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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Why didn't the "Low-Caste" people in India become Sikh, especially with the values of equality and many other things within the path of Gurmat that wasn't in Hinduism or Islam, (especially with the whole superiority complex in both religions, with Indian Muslims considered less than Arab Muslims and Low-Caste Hindus being considered lower caste than Brahman Hindus?) What I'm trying to understand is why these people would just stay being treated like dogs and animals rather than accept Gurmat, (which has complete equality). There were clearly some who did become Sikhs though like the Vanjarias, and others; but there are still more low-caste Hindus than there are Brahmans. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Part II of Tisarpanth's Misconceptions Series. Here two main misconceptions are answered: 1.) Sikhi survived due to the sole efforts of the Jats and, 2.) Sikhi was a reaction against contemporary economics. To quote a few portions: 'Sikh history, and tradition, substantiates that no lapse was ever tolerated from the faith’s ideology. The names of Baba Atal Rai and Baba Ram Rai are only some of the many examples which depict the penalties imposed upon those who, for one reason or another, deviated from established norms. The former resurrected a victim of snakebite and was so sternly reprimanded by his father, the sixth Guru, that he discarded his mortal frame whilst the latter intentionally changed a line of Gurbani and was excommunicated by his own father, the seventh Guru. Summarily we can easily conclude then that it is impossible to assert that the sixth Guru who was more than satisfied to witness his own son’s demise, but could not tolerate any deviation from the faith’s ideology would concede to any demands made by the Jats.' 'Non-Sikh records mention the respect with which the Sikhs treated women, even extending courtesy and safety to those who were of their sworn foes. (19) If compared with Jat practices, historic and present, than these contrast starkly as the Jat objectification of women is a well known fact. Secondly, the Sikh ability to unite in face of a common threat historically is a well-established fact. This principle emerged out of two factors namely a channeling of all energies towards achieving a singular goal, and a singular interpretation of the faith. The Jats were and still are avid worshipers of Jatheras or shrines dedicated to some Sisyphean ancestor(s). (20) With each locality, tribe, clan, village espousing a different ancestor any ideological unity and singular channeling of energy is impossible. The establishment of Bharatpur can only be called a miracle as the Jat unity forged for it’s establishment soon disintegrated afterwards.' https://tisarpanthdotcom.wordpress.com/2016/04/24/misconceptions-ii/

Heaps of threads on our forum have been ruined by casteist, backward posters who bring in caste in topics. High time they should be banned to give a strong message that SikhSangat has zero tolerance for such rogues who despite knowing Sikhi is against caste system always talk about castes.

Its a huge problem in punjab, but I don't see any organizatoins speaking about or tackling issue

Dear Fellow Members, I want to discuss the growing matter of casteism in Sikhism, As far as I am aware when our Guru ji created/started panth khalsa. He abolished all the evil roots of casteism in Sikh culture and he created a guideline that a sikh should be identified and known as a sikh . And there should be no place of caste system in SIkh culture. But look at us today, we are so lost in casteism itself that we are known as Jat sikhs or Khatri sikhs or ramgharia and so on (No offense to anyone) Even though we have dedicated gurudwaras to the different community here. I dont mean to harm anyone emotions here. Please pardon me if I have. But what do you all think as a sikh. Is it correct to give uprise to casteism itself in our culture which guru ji abolished. Please give me your views. And Another thing is that this issue is being promoted in regards to the marriages as well. I am a Sikh for all I know, But where ever I or my parents speak about the matrimony. The first question which is being asked is what caste do you belong to. I mean how does it matters ? If I am a jat or khatri or ramgharia, we all are sikhs and thats what should be imp. But for about 80% it matters a lot. I dont know what difference does it makes but Jatts only wanna marry in their same caste and so as ramgharias. How does it matters that if a person is a wierdo and do all sort of crazy stuff like drugs and do all kind of thngs but while marrying their daughter to him wont be an issue, only bcoz he is of their same caste. And on the other hand there is a guy like me who is educated, decent, religious person but nope, they wont marry their daughter with him only bcoz I do not belong to their caste. I have had enough of this caste system. And then there is another issue which is only because I wear a turban and don't trim my beard, most of the girls wont go for a guy like me bcoz of this reason. Its such a shamefull thing to say that people who are taking care of our Gurudwara have started registering for matrimonial alliance and they have put an option where a girl has to opt that does she needs a turbaned sikh or a clean shaven. If the gurudwara will support these actions then who is gonna stand with the gursikhs ? I mean this is the limits where these people can go. What kind of Sikh is a Clean shaven, A clean shaven person is not a sikh. He has lost the main identity of being a sikh. I have seen a lot of people who are going thru these difficulties and because of these things boys are cutting down there kesh and going out of sikhi. Please let me know your views on this. And again please if I have hurted any ones emotions, knowingly or unknowingly. Please accept my apologies.

