$ingh $oorma

That was a case of SUICIDE, its another thing that he had love but Suicide is Suicide and in sikhi its just not allowed.. i would never accept such a person as a brahmgyani..

Fateh Ji, I just askedn a simple question because Prof Darsahn Singh Ji, claimed guru nanak never went in the river and then went to sky. He says if guru ji did went and gothis "Spritual" knowledge from going into river. How could he had made such a mistake of not mentioning it in gurbani... AND YES BEGAMPURA IS 2KM AWAY FROM NANKANA SAHIB, WHO KNOW GURU JI MIGHT HAVE MEN'T HE WAS BORN THERE (BEGAMPURA), WE CAME UP NANKANA SAHIB AFTER MANY YEARS...

"Ghaley Aave Naanka Sade Oth Jaave" Antim Ardas for Bib Jasbir Kaur Ji will be held on Jan 20th. Below is the schedule:- Program Details Visitation and Akhand Keertan 3:00 PM to 7:30 PM on Jan. 19, 2006 Benisasia Funeral Home Inc. 3263 Derry Road East, Mississauga, ON, L4T 1A8 Cremation/Funeral 10:00 AM to 11:00 AM on Jan. 20, 2006 Meadowvale Cemetery Crematorium And Mausoleum (905-451-3716) 7732 Mavis Road, Brampton, ON, L6Y 5L5 Samaaptee of Sree Sehaj Paatth Saaheb, Alahaniaa daa Paatth, Ramkalee Sad daa Paatth & Akhand Keertan 12:00 PM to 02:00 PM on Jan. 20, 2006 Gurooduaaraa Saaheb - Dixie Road (Hall No. 3 & 4) Ontario Khalsa Darbar (905-670-3311) 7080 Dixie Road, Mississauga, ON Raensabaayee Keertan 08:00 PM to 04:30 AM on Jan. 20-21, 2006 Gurooduaaraa Saaheb - Dixie Road (Main Hall) Ontario Khalsa Darbar (905-670-3311) 7080 Dixie Road, Mississauga, ON Visit:- Dashmesh Darbar ; AKJ For Further Info. Fateh!!

I was looking for shabad "Halay Yaraan Halay Yaraan" in AKJ style but couldn't finf any. I was wondering if any you have it on pc or know from where i can get it. I will be greatful for your help...

Not the sachkhand from japji sahib, i mean the other that people mention for eg: when they say guru ji went to take bath in river he went up in sky to sachkhand.. etc.. I'm asking for "material" sachkhand..

Khalsa Ji, I was thinking who first came up with the idea of Sachkhand, Where it originated? Where it is according to sikhs (If it is something)? If it is why isn't it mentioned at all in guru granth sahib ji, if i'm not wrong?

Fateh Ji, I don't want or my mean for posting this topic is not to promote anything but to let everyone who is a student and or active in Sikh community to join a mailing list run by sikh students at Harvard University:- Harvard Singh's Mailing List We will be happy if those of you who are students especially can join to the mailing list and contibute also. I will also encourgane SikhSangat newsmakers to post daily news update at the list, as news are copyrighted to them one can't just copy and paste it. I hope you will join the list and contribute by discussing daioly news, events, issues or just putting an article or news or a historical piece of writing etc. Thanks!!

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Federal prosecutors on Monday said a Pakistani living in New York wired money and tried to send foot soldiers to a Sikh militant organization aimed at violently forcing India's government into letting the group form its own state. Khalid Awan knew the $25,000 that two Sikh businessmen gave him to transfer to a Khalistan Commando Force leader in 2001 "was for bad things and that innocent people would die," federal prosecutor Lawrence Ferazani said. Ferazani spoke in Brooklyn federal court during opening arguments of Awan's trial on counts of providing material support or resources to terrorists, conspiracy to provide material support or resources to terrorists and money laundering to promote terrorism. If convicted on all counts, Awan faces a maximum of 55 years in prison. Awan was detained shortly after the September 11, 2001, attacks as a material witness. While in prison, Ferazani said Awan recruited fellow inmate Harjit Singh to join the Khalistan Commando Force by introducing him to leader Paramjit Singh Panjwar through phone calls from the prison. Awan's lawyer, Khurrum Wahid, said his client was "guilty by association" because he had invited Panjwar to his sister's wedding on a visit to Lahore. "They didn't have a criminal relationship, they had a completely personal relationship," Wahid said, adding that Awan transferred the money from a U.S. bank account to a Pakistani account that were both in his name. Wahid said once Singh learned Awan was a friend of Panjwar that he went to federal authorities and became a confidential informant, seeking to reduce his jail time for a credit card scam. "He agreed to follow the government's direction in creating evidence against Mr. Awan," Wahid said. "He asked Awan to call Panjwar to try to get him to admit that he's the head of the Khalistan Commando Force and to get Awan to admit that he gave him money for violence against India." -------------- Source:- Reuters

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Veera read the Zafarnama, you will get my point.. Even guru ji agreed himself .. All we nee dis educated sikhs around the world in every depat on high level jobs with good deed and respect for nanak's house in their heart and we will be good to go..

