singh_khalsa

firstly only guru granth sahib is reliable as its written by the gurus themselves. sikhi does believe in hell and heaven but these are not permanent as islam believes.

ji, you have read bhai rama singh's book, yes the word used is dream but he had sting marks when he woke up and bhai rama singh ji a tells us a little about how souls suffer. this continues after he shares his experience, and i recall bhai sahib saying that i terrifingly witnessed these souls getting punishments but imagine how terriying it is for those souls going through this. bhai sahib goes on to tell us about dharamrai and etc. gurbani tells us there are different types of hells such as reincarnation. doesnt mean this is the only one. there is hell on this earth but also one for sinners in the afterlife.

AgY jmkwlu lyKw lyvY ijau iql GwxI pIVwiedw ]9] agai jamakaal laekhaa laevai jio thil ghaanee peerraaeidhaa ||9|| In the world hereafter, the Messenger of Death calls him to account, and crushes him like sesame seeds in the oil-press. ||9|| well lion(LK)Kingji, gurbani refers to hell, heaven, dharamrai, jamdhoots many times.. and also have you heard of bhai randhir singh ji? and read undithi duniyaa? the book will explain better then i can.

well we all agree that heaven and hell can be on earth so you dont have to try and proove that. some gurbani tuks... pwpIAw no n dyeI iQru rhix cuix nrk Goir cwilAnu ] paapeeaa no n dhaeee thhir rehan chun narak ghor chaalian || He does not give the sinners any stability or place of rest; He consigns them to the depths of hell. Brmy BUlw duKu Gxo jmu mwir krY Kulhwnu ] bharamae bhoolaa dhukh ghano jam maar karai khulehaan || They wander lost and confused, deceived by doubt, suffering in terrible pain. The Messenger of Death shall beat them to a pulp. jw kI thl jmdUq ibdwry ]2] jaa kee ttehal jamadhooth bidhaarae ||2|| When I serve Him, the Messenger of Death is chased away. ||2|| jmdUq mhw BieAwn ] jamadhooth mehaa bhaeiaan || The Messenger of Death is dreadful and horrible. jmdUqI hY hyirAw duK hI mih pcw ] jamadhoothee hai haeriaa dhukh hee mehi pachaa || The Messenger of Death sees him, and he rots away in pain. ieku duKu skqvwr jmdUq ] eik dhukh sakathavaar jamadhooth || Another pain is the attack of the Messenger of Death so yes hell is on earth, and in reincarnating, but there is also a physical suffering by the messeger of death in the afterlife as gurbani says above, ANOTHER pain. of course gursikhs are not afraid of hell or yearn for heaven, they just want to reach waheguru! but doesnt mean we can say hell and heaven doesnt exist, that way we are disagreeing with truth told by the guru and gursikhs like bhai randhir singh who have written a whole book about this topic.

there are many references in gurbani to a real hell where evil sinners are punished. there has been an argument recently about some people ignoring these tuks from gurbani and taking other tuks to follow their view. yes hell and heavn can be on this earth and there is also a physical one in the afterlife. ontop of this bhai randhir singh has written a whole book about it. bhai rama singh had personal experienc of hell. so 2 great gursikhs telling us (would they lie?) and written in gurbani many times... make your own decision.

basically: prophet muhammed didnt write the koran himself, and apperantly he was influenced by satan and the satanic verses came to be. as a sikh we believe in the gurus teachings and only in sikhism is where the guru actually himself compiled and wrote the word of the guru granth sahib. so its upto us to believe if guruji is telling us the truth about gurbani being the word of god. of course muslims have to make themselves feel better and just come up with that the koran is from god. the koran cannot be all of god's true word as most of it is about the prophet.

i was watching a science pogram a while back on the theory of evloution. and they came up with that if other planets could hold life there would bound to be similar to us humans. sikhism is universal and of course sikhism is on other planets, khalsa is ruler of million of galaxies!