I was quite shocked last night when I watched a programme called Derby Q & A on Sangat television. There were some really good points made by the panel and some of the speakers at Derby Gurdwara. Then with a couple of minutes to go a guy comes on with a white beard aged about 60 called bhai sucha. He goes on to compare so called lower caste people to toilet water and then says ' do you drink water from the toilet or the tap? why do you drink it from the tap? if they start improving their qualities then people will start liking them!!' I couldn't believe what I was hearing. He ruined all the good points Joga Singh had made before him. It is 2014 for Gods sake and we are still letting guys like this on Gurdwara stages!!! Even the BNP have toned down their language compared to this fascist!! Sangat Tv need to explain who this Singh was speaking on behalf of because he doesn't represent the views of the Gursikhs I have met. Some people have said he was representing AKJ who had a samagam after, whilst others are saying he is a pardhan from Kempston Gurdwara. Either way shame on him for disgracing Sikhi live on tv all over the U.K & Europe! He should apologise on air and explain they are his own views and not that of Sikhs, Gurudwaras, Sangat TV, the AKJ or whoever.

The Punjab Cabinet approved the Backward Class (BC) status for the Jatt Sikhs of the State on 5 March 2014. With this, Jatt Sikhs will be the 70th community to be included in the category. The grant of Backward Class status to the Jatt Sikhs will enable them to get reservation in government jobs. Jatt Sikhs of Punjab had been left out of the Indian Cabinet’s decision because the Punjab government had failed to bring the community in the State Backwards Class list. A few days earlier, the Indian Cabinet decided to include the Jat community in the central list of Other Backward Classes in nine States: Himachal Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Bihar, Gujarat, Uttarakhand, Delhi, Haryana and Rajasthan. The latest move by the Punjab Cabinet will now facilitate a proclamation by the Government of India that Jatt Sikhs are now, nationally, a Backward Class.

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh Sangat ij I want to bring to your attention the ever growing problem of the caste system not only among punjabi people as a whole but from those who call themselves Amritdhari We are looking for a partner for our relative who comes from an amritdhari family just as we are and we often getting asked our caste and then rejected. I will post a email conversation up that I had recently speaking with a relative of a potential partner. In it the family member says 'we are amritdhari but looking for jatt' I'd like sangats views