I am very liberal and peace loving, anti war type of guy.. But hearing replies like above makes me think.. It's Stooopid to say such thing. Okay without offending our brother... i wanna ask him few brotherly questions.. If someone comes to your home and makes your life & your family life horrible like real hell.. Would you just sit down and keep urself calm? Are you saying that satwant singh and beant singh didn't control the five evils before killing the witch? Let me explain this to you.. When one acts or commit something big like assassination in ANGER then naturally later the assassin will come back to his senses and realize that whatever he did was very wrong and acted in anger and will seek or even begging for mercy. But our singhs didn't commit any mistake in fact they knew everything before hand of what gonna become/happen to them. They never ask for mercy (imagine our singhs as Mel Gibson character in braveheart at the end of the movie.) Person who does something in anger do not see or understand what will happen to them in future. Simply your logic behind indras killing in anger doesnt sums up.. hope we dont hear the next thing from you is guru Gobind singh jees army acted in anger against mughals.. they were suppose to defeat the five evils or thieves first.. etc Regarding the Khushwant singh.. He is top retarted writer in the world not because of his recent work but his views regarding female gender is disgusting in writing. In outlook he looks like a mental patient and please don't tell he is good sikh... no good sikh marries off his child to non-sikh (?)! I won't write anything more, because all i wanted to say i said, But last i would say for this thread is that FUTURE AWAITS & SO AM I... IF WE CAN'T LEARN TODAY THEN WE WILL NEVER. NEVER.

Thats part of it.. but remember waheguru helps those who can help themselves.. so we need to at least try and put our faith in the almighty, we need to force these problems out. forever.

In Gurbani it says there are many different kind of tapasyeas:- One can tap on someones name, one can tap on his job, one can tap on life, one can tap on grihst, one can tap on lords name... TAP means remembering, meditating basically for a reward at the end... That is not what our gurus want us to do..(I forogt the gurbani verse but will post as soon as i find it.. it goes something like, Tapa Tap Karte...) Suleman is referring to an tapasya which rishi munniya's do, he even laugh at rishi muniyas who force themselves to meet vahiguroo. he says in urdu- mukhti dakhai saie nahi, jugti(pyaar) saie milti hai. No where he against the bhagti principle of sikhism which is bairaag gursikhi sehaj avastha marg which is contary to some rishi moniyas and yogis who force them selves to get grace by doing hard tamoguni, rajoguni tapyasa(hard penances). Yes, thats what the verse i wanted to say means..

In Gurbani it says there are many different kind of tapasyeas:- One can tap on someones name, one can tap on his job, one can tap on life, one can tap on grihst, one can tap on lords name... TAP means remembering, meditating basically for a reward at the end... That is not what our gurus want us to do..(I forogt the gurbani verse but will post as soon as i find it.. it goes something like, Tapa Tap Karte...)

Veera, I agree but its not about VIEWS anymore. This is about our panth's future, all the problems we are facing in the world and how to solve them...

