Singh47

I wasn’t there either, but I asked someone who was there. Maybe this friend was looking at girls the wrong way which may have offended some Singh there … sorry just joking… As for Babbar Khalsa. N30 Singh, who cares what non-Sikhs think of our Shaheeds. During puraatan times non-Sikhs like Qazi noor Mahammad refered to Sikhs as ‘dogs’ and others referred to them as rebels and assassins. The British referred to Nihangs of Akali Phula Singh as ‘Fanatic’. Even the Singhs associated with the Ghaddar movment, Babbar Akali movment or the Singhs who were sent to Kala Pani were called ‘terrorists’. But look at how those same Fanatics, terrorists are now immortalized in our history books as patriots and freedom fighters. The same will be true for the Singhs who were Shaheeds during the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s. Right now they are being labeled as terrorists and even fanatics or as you put it ‘kattar panthi’. But Panthic soch (thought) calls them patriots and freedom fighters. Personally I don’t care what a non-Sikh thinks of our Shaheeds. Where were these non-Sikhs when our Darbar Sahib was being attacked in 84 or when high levels of human rights abuses were being done in Punjab? When a few Singhs with Anakh decided to take matters into their own hands all of a sudden these same non-Sikhs call them terrorists and fanatics.

It wasn’t Kulbir Singh and his friends who accused Parmjit Singh Jee of being a GOI agent. It was someone else who attended the presentation that accused him of being a GOI agent. what “dire circumstances” can there be for someone committing a Kurahit? If Sharab can be consumed in so-called “dire circumstances”, then can a Sikh also cut his hair in “dire circumstances”? Furthermore, I don’t understand why puraatan Singhs would want to consume sharab right before battle?

Japman, you're not a child anymore who just simply made a childish mistake. Your mistake is a little more complicated then that as it is quite evident from this entire thread. Before accusing someone, you should atleast have the decency to be courteous enough to make sure your accusations are correct. It's part of growing up. So be a little more responsible.

He accused him of having double id. That is lying, because it is now known, that the other id belonged to his wife.

Japman wrote: agg laakay kendhaa, "meri ki galti?" after lying about another Singh by accusing him of something he didn't do, what do you expect... them to shower you with flowers?

what is a "concuslation"? Chota moo, BaRhi baat. You n30 singh are one of the most biased admins on the net. How many people have you banned from Sikhawareness because they dont agree with your Snatan version of SIkhi? how many messages have you deleted because according to you they are not in accordance with your version of SIkhi? how many threads have you closed because your snatan friends start losing a debate? You should first apply your lecture to yourself before giving this Bhashan to others.

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Really? can you swear on Sant Ishar SIngh Jee that you witnessed this with your own two eyes? because I was there, and saw everything first hand with my own two eyes, and I could swear I did not see you there at all. Like you, I also have Shardha for Sant Ishar Singh Jee, and I could swear on the Sikhiya I have that you were not there to be seen when the conflict happened.

Barinderpal Singh/N30 Singh, did you actually even read this supposed article, or are you saying this article exists because this is what people have told you beleive? Barinderpal Singh/N30 Singh, did you actually witness the fight/conflict first hand, or are you saying this is what happened becuase this is what others have told you to beleive? It seems that you beleive in alot of things people tell you to beleive without actually confirming what really happened. You're so easy to influance. I hope that one day you will take a critical thinking course, because it's quite obvious that you do not know how to think for yourself, but instead need to be told what to think. Sad really.....

JSS/ssk seeing how when I blatantly and falsely generalized and accused the Dodras, you felt very angry. Maybe you might get an idea of how others i.e. Tapoban Jatha might feel when you stoop down to the same level of generalization and accusations. I'm sorry that I had to offend you by bringing in bias against the Dodras, but I had to give you a taste of your own medicine (so to speak) in order let you realize what others might feel when the same is done to them. Various versions of the same stories and distortions are out there. To just pick one side of the story and say this is what happened is nothing short of ignorance. From what I have seen in this thread, everyone(me included) is blinded by our bias and ignorance, all of which comes from Nindya/Chuglee and the fear of the unknown. Best thing is to grow up and act like responsible adults(assuming you are over 18) rather then little children.