CHANDER SUTA DOGRA The National Commission for Scheduled Castes (NCSC) has issued a notice to the Punjab Director General of Police (DGP) to investigate and reply to charges about caste-based segregation in historic gurdwaras of the State. The NCSC notice that comes on a representation by Abroo, a socio-political initiative working for empowerment of the marginalised in Punjab, was also studied by its own Atrocities and Protection of Civil Rights Wing. Abroo had commenced a project, titled ‘Punjab’s Map of Shame’, last year, after it stumbled upon what it calls several “shocking and blatant cases of apartheid happening in well-known gurdwaras” in the State. Sikhism does not recognise caste and to strive for a casteless society is one of the basic tenets of the faith. In its letter to the NCSC, Abroo founder Pukhraj Singh said though the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee (SGPC) acknowledged existence of caste-based gurdwaras in the State, his investigation revealed cases of institutionalised and systemic segregation perpetrated by well-entrenched elements of the Sikh establishment. Calling for an investigation into these transgressions, Mr. Singh demanded that the control of such gurdwaras be handed over to provisional and progressive bodies. This would reinforce the point that gurdwaras were not merely religious bodies but centres of social upheaval; places where the common public can take charge to implement the shared ethos. Citing the Gurdwara Reform Movement of early 20th century, he said, “Spiritually-sanctioned prejudices, in a religion that abhors ritualism, is evidence of deep-rooted subversion of the Sikh philosophy and its spiritual tenets.” Commenting on these findings, SGPC president Avtar Singh Makkar said, “There is no place for caste-based discrimination in Sikhism, and if such a matter comes to our notice, we persuade them to stop it. We also issue appeals from time to time to follow the Sikh tenets.” Kiranjot Kaur, SGPC member and its former general secretary, said: “Though caste issues have always plagued Sikhism and from time to time, the SGPC has been passing resolutions that caste-based discrimination is not compatible with the basic tenets of the faith, many of these gurdwaras are not recognised by the SGPC as authentic sources for the interpretation of Sikh philosophy. Even an apex seminary like the Damdami Taksal discriminates on caste and gender.” Ms. Kaur, however, admitted that though the influence of caste had been ejected from gurdwaras after the Singh Sabha movement of the early 20th century, it has once again reared its head in the religion due to caste-based politics in recent years. Some notable examples documented in the representation to the NCSC include Sur Singh, a 350-year-old Sikh seminary in Taran Taran, where Mazhabi Sikhs (Scheduled Castes) are not only given ‘amrit’ (as part of the Khalsa baptism ceremony) from a separate utensil but are also referred to by the clergy as Chauthey Paurey Wale (people from the fourth step) to justify the discriminatory treatment. Mr. Pukhraj Singh says, “The Sikh seminary is being managed by Baba Dayal Singh, commander of Bidhi Chand Dal, one of the four battalions of the Khalsa army.” The representation further notes that in Gurdwara Raja Ram in Dhotian, Mazhabi Sikhs are barred from performing ‘langar sewa’ because “they look dirty.” The gurudwara is being run by a powerful baba, who is well-connected with the SGPC and who has been instrumental in renovating several crumbling historical Sikh shrines in recent years. It goes on to provide several other examples of caste-based injustices from gurdwaras in Sarhali, Lehra Khana and Joge Wala. Keywords: Punjab gurudwaras, caste-based segregation, National Commission for Scheduled Castes http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/probe-castebased-segregation-in-gurdwaras-panel-tells-punjab-dgp/article5422572.ece?

Sat Shri Akal Sariya nu. I am a sikh and i met a girl(sikh) a month ago and i love her and so does she. we are kinda great match n similar in many aspects. we understand each other so well. Everything was going well and i told her once to tell her mom about me because i did not wanted that she should meet me by lying to her mom n come hiding every time to meet me. Basically i didn't wanted that she looses her mothers faith in her(thats whats most important in a daughter and mothers relationship). So she did tell her mom and first everything was okay and her mom told her after knowing my caste and i am not a PR of Canada that just end it right here with me and no more meeting,talking,texting. I really love her and respect that she cant go against her mother because her mother has gone through a lot in the family just because of her kids, so she doesn't want to take any step which will go against her mother from relatives sides. I respect and understand her decision of obeying her mom but why is this caste system causing problem?? I thought sikhs are either 'Singh' and 'Kaur' and guru nanak dev ji apposed the caste system then why are many sikh family still into this caste thing? She will not see me coz her mom told her to focus on studies for 3 years and its not the right time n moreover i m from different caste. I and she didn't wanted to get married until we both completed our studies and become something in life but just coz of this caste thing she cant see me or hangout with me. She talks to me thou. I told her to tell her mom that i wanted to talk to her so that i could sit and explain her how much i love her daughter and i m not marrying her or crossing my limits with her before marriage. I also wanted to tell her that we are not getting married until we finish our studies and become what we want to but she refused to talk to me. I and her our suffering coz her mom thinks that if her daughter gets married to me then their families respect is finished forever and society and relatives will trouble them and taunt them every time about her daughter marrying a guy of different caste. What the hell is all this? Even in this century people r thinking like this? I understand this might not be the right age but why cant we see each other or hang out? Its hard not the see the girl you love the most. Does anyone can help me in this that how should i take my next step or tell me your opinion?