$ingh $oorma, I completely understand the point you are trying to make. If at all someone has to descend to the level of revenge then there is an ancient jungle saying that "REVENGE IS BEST SERVED COLD". If your anger can't stand the test of time in the very least, then you ain't worthy of taking revenge on any one. Once anger boils down, the conscience takes control over a human being again, the true test of determination of ones' ability to take revenge for any atrocity and if the person who has committed the atrocity really deserves to be avenged will get much clearer. 'Hot headed' people usually do things because they are more concerned about 'Log kya kahenge'/'What will people say' if I don't do anything about it factor. They are mostly concerned with ridicule by their peers and society if they are seen to be doing nothing and come across as a pancy rather than a conscious need to avenge the loss of a loved one. They also in a sense fear to face themselves after such a calamity thus feel it is much better to vent on someone. Anyhow humans have no right to take each other's life anyways because that is entirely Gods prerogative because it is he/them who gave us life. But the sin we commit by taking someone's life in revenge is far lesser if it is done with a calm, clear, and conscious mind rather than behaving like a hot-headed animal. Secondly coming to the point of Indira Gandhi's death, like it or not she was betrayed by her Sikh bodyguard who was entrusted to protect her. He had betrayed from his karma and betrayed from his basic duty, which was to protect her. Indira was informed by her intelligence agencies that her Sikh bodyguards were probably conspiring against her, yet she reposed faith in her Sikh bodyguards and said that would not do her any harm because she trusted them completely. Those people whom she trusted completely finally took her life. Veera I know thats point i was trying to make. I'm not here talkin about just us, i had to make this post because of our future generation. Most of us at this forum were alive during 1980s and early 90s and were born in India, some where born outside but went to india to study etc. And there views changed because of the society there were in. But just last week, at my locakl gurg ghar, talking about history of 1984. A 10 YEAR OLD kid asked the teacher, "WERE ALL SIKH PEOPLE FROM 1984 BAD?" The teacher asked why? and then that 10 year old kid responded because those 2 sikhs who were supposed to protect the pm of india decieved her, isn't that againt what baba ji told us last week? The teacher was just shocked. Veer Ji, Its not about us because all can be hotheaded because we saw what happened,(You guys were saying me that how can i say something about shaheeds, well my family members died during 1984-1994) its ones first respond by CNS to be angry. But when you try to explain why you were angry to the new generation, IT DOES NOT MAKES ANY SENSE. And when i say new generation i'm talking about people from outside India living in authoritive countries. All i want sangat to do is THINK and do GOOD for ourselves and the whole panth as well as the world... You are forgetting something, Its the same guy who gave up his political position from Cabinet when 1984 incidence took place. If he was all about money who could've stayed in politics like SAJJAN etc people. If he was buyable etc or with bad thoughts in mind, why did he left? For more information, he was a religious person, a man who never drank or eat meat. It all changed the day 1984 happened. That same day he resigned, left the city and moved to his house in a village. After the delhi pogroms he started drinking. If you are that interested in mudslinging on KS watch the documentary that was aired by BBC of him.. Read the book writen by another author on his life.. $ingh $oorma, I completely understand the point you are trying to make. If at all someone has to descend to the level of revenge then there is an ancient jungle saying that "REVENGE IS BEST SERVED COLD". If your anger can't stand the test of time in the very least, then you ain't worthy of taking revenge on any one. Once anger boils down, the conscience takes control over a human being again, the true test of determination of ones' ability to take revenge for any atrocity and if the person who has committed the atrocity really deserves to be avenged will get much clearer. 'Hot headed' people usually do things because they are more concerned about 'Log kya kahenge'/'What will people say' if I don't do anything about it factor. They are mostly concerned with ridicule by their peers and society if they are seen to be doing nothing and come across as a pancy rather than a conscious need to avenge the loss of a loved one. They also in a sense fear to face themselves after such a calamity thus feel it is much better to vent on someone. Anyhow humans have no right to take each other's life anyways because that is entirely Gods prerogative because it is he/them who gave us life. But the sin we commit by taking someone's life in revenge is far lesser if it is done with a calm, clear, and conscious mind rather than behaving like a hot-headed animal. Secondly coming to the point of Indira Gandhi's death, like it or not she was betrayed by her Sikh bodyguard who was entrusted to protect her. He had betrayed from his karma and betrayed from his basic duty, which was to protect her. Indira was informed by her intelligence agencies that her Sikh bodyguards were probably conspiring against her, yet she reposed faith in her Sikh bodyguards and said that would not do her any harm because she trusted them completely. Those people whom she trusted completely finally took her life. Veera I know thats point i was trying to make. I'm not here talkin about just us, i had to make this post because of our future generation. Most of us at this forum were alive during 1980s and early 90s and were born in India, some where born outside but went to india to study etc. And there views changed because of the society there were in. But just last week, at my locakl gurg ghar, talking about history of 1984. A 10 YEAR OLD kid asked the teacher, "WERE ALL SIKH PEOPLE FROM 1984 BAD?" The teacher asked why? and then that 10 year old kid responded because those 2 sikhs who were supposed to protect the pm of india decieved her, isn't that againt what baba ji told us last week? The teacher was just shocked. Veer Ji, Its not about us because all can be hotheaded because we saw what happened,(You guys were saying me that how can i say something about shaheeds, well my family members died during 1984-1994) its ones first respond by CNS to be angry. But when you try to explain why you were angry to the new generation, IT DOES NOT MAKES ANY SENSE. And when i say new generation i'm talking about people from outside India living in authoritive countries. All i want sangat to do is THINK and do GOOD for ourselves and the whole panth as well as the world... You are forgetting something, Its the same guy who gave up his political position from Cabinet when 1984 incidence took place. If he was all about money who could've stayed in politics like SAJJAN etc people. If he was buyable etc or with bad thoughts in mind, why did he left? For more information, he was a religious person, a man who never drank or eat meat. It all changed the day 1984 happened. That same day he resigned, left the city and moved to his house in a village. After the delhi pogroms he started drinking. If you are that interested in mudslinging on KS watch the documentary that was aired by BBC of him.. Read the book writen by another author on his life.. AND FOR MOST, HE RETURED ALL THE HONORS GIVEN TO HIM, HE REJECTED EVERY SINGLE SERVICE GIVEN TO HIM BY INDIAN GOVT., WHICH IS STILL LIKE THAT. HOW CAN A MAN WHO WANTED MONEY AND FAME COULD'VE REJECTED THE INDIA'S HIGHEST AWARD OF HONOR, PADAM VIBHUSHAN?? IT IS STILL LIKE THAT, HE REJECTED THE PADAM VIBHUSHAN 4 TIMES ALREADY... ---------- I thought you guys might ask from where i got this infomration, Its taken from "A man called Khushwant Singh", By Rohini Singh. It is legally accepted book by LOC under Biographies...