guruji and waheguru are one. now the ten gurus were humans and obviously had their own souls. but when guruship was passed to them they were transformed into satguru. they were now the true guru. and the true guru is waheguru himself. one thing kharkoo said was that you cannot tell the differnce as they are merged. (no need to argue about if the drop is the drop or the ocean, stick to your own personal views) so i didnt say we believe in the 10 gods. we know guru nanak dev is the shabad sri guru granth sahib ji. bani guru guru hai bani AMimRq sbdu AMimRq hir bwxI ] a(n)mrith sabadh a(n)mrith har baanee || The Shabad is Amrit; the Lord's Bani is Amrit. this is waheguru's bani. dhur ki bani. so as guru was the shabadh, and the shabdh was the true word from god, then that shows guru ji knows everything. think about it, god knows everything and its his bani that the guru showed us. and that bani shabdh is the guru, hence the shbdh ji knows everything.

brahmgyani aap nirankar hai is the guru lower then brahmgyani? if the guru has all knowledge of god, then of course the guru knows everything! have you not read the shabadh praising guru gobind singh jee? if someone could please post that shabdh with meanings. the highest throne is below guru ji. even talks of the angels bowing to the guru's feet, so this shows that there is an afterlife with heavens and also that the guru is the highest who knows everything. (some people do or do not believe a human can be brahmgyani, i do not know myslef, only guru ji does. so please dont turn this topic into a debate about people not allowed to be called sant or brahmgyani, start another topic if you feel the need to share your views about brahmgyani.)

pyare randip singh ji, ok yes satguru ji is reffered to as god, the ultimate true teacher. sB qy vfw siqguru nwnku ijin kl rwKI myrI ]4]10]57] sabh thae vaddaa sathigur naanak jin kal raakhee maeree ||4||10||57|| Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. ||4||10||57|| guru nanak dev ji and the following human gurus, siri guru granth sahib and waheguru are the one and the same satguru.

gur goivMdu guoivMdu gurU hY nwnk Bydu n BweI ]4]1]8] gur govi(n)dh guovi(n)dh guroo hai naanak bhaedh n bhaaee ||4||1||8|| The Guru is God, and God is the Guru, O Nanak; there is no difference between the two, O Siblings of Destiny. ||4||1||8|| maybe randip singh will reject guruji's shabdh here? but all other shabdhs which randip singh agrees to is fine? gur goibMd gopwl gur gur pUrn nwrwiexh ] gur gobi(n)dh gopaal gur gur pooran naaraaeineh || The Guru is the Lord of the Universe; the Guru is the Lord of the world; the Guru is the Perfect Pervading Lord God. guru goibMd gurU gopwl ] gur gobi(n)dh guroo gopaal || The Guru is the Lord of the Universe, the Guru is the Lord of the World. guru gopwlu guru goivMdw ] gur gopaal gur govi(n)dhaa || The Guru is the Lord of the World, the Guru is the Master of the Universe.

our humble guruji would not praise himself instead of god.

science has proven many so called facts in your bible wrong. guru granth sahib is the only one in the world which is ahead of all science. Tells us how there is evoltuion, how planets orbit the sun (rememebr this is 500 years ago) and the countless galaxies that exist. science cannot prove anything wrong in the guru granth sahib. now science has realised all this recently. but guru ji knows everything, and even told us how there are countless universes. now even science doesnt know about this, it only recently had theories about there being other universes. your bible has many faults. so no point using the beliefs of the bible in arguing against any views of sikhi.

kharkoo how dare you say guru nanak himself doesnt know. this is just plain bad to say guruji doesnt know something. what guru ji is saying that we manmukhs do not what happens to the soul after death. look how many theoires there have been about the afterlife in this world. if you disagree, then start a topic saying guru ji doesnt know everything and use that as an example.

