thedoc

I think thedoc and akular have made some valid suggestions. Rather than keep on re-creating the confrontational scenes having a presence in these specific Gurughars could prove a stronger advantage. Even attending the diwans in large numbers and providing your time to carry out sewa within those Gurughars not only increases the moral of the genuine members of that sangat but inadvertently the presence can pose a threat to the manmat management committee. I have always mentioned my opinions on protesting and from my personal experiences of being involved in some of the protests (and seeing the aftermath of some of the more recent events), I still feel that the we (the UK Sikh youth) do not have the right frame of mind to passively protest without a confrontation coming about. We are either too easily manipulated by the political elders or someone will hijack the issue for their personal gain . I concur 100%. Go to Ramgarhia Slough and start to turn the thumbscrews slowly......you will get results.....Waheguru makes everything happen.....canvas support from the genuine sangat members (there are always devoted sangat members in every gurdwara), do kirtan, vichar, seva in the langar hall. This is the only way that longterm success can be achieved. A reactionary approach will yield bad crop......an evolutionary seed will be strong and powerful....as gurbaani says.....'sahaj pukkay so mitha' . Many of the youth are 'hot blooded'-I apologise if I have offended anyone. i too was like this once and realised the way of Sikhi is pyaar and vichhar.....I realised this when it dawned upon me that I was a very very imperfect human being. How could I change others if i couldn't change myself.....the battle continues.

Derby Ramgarhia doesn't have a party hall. in fact this one is pretty good. It has Skhi to the max on a screen, simran, excellent kirtanees who do good prachar, including encouraging the sangat to receive amrit (although they do not do sanchars themselves), a regular sangat in weekdays in the morning divan (but very quiet in the evening) and a sangat that is from all 'jaat paats' including many of the regular, devoted sevedaars. However, there is still room for much more improvement........

hmm. there will come a point where this chaudar pauna manmat committees will fizal out becuz their kids wont be interested about running the gurughars. caste run gurdwaras will be the most effected as they will struggle to fill their quotas up. so that leaves either the shut down of the guru ghars or a take over by genuine sewadars..but in the meantime we are lumbered with drinking dens like the jassa singh ramgharia halls n the sikh centres, the fruits of which are our newly formed over alcohol indulging naching taping community. in hyde park on sunday there will be several thousand people remembering the shaeeds of the panth. question why those shaeedia took place, becuz it wernt about annual marches and protest, it was about abuse of sikh maryada-principles. those panthic politicans, with their fat bellies can shout naray of khalistan or anti india crap, but they aint got any pyar for sikhi. if they did then they would be shouting naray about the abuse of sikh marayada by our own gurdwara committeess...its our own community ruining the kaum, not no musalmaan or hindu. its leamington, leeds, slough, birmingham and idiots who run those specific gurughars who are the real threats. so in conclusion, there is little that diplomatic reasoning can achieve when arguing against manmat...these committees are beyond reasoning, we have been here too many times now....the only way to stop this crap is sabotage or a united front against the halls, not just 40 youths but thousands of sikhs, including the jathebhandi, the politcal groups, the student groups, everyone. just like sacha sauda became the biggest issue so should the moral abuse by the committees of the ramgharia gurdwaras, leamington gurdwaras and all them other places where people get drunk in the name of Guru Nanak! Agreed....if done by gursikhi prachaar.....drops of water will coalesce and fill the container and bear fruit. If done aggresseively.....defensive aggression will result....back to square one. Aggressive campaigning may result in major divisions between jats and tarkans, leading to major divisions in all our communities across the country. It is this reason why I believe some youth are hesitant to do something about the problem. There is also the issue of acquiring a 'criminal record' and potentially destroying a young man or woman's livelihood. A solution: book several weeks of a 10-15 kirtan spot or vichaar, during the Sunday divaan and at the end of the kirtan....do prachaar of 'drinking dens' next to gurdwaras. Week after week of constant gurmat bashing will eventually sink into the alcohol picked neurons of the Ramgarhia committee members....bearing fruit. As i have observed.....Ramgarhia gurdwaras will fizzle out because the youth aren't interesed in them anymore. The alternative is for gursikh sevadars to slowly make their presence felt in them and to rejuvinate the gurdwara and turn the drinking dens into sports halls, sikh music schools and giani-ship schools. Then, the icing on the cake will be dropping the 'ramgarhia' title from the gurdwara name. No offence meant.... wjkk wjkf PS if the guy who made the aggressive telephone call to me a few months back, when i posted a long list of observations about Ramgarhia gurdwaras has read this post....don't even think about making a call to me again or crying to the Ramgarhia Council UK about my outspoken views. I informed the police about your phone call and have the capacity to trace any phone calls you make back to you.