How many people's blood did Aurangzeb had? As far as i know its more then 10,000 but Guru Gobind Singh Ji let him die in Waheguru's Raja.. This is fact also my veer jio!! Why do u keep talking about Aurangzeb? Guru Sahib defeated him, thats why he wrote Zafarnama, just as Sikhs defeated Wazir Khan, Massa Ranghar or Indra. Victory is brought forth in many ways. But once again, u ignore what ive stated just as u have ignored everyone else who posted. You jump around when u cant answer a simple question. Tell me, what do u think the people of the world will have in store for Bin Laden when they catch him? Are they going to tell him to step down as the leader of Al-Qaida? Tell me, what happened to Saddam? Would the people of Iraq or the Kurds be satisfied with an apology? What would've happened to Hitler if the coward didnt kill himself? The Allied forces would've had an open discussion with the guy over dinner? Did Udham Singh go to England to have tea with Dyer and discuss his grievances on the lines of the Jallianwala Bagh Massacre? At least try to be a little practical. and think realistically, freedom loving people through out the world will never tolerate injustice and never have. Someone who claims to be a "Singh Soorma" should be on the front lines fighting against that injustice. Im done with you, youre getting really really annoying now, (sorry, im just being honest). Fateh. We will find out because future is always waiting, but before i leave heres a definition of Zafarnama, it wasn't a victory with weapons, It was a victory with words. IN this case take Indra as Aurangzeb, he died himself guru ji never killed him nor won over him. But Guru Ji did surely won him spritually and psychologically, thats all that matters. He died in waheguru's raja. Heres what zafarnama means:- I did my best. But you chose the Kirpan as the last answer.. & I will await an answer 'till i breathe my last breath... I will await how many issues can we solve of the power of Kirpan.. in today's world.. I will await if we can keep our tubans legal.. But in case in your life you ever remember me, remember my four ally's.

How many people's blood did Aurangzeb had? As far as i know its more then 10,000 but Guru Gobind Singh Ji let him die in Waheguru's Raja.. This is fact also my veer jio!!

Smell won't "kill" you until your heart is "clean".. songs won't "kill" you untill you ears are "clean"... i hope you get what i meant...

"Good sees good in everything and bad tends to find bad in good also." - (Not by me but by Twain..)

happy typing :D Well i didn't miss the HUKAM part, because there was nothing to write about that statement.. because everything happens for good and happens in waheguru's raja in other words hukam. But instead you missed the WORD part of my reply.. and thatsa nice way to get ur legs out of something where you put them first.. we been doing that from years.... And i don't want your rpely to entertin myself, if i was here for entertainment, I could've just turned on the tv and watched my fav tv show.. I want you to reply to clear doubts.. One man talking is usually interpreted wrong by mind but lots are right, even though they are wrong.. Its not about my ego or your ego its about the panth.. and where we are leading our self...missing or misinterpretatin the history..

See thats what i'm talking about IGNORING... we have been doing it from years and looking for new ways... But now its time to set a common ground..

hmm... so your are taking oat of Gurumaharaj, good..the events of 84 were Guru's hukum aswell. Everything happens in HUKUM bai, sittin behind a computer screen and typing a few statements is far more easier then being in a real life situation. Oh so now we got nothing to say and came down to me sitting in front of computer and typing statements. Well, Remember a statement is created from word, and a word can create life and distroy it.. A Word can change minds and destinies, A word make you king and begger, A word can bring you apart from waheguru and it is the word that can unite you with him.. I ususally don't type or write but this is prob the first time me typing so much, if i am typing i'm typing for good... You asked me for an answer to your quesition and i replied, now i demand my anwer, but first find the question.

My replys been posted, heres if you missed:- Don't you think guru gobind singh jis time's situation matches the situation we were/are in right now.. Veera Rethink the history in your mind again.. otherwise take history class.. I think we just got a little hotheaded... now.