no gurshabadh is eternal and universal, it wouldnt use (what you consider) FALSE concepts again and again just to explain something to a paticular people. it's so obvious there's heaven. guruji was giving those people the correct way to reach heaven, and not through there useless ways. cMigAweIAw buirAweIAw vwcY Drmu hdUir ] cha(n)giaaeeaa buriaaeeaa vaachai dhharam hadhoor || Good deeds and bad deeds-the record is read out in the Presence of the Lord of Dharma. krmI Awpo AwpxI ky nyVY ky dUir ] karamee aapo aapanee kae naerrai kae dhoor || According to their own actions, some are drawn closer, and some are driven farther away. ijnI nwmu iDAwieAw gey mskiq Gwil ] jinee naam dhhiaaeiaa geae masakath ghaal || Those who have meditated on the Naam, the Name of the Lord, and departed after having worked by the sweat of their brows nwnk qy muK aujly kyqI CutI nwil ]1] naanak thae mukh oujalae kaethee shhuttee naal ||1|| -O Nanak, their faces are radiant in the Court of the Lord, and many are saved along with them! ||1||

no need to ask the hell and heeaven believers why we belive that, its there in gurbani. there are many references above.

preview: http://www.akj-media.com/rand/LeicsterRhen...anrhensbhai.WMA

benti to sangat not to post more gurbani as there is plenty showing proof of the reality of jamdhoots, hell and heaven. randip singh ji has chosen not to accept, still! so i've asked randip singh ji what does happen after death and if he even belives in an afterlife. this may explain why randip singh has completely chosen to ignore hell and heaven, instead of heated arguments between certain members.

randip singh ji, this is your own way of putting it, yes that is why gursikhs dont strive for heaven, they just want the love of waheguru. are the khands mentioned in jap ji sahib just applied to life? so what does happen when we die? is there no punishment for evil doers(explained in gurbani) and is there no reward for good?(again explained in gurbani) guru ji critisized hindhus for having superstitions and commiting pointless acts just to get a short cut to heaven. guru ji has never said heaven doesnt exist. infact as the numurous gurbani quotes above have mentioned, guru ji tells us there are countless hells and heavens. we all go to dharam khand, we have to go somewhere when we die! are you suggesting we dont have an afterlife or that something different happens instead of being judged? i don't understand how you've dismissed hell as a figure of imagination when gurbani clearly describes hell,jamdhoots,dhramrai.

randip singh ji, u still dont believe in heaven or hell after my 2 posts with gurbani of jamdhoots and ajaamal? and you reposted that shabdh of being incarnated in hell and heaven, i've told you noone here disagrees on your belief that hell and heaven can be on earth. the argument is on hell and heaven after death. thank you.

another shabdh proving the reality of hell and heaven (but gursikhs want nethier of these, just want waheguru) so there will be shabdh saying that hell and heaven dont matter or something like that... piq Ajwml pwp kr jwie klwvqxI dy rihAw] path ajaamal paap kar jaae kalaavathanee dhae rehiaa|| Ajamil, the fallen sinner lived with a prostitute. gur qy bymuK hoiekY pwp kmwvy durmiq dihAw] gur thae baemukh hoeikai paap kamaavae dhuramath dhehiaa|| He became an apostate. He was entangled in the cobweb of evil deeds. ibRQw jnm gvwieAnu Bvjl AMdr iPrdw vihAw] brithhaa janam gavaaeian bhavajal a(n)dhar firadhaa vehiaa|| His life was wasted in futile deeds and was tossed and thrown within the terrifying worldly ocean. iCA puq jwey vysvw pwpW dy Pl ieCy lihAw] shhia puth jaaeae vaesavaa paapaa(n) dhae fal eishhae lehiaa|| While with the prostitute, he became the father of six sons. As a result of her bad deeds they all became dangerous robbers. puqR aupMnw sqvW nwauN Drx noN icq aumihAw] puthr oupa(n)naa sathavaa(n) naaou(n) dhharan no(n) chith oumehiaa|| A seventh son was born and he began to consider a name for the child. gurU duAwrY jwiekY gurmuK nwauN nrwiex kihAw] guroo dhuaarai jaaeikai guramukh naaou(n) naraaein kehiaa|| He visited the Guru who named his son Narayan (a name for God). AMqkwl jmdUq vyK puq nrwiex bolY CihAw] a(n)thakaal jamadhooth vaekh puth naraaein bolai shhehiaa|| At the end of his life, seeing the messengers of death Ajamil cried for Narayan. jmgx mwry hirjnW gieAw surg jm fMf n sihAw] jamagan maarae harijanaa(n) gaeiaa surag jam dda(n)dd n sehiaa|| The name of God made the death messengers take to their heels. Ajamil went to heaven and did not suffer the beatings from the club of the messengers of death. nwie ley duK fyrw FihAw ]òú] naae leae dhukh ddaeraa dtehiaa ||aa|| Utterance of Name of the Lord dispels all sorrow.