Tapoban was not the one which started telling people that Taksal was not created by Guru Jee, I was the one who started telling people that, and I did that on Sikhsangat during it's early days. Just use to search engine to search for that topic and you will find it. You talk about Jatha bashing on other forums, but all I have seen ever since this forum was split recently that all these Dodria people(you included) have taken over this forum and it's you guys who are the ones doing all the Jatha bashing. First it was against AKJ in the Naam Drirh thread, and now it's tapoban and Bhai Kulbir Singh on this thread, and not to mention the bashing of Waheguroo network done last month. Now that's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I have not seen Jathas being bashed on the tapoban site, nor have I ever seen the admin of that site bashing other Jathas. If you have, then please let us all see. But I suspect that this accusation is just as false as the one made by Japman about Kulbir Singh having double ID's. When ignorance gets started it knows no bounds.

By ignorance we mistake, and by mistakes we learn... let's hope some of us learn from our mistakes.

Noonespecial Jee, I have nothing against the Dodrias or their Jatha. If I had a dislike of the Dodrias dont you think I would have replied to the thread about the Dodra Jatha recently which was later on closed? so take it easy... no need to get so excited... JSS, you seem genuinely irritated at something. Sant Ishar Singh Jee Rarawalay does not talk about the 'several methods' as you claim. He explains the technique using swaas and how to do it, from there he explains the advanced stages such as Ajapa Jaap and the concept of the Chakras one will advance into after doing simran out loud with the swaas. It seems like you are confusing the advance stages of spiritual levels described by Sant Ishar Singh Jee as 'several methods' of doing simran. This is the main problem with many of the western born&breds who dont know Punjabi very well, so they hear kathas of Mahapurshas, pretend to understand them and misinterpret them.

ssk wrote: oooohh, that really hurt.... When I said 'Naam Drir, I meant doing Naam Abhiyas using your swaas, like how people like Bhai Randhir Singh Jee, and Sant Attar Singh Mastuanaywalay did it. In fact, I have even heard Sant Ishar Singh Jee Rarawalay describing this technique in one of his Kathas exactly the same way. He described this method as the technique to do Naam Simran. These three men are without a doubt one of the most spiritual Sikh saints of the 20th century. Personally, I'd rather follow thier examples.

JSS, it seems like you either need reading glasses, or have a desperate need to make others look bad. If you had read my post carefully, you would have known that my intent was was not prove/disprove Naam Drir. My sole reason to write on this site was to reply to your baseless argument that none of the so-called "Puraatan" sampradhas do Naam Drir as the a basis for your argument against Naam Drir. To which I replied that two of the the four socalled "Puraatan" sampradhas are not even puraatan to begin with! then we are left with Udasis and Nihangs, and we all know how anti-Gurmat thier beleifs are, such as animal sacrifice, anointment of Nishan Sahibs with blood, making the socalled low caste Mazabi Sikhs take a different Amrit, or women take Kirpan dha Amrit, worshiping Hindu deities the list just goes on and on. I think that the reason you seem to be bitter is because I asked a question about the Dodras. I just simply asked the question because you mentioned them as another group that does not do Naam Drir in your argument against Naam Drir, when on the other hand, I have heard some really whacky stuff about the Dodras from people. To tell you the truth, I have nothing against Dodras... I just asked a question and you seemed to get offended for no reason. Until two years ago, I didn't even know about any group called the Dodras. So there is no need to get offended. Take it easy....

JSS Although, this may be off topic, but is it true that the Dodra Jatha aka "Sadh Sangat" allow Monay men/women and make-up wearing women to do kirtan seva on stage?

