UKGupt Kaur

I get fedup going to my nearest Gurdwara which is 30 minutes drive away. Its not the driving but some of the Sangat there. 1. NONE STOP talking whilst Kirtan is going on. The louder the kirtan the louder they talk.!!!! 2. Why cant families control their children! Its very difficult to listen to a katha when there are kids screaming and or making a nuisance of themselves plus #1 above. In a church, everyone sings along to hyms and are generally very quite when the preacher is preaching. BUT NOT IN A GURDWARA!!!!! Why is that? Is that a real "sadh sangat" as mentioned in Gurbani?

All GurBani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is our final Guru Ji. Coincidently I was just listening to: http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/audio/Kirta...0Hum%20Hain.mp3 http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=10005

Thanks veerji. Could you please upload it someway to download. Thanks. BTW is it possible for you to record from your cassette to a cd then pc?

Does anyone has this recording "Vas Mere Pyareya" by Bhai Davinder Singh Sodhi.? Thanks.

http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/ has been down for several days now. When is it going to be up and running again?

I watched this program aired again earlier this week. Part one link : UK: Divorce Sharia Style (Part 1 of 5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhjo31WCNKI " Aired: February 3, 2007 This Channel 4 program looks at Britain's busiest Sharia council to see what this Muslim legal institution offers couples in conflict and to ask whether religious laws should be recognized by the secular British legal system. In some countries where the majority of people are Muslims, family laws are based on Muslim laws -- Sharia. According to a 2006 poll in Britain, 40% of Muslims now want Sharia to be a part of British law in predominantly Muslim areas. Related: Dispatches: Undercover Mosque - C4 Documentary mentioned in part 5 http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc... More documentaries at: http://atheistmedia.blogspot.com (less)" ""Sharia is knocking on the door of Britain," says Sheikh Suhaib Hassan, General Secretary of the UK Islamic Sharia Council, a group which issues Islamic fatwas and lobbies government to have aspects of Sharia law - initially Muslim family law - incorporated into British law....................................... ---->.read more here http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives..._of_britain.php

This post seems better - titled "Eka Bani Ek Guru Eko Shabad Vichar, translated viakhyaa". http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=245680 Sorry Besoft, I have edited my reply to show U the link now. As you might have noticed "munjoth" is implying that Gurbani is not shabad which is actually incorrect!. To put it bluntly his post is anti-Gurmat.

Thanks for sharing.

This post seems better - titled "Eka Bani Ek Guru Eko Shabad Vichar, translated viakhyaa" explain:http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=26086&view=findpost&p=245680

Thats a good idea thank you. I have since my last post logged into yahoo learning group and found a member who posted translation of Bhai seva singh tarmala's booklet -in "4" parts.

Depends on the "Sant" you are taking about. Re: the site mentioned by munjoth veerji, i dont actually agree with some sections of what bhai sewa singh tarmala is saying.

no, i haven't said you need a sant. I merely stated that one who is at sant (mind) has these duties. It was so that others who are stuck going to deras, babas dont get fooled. Unless I misunderstood, yes you have, you have definetely implied here: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=321806 and the above "have this duties" remark imples this too. One minute you are saying one thing and then in other post another thing.

So because of this one liner you have come to a conclusion that we need to find a "sant" to give us this Key? BTW Where is the complete shabad where it mentions that Guru and satguru has the other keys? Please also tell us your families experience too.

You are bensing (arguing), there is no need to argue - if you do not wish to accept what gurbani is saying then don't. Gurbani states one key is given to sant ...one given to guru and final key satguru has. If you don't like the veechar dont read it. I am not arguing. I am trying to gather where and how you arrived to this conculsion. Please quote the shabads that state this "keys" i.e. 3 different "keys". And please give links to the fulll shabads.

This is new to me.!!! I did not realise that there was a special person who has the "key" and the "location" to .... May I ask, who is your sant that you know holds this key?

Define "middle men". Veerji before you tell me to 'grow up' please read all the post in this thread.! Please refer to this post http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=321806 to understand why my remarks have been made. Re: " Is this what "Tarmala" is teaching you?" What attitude are you talking about? Its a straight forward question with NO hidding meaning.

Is this what "Tarmala" is teaching you?