inMdku jmdUqI Awie sMGwirE dyvih mUMf aupir mtwk ] ni(n)dhak jamadhoothee aae sa(n)ghaariou dhaevehi moo(n)dd oupar mattaak || The Messenger of Death comes to slaughter the slanderer; he beats him on his head. jmdUqI hY hyirAw duK hI mih pcw ] jamadhoothee hai haeriaa dhukh hee mehi pachaa || The Messenger of Death sees him, and he rots away in pain. BY BieAwnk jmdUq duqr hY mwieAw ] bhai bhaeiaanak jamadhooth dhuthar hai maaeiaa || The Messenger of Death is terrifying and horrendous, and sea of Maya is impassable. jmdUq mhw BieAwn ] jamadhooth mehaa bhaeiaan || The Messenger of Death is dreadful and horrible. ieku duKu skqvwr jmdUq ] eik dhukh sakathavaar jamadhooth || Another pain is the attack of the Messenger of Death. Aink swsn qwVMiq jmdUqh qv sMgy ADmM nrh ] anik saasan thaarra(n)th jamadhootheh thav sa(n)gae adhhama(n) nareh || Associating with you, mortals are debased and punished by the Messenger of Death in so many ways. (guru ji says you are punished, so cant be a ficitonal story for hindhus, as gurbani is 100% truth! i really cant belive guru ji is there to show hindhus that hell and jamdhoots are not real, there are so many refrences to the messenger of death. how can this be false? guru ji never points this out as false, guruji says the messenger o death.. and so on... so this must be truth, and we know guru ji wouldnt lie.) AMqkwl jmdUq vyK puq nrwiex bolY CihAw] a(n)thakaal jamadhooth vaekh puth naraaein bolai shhehiaa|| At the end of his life, seeing the messengers of death Ajamil cried for Narayan

hell isnt eternal as the christians believe it, so that shabdh about those being freed from hell isnt a lie. doing naam simran, while doing good, will save us from any type of hell. guru ji is telling us that you are reborn many times and end up in heaven or hell after each death. so a warning to do naam simran. but this is for debate what guru ji means in this actual shabdh. but i already told you yes ther is heaven and hell on this eartch but there's also a physical hell and heaven after death. so you dont need to prove your belief of heaven and hell being on earth, the debate is whether there is are real hells and heavens after death.

yes randip singh ji, there are shabdhs about how heaven and hell can be on this earth, but there many shabdhs telling us the reality of hell. do not slander the guru by dismissing this! this would be a great sin! i've seen both types of shbds and i know they are both correct, gurbani is 100% truth. dont pick a part of gurbani, look at the whole of it!