It seems you dont go out much, especially to India. I have seen Nihangs in India abusing drugs by getting high on Pheem, DhoDhay and Bhang. I have even seen Nihangs who drink Desi Sharab, one of whom was from my Pend. It seems like western SIkhs have a very romanticized view of the Nihangs as knights in shining armour. Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but that is literally a far cry from reality. I've even had Nihangs coming up to me and asking(more like begging) me for money. In India, the reality is that most people who become Nihangs are young men who dont have any Jameen/Jaidaat or any source of income because they dont wanna work, so they become Nihangs expecting people to automatically give them money. In other words, most of them become beggars. JSS, my post was NOT intended to prove/disprove Naamdrir being puraatan. I replied to your claim that non of the socalled "puraatan" Sampradahs do Naam Drir, to which I replied that not everything those so called "puraatan" Samradahs do is necessarily in accordance to Gurmat. As for the origins of the Nirmalas, well I highly doubt that they are from the times of Dasam Pasha. To begin with, the earliest mention to the Nirmalas is from sources dating to the late 18th century(many,many decades after Dasam Pita left his worldly body). Furthermore, according to the Nirmalas, they were created when Dasam Pita sent five Jat Sikhs to Banaras to learn Sanskrit. Also, why would Dasam Pasha send five "Jats" to Banaras? does this mean that Dasam Pasha acknowledged a Sikhs caste even after they took Amrit? and why would Dasam Pasha send them to Banaras to learn Sanskrit, when the most learned of Pandits in India were the Kashmiri Pandits, who were considered the cream of Brahman society. Same thing with the Seva Panthis. I highly doubt Dasam Pasha would have started a Panth like the seva Panthis who wear Topis(hats) and dont even wear Kasharas. It is simply a matter of one using God given logic to make sense out of things.

Which "Puraatan" sampradhas are you talking about? Other then the Nihangs, Udasis I doubt anyone else has a truthful claim of being 'puraatan'. Most of the sampradhas which claim to be 'puraatan' are in fact quite modern. Even the real puraatan ones like Nihangs and Udasis keep many anti-Gurmat practices. For example, the Nihangs getting high on drugs(Bhang, and in many cases even Pheem and Sharab), not to mention the way they anoint Nishan Sahibs with the blood of sacrificial animals. The Udasis who are also Puraatan, do anti Gurmat stuff like worshiping Krishan, Shiva, and even Moorti Puja of Hindu dieties. Gurmat is strictly against idol worship of any kind. So are these the "Puraatan" sampradhas we should be looking up to? I doubt it. If they dont do Naam Drirh, doesnt mean that Naam Drirh is wrong.

Pooranmashi is Bipran Ki Reet. It is not Gurmat. If it is then please provide one shread of evidence from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee proving any significance to Pooranmashi. As for Sant Attar Singh Jee Mastuanay, well he was a tat Khalsa Singh Sabhiya, which is contrary to what many Santmat/Derawalas follow. Jagjit Singh Jee has said it all as far as why Sant Attar Singh Jee held rainsubhais during full moon, as it was simply a matter of having more light because they did not have lighting systems installed back then. So it simply made sense to hold rainsubhais during full moon. Since when has Nanaksar and Rarasahib become Nirmalas? And which Nirmala Akhara do they belong to?

'Bipran Ki Reet' is what the UK Nang group of websites is all about including their new abomination udasi.org

Typical Punjabi movie. Nothing Dharmic about it.

I don’t think that if Ambedkar converted to Sikhism we would have seen ’60 million’ dalits becoming Sikhs. When Ambedkar decided to become a Buddhist, only a few million (less than 5 million) Dalits converted to Buddhism. So ‘60 million’ is a HUGE exaggeration. As for why he didn't convert to Sikhism, I think you should read Dr. Sangat Singh's 'the sikhs in history'.

So, could I take that as a yes?

Is this a Dodra Smagam?