I dont understand...guru ji's hukum is guru jis bachan..please find some gurbani to back this up because we read: DHUN MUN DHAN SAAB SAUP GUR KO HUKUM MANIYA PAEYA (when we give the guru these 3 things then we obey his hukum)...and then i further explained how this is done. books and bhagati ...books wont tell you how to rise above trigun only poora guru can and our poora guru is shabad guru. To the previous post above the one quoted I am going to leave it as no comment. Guru ji's bachan means divine word. . There is Akal purakhs command that controls the universe, sky etc etc. And Gurbani is also Akal Purakhs divine command ie Hukam. To get to B from A we need to understand and obey certain commands. Oh good you do now agree that Gurbani ie Shabad Guru is what we need not a middle men!

This is most misleading, bani explains other wise: Here is bani about sacha shabad, or sehaj dhun --- TERA MUKH SAUHAVA SEHAJ DHUN BANI, when i say voice im not talking about a voice that speaks punjabi or english or something The laka is ANHAD the language there is ANHAD, ANHAD BANI. the sacha shabad is wot came from vahegurus MUKH - and what happened? NAAM KI THAARI KHAND BRAHAMAND. I dont see the point you are making. Yes Gurbani says that Sacha shabad is Gurbani and also is in us. Yes shabad/naam/bani/anhad dhuni is in us ie true home. Yes shabad Gurbani states that in "sehaj" that we realise Akal Purakh as Sikhi is a path of "Sahaj Maarag". "shjY no sB locdI ibnu gur pwieAw n jwie ] sehajai no sabh lochadhee bin gur paaeiaa n jaae || Everyone longs to be centered and balanced, but without the Guru, no one can. piV piV pMifq joqkI Qky ByKI Brim Bulwey ] parr parr pa(n)ddith jothakee thhakae bhaekhee bharam bhulaaeae || The Pandits and the astrologers read and read until they grow weary, while the fanatics are deluded by doubt. gur Byty shju pwieAw AwpxI ikrpw kry rjwie ]1] gur bhaettae sehaj paaeiaa aapanee kirapaa karae rajaae ||1|| Meeting with the Guru, intuitive balance is obtained, when God, in His Will, grants His Grace. ||1|| BweI ry gur ibnu shju n hoie ] bhaaee rae gur bin sehaj n hoe || O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, intuitive balance is not obtained. sbdY hI qy shju aUpjY hir pwieAw scu soie ]1] rhwau ] sabadhai hee thae sehaj oopajai har paaeiaa sach soe ||1|| rehaao || Through the Word of the Shabad, intuitive peace and poise wells up, and that True Lord is obtained. ||1||Pause|| shjy gwivAw Qwie pvY ibnu shjY kQnI bwid ] sehajae gaaviaa thhaae pavai bin sehajai kathhanee baadh || That which is sung intuitively is acceptable; without this intuition, all chanting is useless. shjy hI Bgiq aUpjY shij ipAwir bYrwig ] sehajae hee bhagath oopajai sehaj piaar bairaag || In the state of intuitive balance, devotion wells up. In intuitive balance, love is balanced and detached. shjY hI qy suK swiq hoie ibnu shjY jIvxu bwid ]2] sehajai hee thae sukh saath hoe bin sehajai jeevan baadh ||2|| In the state of intuitive balance, peace and tranquility are produced. Without intuitive balance, life is useless. ||2|| shij swlwhI sdw sdw shij smwiD lgwie ] sehaj saalaahee sadhaa sadhaa sehaj samaadhh lagaae || In the state of intuitive balance, praise the Lord forever and ever. With intuitive ease, embrace Samaadhi. shjy hI gux aUcrY Bgiq kry ilv lwie ] sehajae hee gun oocharai bhagath karae liv laae || In the state of intuitive balance, chant His Glories, lovingly absorbed in devotional worship. sbdy hI hir min vsY rsnw hir rsu Kwie ]3] sabadhae hee har man vasai rasanaa har ras khaae ||3|| Through the Shabad, the Lord dwells within the mind, and the tongue tastes the Sublime Essence of the Lord. ||3|| Read the rest here http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=177

Guru's hukam is Guru ji's bachan. You are doing vichaar on Guru ji's Hukam here. Thats actually already a step to obeying Guru ji.! I did not need a middle man to tell me this. You may need some guide from sangat and or from books but the rest is 'intuition' ie Guru ji's kirpa, pass kamaee etc.