randip singh, please dont use gurbani to follow your views, look at the shabahds with an open mind and see what guru ji is telling us. bundu and randip singh are infact BOTH right, in a sense. three types of hell: away from waheguru 8.4 million joon a real terrible hell where punishments are carried out this earth can be like heaven or hell, but there as the reality of heavens and hells in dharam khand. pwpIAw no n dyeI iQru rhix cuix nrk Goir cwilAnu ] paapeeaa no n dhaeee thhir rehan chun narak ghor chaalian || He does not give the sinners any stability or place of rest; He consigns them to the depths of hell. hir Bgqw no dyie ipAwru kir AMgu insqwirAnu ]19] har bhagathaa no dhaee piaar kar a(n)g nisathaarian ||19|| The Lord blesses His devotees with His Love; He sides with them and saves them. ||19|| keI koit nrk surg invwsI ] kee kott narak surag nivaasee || Many millions dwell in heaven and hell. sMq kY dUKin nrk mih pwie ] sa(n)th kai dhookhan narak mehi paae || Slandering the Saints, one falls into hell. koaU nrk koaU surg bMCwvq ] kooo narak kooo surag ba(n)shhaavath || Some have gone to hell, and some yearn for paradise. jamdhoots carry out punishments: ijn hir hir hir rsu nwmu n pwieAw qy BwghIx jm pwis ] jin har har har ras naam n paaeiaa thae bhaageheen jam paas || Those who have not obtained the Sublime Essence of the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, are most unfortunate; they are led away by the Messenger of Death. ijau ijau clih cuBY duKu pwvih jmkwlu shih isir fMfw hy ]2] jio jio chalehi chubhai dhukh paavehi jamakaal sehehi sir dda(n)ddaa hae ||2|| The more they walk away, the deeper it pierces them, and the more they suffer in pain, until finally, the Messenger of Death smashes his club against their heads. ||2|| AND THIS SHABDH EVEN SHOWS US HOW HELL IS A REALITY: Bgq vfw rwjw jnk hY gurmuK mwXw ivc audwsI] bhagath vaddaa raajaa janak hai guramukh maayaa vich oudhaasee|| King Janak was a great saint who amidst maya remained indifferent to it. dyv lok noN cilAw gx gMDrb sBw suKvwsI] dhaev lok no(n) chaliaa gan ga(n)dhharab sabhaa sukhavaasee|| Along with gans and gandharvs (calestial musicians) he went to the abode of the gods. jmpur gieAw pukwr sux ivllwvn jI nrk invwsI] jamapur gaeiaa pukaar sun vilalaavan jee narak nivaasee|| From there, he, hearing the cries of inhabitants of hell, went to them. Drmrwie no AwiKEnu sBnw dI kr bMd KlwsI] dhharamaraae no aakhioun sabhanaa dhee kar ba(n)dh khalaasee|| He asked the god of death, Dharamrai, to relieve all their suffering. kry bynqI Drmrwie hau syvk Twkur AibnwsI] karae baenathee dhharamaraae ho saevak t(h)aakur abinaasee|| Hearing this, the god of death told him he was a mere servant of the eternal Lord (and without His orders he could not liberate them). gihxy DirAnu iek nwauN pwpW nwl krY inrjwsI] gehinae dhharian eik naaou(n) paapaa(n) naal karai nirajaasee|| Janak offered a part of his devotion and remembrance of the name of the Lord. pwsMg pwp n pujnI gurmuK nwauN Aqul n qulwsI] paasa(n)g paap n pujanee guramukh naaou(n) athul n thulaasee|| All the sins of hell were found not equal even to the counterweight of balance. nrkhuM Cuty jIAw jMq ktI glhu islk jmPwsI] narakahu(n) shhuttae jeeaa ja(n)th kattee galahu silak jamafaasee|| In fact no balance can weigh the fruits of recitation and remembrance of the Lords name by the gurmukh. mukiq jugiq nwvYN kI dwsI ]õ] mukath jugath naavai(n) kee dhaasee ||a|| All the creatures got liberated from hell and the noose of death was cut. Liberation and the technique of attaining it are the servants of the name of the Lord.