Nicely put....let's do an ardaas for the Singh in hospital. wjkk wjkf

This is the Kenya Ramgarhia mindset......let's party , lick our fingers after downing some meat and Mobasa style fish and knock it back with Johnny Walker or Teacher's whisky.........

I've said time and time again.....Ramgarhia gurdwaras need to change their ways, open up the committees to 'all' sikhs and to change the name of the Gurdwara to either 'Guru Ram Das Ji Gurdwara' or just 'Gurdwara Sahib'. When I last suggested this on this forum, with a lenghthy analysis, I got a very threatening phone call, from the likes of the bloke who tried to run into the Singh , handing out leaflets. This is absolutely disgraceful behaviour. Kudos to the SInghs who were doing this type of prachar to stop the evil activity going on at Ramgrahia Slough....my prediction is that Ramgarhia Gurdwaras will cease to exist in a few years time. Quite a lot of Ramgarhia youth are defecting to other Gurdwaras where there is good Sikhi prachar. It is no co-incidence that not a single Ramgarhia Gurdwara holds an amrit sanchar (even though people like to trot off things like 'well Graham St held the first amrit sanchar in Birmingham in 1978') . My argument is-that was in 1978....we now live in 2007. Not a single one holds a Sikhi camp, not a single one leads the Nagar Kirtan at Baisakhi because they can't find enough amritdharis amongst the sangat, not a single one holds Gatka classes, not a single one holds gurbani santhiya classes, not a single one holds gurmat classes....the list goes on and on... Present situation: Vishvakarma pictures and ardas on gurdwara premises, meat and booze halls, tables and chairs in langar halls, mono-caste committees. Bhai Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, Bhai Jodh Singh and Bhai Sukha Singh would weep if they were alive today......

Interesting quotes from the great Cambridge University-educated philosopher Bertrand Russell (author of Principia Mathematica): Bertrand Russell was a great philosopher and free thinker and is said to have given Christianity (same applies to Islam and Judaism) a body blow and exposed its absurdities; but even this great man got stuck when it came to Sikhism! In fact he gave up and said "that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them.” Russell was asked whether this religion was capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has this capability, but the Sikhs have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it." What Bertrand was most impressed with was that Sikhism does not have a doctrine of evangelism that it does not go out to try to subvert and convert. In some ways he thought that Sikhs should go out and propagate their great faith. Shame that we as Sikhs can't see our spirituality as Russell did. We have a lot of soul searching to do......Waheguru kirpa karay.

Sikhi has it's roots in Punjab and therefore the culture of Punjab has influenced the content of langar-this is obvious. Langar has some good things such as proteins from the pulses, calcium from the yoghurt, iron from spinach and vitamins and minerals from salad . However, the fat content is a problem, for adults. Ghee or butter are full of saturated fats. In small amounts, these are fine, but your fats should be mono or polyunsaturated. Olive oil and sunflower oil are excellent for cooking. We have to adapt. The Guru's have taught us to look after our bodies. Sheikh Baba Fareed Ji says is his sloks 'jinay kadhee chopree, ghanay saingay dukh', meaning those who eat roti covered in butter will suffer in pain. Clearly what Fareed Jee was referring to was the affect of saturated fat on the coronary circulation of the heart, leading to ischaemic heart disease and heart failure. The latter are very common amongst elderly Sikh men and women. Most of the elderly folk will have a GTN spray in their pockets or bags to carry them through the next angina attack. My personal practice is to eat one roti and just daal and salad (as at home). I get comments from the bibian saying 'leh...too kuj kadha nay', but I just ignore them. One way to make the langar healthier is to introduce vegetarian Europian style dishes, such as rice and millet based pasta, with sauces etc. The American Sikhs have a non-Punjabi langar all the time.... Drizzling some Omega 3, 6 and 9 oils (such as Udo's vegetarian oil) is superb for the coronary arteries longterm. Excercise is manadatory. As far as parshaad is concerned...this should be left untouched. maryada is maryada....just ask for a very small amount form the degh sevadar....the idea of parshad is to simply sweeten the mouth, as Waheguru's words are sweet, and not to fur up the coronary arteries, by consuming a large amounts. Sadly, some of the degh sevedars are full of hankaar and will get angry if you ask for a small amount. Somehow they are physically incapable of distributing very small amounts. We have to unlearn what we have learned.

