables, and other food in vegetarian diet have no nervous system. If you know what a nervous system is then you would also know that humans and animals do have a nervous system. Below I have extracted how humans and animals incur pain through the nervous system:

well i agree with ur point that animals feel pain and plants dont and i m happy to see people deciding to be vegi for this reason ...

what i said was Energy cannot be created it can only be converted ... and to get energy we need to eat energy ... if we eat non living things such as plastic sand glass metal stones ... we may fill our tummy but we will not be able to get energy from them ... because they dont had any energy ... in order to live we have to eat living things only because only living things have energy ... be it anything ... i cant even think of even one food which was never living and can give us energy to live ...

Thats why guru arjun sahib said " living beings are food of living beings"

There is not even a single form of food in this universe which is produced from non living thing ...

I would like to end my post by leaving the Sangat a notion to think about.

This thinking is creating a problem ... see we all are sikhs we have 5 takhts these 5 jathedars are guru roop in sikh kaum ... there are hardly any things today in kaum that these 5 takhts have a common yes ... and one of these things is 5 bania of amrit sanchar 4 kurehatan and 5 kakkar ...

Darshan singh challenged these 5 bania read in amrit sanchar and we call him panth dokhi ... but we are challenging these 4 kurretiyan how are we different from Darshan singh ? Someone told darshan singh to think and gave him few reasons and he came up with jaap sahib should be replaced with sukhmani sahib in amrit sanchars ... someone told us to think and we replaced kutha with maas in one of the four kurehat and start doing its parchar ... who are we if not Darshan Singhs ?

Today its sad that sikhism its rehat mareyada is just made a game of majority and minority power and powerless NOT the right and wrong ... just few years back when sant samaj was powerless nanakshai calender was passed same reasons were given then but majority was on the side of nanakshahi calender ... today sant samaj grew up as a power and same reasons were given to the same people and changes were done ... takht hazzor sahib has no say in 5 singh sahibs hukam namas were passed with head granthi of darbar sahib as 5 th singh ... after 300 saala hazzor sahib is back in power with the endless support of sangat now no hukamnama is passed without the sign of hazur sahib ...

its sad part sikh kaum is going through of numbers ... and i m sure as each one of us including is challenging amrit sanchars and rehat and guru soon there will be amrit sanchars on this planet earth by few people with no jaap sahib chaupai sahib ... its just matter of years wait and watch ...

Sorry for the long posts and spelling mistakes :|

Lohri is Not a sikh festival NOR its a brhaman festival ... Its a cultural festivals of punjabis celebrated in the yaad of dulha bhati a rajput punjabi warrior who clashed with Akbar the mughal king and sundri and mundri two sisters he got married ... celebrating it or not doesnot make u a better or a less sikh ...

and its one of the two festivals (after rakhri) we discuss every year on sikhsangat :lol: ...

I m answering as per what i follow

1- Maryada of kes(hair) at night time - Is hukam that we cover our kes whilst sleeping aswel(with kanga attached) ?

Yes ... kess should be covered with kanga in them all the time ...

and if so, does it have to be a keski or a smaller dhumalla. I assume other forms of cover i.e Patka, Parna/saafa are not allowed?

Keski is which cover ur hair it should be minimum the length our your hair ... dhumalla is Do-malla two turbans .. keski de upper dastar de upper dujji dastar is a dummala ... as per dal panths mareyada one should have blue keski in hair all the time

2- When we do kesi ishnaan, I have heard we dont eat or drink or wear shoes until the 'kes harey hogaye' (no longer wet)?

No idea

3- During kesi ishnaan (with body), what does one who with their kanga kakkaar? unless we wash our hair seperately from washing our shareer?

keep it in kamar kassa

4- Are any of the above rules more relaxed around mum/dad/siblings?

Follow mareyada with bhakti bhavna not as rules u will get the answer urself

What does one do with kes that have fallen whilst kesi ishnaan (some ppl might actualy lose alot whilst washing)? Do we burn them? Same goes for singhs dhara? what do we do with the beard hair?

Collect them in a box and burn them

6- Is hukam that we tie our dhumalla sitting? or are we allowed to stand and tie it?

it should be sitting so that dumalla should not touch ground or ur kashera ... i sometimes tie it standing when i tie normal pug for college ... mareyada says it should be sitting ...

amrit shako singh sajo

Sri means Uttam, Best ... Mat means soch, thinking ... word meaning of srimat is uttam soch, best thinking

what do u mean by "animals being slaughtered on a mass scale" it is animal farming as u grow wheat and rice and cut them for food in same way u grow hen and goats and cut them ... there would be hardly 100 titars in punjab nearest relative to chicken but lakhs of chicken on the other side is it natural i dont think so ... chicken are produced to eat its a cycle ...

and by saying "The Bujjer Kurehit is eating the animal itself. But feeding the animal to a dog isn't a Bujjer Kurehit, because you're not consuming it yourself. As stated in an earlier post, it is made clear through Bhai Gurdaas Jee varan that Guru Hargobind Sahib kept dogs"

its like saying killing a human by ur hands is bad but if u can get some else to kill him its not bad ...

in very clears words i would only like to say u cant feed urself or anyone else in this word on a non living thing everything has to be killed before converting into energy to live be at plants animals or microscopic cells like curd ...

All five takths say bajjar kurehat is u cant eat kutha NOT because goat is an animal but because its slaughters in a muslim way and is a kurbani ... so avoid using Bajjar kurehat with meat unless someone thinks his specific JATHEBANDI is bigger then even Takhats ...

well soon u will make a new thread by just replacing facebook with sikhsangat ... :sad:

A very good morning to u

and plz dont name him Moti or Tiger :lol: which is pronounced as "tegr" in punjabi homes and every second dog has this name ...

waheguru

Wjkk Wjkf

Ive been scaring people with my avtar photo ever since i joined haha :D here's a bigger one

topo top ... when u visit punjab next time ... we will meet

I m doing post graduations in computers from punjabi university ... hard to take admission in students take special coaching to give its entrance exam ... i didnt prepared even for a day ... filled all the answers even there was negative marking yet i got around 200 rank in punjab dont know how ... now i m doing my masters study only and only in final exam days and i m doing well if not great ... do seva do meditation and do ardas ... dont worry about studies ... just when ur sitting in ur class listen to teacher half of ur work is done ...

and managing ur time it depends what u give highest priority to as u said u wake up at amrit vehla but think of studies ... so make few adjustments in ur daily life ... and dont worry about ur exams and results leave it on guru and have faith in him ... even if u score low marks u will be successful ... there is not even 1 percent chance of failure in life if u have a nitname ... so make ur goals clear ... study hard do seva hard do naam simren and path ... 24 hours are enough to manage them ...