I agree with you, to actually find saadh sangat, i know why you are reclutent about the middle man because there are so many kaal di sant (saints of the devil) gurbani warns us about these: SANT ANARI MAYA NAAL LOOJA (they are sants that are only after money) and then bani says KATHNI NAAH SOOJA (they will never realise this akath katha). The second part, i guess this is up to you. Guru Granth Sahib Ji has already stated the need to meet those that have met god. And im not talking about some dera baba either. As for understand guru granth sahib jis bani, Gurbani even tells us if u want understand bani do this: Eh Hi Bani Mahapurkhan Ki Nijghar Vaasa Hoe You can interpret this in two ways. Goto Nijghar your self and when you go there you will understand gurbani. Second, an example. When we goto a foreign country we usually require a translator to translate what is being said. Now we want to understand gurbani, but bani is saying if u want to understand me then u gotta come nijghar. Now we havent gone to nijghar so what do we do? We find a translator, one who has vaasa in the nijghar. aah such is the time of kalyug there are so many sants and babas its too difficult to find the true gems. A request to you though tell me this, we read jap ji saab every day right? And you accept bani as akath katha right? In jap ji sahib it tells you the following: Our mool (starting point) What naam is Where is saachkhand How astool (physical) maya was made How sookham (unseen) maya was made How this earth was made How our physical body was made I read the same jap ji saab for many years and couldnt answer these questions, i then had sangat and i was so surprised when i realised the bani had been reading for many years explained this. My benti to you is goto www.simran.info/pmkc listen to abit of the akath katha and tell me your views after. A real "Sant" is one in a million. If I meet him or her thats all well and good - will greet fateh to him or her thats all. The rest I leave in Akal Purakhs hand. This shabad keertan comes to mind http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/audio/Kirtan/Bhai%20Harjinder%20Singh%20Sri%20Nagar%20wale/Tu%20Samrath%20Wadda.mp3 " qU smrQu vfw myrI miq QorI rwm ] too samrath vadaa mayree mat thoree raam. You are great and all-powerful; my understanding is so inadequate, O Lord." read the rest here http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/Gurbani/Amr...an/tr_0271.html (p/s: No thanks to the link provided. :D as I dont agree with tarmala's understanding in certain areas) Re: Japji Sahib - Why not ask how we can be truthful.? How can we be Sach (sat) that we can realise Naam which is "sat" - Ek Ongkar Sat Naam The answers to most of the other questions you have asked are in Gurbani (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji).

We need to obey satguru ji's hukam (Guru ji's bachan) first to get to the destination not the other way round. Sacha shabad is Gurbani. How do we become "sach" is the question. There is no "voice" or "bells" ringing etc when you get there. The place where you are lead to is indescribable.

I agree with your sangat comment. Its difficult to find true saddh/sat sangat. As to needing a "middle man" - that will always be Guru Ji and I will only beg to Waheguroo Akal Purakh to bring me to Guruji (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji which is akath katha). Only Guruji can guide me to my true home ie in me. I am keeping it simple.

(This is my view and I could be wrong.) We still do not need a "middle men" to take us to Guruji. Its waheguru's kirpa that we need in the first place to enable us to meet Guruji ie (Gurbani which has Guru ji's mat which is also Nirankar). We long for like minded company. Gur ki seva is what Jap ji Sahib tells us ie listening with surt and dhian, obeying Guru ji's command without doubt and putting it in to practical use in our daily lifes. Couple of links below: "ਕਿਸੁ ਹਉ ਸੇਵੀ ਕਿਆ ਜਪੁ ਕਰੀ ਸਤਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਉ ਜਾਇ ॥ kis ho saevee kiaa jap karee sathagur pooshho jaae || Whom shall I serve? What shall I chant? I will go and ask the Guru." .... read the rest on Ang http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=107 siqgur bcn kmwvxy scw eyhu vIcwru ] sathigur bachan kamaavanae sachaa eaehu veechaar || Act according to the Instructions of the True Guru; this is the true philosophy. ibnu swDU sMgiq riqAw mwieAw mohu sBu Cwru ]1] bin saadhhoo sa(n)gath rathiaa maaeiaa mohu sabh shhaar ||1|| Without being attuned to the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, all attachment to Maya is just dust. ||1|| read the rest http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=152 saddhoo or sant sangat etc is you and me who are as you already said "SAT SANGAT KAASI JAANIA JITHA IKO NAAM VIKAHNAI" We are the ones who need to work towards finding our "true home" and the only way to do this is via Guruji (Gurbani) all with Waheguroo's kirpa.

I am far from being a Gurmukh. To me Gurbani (Guru ji) and like minded Gursikhs are my 'Sant'. I dont need to go looking for a human 'Sant'. Why do we need an 'intermediary'?