WJKK WJKF By what method(s) can the Sikhs unite as one voice? Can we ever unite?

You've probably got a case of tractional alopecia. Tie your joora looser and your hair should return (unless you have male pattern baldness at the same time). Oil application is all pakhand-there is no solid scientific literature to back up oil causing hair regeneration. The only function of oil is to lubricate the passage of the kanga through the kesh, preventing hair being traumatically pulled out from the scalp. If you find oil useful-by all means continue using it. As a general tip, give yourself a scalp massage in the morning and in the evening, with your fingertips. making sure that all areas of the scalp are covered. Don't rub the scalp. Massage eases tension in the scalp muscles and will enhance the circulation of blood to the smaller scalp vessels. Another trick is to gently tap a comb or brush (bristle and tooth end) onto the scalp. This will also enahnce circulation. You may also wish to invert (but be carful if you have health problems such as heart problems, blood pressure and glaucoma etc). Inversion brings blood to the scalp vessels. You can start off by flopping your head over the bed for 30 seconds initially, slowly extending to a max of 3 minutes per day. Shoulder stands are excellent, but again be very careful if you have not done them before. The best bet is an inverter that you can buy from various sports outlets. Inversion does lead to hair regeneration. Eat a balanced diet with a good B vitamin source. If you are exhibiting male pattern baldness, a tablet called Propecia ( which is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor) may be an option-see your GP. Take regular exercise and do your naam simran. The latter will relax you immensely. Say a sincere ardas from the core of your heart for strength of kesh, to Akal Purakh Jee. He will answer your prayer. Take care.

Question-my sarbloh kara has caused hairloss on the back of my wrist and lower arm due to constant chaffing / rubbing. Is this classified as a bujjar kerehat ? wjkk wjkf

hhhmmmm this isn't funny. Many people want to clean up the 'Ramgarhia' hall fiasco and are very serious about it.....comments like yours are a very low form of wit. i suggest you read Sikh History to find out what a great general JSR was and how he , with th rest of the great Sardars of that era saved Sikhi from extinction. WJKK WJKF sorry, everytime i think of jassa singh ramgharia i think of the dance halls where the drinking dens are. cant help it if the modern ramgharia misl sardars are all boozers now! i aint doubting jassa singh ramgharias was a great gursikh, but does anyone care? if they did then they wouldnt allow his great name to be abused! You make a valid point....many sardars are boozers but this does not solely apply to those who attend Ramgarhia booze and meat 'dens'. Every Punjabi village and Brirtish town has at at least one pub owned by a Sikh, for Sikhs !!

hhhmmmm this isn't funny. Many people want to clean up the 'Ramgarhia' hall fiasco and are very serious about it.....comments like yours are a very low form of wit. i suggest you read Sikh History to find out what a great general JSR was and how he , with th rest of the great Sardars of that era saved Sikhi from extinction. WJKK WJKF

Forgot to add that Baba Jassa Singh Ramgarhia also built a small shrine to Baba Deep Singh along the parkarma of Darbar Sahib that was later consolidated by Akali Phula Singh. This is the place that we pay our respects to when we go to Darbar Sahib.

Dear Cyber Sangat Jee WJKK WJKF Just to remind you all that it was the birthday of great Khalsa Fauji, Sant-Sipahi Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgarhia yesterday. The picture of the ' article of the month' is of Jassa Singh Ramgarhia, conquering the Red Fort in Delhi. after which the Nishaan Sahib was hoisted in the Red Fort for the first time in Sikh History. He help build numerous historical gurdwaras, such as Tarn Taran Sahib, Baba Atal Tower, Bhagat Namdev Gurdwara and the Bungas in Amritsar and Hazoor Sahib. He was a member of the Taruna Dal. His Khalsa contemporaries included greats like Baba Deep Singh and Sardar Jassa Singh Aluwalia. He freed 1000s of kidnapped women from the evil clutches of the Moguls and was a member of those small band of Sikhs who survived on a diet of leaves in the forests, when the Sikhs were being hunted down, almost to the point of extinction. He got the name Ramgarhia, after the great battle of fort 'Ram Rauni'. 'Ram' is derived from 'Guru Ram Das Jee' and Garh means 'fort'. So the term Ramgarhia means 'the fort of Guru Ram Daas Jee'. The Ramgarhia Bungas (the 2 tall towers next to Harimandir Sahib) were built by the Misl, to function as watchtowers, so that any Moghul onslaught could be anticipated and repulsed. WJKK WJKF