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we are all aware of the trends in present day society there is one great demon of brahminical origin that is far away form sikh principles but still has crept in sikh societies we commonly are confronted with words like - jatts,ramgharias,bhappas,khatris etc etc... and ego-clashes among them how and from where this castiesm has crept in our society ?? the society which was based on:- "manas ki jaat sabhae eko pehchaanbo" what problems and dillusions it causes in minds of sikhs??? and how should we eradicate it and tackle it in our daily life???

I know sikhs dont believe in the caste system, however can anyone tell me the following surnames what caste they belong to? Moore Virdi Khaira Thanks

Follow up of : http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70298-inn-gareeb-sikhan-kou-deu-paatishaahi/ The Dalit brothers and sisters who recently joined the Khalsa are being denied water for their fields and are being told to either cut their kesh and beard first to get water or forget about it. They are even being threatened by high caste folks to "quit" Sikhi. Once couple was even beaten up.

Taken from Gurmat Bibek forum http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,26527

Well I remember talking to my chachaji a while back about his meeting with the Singh who wrote the book Gandhi : Behind the Mask of Divinity (US army Colonel G.B. Singh). What G.B. Singh told was he came from a family that was very much a Brahmanistic thought. If i'm not mistaken (don't quote me on this) part of his family was Sikh and part was Hindu Brahman and he used to follow Gandhi. To cut a long story short, he understands the caste system structure and he sees how it's still a very powerful tool that makes India 'go'. His claim to bring the Sikh population up again is to do what Sikhs have been doing in the past, to empower and help the needy. In today's terms, just like in history, it's the lowest castes. The Gurus abolished casteism and even fought with the pahari rajas because they Hindu hill rajas felt they needed to enforce casteism. Despite the caste system being formally and practically abolished along with the implementation of complete gender equality by the Guru Sahiban, today we see this backward tradition crept back into the psyche of the Sikhs of surprisingly not only Punjab, but even in Sikhs living abroad. How can we help bring an end to casteism? Help empower the lower castes (Dalits and other lowe casts) in Punjab by giving them necessary supplies which include: food, medicine, educational support and establish places where people can come and listen to REAL Sikh parchar if they want to (parchar of Sach). The SGPC is corrupted in laalach and no one in Punjab really cares to an extent to organize something like this and those that do care aren't in positions where they can empower themselves to bring such a movement. G.B. Singh said if he did this he knows he would be banned from India and sent back to the USA. The reason why this isn't happening is because groups are trying to cause further division and fighting among Sikhs so we can't come to a consensus as one Khalsa Panth and move forward. I was watching a interview by Giani Pinderpal Singh ji and he said the main problem is not that Sikhi is gone in Punjab, but because Sikhs in Punjab don't have a direction and if given one they will take it. He also says that some people only tie white dastar, some only neeli, some only kesri but each flower has it's own traits and we should appreciate it. My interpretation is that we shouldn't become so hard lined in which school of thought we prescribe to when it divides us as a Khalsa Panth. The main problem isn't money, the main problem isn't being able to devote time, the main problem isn't a lack of sewadars and the main problem isn't with the average Sikh. The problem is that we see too many differences and have too much ego to come together and tackle this issue. How do we come together as one Panth and accomplish this task of helping the down trodden people of Punjab. What i think we'll find is, if we can manage to accomplish this task, it will solve many problems that we currently face

WJKK WJKF! The SIKHI EXPLORED team (university students) has just published its 8th article.. This edition is on the life of BHAGAT RAVIDAS JEE and will reveal stories about his life, as told by Sant Maskeen Singh, Sant Waryam Singh and Baba Lakhbir Singh. Who was he? What did he do? Why do Sikhs show him so much respect? The article will answer these questions and use examples from His teachings and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee to tackle 'caste' issues, which are still prevalent in society today (despite the Gurus abolishing it centuries ago!) Please check it out @ www.kclsikhsoc.wordpress.com. Wjkk wjkf Other articles in the first series: 1- Martrydom of Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Jee 2- Sahibzaada Baba Fateh Singh 3- Battle of Chamkaur 4- Saka Sirhind 5- Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee and His Gurbani 6- Complete history of Sri Harmandar Sahib 7-The life and Shaheedi of Sant Baba Deep Singh Jee 8-Bhagat Ravidas Jee Sikhi Explored, Articles by the Sikh Youth