Singh Khalsa

Edited Respect other member Privacy

My friend just told me that it's because of what happened... Apparently Sikhsangat sevadars left Waheguroo Network without even letting them know.. :'( What's going on?????????? WHAT IS WRONG WITH SOME PEOPLE.

What's going on with Waheguroo Network now? Please don't tell me that this has anything to do with what just happened.... I can imagine some huge behind the scenes break up - why does this always happen to panthic organizations?

So what's going on with Waheguroo Network http://www.waheguroo.com now?

Diljot Kaur Bhainjee, I'm pretty sure she was referring to the Liberal party as well... Team Martin Said But it doesn't really matter now does it? The campaign is over, fear and misinformation can end now. :wub: We both know that both the Liberals and Conservatives have nothing against brown people and women's rights. :TH:

Khalistani, You keep proving CFD's point over and over again. You never give any evidence, you never give any proof, You just say "go to metha and ask baba jee" I'm sorry, but thats not a legitimate argument. No one doubts that Baba Jee is a great Gursikh, but that doesn't mean that everyone has to believe that he's right all the time.

I totally agree with CFD. 100%!! Everyone considers themselves panthic, but no one actually does whats good for the panth. Groups can be a good thing, but CFD is totally right in that they often only try to push their narrow agenda to make their group bigger and to inflate their own ego. Sad...

Where has anyone bashed Taksaal? I've never ever seen anyone do that before. Taksaal is one Jatha who never gets bashed, because every Jatha, even if they have differences, is too politically correct to seem like they're critical of Taksaal. Anyways, that's a seperate issue. People do bash AKJ. People do bash the anti-panthic Nangs of UK and their supporters, and people are critical of Nanaksariya practices (I don't know if many people go ahead and actually bash the Nanaksariyas themselves though) From what I've seen, the only Jathei that get bashed atleast on the youth forums are AKJ, which gets bashed the most often. And the other group is the UK nangs, but since they're a force which isn't really a panthic group anyhow, I think its safe to say that AKJ is one of the only panthic groups that gets bashed. So since out of the 2 main panthic Jathebandis, Taksaal is spared any criticism anyway, our discussion should really be how to prevent Jatha bashing directed at AKJ which is really prominent in almost every non-AKJ youth circle. I'm not a part of AKJ, but I'm just curious as to why so many people hate AKJ? It's really strange. I've been to AKJ Samagams and most of the people there seem to be Gursikhs. Whats all the AKJ bashing about? Most of us already recognize that we need to recognize differences in rehit within different Jathei and accept them, so why do so many people still hate AKJ?

I've never claimed, nor has Khalistani, that having a love marriage makes someone "not a Gursikh". Just as a Bibi who doesn't wear a Keski could very possibly be a Gursikh. Its obviously possible for them to be Gursikhs, but it doesn't make their actions right. When citing examples of Gursikhs, we should cite people who followed ALL rehit. (Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh, Baba Deep Singh Jee, Bhai Fauja Singh, Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee, etc. etc.) Citing "doctors" who are "Gursikhs" doesn't prove anything. When giving examples of Gursikhs we should strive to show examples of people who were "almost perfect" in terms of Gursikhi and Rehit. Anyways, this might lead into a pointless debate about which Gursikhs to cite, so I'll stop on this topic. Moving on, their happiness doesn't prove anything. There's millions of Manmukhs out there who cut their hair and smoke and drink, and many of them are "happy". Please provide arguments with references to show evidence that widely accepted Gursikhs (like the above mentioned) would condone or agree with "love marriages", open relations with the opposite sex, etc. in any form. If anyone looks into their hearts honestly and sincerely they would realize that all prominent panthic Gursikhs of the past would never ever condone open relations with the opposite sex that carry non brother/sister like intentions. Never.

I think its strange how people who restrict their contact with the opposite sex suddenly become targets of criticism so quickly. Do you think these people restrict their interactions because they're a bunch of girl haters? No... Thats not the reason. They restrict contact because most of them sincerely believe that their thoughts and actions would be better off if they restricted their sangat. Sandeep Kaur, maybe you have a better sense of judgement when you're in open relations (I don't mean relations in any sort of negative way) with Singhs, but many people do not. Most people aren't at the stage of seeing everyone as a sister or a brother at every point. Many people's concentration towards Naam and Baanee is effected negatively. If yours isn't, I sincerely hope that one day my spirituality will reach that point.

Sandeep Kaur, Khalistani and I have already given examples of how a life partner could be found. How have all prominent Gursikhs found life partners? Through open interactions with the opposite sex? No. Its done through maintaining a Gursikh Sangat, If a Singh or a Singhnee has a good strong sangat, finding a spouse is no problem at all. And it could so easily be done without violating any brother/sister boundaries and it would minimize the affect the whole process would have on our ability to do bhagti.

Rochak, Just because you've seen "more" it doesn't make your views any more credible or right than Khalistani's. Khalistani's views are untarnished by the evil world, His view of Gurmat seems to be derived directly from Gursikhs without all the justifications and pollutions that would crawl into his mind if he was more "exposed" to the world. I don't want to offend you Rochak Malang/Singh (Singh... one day ) But which views would be more right? Someone who bases their opinions solely on what they've derived from experienced, wise Gursikhs? Or someone whos been in this world long enough where they reach the point of justifying their sins and therefore "going out" with girls or guys? (Not pointing to anyone in particular) No offense to anyone! Singh Khalsa

Khalistani, I'm personally impressed with the amount of capability you seem to possess in discerning "right" and "wrong". Very impressive young brother. Lets continue following Gurbaanee and the teachings we find in the lifestyles of Gursikhs. People who are pro-dating/close relationships with the opposite sex only feel that way because they themselves are caught up in relationships or are caught up in infatuations with Maayaa. No message board postings are going to stop that. Only life altering experiences will fix that or enormous amounts of Kirpa from Guru Sahib. May Guru Sahib bless us all with the ability to know the difference between right and wrong, And may Guru Sahib give us the same abilities and knowledge of Gursikhs of the past and present. I ask the admins to close this topic because no one's going to change their opinions at this point... Singh Khalsa

A lot of people on this site love Baba Jarnail Singh, a lot of people on this site love Bhai Sahib Fauja Singh and Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh among other influential Gursikhs. My personal judgement in relation to my behaviour with the opposite sex is asking myself "What would those Gursikhs think of my actions or thoughts?" Everyone has had meaningless infatuations before, and a lot of us have had meaningless relationships before, Who can honestly say that any Gursikh that we look upto would agree or condone our actions or thoughts?? Lets honestly ask ourselves what we base our decisions on in relation to liking or going out with the opposite sex? Initial attraction? Or maybe.... some of us consider it to be "the beauty of the soul" - Its too bad "ugly" people never get the consideration for the beauty of their soul (99.999% of the time). And so what if you use your mind to believe that the persons soul is beautiful? Is it even one millionth as beautiful as Vaaheguru?? Ask any Gursikh if its even possible to properly concentrate on Naam and Baanee with a relationship or infatuation with the opposite sex on your mind - It harms your ability immeasurably. If you sincerely believe that Baba Jarnail Singh Jee, Bhai Sahib Randheer Singh Jee or whichever Gursikh would encourage and condone your attempts to "get to know a girl personally" or whatever then thats fine. You're totally wrong, but thats okay. Everyone's ultimately responsible for their actions. Our justifications of "love" and "getting to know someone before we marry them" are the ultimate cause of the downfall of so many Sikh Youth. And if you want to preach that, remember th at if even one youth falls from his or her Sikhee in a relationship with the opposite sex and if they at all felt encouraged or less guilty through your posts - Bad Karma for you.

Relationships that try to mimic a marriage relationship (dating, seeing each other without supervision through sangat, elders, gursikhs, etc.) wtihout the blessings of the guru (ie. laavaa) are against gurmat. Even if these relationships aren''t physical, they still involve an emotional relationship that is other than a brother/sister relationship and this is wrong. Having moh for anything or anyone is wrong and something that we should strive to overcome. However, the relationship of brother, sister, parent, son and daughter have been accepted in gurmat and love in these relationships is accepted as long as it doesn''t impede your love for god. In fact, we are supposed to look at everyone as a sibling. The only other relationship that is accepted in gurmat is that of a spouse. Any other relationship, ie girlfriend/boyfriend isn't accepted in gurmat. If anyone has any example from sikh history or from gurbanee of such a relationship being ok, please give it. Living in this society, it is difficult to overcome things like dating. Our mind will find all sorts of excuses to justify it. However, if you do succumb to your mind (and many of us do) don't justify your actions using sikhee. Admit that you have a weakness and that you are unable to practice sikhee fully. When in doubt, I look to gurbanee and then to the lives of great gursikhs, like Sant Jarnail Singh Jee, Bhai Amrik Singh Jee, Bhai Fauja Singh Jee, Baba Attar Singh Jee, Bhai Saahib Randheer Singh Jee etc. I’ve recently read the jeevans of some of the shaheed singhs from baisakhi 1978. Their lives were amazing, true examples of what gursikhs should be. The idea of enteri ng into any sort of relationship with a bibi outside of marriage would have been unimaginable to these gursikhs, or any of the ones mentioned above. And this wasn't simply because of punjabi culture. Punjabi culture is one thing on top, but we all know everything goes on under the surface. Sikhee did this to these singhs. This was a gursikh mindset, not merely Punjabi mentality. Some of these singhs were still young and unmarried at the time of their shaheedis. Yet, their mindset was such that they wouldn’t even think twice about looking at a bibi, much less try to get into any sort of relationship. This wasn't simply Punjabi mentality. It was the high avasthaa of these singhs. We may not be anything like them, but our goal in life, as Sikhs, is to get to that point. Things like dating are things that we have to sacrifice to get there. And it is possible to find a suitable wife or husband without dating. Many do it quite successfully. One final point. One veer asked how we can then find a spouse - how will god tell you. Singh, it's quite simple (in theory at least). Live the way our gurus taught us. Follow the examples of great gursikhs (including our many shaheeds). Wake up at amrit vela and do at least a couple hours of simran (naam). Do your nitnem and read as much gurbanee as possible. Try to keep your rehit fully. You will then find it easier to accept the will of god, whatever it may be, including finding you a spouse. You will realize that YOU can't find anyone or anything, only HE can. Love him and live the life of a gursikh and he will take care of you and your needs. If you are unable to do this (and this by no means is hardcore, it's basic sikhee) then do an ardaas and beg until he blesses you and lets you live like this. Just don't use sikhee to justify your weaknesses. Try rising to the level of sikhee rather than trying to pull sikhee down to your level. I apologize if I sound like I'm preaching (I guess I am preaching). I'm as caught up in the web of the panj chors as much as anybody else if not more. But gurmat is gurmat, regardless of whether I or any of us can live by it or not.